I like Chief of the Scale in the mainboard especially if your meta is heavy R/W. Against aggro it more like dropping a fat blocker that is easily pumped. Mind you I'm trying to keep this more tempo focused and my testing on MTGO has lead me to believe Hirokazu Warriors is a good build to work with.
I went for Boon of Erebos over Defiant Strike because the regen is much more useful than the cantrip as it is more relevant in keep our guys alive. God's Willing is probably the few things we can get that will guarantee protection from Drown in Sorrow and Bile Blight.
Raiders' Spoils should be ran at 2-3 copies in the main, its huge when you play it at the top of your curve (like a Brutal Hordechief) and you can find yourself refiling your hand many of the times. I think the only drawbacks of this deck is if we overextend with not enough creature cards in our hand. A good point recently made in a SCG Deck Tech was that if you can keep 1 guys on the field after a wipe or removal, your still have tempo.
Curious what you'd want Despise against? Are you running Thoughtseize or is Despise simply a hedge against the Mono Red MU?
I do run 4 copies of Thoughtseize MB. Despise is better than thoughtseize in the RDW MU for sure, but it also isn't bad against abzan aggro/midrange or the control decks that are starting to see more play now. Honestly, I'm not sure what to put in that slot, but it's good enough against multiple decks that it at least warrants consideration. I might try Glare of Heresy instead.
Speaking of mana bases, how is 1 Urborg ever wrong? Is there something I'm missing?
I don't think you need it with two colors unless you're running BB spells in the mainboard and need to fix your mana right away. With other versions that don't run those cards, we don't need to fix our mana on black and would do us a disfavor if we ever face against decks that had it (which happens to be a lot).
The lands run at 8 max tapped so it's very difficult to compare this between Abzan because our probability of hitting our colors is much much higher at 2 colors than 3. That is also another reason not to run Mana Confluence at 4 because you will take unnecessary damage to your own health when by that point, your mana is already fixed. Also the creature curve is much more concentrated around 3+CMC, which means your banking on dropping big threats in the mid-game.
With this archetype I feel you have to make a decision either between running low curve aggro, mid-range, or something in between.
Here's my take on Orzhov Warriors. Might just be lucky draws in playtesting, but I'm routinely getting Mardu Strike Leader and Brutal Hordechief out on curve, with predictable results. This feels kinda like Abzan Aggro to me - it's clearly not a midrange deck, but it goes for bigger creatures than a typical aggro deck. The biggest effect of this divergence is that it completely eschews a t1 play, opting instead for a perfect mana base from a fixing standpoint.
Chiefs - Pretty self-explanatory. You don't run a B/W Warriors deck without efficient 2-drop BW warriors that boost the P/T of all other warriors.
Brawler - This guy is filler/backup play on any given turn. T2 he's a decent enough body that can buy a little time to find Chiefs/Strike Leader. T3 he becomes a 3/3 or 4/2 first striker that again buys time to find the bigger threats. T4 and beyond he's just a solid backup. I really like him because one Chief of the Edge turns him into a trading machine, able to go toe-to-toe with Courser of Kruphix and come out on top. 2 Chiefs makes him capable of downing a Siege Rhino and walking away unscathed. Etc. He's not integral to the game plan, so if we need to cut something from this list then he's on the table, but I think he rounds out the 2-drop beater spot pretty well.
Strike Leader - Also self-explanatory, 3/2 Warrior for 3 that pumps out more Warriors, all getting boosted by Chiefs, Heliod and Obelisk for mondo damage.
Athreos - He's a last-second inclusion and prime cut material for improving this deck. His role is pretty obvious, and it's not hard to make him a creature, but it's not clear whether his ability actually provides that much. Theoretically most of your deaths here should be the creature tokens instead of the actual creatures, especially once Athreos comes out and your opponent plays around it. I really like the choice that's supposed to be forced on the opponent, but it's an open question as to whether your opponent will actually have to make that choice much.
Downfall - Self-explanatory.
Heliod - Constant +1/+1 and circumstantial spot removal for 3 mana? Sign me up.
Hordechief - This guy is filthy. Our stat boosters quickly make him into a huge body for 4 cmc, and his lifeswing potential with tokens is through the roof. The fact that multiple versions of him can be on the field at once puts him over the top.
Sorin - Even more lifegain.
The Roc - Not a Warrior, but it brings solid evasion and obscene lifegain potential with all the tokens being pumped out. Good enough to be included on policy if it fits into our mana base, and it does.
Obelisk - Self-explanatory. Strike Leader tokens make great Convoke bait.
Thoughts on how to change this up? There's room to pull several cards out of here for other stuff, and I haven't given any real thought to a sideboard yet.
