I really like this list. This deck looks kinda ridiculous and fun. When I've been able to play Standard the last few months, I've been playing a Jund Midrange/Control list focusing on From Beyond as the win-con (and tutoring up an Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger as necessary). This list feels somewhat similar to it in a few ways from an immediate glance. What I'm interpreting here is a controlling deck which wins through slow, inevitable grinding of value-cards. Sin Prodder, Pyromancer's Goggles, and the morph grind of Den Protector, Deathmist Raptor, and Kolaghan's Command are all disgusting value engines when the game goes on long enough.
That being said, what do you envision as the win-state of this deck? One of the problems which I had with my own Jund brew (and which is one of the ways in which I see similarities) is that it was very good at grinding pieces of value, but it didn't necessarily have a particular goal or intended path to victory. One of the things I might recommend would be Fall of the Titans main-deck, to use Goggles for a blast to the dome after incidental damage gets the opponent low enough. The R/G Goggles Ramp deck that made Top 8 in the Pro Tour might be an interesting reference to look at, even if its plan isn't the same as your own.
A few other comments, in no particular order of importance or merit:
Is Drownyard Temple the best fit in a three-color deck? The interaction with Magmatic Insight is huge (and sort-of a built-in ramp), but when you're looking for color quality over raw quantity of mana, it may not be for the best.
I think you should probably increase the number of lands in the deck. From my (subjective) experience, 23 lands isn't really enough for a deck planning to grind the slow game. With Goggles at 5 CMC, you're looking to guarantee at least 5 land per game, if not more? Usually with this type of deck, I'd be looking at 24 - 26 land, personally.
What all is the purpose of Oath of Nissa? A turn one card filter which makes Chandra, Flamecaller easier to cast isn't bad by any means, but if that's all it's doing, I'm not sure it's the best fit in the deck. I'd consider adding in other planeswalkers such as Ob Nixilis Reignited to generate the most value from the card.
I really like Sylvan Advocate in this type of deck, and I think more copies could be useful. You don't really seem to have much in the way of turn two plays, and many of your lands can ETB untapped. A 2/3 early can block some of the smaller Humans or other aggro creatures effectively, and swing back in due to vigilance to get some free damage, and then as a 4/5 it can be a game-winning threat all on its own.
Anyway, just some general comments and thoughts. I think I like where this deck is going and the general style of "Dudes, Goggles, blow up yo' stuff". Hope I was helpful!
I feel that in my version of the deck, ensoul is less 'all-in' as the goal is to drop it on a thopter token or a hangarback so the card disadvantage is minimal if it dies. A potential attacking 5/5 flier on turn 2 or 3 can sometimes just win the game by itself.
I agree on this point; I'd compare Ensoul Artifact in these decks as more similar to Shrapnel Blast than Rancor - if you get more than one hit, that's just upside. Also, when topdecking, usually have some sort of artifact to Ensoul up, whether an errant Ghostfire Blade or a Darksteel Citadel. Topdecking Ensoul hasn't ever really been a serious problem when I've been tinkering with variants of this deck.
I still worry a bit that Ramroller will be insufficient, but it's more a gut reaction than anything else. I think it really is probably better than Juggernaut.
It's good to hear that Chief Engineer is showing some success in these builds. I think it could be worth bringing back a few of the old big beaters like Scuttling Doom Engine and Soul of New Phyrexia if we'll be able to convoke them out more quickly.
I really like Shadowlink's above list. I still find myself leaning towards going further into R, but I'd love to hear how that list goes in testing v. decks in the current meta.
Disdainful Stroke sees main deck plays in a number of competitive main decks, including Brad Nelson's (i.e. the best standard player in the world) Bant Megamorph deck that he played this last weekend. If your meta is flooded with small red aggro decks then sure, take it out, but Abzan and GR devotion are really the most predominant decks in the current meta and Disdainful Stroke does a huge amount of work there while Clash of Wills is almost always going to be terrible against GR devotion because they can produce almost infinite mana.
Apart from the fact that appeal to authority is irrelevant, if the Pro/semi-Pro meta is as you describe, that does attest to the strength of Disdainful Stroke over Clash of Wills. In most of the events I've played (which consists of stuff like PPTQs and IQs, so not anything too large), Disdainful Stroke makes a great SB card, but would be dead or mostly dead in 20% or more of matchups.
More importantly, I think the discussion between whether Disdainful Stroke or Clash of Wills is better MD (if either) is very indicative of a shift in deck conception; as a holdover from the previous group of people working on UR Ensoul, in my mind Standard Affinity is still largely a tempo deck. As such, Clash of Wills is a great card for the deck, since it lets us counter basically anything which costs the opponent's entire turn for 2 mana. However, hard-counters are better for the long game, which it seems like new decks utilizing Thopter Spy Network will be very well set up for attempting to grind out the game while just drawing cards and making a Thopter every turn.
Edit3: Frost Walker doesn't perform as well as I'd like, but it could be because I tested against a lot of tokens and elves. Replaced with Renowned Weaponsmith for some acceleration and upped the number of Thopter Engineer. Day's Undoing replaced Artificer's Epiphany; this is a tap-out style aggro deck so the instant speed, I found, was less exciting. So far I'm very impressed by Thopter Spy Network, often generating cards the turn it comes down. I wonder if it's correct to run Springleaf Drum instead of Weaponsmith, but I like that the creature can offer blocks. On the fence with Hangarback Walker but with the mana dork maybe it could be playable.
Let me know how Ramroller goes. It was a card that I passed over initially, but I suppose it could work well. In my experience, Juggernaut doesn't work out well, since it's rather squishy in comparison to mana cost. I'd rather Ensoul Artifact a Thopter token for a 5-damage beater.
Glad to see this thread is back! The thing is, while I'm a huge fan of the UR Thopter theme they put in this set, I'm not sure how much we can use it to our advantage. I know that sounds crazy, but to me it seems like the thopter theme kind of all goes together and doesn't play well with some of the other strategies, so it's kind of all-or-nothing. And I'm just not convinced that loading up on thopters will make a good enough deck. Wizards generally doesn't put fully-functional, standard-worthy themes into a single set, and it seems like the few lists so far are changing over almost completely to Origins cards.
I'm intrigued whether Pia and Kiran can make Ugin's Nexus viable. And I'm just really interested in general what the best direction is to take this deck with so many new potential cards. I really don't have a good sense of that yet.
Personally, I think the cards synergize somewhat well. Origins has the Thopter deck, and M15 has a lot of "artifacts matter" cards which can slot into it to up the power level. Alone, I'm not convinced that the Thopter deck will be strong enough, but I think with some key role players like Ensoul Artifact and Shrapnel Blast, the deck definitely has a chance to do some major damage. Also, I seriously wanna try out Ugin's Nexus now. I doubt that combo will be competitive (unless we're using Chief Engineer to ramp/convoke the Nexus out), but it does seem hilariously janky and fun.
I'm undecided on Reclusive Artificer yet, pending on finding a few hours to proxy and test. It depends on how fast we can dump out artifacts. I suspect that she's a bad T4 play, but a good T5 or T6 play, killing a creature and then starting to add to the horde of attackers. This is more a gut reaction than anything else, though - it definitely reads a bit like just a Limited-synergy card.
