Deckstats has had this at lease since Aether Revolt.
I know I was brewing with Renegade Rallier on there site maybe 1-2 hours after it was previewed, and this spoiler season they had Gideon of the Trials up almost instantly when I tried to brew.
- Kueson
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Feb 22, 2012Kueson posted a message on UG Generic DredgeI already have, and every card you listed omit Trackers is sub par on many levels to other options we posses.Posted in: Kueson Blog
Flat out, creature based, activated ability milling is a bad idea. About the only time its "ok" is against a heavy control meta where you have the time to spend a few turns selectively milling yourself. In most cases, simply bum rushing your graveyard with mass amounts of cards as quick as possible, will net you greater results in the long run. Not to mention, if you just make 30+ cards in your deck creatures, selective milling looses all value because your draws will almost always be great cards for any situation your in.
I made this comparison in the standard dredge thread,
Merfolk Looter - Screeching Skaab
- Looter cannot mill the turn its played. (And needs 3 turns to mill as much as skaab.)
- Skaab mills 2 the moment it hits the field.
- Looter cannot attack or block because it needs to tap to actively mill.
- Skaab can attack and block at will, because his mill is over with. He is a means of damage and preventing damage, with the hopes he hits your graveyard to be of even more use!
Civilized Scholar - Armored Skaab
- Scholar cannot mill the turn its played. (And needs !!!5!!! turns to mill as much as skaab. Plus thats only if you do not attack with him. If you do attack, he takes an extra turn just to regain his tap ability!)
- Skaab mills 4 the moment it hits the field.
- Scholar cannot attack or block at will because it needs to tap to actively mill.
- Skaab can attack and block at will, because his mill is over with. He is a means of damage and preventing damage, with the hopes he hits your graveyard to be of even more use!
When you consider all of those factors, cards like Merfolk Looter, Civilized Scholar and Deranged Assistant really lose a lot of there face value.
Likewise, Forbidden Alchemy is just a bad, BAD card. There are SOOOOO many better milling options out there, you could literally pick any one of them and probably end up in better shape. Mulch, Dream Twist, Thought Scour, Faithless Looting and Shriekhorn all come to mind before I would ever consider seriously running an alchemy. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I don't know what the right play is when trying to block or not to block a morph creature if something like that ends up existing in the meta.
From there you add a 10 land cycle of dual-color lands. For the sale of flavor, I would hope they would all be new. So they could be watermarked and have sweet flavor text that makes me happy.
Imagine if you will, Khans has 5 dual lands. Dewey has 0 dual lands. Louie has 5 dual lands.
Khans Dual Lands: Present day Tarkir. (Friendly To Main Color)
Abzan: WG
Jeskai: UW
Sultai: BU
Mardu: RB
Temur: GR
Dewey Tri-Lands: Distant Past of Tarkir. (0 Dual Lands)
Time travel arc, to a time when the clans did not exist/did not lust after the dragons and thus have no color identity. But you could technically throw the tri-lands in this set as enemy colored Lair's and use the whatever dragons names to complete that cycle.
Abzan Dragon Lair: WGB
Jeskai Dragon Lair: UWR
Sultai Dragon Lair: BUG
Mardu Dragon Lair: RBW
Temur Dragon Lair: GRU
Louie Dual Lands: Alternate Timeline Present/Future of Tarkir. (Enemy To Main Color)
Abzan: WB
Jeskai: UR
Sultai: BG
Mardu: RW
Temur: GU
Basically all boiling down to your meddling in the past slightly changed how the clans exist in the present/future and they show preference to there enemy color rather then there friendly color.
From there I can only hope the 10 card land cycle would be morph lands. The idea that the land itself is overflowing with the latent power of the now extinct dragons and possess the ability to transform themselves with that power seems very cool thematically. Would also explain why you would not see dual lands in the small set, as in that set dragons exist and thus there power would not be spread about the land.
I'm probably reading into it too much. But when it's all laid out and you overlay the whole time travel storyline on top of it, it does seem to make a lot of sense.
Yes please.
We have wedges now. Chances are we go back in time to a small set where the clans probably did not exist (and thus is not a itself a wedge set), then we leap back to the present/future and get to see what our meddling in the past has changed.