With 16 lands that come in tapped there's no way this works efficiently. I have found that since we run two colors and most of our cards (aside from BB/WW cards) cost xW or xB, running 4 Caves + 4 Temple/Barrens + Plains/Swamp is the best. You will barely miss your lands, and you will be able to cast something each turn without having a tapped land in play. Mana Confluence is fine at 1-2 copies but I find myself not needing it and taking the extra damage for no reason.
I've been testing with a Hirokazu build with the smallest tweaks of -1 Chief of the Scale and -1 Raiders' Spoils so I could play the more immediately powerful Brutal Hordechief, and I've been getting very good results with it. Is there a reason why the black weenie build is more favored by us right now? I mean yeah it's faster but we are still out-gassed by many of the premier aggro decks of the format like Mono Red and R/W aggro. It's also worse imo against token strategies which are an fnm favorite, at least at my lgs.
Everyone just wants Mogis's Marauder to work including myself, although I really like Hirokazu's build and am still testing it.
I actually like your inclusion of Brutal Hordechief in place of those two cards that I will do the same.
That makes a lot more sense, reading is tech I guess.
On that note, while Banishing Light is indeed a good card, I'd question its inclusion over effects such as Presence/God's Willing.
I would think the card is overcosted and too slow and frankly find the omission of Valorous Stance surprising to say the least.
Thoughts?
I can see where Utter End would fit in the sideboard but if you think Banishing Light is too slow I would like to remind you we have plenty of evasion and abilities like Intimidate, First Strike, and Prowess as wells as ours Lords +1/0 effect to push us through the first 3 turns. We bring in Banishing Light when we run into a planeswalker, an opponents own Banishing or Chained to the Rocks, and even on enchantments in ascendancy combos. Quite frankly there is a lot of use.
However, heeding some of your advice and some from the user below, I will try the following changes:
Boardwipes have been nothing but awesome: they are the only thing I side in, unless there is a God, Banishing Light or Superfriends: then it's Utter End: I'm upping it to 2 Crux main and 4 End Hostilities in the sideboard. I have been happy with the increase from 3 to 4 Sorin: people love to counter/burn/remove him, and he doesn't care about boardwipe. I played a hand with 3 against UB Control and I might have won had I the wherewithal to just go Ultimate: Pearl Lake Ancient is annoying. I stopped using Banishing Light after a few bad encounters with Stormbreath Dragon. I was worried about Battle Brawler but I've had no problems keeping a white permanent out.
I just think your curve is just way too high to be efficiently doing enough damage in the early phases. Running 4 Sorin exposes you to the risk of drawing multiples and missing your creature drops before you cast him and I've experience that before. Crux just sounds like a bad idea because you're technically destroying your own creatures unless you're calling dragons. The concept is beyond me so I won't comment unless I try it myself.
However, you do make an extremely strong point concerning Stormbreath Dragon that I've completely overlooked. Enough that I've placed Hero's Downfall in the sideboard. I feel Valorous Stance has helped balance the curve a lot more and Downfall can come in versus a lot of relevant match-ups game two.
2 Wild Nacatl
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
3 Woolly Thoctar
2 Ogre Battledriver
2 Arbor Colossus
1 Baneslayer Angel
3 Garruk's Packleader
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Inferno Titan
1 Soul of Zendikar
3 Pelakka Wurm
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Genesis Hydra
4 Cultivate
3 Ground Assault
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Banefire
1 Reprisal
Land (24)
2 Boros Guildgate
3 Gruul Guildgate
3 Jungle Shrine
3 Selesnya Guildgate
5 Forest
4 Mountain
4 Plains
0 cards
3 Hellspark Elemental
3 Young Pyromancer
3 Kiln Fiend
3 Guttersnipe
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Shock
4 Vapor Snag
3 Artful Dodge
2 Quicken
3 Skullcrack
4 Think Twice
2 Banefire
10 Island
9 Mountain
4 Izzet Guildgate
I went for Boon of Erebos over Defiant Strike because the regen is much more useful than the cantrip as it is more relevant in keep our guys alive. God's Willing is probably the few things we can get that will guarantee protection from Drown in Sorrow and Bile Blight.
Raiders' Spoils should be ran at 2-3 copies in the main, its huge when you play it at the top of your curve (like a Brutal Hordechief) and you can find yourself refiling your hand many of the times. I think the only drawbacks of this deck is if we overextend with not enough creature cards in our hand. A good point recently made in a SCG Deck Tech was that if you can keep 1 guys on the field after a wipe or removal, your still have tempo.
I may cut a Boon and a Spoil for some Banishing Light to have a solution for Chained to the Rocks or another BL.