Is Disdainful Stroke really worth a MD slot? It seems to me like a meta call at best, and with the current popularity of little red decks, it seems to me that Disdainful Stroke is just likely to be a dead card in many matchups. I'd suggest Clash of Wills instead, maybe?
On the status of Ensoul Artifact, I guess I see no reason to avoid using it (although we probably have no need to focus on ensouling a Darksteel Citadel anymore); it just seems to make one of our Thopter tokens a bignasty instead of a 1/1 pre-pumps. I might just be too attached to the old deck, though; it had never occurred to me to cut Ensoul Artifact when I was tinkering with the above decklist.
SO. We've got some new toys with this deck. Time to start theorycrafting and proxy-testing, I think. Hope to see some interesting ideas come up, since I think there's a nice amount of design space available for the deck at the moment.
Notable New Toys:
Thopter Spy Network: This seems really strong, just continually plopping out 1/1 flying Thopters for us, and then giving us some card draw. I like this as a notable upgrade over Military Intelligence, and with Darksteel Citadel available and inevitable in our lands we can rely on it somewhat as an engine. I worry that we'll be caught in the crossfire of enchantment hate if Abzan Constellation becomes popular once again. If not, though, the main cards to worry about are Dromoka's Command and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon for enchantment removal, as far as I can remember.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: It makes us 2 more Thopter tokens, and lets us burn up our artifacts for removal or face-burn. I like it. Use of the ability is a bit mana-intensive, and it's a Legendary, so I'm not sure how many copies I'd want in a deck, but I smell potential. Also burning face.
Bonded Construct: Finally, an upgrade from Keeper of the Lens as a 1-drop artifact creature! ... yeah, after a bit more consideration of it, it seems a touch lackluster. Combos worse with Ensoul Artifact and Springleaf Drum than Ornithopter, can't attack T2 unless we're running Monastery Swiftspear, and even then... It just doesn't seem like the best option, to me.
Chief of the Foundry: NOW we're talking! Going wide looks nice and viable. Make a bunch of tokens, use Chief Engineer to convoke out some nastiness, or this, or really just dump our hand, and mash face with 2/2 flying Thopters.
Day's Undoing: Okay, I know this isn't really "our" toy, but something I've always struggled with in this deck was drawing into a way to close out the game after I'd dumped my hand and mashed a bit of face. I'm not sure if this is better than Dig Through Time or not, but the two seem at the least comparable - see 7 cards, but one you only get 2, the other you get all 7, but is sorcery speed instead of instant.
Exquisite Firecraft: Again, not specifically "our" card, but I think it can fit with us. If we're on the go-wide plan instead of the rush-face and then burn plan, Stoke the Flames is probably better.
Clash of Wills: Good counterspells are always worth considering... But considering this is mostly strong early-game, I'm a bit hesitant.
Ghirapur Aether Grid: This could lead to some great finalized burn-finish, but I think it's probably just too slow. Maybe if we already have a pile of artifacts? I'm undecided, but it seems to have potential.
Thopter Engineer: Eh, 2R for a 1/3 and a 1/1 flying Thopter... Oh, what's that? Haste buff? Huh... I'll definitely need to test this a bit, but hasty, pumped tokens seems like it might be powerful.
Whirler Rogue: The parallel to Pia and Kiran Nalaar seems inevitable to me at four mana for a 2/2 and two 1/1 flyers. Upside is that it isn't Legendary. Downside is that the ability seems significantly worse, to me, since at present I don't see granting unblockable to be too useful for us.
Ghirapur Gearcrafter: Similar to Thopter Engineer, but with less upside, in my opinion. Slightly more aggressive body doesn't make it overall worth a card slot, in my estimation.
Reclusive Artificer: I... Don't know how to evaluate this. I think that if we can swarm Thopters, it could be really nice, but we'd have to get somewhere up to around four or five in play when this comes down for it to be worthwhile, in my opinion. That being said, if we can get 5 in play, and then nail a Siege Rhino on the draw on turn 4, this is tempting. I just dunno if we can pull that off.
Hangarback Walker: This screams synergy or eagerness or something for Chief Engineer. I dunno how much mana has to be dumped into this to make it worth it - whether a 2-mana 1/1 which makes a 1/1 flying thopter on death is fine, or if a 4-mana 2/2 which makes 2 1/1 flying Thopters on death is also okay, etc. The pump seems good, if we get a chance to use that. I like the card a lot, and think it's probably strong, but I'm not sure yet how to make it work. If we play Renowned Weaponsmith, it'd be to use this guy's ability every turn for "free."
Pyromancer's Goggles: It's got potential. Convoking this out early with the aid of Chief Engineer and then using it to pound down a ton of burn seems really strong, whether going face or as removal. I can see it more as a piece in a janky comboing burn deck or something, rather than a consistent synergistic whole.
Mage-Ring Responder: A big guy to convoke out, who knocks over basically anything short of Dragonlord Atarka on attack! ... Wait, we can't convoke to pay his untap cost? Well. That's frustrating.
Runed Servitor: A 2-mana 2/2 which gives each player a card when it dies. Probably not worth the card in the 75, but hey, a 2-mana artifact creature might just be what the doctor ordered.
War Horn: Convoke-able attack buff for our Thopters? Seems like an interesting idea. Worth testing, at least.
Foundry of the Consuls: I can see it having potential, maybe as a two-of. With the number of playable artifacts increasing, we might be able to add more colorless-only lands to the deck beyond Darksteel Citadel. I'm skeptical, though. Currently, thinking of it as a two-of.
Initial Thoughts and Analysis:
We've got another legitimate venue to run, now. Before, the Standard Affinity decks were largely based on the aggressive "combo" of Ensoul Artifact + Misc Artifact, usually Ornithopter. Now, we've got the option to try going wide with a horde of Thopter tokens and pumping. Personally, I think it's still advisable to use Ensoul Artifact in such a deck, but that it ought to operate as more similar to Shrapnel Blast than an actual win-con creature as before. With a bunch of tokens running around, the card disadvantage problem becomes mitigated. Losing a Thopter token and Ensoul Artifact is a lot less harsh on our card advantage than losing an Ornithopter and an Ensoul Artifact, particularly since most of the cards which make the Thopter tokens create multiple creatures. So, we ensoul up something as a quick way to deal 5 damage in the air, much as Shrapnel Blast gives us a quick way to toss 5 damage at the face.
Shrapnel Blast and Stoke the Flames seem to be the burn and removal spells of choice for us, for now. Reality Shift still seems highly tempting, especially with our tokens being able to fly over the 2/2 Manifest. Thopter Spy Network and Hangarback Walker seem to me to be our most difficult to remove threats, and likely our strongest threats as well. I'm fairly confident that we should use a full four of Hangarback Walker, but the number of Thopter Spy Network makes me a bit more hesitant. In aggressive builds like I lean towards, two makes sense, but the more long-term (less all-in on Ensoul) builds want four. In the end, I suspect four will be the right play.