At which point the all bets are off and we may see clans return, we may see clans return but there main color has shifted. (Azban becomes green, Jeskai white, Sultai blue, Mardu black and Temur red. Or whatever they may or may not decide.) We may see a world in chaos in a world where dragons were never hunted to extinction, and all of Tarkir's inhabitants have rallied together as one coalition against the dragons in order to rid the world of there all consuming hunger for power!
Thats my guess at least. MaRo was so excited to tell us all about the whole time travel theme of the set, and kept going back to it every time anyone else at the Comic-Con panel opened there mouths that I have to believe its the main reason things are the way they are, and it will all become clear in time.
Source: Flavor Text. Its all there, ALL of it. ಠ_ಠ
Shards did not have watermarks, so we have no metric to judge a wedge set against in terms of a watermark. The closest thing we do have is the Guilds and Scars of Mirrodin block to base things off of. The former of which seemed to be based on mechanics first flavor second, the latter almost seemingly the reverse.
I've always loved lands that produced a color on its own, but had some sort of requirement to become able to produce multiple colors. Ideas I've messed around with as proxies in some custom cubes: The big problem with this style of land is that often times the best land base was running all of these lands, even if only one of the secondary colors were on color.
Another idea was to make strictly better versions of the Homelands "filter lands": The idea here is that the land produces on color for free, filters for friendly color easily through colorless, and filters for enemy color with the added restriction of needing to use the clans main color to do this. This setup also comes with its own system of checks and balances, in that (With Jeskai as an example) the other two lands that produce an on color mana for free would be from the Abzan and Mardu. In the case of the Azban both secondaries are worthless, and in the case of the Mardu only the enemy color is on color for Jeskai thus allowing it to function as a R/W land.
My favorite idea however, was morphlands. Completely impracticable, but man are they fun. And the fact that you would run a bunch of them in a single list gives a solid foundation of morph cards to hide your better morph cards among.
Cards like Lethal Vapors, Lightmine Field, Spreading Plague, and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale could potentially lock my opponents out of the game, while leaving me literally 100% unaffected. If anyone knows of any more/better stax options that having a list where every creature is indestructible allows me to dodge the effect myself, I'd love to add them to the list.
After many revisions tho, I am at a loss with what to add, and what direction to take the deck in. As it stands the list is slow, and its only real win condition is based around my gods. I feel like I should have a backup plan, but with my gods taking up 15 slots of the list, I also feel I should try to get as much use out of them as I can, rather then take up more slots with another win condition...
Any thoughts, suggestions, critique?
Edit: Probably worth pointing out that I am trying to keep to an enchantment theme, mostly to make double use of my enchantment tutors and ETB enchantment effects, enchantment protection, ext.
As my entire creature board is also enchantment based, it seemed right to go this direction because that puts me 15 cards into an enchantment theme to begin with.
Ran into a card that almost completely solved my problem, Burgeoning. I now have a rough deck list that I have to start hammering out the kinks of;
4 Psychosis Crawler
4 Prophet of Kruphix
Card Advantage Engine: 8
4 Mystic Remora
4 Rhystic Study
4 Burgeoning
4 Brainstorm
4 Meditate
Countermagic: 12
4 Force of Will
4 Misdirection
4 Commandeer
4 Reliquary Tower
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
7 Island
1 Forest
Basic idea, find Mystic Remora + Burgeoning quickly. After that, watch as cards flow into your hand and lands flop onto the battlefield. And when they go to destroy your super combo, counter them with free stuff, because 32 cards of the deck are blue, there should be no problem pitching for the 12 counter magic spells. End game is to land a Psychosis Crawler, if need be through a Prophet of Kruphix if need be.
With the addition of Burgeoning however, Prophet of Kruphix almost seems unnecessary... Not quite sure where this decks going, but its going.
Suggestions/critique?
With that much card draw, Psychosis Crawler seems to me to be the best option to kill all of my opponents at once, and if for some reason I get a chance to swing even once with him, I'll either kill someone, or throw them on an extremely low clock.
To backup Mystic Remora, Rhystic Study seems like a perfect fit. Likewise, Meditate combos well with remora, being extremely efficient draw, and turning its negative into a positive (you skip an upkeep for remora, so you don't have to keep paying.) Keeping with that theme, Chronatog seemed like a perfect fit to allow you to skip remora's upkeep for as long as you needed to. The only big downside that I'm trying to work out with this, is you skip a land drop, which is huge.