4 Battle Brawler
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Chief of the Scale
4 Seeker of the Way
2 Mardu Strike Leader
2 Mardu Woe-Reaper
2 Brutal Hordechief
Enchantment (4)
3 Raiders' Spoils
1 Spear of Heliod
2 Return to the Ranks
Instant (8)
4 Ajani's Presence
4 Boon of Erebos
Land (24)
8 Plains
8 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Temple of Silence
3 Valorous Stance
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Banishing Light
3 Thoughtseize
3 Gods Willing
2 Bile Blight
4 Battle Brawler
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Mardu Strike Leader
3 Wingmate Roc
3 Brutal Hordechief
2 Mardu Woe-Reaper
1 Athreos, God of Passage
Instant (4)
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Bile Blight
2 Thoughtseize
Enchantment (3)
2 Banishing Light
1 Citadel Siege
Planeswalker (2)
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land (24)
7 Plains
7 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Temple of Silence
1 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Erase
2 Utter End
2 Bile Blight
2 Thoughtseize
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Valorous Stance
2 Chief of the Scale
Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Brutal Hordechief, and Raiders' Spoils all give us much more value over time.
3 Mardu Woe-Reaper
3 Chief of the Scale
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Battle Brawler
2 Mardu Strike Leader
2 Brutal Hordechief
Instant (8)
4 Ajani's Presence
4 Defiant Strike
2 Return to the Ranks
Enchantment (3)
3 Raiders' Spoils
Artifact (1)
1 Spear of Heliod
Land (24)
9 Plains
7 Swamps
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Temple of Silence
3 Valorous Stance
3 Banishing Light
3 Thoughtseize
2 Gods Willing
2 Bile Blight
1 Utter End
1 Erase
The original ran no Brutal Hordechief, 2 Mardu Woe-Reaper, 4 Raiders' Spoils, a Dictate of Heliod, and Scoured Barrens instead of the Scry lands.
1st in 休日スタンダード20時の部 - 2015-01-31Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
3 Wingmate Roc
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Mardu Strike Leader
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Battle Brawler
3 Brutal Hordechief
3 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Athreos, God of Passage
Artifact (1)
1 Spear of Heliod
4 Hero's Downfall
Enchantment (2)
2 Citadel Siege
Planeswalker (3)
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land (24)
8 Plains
6 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Temple of Silence
1 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Banishing Light
4 Bile Blight
3 Utter End
2 Valorous Stance
2 Glare of Heresy
2 Stain the Mind
The lands run at 8 max tapped so it's very difficult to compare this between Abzan because our probability of hitting our colors is much much higher at 2 colors than 3. That is also another reason not to run Mana Confluence at 4 because you will take unnecessary damage to your own health when by that point, your mana is already fixed. Also the creature curve is much more concentrated around 3+CMC, which means your banking on dropping big threats in the mid-game.
With this archetype I feel you have to make a decision either between running low curve aggro, mid-range, or something in between.
Sideboard is updated too, I still am open to suggestions on it. Also thoughts on Temple of Silence versus Scoured Barrens in this build?
3 Mardu Woe-Reaper
3 Chief of the Scale
4 Chief of the Edge
4 Seeker of the Way
4 Battle Brawler
2 Mardu Strike Leader
2 Brutal Hordechief
Instant (8)
4 Ajani's Presence
4 Defiant Strike
2 Return to the Ranks
Enchantment (3)
3 Raiders' Spoils
Artifact (1)
1 Spear of Heliod
Land (24)
9 Plains
7 Swamps
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Temple of Silence
3 Valorous Stance
3 Banishing Light
3 Thoughtseize
2 Gods Willing
2 Bile Blight
1 Utter End
1 Erase
I actually like your inclusion of Brutal Hordechief in place of those two cards that I will do the same.
Also something to look into: Citadel Siege
However, heeding some of your advice and some from the user below, I will try the following changes:
3 Valorous Stance
2 Banishing Light
2 Bile Blight
1 Ulcerate
3 Chief of the Edge
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Thoughtseize
3 Gods Willing
2 Bile Blight
1 Utter End
I just think your curve is just way too high to be efficiently doing enough damage in the early phases. Running 4 Sorin exposes you to the risk of drawing multiples and missing your creature drops before you cast him and I've experience that before. Crux just sounds like a bad idea because you're technically destroying your own creatures unless you're calling dragons. The concept is beyond me so I won't comment unless I try it myself.
However, you do make an extremely strong point concerning Stormbreath Dragon that I've completely overlooked. Enough that I've placed Hero's Downfall in the sideboard. I feel Valorous Stance has helped balance the curve a lot more and Downfall can come in versus a lot of relevant match-ups game two.