There's some M15 cards to reevaluate as well. The biggest one I can think of is Chief Engineer. If we start convoking to play more artifact creatures, which we can use to convoke out artifact creatures... This seems easily able to be gross, quick, just dumping our entire hand. However, Soul of New Phyrexia and Scuttling Doom Engine both seem to be worth bringing back into consideration. After all, the Scuttling Doom Engine plus Shrapnel Blast combo is pretty sick. I've also always wanted to pull that off with Ugin's Nexus. Additionally, I can't imagine Pyromancer's Goggles being successful without being convoked out by Chief Engineer. Also, if we've got enough Thopters running around, I can see Obelisk of Urd being good.
This deck looks to make a bunch of 1/1 flying Thopter tokens, and use them for a mix of beatdown and ability-generation. Day's Undoing and Thopter Spy Network each provide some nice card draw, Shrapnel Blast and Stoke the Flames provide some game-closing reach. The biggest cautions I have at the moment are centered around the creature base. When I glance the creatures over (I've not yet proxied up and played the deck), it just feels like a high-end draft deck, rather than a competitive deck. Otherwise, so far I like the lands and support spells.
As someone who mostly finds himself playing a lot of Limited, I'm cautiously optimistic for Origins. I dunno how to evaluate it precisely in terms of power as a set, but it looks like it ought to provide an interesting variety of Limited draft archetypes of similar power, so that it won't just be everyone trying to squeeze into one "objectively best" archetype or color (Blue in M14, if I remember correctly, is an example). There seems to be more Modern goodies than usual in the average Magic set, with stuff like Day's Undoing and Goblin Piledriver, and who knows what there'll be for sleepers. I dunno for sure how the Standard format following release, and then following rotation at BFZ is gonna look like, but I think that so far Origins looks like it will continue to facilitate healthy variety of decks in Standard, which I've been loving over the last few months. I'd like to have a couple more cards in that "high-end" power level, but so far it looks like the set will be powerful enough to be interesting and enjoyable.
Also, I'd not worry too much about the "reference" cards like Honored Hierarch and Relic Seeker. It seems to me that everyone is focusing on these cards as "Oh, Wizards, you messed it up so bad! We needed these to be high-power!" From my angle, they're using the last core set to print a few references to beloved staples, while trying to limit the level of bonkers available to Standard (although I will admit that the Renown mechanic seems pretty lackluster, to me). The number of those cards is comparatively small, with respect to the rest of the cards in the set.
Of course, we won't get any idea until we actually get to spend some time playing the set. I, for one, am looking forward to both Prerelease and how Constructed play adapts to the new cards. So far it looks to me as though Wizards has done pretty well with their last Core set.
So, there's been a ton of cool-looking new artifact-related cards spoiled, so I'd say scrap the ideas and tinkerings in the OP. I'm currently thinking to experiment with going some form of mono-Red burn, utilizing Shrapnel Blast, Stoke the Flames and Exquisite Firecraft to just try blowing up the opponent's face prior to them being able to do anything irritating (silly opponents, trying to win the game...). IDK the level of competitive quality a deck of this variant may have, but I think it could be worth investigating and testing, at the very least. Anyways, here's a first draft:
The sideboard is kinda all over the place, trying to figure out what'll be good against faster red aggro decks (I'm anticipating Goblin tribal being a major player) as well as what will give the deck extra reach versus the current and upcoming control decks. I think Pyromancer's Goggles can potentially be a huge card for matchups v. control in the current meta, since a lot of control decks run more kill-spell and board-wipe control rather than counterspells (although Silumgar's Scorn and Dissolve are still major players) as far as I understand the format. Perhaps a U/R artifact synergy deck as opposed to a burn deck would be better, with the inclusion of Chief Engineer to convoke out a quick Pyromancer's Goggles would be viable, but at present I'm thinking to leave that concept aside.
I feel like Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient isn't the best option in this deck, since it only synergizes with Hangerback Walker and Hammer of Purphoros. While the extra +1/+1 on Hangarback is nice, and the extra 3/3 from the Hammer is incredible, I don't think they're justified by an entire extra card. I'd also be careful with Generator Servant; it can lead to some absolutely ridiculous and hilarious plays (like T3 swinging Scuttling Doom Engine), It also leans heavily into the "gee, I just got 2 for 1'd" territory.
Chief Engineer is something I've tried before, with little or no success. That being said, with Origins coming in, we're gonna be getting a whole new toolbox full of goodies to play with, and I think he's got a shot once again. Having multiple cards which make multiple artifact tokens (Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Thopter Spy Network, etc.) to let us convoke more nonsense out and basically play our entire hand. I dunno how viable or not it is as a strategy (and it's just begging to get board wiped), but it's worth thinking about.
Yeah, I've been watching the new artifact-synergy cards being spoiled and drooling, so still working on trying to devise a best brew. We've finally got a fairly good 1-drop artifact creature in Bonded Construct!
While I definitely don't hope that this will be a long-term trend in Standard magic, I think it's an interesting decision if they truly don't reprint Elvish Mystic in Origins, or an equivalent card. Remember, we have no confirmation yet, that I know of. I think it'll potentially be an interesting change of pace, even if I wouldn't choose it as a long-term option. That being said, I'm sure we're far from low in terms of ramp. Personally, I suspect that we're going to get a more lands-focused green ramp deck as Standard rotates into BFZ. Explosive Vegetation as well as the new Nissa, Vastwood Seer both tie into a land theme, rather than a mana dorks theme. Also, I'm wondering if we might not get some Tribal spells in the upcoming BFZ which the new elf mana dork would be able to contribute to. Perhaps a Tribal version of Rampant Growth, or even just a straight reprint? A reprint of Rampant Growth seems like it would be appropriately in-theme with lands, for the upcoming rotation into BFZ.
IMO, it makes sense for Wizards to be concerned about power creep (although I can't imagine defining cards like Elvish Mystic as power creep). I mean, I'm pretty sure that cards like Siege Rhino, Collected Company, Dig Through Time/Treasure Cruise and Day's Undoing demonstrate that Wizards is willing to experiment with really, really high-powered cards. For a long while (as far as I can tell), creatures were often under-powered with respect to the spell answers (see: Dies to Doomblade). Trying to change the game up by varying the removal and creatures away from old staples seems like, at the very least, a healthy experiment which might assist in keeping the game from going stale. That being said, I think we're reaching a point where either creatures will have to be pared down again, or spells will have to be pared up again, or somewhere in between. But that's just a hunch.
So, I've been tinkering on and off with Ensoul Artifact and its cousin cards ever since I first played with it in an M15 draft. With the previewing of Pia and Kiran Nalaar, I'm wondering if it's worth it to return to brewing up the janky, strange, but surprisingly effective U/R Affinity or Artifact Burn deck. This is my current Alpha list:
As I've mentioned, this build is definitely meant to be a highly experimental one. I'd really like to see what degree of competitive-viable burn is possible in Standard, and I think that Pia and Kiran Nalaar might be a fairly easy way to "turn on" Shrapnel Blast. Helm of the Gods is another fairly significant experiment which I think has potential. After all, it fits several of the criteria which make Ghostfire Blade so strong in other renditions of the U/R Affinity deck - it's a 1-drop artifact equipment which can either pump a creature or can be used as the raw material for an Ensoul Artifact. However, it does require upping the enchantment count to really be relevant. I've seen some U/W Manifest Affinity decks that I think it could be very strong in. Atarka's Command is another experiment here, since between token generation and trying to shut down pesky Siege Rhino life gain, it has multiple uses.