With all that card draw, (and possible turn skips), you'd need protection that comes "cost free", so Force of Will and Misdirection are easy auto 4 of's imo. I also want to fit Commandeer into the list, as its basically another copy of the above, and with the amount of card draw my deck should pump out, tossing 2 blues shouldn't be hard.
I'm running into a huge problem tho. And this is really where I could use some help. Psychosis Crawler cost 5, and I don't know how I get to 5 mana before dying. One idea was also to put out a Prophet of Kruphix so even when I turn skip, I can have all my lands at the ready, as well as allow me to cast at instant speed my Psychosis Crawler at instant speed once I finally draw him. But Prophet of Kruphix has the same problem of costing 5 mana.
Anyone have any suggestions to speed up the clock of this deck?
Once I achieve something like Prophet of Kruphix + Psychosis Crawler + Mystic Remora, the game should end pretty fast. Giving near infinite mana *or as much as I could possibly ever need*, the card draw giving me a hand full of counterspell's and pinging all of my opponents every time, as well as drawing into bombs like Meditate that deal 4 damage to the board and further fill my hand, the game should be over, real fast.
I love the strategy of this idea, its just a matter of I don't know if ill ever live long enough against stuff like merfolk or reanimater, which I'm sure some of my friends will build then tune for multiplayer.
Any and all suggestions welcome, there has to be a way to get this deck working, there just has to be.
Second, running a package of untappers in multiplayer will boost your tutoring power with Sisay significantly. Cards like Seedborn Muse and Quest for Renewal can untap you every upkeep, so you get 4 legend tutors per round (assuming your playing with the most well balanced number of players in multiplayer. imo). While cards like Nature's Chosen and Instill Energy allows for an extra tap per turn for the low cost of one G. Thousand-Year Elixir probably one of the overall best. Get it out before you drop Sisay and it basically gives her haste, and the ability to tap twice the turn she comes out.
Tempt with Discovery is also a political bomb in multiplayer. The thing to remember is that players decide in turn order weather or not to choose a land. So the first opponent to choose doesn't know if his other opponents will take the land. So often times opponent 1 takes the land as not to get left out, the middle opponents feel the pressure to take the land because you are already getting at least 2 lands, often take the land, and the last opponent just takes the free land, because your already at twice the lands of anyone else by the time the spell resolves anyway lol. By far the biggest bomb I've dropped in multiplayer for the past few weeks after adding it to my deck. At worst, at least its a 4 mana any-land tutor that comes into play untapped. Still worth the 4 mana imo.
That said your ramp package seems a little slow. You run to many cards that simply tutor for lands for your hand, rather then getting them into play. Whenever I play green, I wouldn't be caught dead without:
Bow of Nylea is also probably one of the best cards in testing in my Sisay deck I'm trying to tune for multiplayer. Its basically a second copy of Jitte most of the time, either gaining life or putting +1/+1 counters on things, but the best part is whenever you have something die, you can put it back on the bottom of your library and Sisay for it again. Even better, its a legendary! So Sisay can tutor for it on demand.
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker I would also recommend as singular pillowfort card. Often times if you tutor for her with your first Sisay activation and land her on the board early, you instantly fall off the radar of people your opponents will even consider attacking, leaving you plenty of room to sculpt your hand and eventually make your move later on the game.
Last thing I would recommend, Tooth and Nail and Defense of the Heart. The ability to tutor and put onto the battlefield a 2 creature combo can blow the game wide open for you. Possibly one of my favorite combos being Avacyn, Angel of Hope + Archetype of Endurance. Makes your board indestructible and untargetable. So pretty much your opponent better have a Merciless Eviction or Toxic Deluge if they plan on killing any creature you have going forward.
I should add, a very useful stack-abusing tricks Sisay can do. If you are running tuck cards in your list, when your opponents go to tuck/exile/destroy Sisay, if you have a tuck to spare, activate Sisay, and in response to the activation, tuck your own Sisay. Tuck resolves and she goes into your deck, and then her ability resolves and you can tutor for herself and put her into your hand. This makes cards like Unexpectedly Absent have even more utility, as well as make Oblition probably the most broken protection spell in a Sisay list.