One of the things I do wonder is if trying to use Ensoul Artifact is "too cute" here. Another list I'm considering is just a Mono-Red artifact burn list which relies on 3 or 4 Pia and Kiran Nalaar alongside 4 Darksteel Citadel to activate Shrapnel Blast, and then just tries going face with Zurgo Bellstriker and Monastery Swiftspear early while hitting with Stoke the Flames and Exquisite Firecraft later to get in the finishing damage. By the philosophy of fire, if we have 8 copies of burn spells which deal 4 damage, we only need 5 of those in order to win even without considering other damage sources. This version of the deck might also want to try Atarka's Command, mixing artifacts with the currently popular "Atarka Red" deck.
Does anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, or refutations? I always appreciate commentary!
Brewed this up yesterday. Looking to play something grindy that can beat both Whip decks and Esper dragons. I know it's really short on removal, but I don't know what I'd want to pull for Hero's Downfall. I suppose I'm just banking on playing more must-kill threats (and recurring them with Whip, K-Command, and Den Protector) than my opponent can handle.
If you're worried about enemy Whip of Erebos decks, I'd definitely consider a few copies of Destructive Revelry in the SB. They're not irrelevant in other matchups either (getting rid of Outpost Siege, etc). Plus, you can redirect the damage to hit a 'Walker!
Hornet Nest is an interesting card I'd not considered before. What do you bring it in against? Something that I've seen that could be worth considering would be running Roast as well, to generate 5 1/1 deathtouch bees if needed.
The Satyr Wayfinder + Sidisi, Undead Vizier package is interesting, but I'm not sure it's the best option. I've not tried it out, though, so I can't comment too much. The tutoring seems nice, but I'm not sure if you want the full 4 with this level of recursion - generally, most graveyard decks I've seen want to recur from the 'yard to the battlefield, not the 'yard to hand as Den Protector and Kolaghan's Command do. I'd suggest at least one more copy of Whip of Erebos as well as maybe considering some of the reanimation spells running around, like Rescue From the Underworld and Fearsome Awakening. As an additional plus, those cards also bring back the creature more permanently than Whip of Erebos, and often at a mana-discount by comparison to bringing it to hand.
Savage Ventmaw might be worth considering since it's got some interesting interactions with Whip of Erebos, although it's probably too cute. I can just imagine ditching a Ventmaw with Wayfinder and then later bringing it back with the Whip, only to use the mana to ramp into a big threat like Dragonlord Atarka or Garruk, Apex Predator.
Speaking of Garruk, I actually think that Ugin, the Spirit Dragon might be better, since he practically wins games when he lands.
Personally, I'd recommend a sweeper like Seismic Rupture or Anger of the Gods instead of Twin Bolt for the mono-Red/aggro matchups, but that's just me. I know Tiemuuu disagrees with me quite a bit on that one!
Hope my rambling's been helpful, Priest! If you've got any specific questions/thoughts, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer or evade or babble more.
First off, sorry to mods if this isn't the best place for a conversation about tilting with respect to deckbuilding. I feel that this is a good place to bring up the discussion since this is the forum that most brewers lurk on. Anyway.
I'm sure I'm not the only person here who not only has experienced tilt in general - during an unlucky game, or when you're losing games to a favorable matchup, and so on - but I am a bit curious about if fellow deckbrewers on here have experienced tilt about their deck in particular. I'm not talking about coming to a realization that a deck just isn't as good as it seems to be, but rather about when you lose a few games in a tournament with a deck you've been brewing and expending your own limited resources of money and time on, and just feel frustrated and depressed about the actual viability of the deck you've placed so much effort into. I've experienced this in the past both with my brewing for Ensoul Artifact decks and lately with my Jund Dragons deck. I'm wondering if other people on here have experienced the same.
In particular, I'm curious about:
- How to resist/prevent tilting on your deck?
- How to tell whether you're tilting, or if the deck idea genuinely isn't working out?
- When is the correct time to give up on a particular deck idea?
Again, I'm not (primarily) trying to start a discussion about when to determine if a deck is just turning out to be bad in testing and in events through the course of many games, but rather to talk about how to deal with the emotional frustration that happens in the process of deckbrewing. I love trying to think up new and interesting - yet competitively viable - decks for Magic, but I sometimes experience it being emotionally draining. While the most success at events I've had have been on straight netdecks or netdeck + tinkering, I tend to get the most satisfaction about designing a strong and interesting deck. I just sometimes find it difficult at times to continue working on the same deck if/when repeatedly facing defeat in events, even if testing is promising.
So, this is the decklist I ran yesterday. It's pretty similar to v. 2.1, so I won't talk in too much detail, just explain the changes.
-1 MD Outpost Siege, +1 MD See the Unwritten: This was mostly a last-minute change, I'll admit. The goal was to add another more threatening card, which has a fair chance of hitting action. The dream, of course, being to hit Dragonlord Atarka plus Dragonlord Kolaghan, but that's obviously magical Christmas land. I never got a chance to cast See the Unwritten yesterday, and only saw it once, so not much to say on it yet.
-2 SB Hero's Downfall, +2 Ultimate Price: Just predicted it to be strictly better, as I wasn't really sure where I'd be wanting Hero's Downfall, except against decks which would potentially have vulnerable Planeswalkers. In hindsight, this should have been SB Roast, with MD Ultimate Price; I just made a bad meta call on the popularity of Abzan.
-2 SB Crux of Fate, +2 Rakshasa Deathdealer: I'm still convinced that Rakshasa Deathdealer is good in the control matchup as an irritatingly difficult card to remove, although I never played against a control deck (and Crux of Fate might have been better in the meta I played in). I'm not sure; I feel like Crux of Fate is definitely good in Jund Dragons, but I'm not sure how to work it to goodness.
Round 2 v. Jeskai Tokens (0-2): Game one he gets his engine online and I just don't draw much action, leading to him burning me out and killing me with Jeskai Ascendancy-triggered tokens. Naturally, I sideboard in my Seismic Ruptures and Virulent Plague, and Destructive Revelry and expect an easy win, with a more difficult G3. ... He completely outplayed me in sideboarding for G2, bringing in Dragonlord Ojutais and other controlling elements, and I didn't have a chance. Oh well.
Matches Record: 1-1.
Round 3 v. Mono-White Heroic (1-2): Rogue deck, playing soldier synergies as well. I won G1, and saw a ton of tokens off of Raise the Alarm and Secure the Wastes. So, bringing in my clears and token-hate. G2 and G3, he stacks up stuff on a Favored Hoplite and with the use of God's Willing and Center Soul prevents me from killing it - and I never draw a Foul-Tongue Invocation to get around protection. G3 I've got Ultimate Price also in a desperate attempt to keep him down, but he lands more frustrating creatures than I can handle.
Matches Record: 1-2.
Round 4 v. Temur Collected Company (1-2): I don't know if this counts as rogue, but was basically a Temur Aggro deck. G1 I died pretty quickly to a Polukranos, World Eater monstrosity trigger and with a bestowed Boon Satyr. I win G2 off the back of kill-spells and ramp, but can't draw more than 4 land in G3 and can't handle his plays once he lands the second Savage Knuckleblade.
Matches Record: 1-3, and drop.
Post-Tournament Deck Thoughts:
I'll be honest, I was tilting pretty hard about the deck after the tournament on the drive home. That's a large part of why I waited a bit before writing this up. I think the best conclusion I can make is that in this format you don't want to be spending time setting up; you want to be acting and reacting as quick as you can. Moving forward, I definitely want a third Foul-Tongue Invocation as well as probably some extra early action, in general. The Ultimate Price v. Roast debate definitely still feels relevant. Also, I'm starting to lean towards agreeing with Tiemuuu and wanting to add back in the Elvish Mystics, albeit reluctantly. I don't think it's a good card, but it might be the card I need here. I'm starting to think about Nissa, Worldwaker as a sticky threat worth considering, whether in the MD or the SB. Crux of Fate also still seems good, and I think I was wrong to remove it. I think that the results was a bit less due to a weakness or unsuitability for the deck, and more due to my own lacks; I've not had time to grind games with it against common meta decks, for example.
That being said, what do you envision as the win-state of this deck? One of the problems which I had with my own Jund brew (and which is one of the ways in which I see similarities) is that it was very good at grinding pieces of value, but it didn't necessarily have a particular goal or intended path to victory. One of the things I might recommend would be Fall of the Titans main-deck, to use Goggles for a blast to the dome after incidental damage gets the opponent low enough. The R/G Goggles Ramp deck that made Top 8 in the Pro Tour might be an interesting reference to look at, even if its plan isn't the same as your own.
A few other comments, in no particular order of importance or merit:
Is Drownyard Temple the best fit in a three-color deck? The interaction with Magmatic Insight is huge (and sort-of a built-in ramp), but when you're looking for color quality over raw quantity of mana, it may not be for the best.
I think you should probably increase the number of lands in the deck. From my (subjective) experience, 23 lands isn't really enough for a deck planning to grind the slow game. With Goggles at 5 CMC, you're looking to guarantee at least 5 land per game, if not more? Usually with this type of deck, I'd be looking at 24 - 26 land, personally.
What all is the purpose of Oath of Nissa? A turn one card filter which makes Chandra, Flamecaller easier to cast isn't bad by any means, but if that's all it's doing, I'm not sure it's the best fit in the deck. I'd consider adding in other planeswalkers such as Ob Nixilis Reignited to generate the most value from the card.
I really like Sylvan Advocate in this type of deck, and I think more copies could be useful. You don't really seem to have much in the way of turn two plays, and many of your lands can ETB untapped. A 2/3 early can block some of the smaller Humans or other aggro creatures effectively, and swing back in due to vigilance to get some free damage, and then as a 4/5 it can be a game-winning threat all on its own.
Anyway, just some general comments and thoughts. I think I like where this deck is going and the general style of "Dudes, Goggles, blow up yo' stuff". Hope I was helpful!
I agree on this point; I'd compare Ensoul Artifact in these decks as more similar to Shrapnel Blast than Rancor - if you get more than one hit, that's just upside. Also, when topdecking, usually have some sort of artifact to Ensoul up, whether an errant Ghostfire Blade or a Darksteel Citadel. Topdecking Ensoul hasn't ever really been a serious problem when I've been tinkering with variants of this deck.
I still worry a bit that Ramroller will be insufficient, but it's more a gut reaction than anything else. I think it really is probably better than Juggernaut.
It's good to hear that Chief Engineer is showing some success in these builds. I think it could be worth bringing back a few of the old big beaters like Scuttling Doom Engine and Soul of New Phyrexia if we'll be able to convoke them out more quickly.
I really like Shadowlink's above list. I still find myself leaning towards going further into R, but I'd love to hear how that list goes in testing v. decks in the current meta.
Apart from the fact that appeal to authority is irrelevant, if the Pro/semi-Pro meta is as you describe, that does attest to the strength of Disdainful Stroke over Clash of Wills. In most of the events I've played (which consists of stuff like PPTQs and IQs, so not anything too large), Disdainful Stroke makes a great SB card, but would be dead or mostly dead in 20% or more of matchups.
More importantly, I think the discussion between whether Disdainful Stroke or Clash of Wills is better MD (if either) is very indicative of a shift in deck conception; as a holdover from the previous group of people working on UR Ensoul, in my mind Standard Affinity is still largely a tempo deck. As such, Clash of Wills is a great card for the deck, since it lets us counter basically anything which costs the opponent's entire turn for 2 mana. However, hard-counters are better for the long game, which it seems like new decks utilizing Thopter Spy Network will be very well set up for attempting to grind out the game while just drawing cards and making a Thopter every turn.
Let me know how Ramroller goes. It was a card that I passed over initially, but I suppose it could work well. In my experience, Juggernaut doesn't work out well, since it's rather squishy in comparison to mana cost. I'd rather Ensoul Artifact a Thopter token for a 5-damage beater.
Personally, I think the cards synergize somewhat well. Origins has the Thopter deck, and M15 has a lot of "artifacts matter" cards which can slot into it to up the power level. Alone, I'm not convinced that the Thopter deck will be strong enough, but I think with some key role players like Ensoul Artifact and Shrapnel Blast, the deck definitely has a chance to do some major damage. Also, I seriously wanna try out Ugin's Nexus now. I doubt that combo will be competitive (unless we're using Chief Engineer to ramp/convoke the Nexus out), but it does seem hilariously janky and fun.
Is Disdainful Stroke really worth a MD slot? It seems to me like a meta call at best, and with the current popularity of little red decks, it seems to me that Disdainful Stroke is just likely to be a dead card in many matchups. I'd suggest Clash of Wills instead, maybe?
On the status of Ensoul Artifact, I guess I see no reason to avoid using it (although we probably have no need to focus on ensouling a Darksteel Citadel anymore); it just seems to make one of our Thopter tokens a bignasty instead of a 1/1 pre-pumps. I might just be too attached to the old deck, though; it had never occurred to me to cut Ensoul Artifact when I was tinkering with the above decklist.
Notable New Toys:
Thopter Spy Network: This seems really strong, just continually plopping out 1/1 flying Thopters for us, and then giving us some card draw. I like this as a notable upgrade over Military Intelligence, and with Darksteel Citadel available and inevitable in our lands we can rely on it somewhat as an engine. I worry that we'll be caught in the crossfire of enchantment hate if Abzan Constellation becomes popular once again. If not, though, the main cards to worry about are Dromoka's Command and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon for enchantment removal, as far as I can remember.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: It makes us 2 more Thopter tokens, and lets us burn up our artifacts for removal or face-burn. I like it. Use of the ability is a bit mana-intensive, and it's a Legendary, so I'm not sure how many copies I'd want in a deck, but I smell potential. Also burning face.
Bonded Construct: Finally, an upgrade from Keeper of the Lens as a 1-drop artifact creature! ... yeah, after a bit more consideration of it, it seems a touch lackluster. Combos worse with Ensoul Artifact and Springleaf Drum than Ornithopter, can't attack T2 unless we're running Monastery Swiftspear, and even then... It just doesn't seem like the best option, to me.
Chief of the Foundry: NOW we're talking! Going wide looks nice and viable. Make a bunch of tokens, use Chief Engineer to convoke out some nastiness, or this, or really just dump our hand, and mash face with 2/2 flying Thopters.
Day's Undoing: Okay, I know this isn't really "our" toy, but something I've always struggled with in this deck was drawing into a way to close out the game after I'd dumped my hand and mashed a bit of face. I'm not sure if this is better than Dig Through Time or not, but the two seem at the least comparable - see 7 cards, but one you only get 2, the other you get all 7, but is sorcery speed instead of instant.
Exquisite Firecraft: Again, not specifically "our" card, but I think it can fit with us. If we're on the go-wide plan instead of the rush-face and then burn plan, Stoke the Flames is probably better.
Clash of Wills: Good counterspells are always worth considering... But considering this is mostly strong early-game, I'm a bit hesitant.
Ghirapur Aether Grid: This could lead to some great finalized burn-finish, but I think it's probably just too slow. Maybe if we already have a pile of artifacts? I'm undecided, but it seems to have potential.
Thopter Engineer: Eh, 2R for a 1/3 and a 1/1 flying Thopter... Oh, what's that? Haste buff? Huh... I'll definitely need to test this a bit, but hasty, pumped tokens seems like it might be powerful.
Whirler Rogue: The parallel to Pia and Kiran Nalaar seems inevitable to me at four mana for a 2/2 and two 1/1 flyers. Upside is that it isn't Legendary. Downside is that the ability seems significantly worse, to me, since at present I don't see granting unblockable to be too useful for us.
Artificer's Epiphany: Instant-speed Divination, with basically no drawback (for us)? Seems decent. Not sure if there'll be space between other, stronger card draw spells like Day's Undoing and Dig Through Time.
Ghirapur Gearcrafter: Similar to Thopter Engineer, but with less upside, in my opinion. Slightly more aggressive body doesn't make it overall worth a card slot, in my estimation.
Reclusive Artificer: I... Don't know how to evaluate this. I think that if we can swarm Thopters, it could be really nice, but we'd have to get somewhere up to around four or five in play when this comes down for it to be worthwhile, in my opinion. That being said, if we can get 5 in play, and then nail a Siege Rhino on the draw on turn 4, this is tempting. I just dunno if we can pull that off.
Hangarback Walker: This screams synergy or eagerness or something for Chief Engineer. I dunno how much mana has to be dumped into this to make it worth it - whether a 2-mana 1/1 which makes a 1/1 flying thopter on death is fine, or if a 4-mana 2/2 which makes 2 1/1 flying Thopters on death is also okay, etc. The pump seems good, if we get a chance to use that. I like the card a lot, and think it's probably strong, but I'm not sure yet how to make it work. If we play Renowned Weaponsmith, it'd be to use this guy's ability every turn for "free."
Pyromancer's Goggles: It's got potential. Convoking this out early with the aid of Chief Engineer and then using it to pound down a ton of burn seems really strong, whether going face or as removal. I can see it more as a piece in a janky comboing burn deck or something, rather than a consistent synergistic whole.
Mage-Ring Responder: A big guy to convoke out, who knocks over basically anything short of Dragonlord Atarka on attack! ... Wait, we can't convoke to pay his untap cost? Well. That's frustrating.
Runed Servitor: A 2-mana 2/2 which gives each player a card when it dies. Probably not worth the card in the 75, but hey, a 2-mana artifact creature might just be what the doctor ordered.
War Horn: Convoke-able attack buff for our Thopters? Seems like an interesting idea. Worth testing, at least.
Foundry of the Consuls: I can see it having potential, maybe as a two-of. With the number of playable artifacts increasing, we might be able to add more colorless-only lands to the deck beyond Darksteel Citadel. I'm skeptical, though. Currently, thinking of it as a two-of.
Initial Thoughts and Analysis:
We've got another legitimate venue to run, now. Before, the Standard Affinity decks were largely based on the aggressive "combo" of Ensoul Artifact + Misc Artifact, usually Ornithopter. Now, we've got the option to try going wide with a horde of Thopter tokens and pumping. Personally, I think it's still advisable to use Ensoul Artifact in such a deck, but that it ought to operate as more similar to Shrapnel Blast than an actual win-con creature as before. With a bunch of tokens running around, the card disadvantage problem becomes mitigated. Losing a Thopter token and Ensoul Artifact is a lot less harsh on our card advantage than losing an Ornithopter and an Ensoul Artifact, particularly since most of the cards which make the Thopter tokens create multiple creatures. So, we ensoul up something as a quick way to deal 5 damage in the air, much as Shrapnel Blast gives us a quick way to toss 5 damage at the face.
Shrapnel Blast and Stoke the Flames seem to be the burn and removal spells of choice for us, for now. Reality Shift still seems highly tempting, especially with our tokens being able to fly over the 2/2 Manifest. Thopter Spy Network and Hangarback Walker seem to me to be our most difficult to remove threats, and likely our strongest threats as well. I'm fairly confident that we should use a full four of Hangarback Walker, but the number of Thopter Spy Network makes me a bit more hesitant. In aggressive builds like I lean towards, two makes sense, but the more long-term (less all-in on Ensoul) builds want four. In the end, I suspect four will be the right play.
There's some M15 cards to reevaluate as well. The biggest one I can think of is Chief Engineer. If we start convoking to play more artifact creatures, which we can use to convoke out artifact creatures... This seems easily able to be gross, quick, just dumping our entire hand. However, Soul of New Phyrexia and Scuttling Doom Engine both seem to be worth bringing back into consideration. After all, the Scuttling Doom Engine plus Shrapnel Blast combo is pretty sick. I've also always wanted to pull that off with Ugin's Nexus. Additionally, I can't imagine Pyromancer's Goggles being successful without being convoked out by Chief Engineer. Also, if we've got enough Thopters running around, I can see Obelisk of Urd being good.
Current Prospective Decklist I'm Looking To Test:
3 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Hangarback Walker
3 Thopter Engineer
3 Chief of the Foundry
2 Reclusive Artificer
2 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
4 Ornithopter
Instants (8):
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Shrapnel Blast
3 Ghostfire Blade
Sorceries (2):
2 Day's Undoing
Enchantments (4):
4 Thopter Spy Network
Lands (22):
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Foundry of the Consuls
4 Shivan Reef
2 Mana Confluence
4 Temple of Epiphany
3 Mountain
3 Island
2 Obelisk of Urd
2 Tormod's Crypt
4 Clash of Wills
4 Negate
3 Anger of the Gods
This deck looks to make a bunch of 1/1 flying Thopter tokens, and use them for a mix of beatdown and ability-generation. Day's Undoing and Thopter Spy Network each provide some nice card draw, Shrapnel Blast and Stoke the Flames provide some game-closing reach. The biggest cautions I have at the moment are centered around the creature base. When I glance the creatures over (I've not yet proxied up and played the deck), it just feels like a high-end draft deck, rather than a competitive deck. Otherwise, so far I like the lands and support spells.
What do y'all think?
Also, I'd not worry too much about the "reference" cards like Honored Hierarch and Relic Seeker. It seems to me that everyone is focusing on these cards as "Oh, Wizards, you messed it up so bad! We needed these to be high-power!" From my angle, they're using the last core set to print a few references to beloved staples, while trying to limit the level of bonkers available to Standard (although I will admit that the Renown mechanic seems pretty lackluster, to me). The number of those cards is comparatively small, with respect to the rest of the cards in the set.
Of course, we won't get any idea until we actually get to spend some time playing the set. I, for one, am looking forward to both Prerelease and how Constructed play adapts to the new cards. So far it looks to me as though Wizards has done pretty well with their last Core set.
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Bonded Construct
4 Hangarback Walker
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
2 Chief of the Foundry
4 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
4 Shrapnel Blast
Sorceries (4):
4 Exquisite Firecraft
Artifacts (4):
4 Ghostfire Blade
Lands (22):
4 Darksteel Citadel
18 Mountain
3 Chandra's Fury
4 Searing Blood
2 Avaricious Dragon
2 Pyromancer's Goggles
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Flamewake Phoenix
The sideboard is kinda all over the place, trying to figure out what'll be good against faster red aggro decks (I'm anticipating Goblin tribal being a major player) as well as what will give the deck extra reach versus the current and upcoming control decks. I think Pyromancer's Goggles can potentially be a huge card for matchups v. control in the current meta, since a lot of control decks run more kill-spell and board-wipe control rather than counterspells (although Silumgar's Scorn and Dissolve are still major players) as far as I understand the format. Perhaps a U/R artifact synergy deck as opposed to a burn deck would be better, with the inclusion of Chief Engineer to convoke out a quick Pyromancer's Goggles would be viable, but at present I'm thinking to leave that concept aside.
I'm unsure of the numbers on Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh, and Chief of the Foundry - and I'm heavily considering excluding the Chief of the Foundry entirely, perhaps replacing him with either Phyrexian Revoker or Runed Servitor for more artifact creatures to synergize with Ghostfire blade. The challenge is that while I think they're all good cards, I've not gotten a chance to proxy and play this, and consequentially see how big an issue legendary might be.
Chief Engineer is something I've tried before, with little or no success. That being said, with Origins coming in, we're gonna be getting a whole new toolbox full of goodies to play with, and I think he's got a shot once again. Having multiple cards which make multiple artifact tokens (Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Thopter Spy Network, etc.) to let us convoke more nonsense out and basically play our entire hand. I dunno how viable or not it is as a strategy (and it's just begging to get board wiped), but it's worth thinking about.
IMO, it makes sense for Wizards to be concerned about power creep (although I can't imagine defining cards like Elvish Mystic as power creep). I mean, I'm pretty sure that cards like Siege Rhino, Collected Company, Dig Through Time/Treasure Cruise and Day's Undoing demonstrate that Wizards is willing to experiment with really, really high-powered cards. For a long while (as far as I can tell), creatures were often under-powered with respect to the spell answers (see: Dies to Doomblade). Trying to change the game up by varying the removal and creatures away from old staples seems like, at the very least, a healthy experiment which might assist in keeping the game from going stale. That being said, I think we're reaching a point where either creatures will have to be pared down again, or spells will have to be pared up again, or somewhere in between. But that's just a hunch.
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh
4 Ornithopter
2 Phyrexian Revoker
Enchantments (7):
4 Ensoul Artifact
3 Cloudform
Artifacts (5):
4 Ghostfire Blade
1 Helm of the Gods
Instants (13):
3 Dig Through Time
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Stubborn Denial
2 Atarka's Command
4 Exquisite Firecraft
Lands (22):
2 Mana Confluence
4 Shivan Reef
2 Flooded Strand
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Temple of Epiphany
2 Mountain
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Disdainful Stroke
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Flamewake Phoenix
As I've mentioned, this build is definitely meant to be a highly experimental one. I'd really like to see what degree of competitive-viable burn is possible in Standard, and I think that Pia and Kiran Nalaar might be a fairly easy way to "turn on" Shrapnel Blast. Helm of the Gods is another fairly significant experiment which I think has potential. After all, it fits several of the criteria which make Ghostfire Blade so strong in other renditions of the U/R Affinity deck - it's a 1-drop artifact equipment which can either pump a creature or can be used as the raw material for an Ensoul Artifact. However, it does require upping the enchantment count to really be relevant. I've seen some U/W Manifest Affinity decks that I think it could be very strong in. Atarka's Command is another experiment here, since between token generation and trying to shut down pesky Siege Rhino life gain, it has multiple uses.
One of the things I do wonder is if trying to use Ensoul Artifact is "too cute" here. Another list I'm considering is just a Mono-Red artifact burn list which relies on 3 or 4 Pia and Kiran Nalaar alongside 4 Darksteel Citadel to activate Shrapnel Blast, and then just tries going face with Zurgo Bellstriker and Monastery Swiftspear early while hitting with Stoke the Flames and Exquisite Firecraft later to get in the finishing damage. By the philosophy of fire, if we have 8 copies of burn spells which deal 4 damage, we only need 5 of those in order to win even without considering other damage sources. This version of the deck might also want to try Atarka's Command, mixing artifacts with the currently popular "Atarka Red" deck.
Does anyone have any thoughts, suggestions, or refutations? I always appreciate commentary!
If you're worried about enemy Whip of Erebos decks, I'd definitely consider a few copies of Destructive Revelry in the SB. They're not irrelevant in other matchups either (getting rid of Outpost Siege, etc). Plus, you can redirect the damage to hit a 'Walker!
Hornet Nest is an interesting card I'd not considered before. What do you bring it in against? Something that I've seen that could be worth considering would be running Roast as well, to generate 5 1/1 deathtouch bees if needed.
The Satyr Wayfinder + Sidisi, Undead Vizier package is interesting, but I'm not sure it's the best option. I've not tried it out, though, so I can't comment too much. The tutoring seems nice, but I'm not sure if you want the full 4 with this level of recursion - generally, most graveyard decks I've seen want to recur from the 'yard to the battlefield, not the 'yard to hand as Den Protector and Kolaghan's Command do. I'd suggest at least one more copy of Whip of Erebos as well as maybe considering some of the reanimation spells running around, like Rescue From the Underworld and Fearsome Awakening. As an additional plus, those cards also bring back the creature more permanently than Whip of Erebos, and often at a mana-discount by comparison to bringing it to hand.
Savage Ventmaw might be worth considering since it's got some interesting interactions with Whip of Erebos, although it's probably too cute. I can just imagine ditching a Ventmaw with Wayfinder and then later bringing it back with the Whip, only to use the mana to ramp into a big threat like Dragonlord Atarka or Garruk, Apex Predator.
Speaking of Garruk, I actually think that Ugin, the Spirit Dragon might be better, since he practically wins games when he lands.
Personally, I'd recommend a sweeper like Seismic Rupture or Anger of the Gods instead of Twin Bolt for the mono-Red/aggro matchups, but that's just me. I know Tiemuuu disagrees with me quite a bit on that one!
Hope my rambling's been helpful, Priest! If you've got any specific questions/thoughts, feel free to ask and I'll try to answer or evade or babble more.
I'm sure I'm not the only person here who not only has experienced tilt in general - during an unlucky game, or when you're losing games to a favorable matchup, and so on - but I am a bit curious about if fellow deckbrewers on here have experienced tilt about their deck in particular. I'm not talking about coming to a realization that a deck just isn't as good as it seems to be, but rather about when you lose a few games in a tournament with a deck you've been brewing and expending your own limited resources of money and time on, and just feel frustrated and depressed about the actual viability of the deck you've placed so much effort into. I've experienced this in the past both with my brewing for Ensoul Artifact decks and lately with my Jund Dragons deck. I'm wondering if other people on here have experienced the same.
In particular, I'm curious about:
- How to resist/prevent tilting on your deck?
- How to tell whether you're tilting, or if the deck idea genuinely isn't working out?
- When is the correct time to give up on a particular deck idea?
Again, I'm not (primarily) trying to start a discussion about when to determine if a deck is just turning out to be bad in testing and in events through the course of many games, but rather to talk about how to deal with the emotional frustration that happens in the process of deckbrewing. I love trying to think up new and interesting - yet competitively viable - decks for Magic, but I sometimes experience it being emotionally draining. While the most success at events I've had have been on straight netdecks or netdeck + tinkering, I tend to get the most satisfaction about designing a strong and interesting deck. I just sometimes find it difficult at times to continue working on the same deck if/when repeatedly facing defeat in events, even if testing is promising.
2 Den Protector
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Dragonlord Kolaghan
2 Dragonlord Atarka
Sorceries (6):
2 Thoughtseize
1 Crater's Claws
2 Roast
1 See the Unwritten
Instants (5):
2 Foul-Tongue Invocation
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Murderous Cut
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
Lands (25):
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Temple of Abandon
2 Temple of Malice
2 Temple of Malady
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon
1 Mana Confluence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Llanowar Wastes
3 Mountain
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
2 Ultimate Price
2 Rakshasa Deathdealer
2 Destructive Revelry
3 Seismic Rupture
1 Virulent Plague
1 Outpost Siege
So, this is the decklist I ran yesterday. It's pretty similar to v. 2.1, so I won't talk in too much detail, just explain the changes.
-1 MD Outpost Siege, +1 MD See the Unwritten: This was mostly a last-minute change, I'll admit. The goal was to add another more threatening card, which has a fair chance of hitting action. The dream, of course, being to hit Dragonlord Atarka plus Dragonlord Kolaghan, but that's obviously magical Christmas land. I never got a chance to cast See the Unwritten yesterday, and only saw it once, so not much to say on it yet.
-2 SB Hero's Downfall, +2 Ultimate Price: Just predicted it to be strictly better, as I wasn't really sure where I'd be wanting Hero's Downfall, except against decks which would potentially have vulnerable Planeswalkers. In hindsight, this should have been SB Roast, with MD Ultimate Price; I just made a bad meta call on the popularity of Abzan.
-2 SB Crux of Fate, +2 Rakshasa Deathdealer: I'm still convinced that Rakshasa Deathdealer is good in the control matchup as an irritatingly difficult card to remove, although I never played against a control deck (and Crux of Fate might have been better in the meta I played in). I'm not sure; I feel like Crux of Fate is definitely good in Jund Dragons, but I'm not sure how to work it to goodness.
Tournament Report:
Round 1 v. Atarka Red (2-1): Game one was absolutely brutal; I got pretty thoroughly trashed by Foundry Street Denizen, Hordeling Outburst and Atarka's Command for the kill on T4. Kind of what I'd expected for G1, though, to be honest. Sideboarded in my copies of Seismic Rupture and Virulent Plague, taking out Thoughtseize and Roast, if I remember correctly. G2 I'm on the play, and two Sylvan Carytids lead me to a T5 Dragonlord Atarka for maximum winning. G3 I just refuse him any board presence, even with a T2 Crater's Claws on his Foundry Street Denizen and using Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker's -3 to kill a second one later in the game.
Matches Record: 1-0.
Round 2 v. Jeskai Tokens (0-2): Game one he gets his engine online and I just don't draw much action, leading to him burning me out and killing me with Jeskai Ascendancy-triggered tokens. Naturally, I sideboard in my Seismic Ruptures and Virulent Plague, and Destructive Revelry and expect an easy win, with a more difficult G3. ... He completely outplayed me in sideboarding for G2, bringing in Dragonlord Ojutais and other controlling elements, and I didn't have a chance. Oh well.
Matches Record: 1-1.
Round 3 v. Mono-White Heroic (1-2): Rogue deck, playing soldier synergies as well. I won G1, and saw a ton of tokens off of Raise the Alarm and Secure the Wastes. So, bringing in my clears and token-hate. G2 and G3, he stacks up stuff on a Favored Hoplite and with the use of God's Willing and Center Soul prevents me from killing it - and I never draw a Foul-Tongue Invocation to get around protection. G3 I've got Ultimate Price also in a desperate attempt to keep him down, but he lands more frustrating creatures than I can handle.
Matches Record: 1-2.
Round 4 v. Temur Collected Company (1-2): I don't know if this counts as rogue, but was basically a Temur Aggro deck. G1 I died pretty quickly to a Polukranos, World Eater monstrosity trigger and with a bestowed Boon Satyr. I win G2 off the back of kill-spells and ramp, but can't draw more than 4 land in G3 and can't handle his plays once he lands the second Savage Knuckleblade.
Matches Record: 1-3, and drop.
Post-Tournament Deck Thoughts:
I'll be honest, I was tilting pretty hard about the deck after the tournament on the drive home. That's a large part of why I waited a bit before writing this up. I think the best conclusion I can make is that in this format you don't want to be spending time setting up; you want to be acting and reacting as quick as you can. Moving forward, I definitely want a third Foul-Tongue Invocation as well as probably some extra early action, in general. The Ultimate Price v. Roast debate definitely still feels relevant. Also, I'm starting to lean towards agreeing with Tiemuuu and wanting to add back in the Elvish Mystics, albeit reluctantly. I don't think it's a good card, but it might be the card I need here. I'm starting to think about Nissa, Worldwaker as a sticky threat worth considering, whether in the MD or the SB. Crux of Fate also still seems good, and I think I was wrong to remove it. I think that the results was a bit less due to a weakness or unsuitability for the deck, and more due to my own lacks; I've not had time to grind games with it against common meta decks, for example.