Deckstats has had this at lease since Aether Revolt.
I know I was brewing with Renegade Rallier on there site maybe 1-2 hours after it was previewed, and this spoiler season they had Gideon of the Trials up almost instantly when I tried to brew.
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- Kueson
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Member for 18 years and 24 days
Last active Fri, Jul, 7 2017 13:56:11
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Feb 22, 2012
Kueson posted a message on UG Generic DredgeI already have, and every card you listed omit Trackers is sub par on many levels to other options we posses.Posted in: Kueson Blog
Flat out, creature based, activated ability milling is a bad idea. About the only time its "ok" is against a heavy control meta where you have the time to spend a few turns selectively milling yourself. In most cases, simply bum rushing your graveyard with mass amounts of cards as quick as possible, will net you greater results in the long run. Not to mention, if you just make 30+ cards in your deck creatures, selective milling looses all value because your draws will almost always be great cards for any situation your in.
I made this comparison in the standard dredge thread,
Merfolk Looter - Screeching Skaab
- Looter cannot mill the turn its played. (And needs 3 turns to mill as much as skaab.)
- Skaab mills 2 the moment it hits the field.
- Looter cannot attack or block because it needs to tap to actively mill.
- Skaab can attack and block at will, because his mill is over with. He is a means of damage and preventing damage, with the hopes he hits your graveyard to be of even more use!
Civilized Scholar - Armored Skaab
- Scholar cannot mill the turn its played. (And needs !!!5!!! turns to mill as much as skaab. Plus thats only if you do not attack with him. If you do attack, he takes an extra turn just to regain his tap ability!)
- Skaab mills 4 the moment it hits the field.
- Scholar cannot attack or block at will because it needs to tap to actively mill.
- Skaab can attack and block at will, because his mill is over with. He is a means of damage and preventing damage, with the hopes he hits your graveyard to be of even more use!
When you consider all of those factors, cards like Merfolk Looter, Civilized Scholar and Deranged Assistant really lose a lot of there face value.
Likewise, Forbidden Alchemy is just a bad, BAD card. There are SOOOOO many better milling options out there, you could literally pick any one of them and probably end up in better shape. Mulch, Dream Twist, Thought Scour, Faithless Looting and Shriekhorn all come to mind before I would ever consider seriously running an alchemy. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Idk, I defiantly think Dragonlord Dromoka and Dragonlord Silumgar and to some degree Dragonlord Atarka have what it takes to be in the 1of99 of a precon. Albeit I will give you Dragonlord Ojutai being a little meh and Dragonlord Kolaghan making almost no sense in an EDH list.
Honestly, Dragonlord Kolaghan actually kinda shoots down my whole theory. Sad day.
As I sit typing this, it actually seems to make to much sense to me, and I feel like this might be the way it goes.
I don't know if its less likely or more likely to see a revamped elder dragon cycle after seing the elder subtype pop up in DTK, but I must say I would love to see Bolas and crew at the head of a deck again.
Cmon now, they arent always bad, sometimes you get a Chosen of Markov!
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/ygg39/im_really_good_friends_with_magic_artist_steve/
The idea that hybrid cards however, should be allowed in any deck with the ability to hard cast them is an interesting concept. It makes you wonder what if the color identity restriction rule was removed altogether, but lands were still only able to produce mana of your commander's color color identity, or colorless.
What all would change in the format? A few hybrid cards are suddenly able to be played in a color they were designed to be able to cast in anyway? Is that so bad? You would still be unable to make use of cards like Volrath Stronghold in a nonblack list, even tho the rules would no longer restrict you from playing it.
Some additional food for thought. I see a few people bring up not wanting to see lists that are supposed to be mono-colored have assess to say, a dual colored hybrid creature because it somehow creates confusion when a mono green deck suddenly has a blue-green creature. To that I say, do you find it confusing when a nongreen list runs Acorn Catapult? Or any non-five color list running Sarpadian Empires, Vol. VII?
Narset, Ascended Master 1URW
Plansewalker - Narset (Mythic)
+1: Narset, Ascended Master deals 1 damage to target creature or player. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, exile it instead.
0: Look at the top three cards of your library, you may exile up to one card face down. If you do, put loyalty counters on Narset, Ascended Master equal to that card's converted mana cost. Then put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order. You may look at the face down card for as long as it remains exiled.
−X: You may cast a spell with converted mana cost X exiled with Narset, Ascended Master. It becomes colorless. (This effect lasts indefinitely.)
Narset, Ascended Master is colorless.
(Loyalty: 2)
Mutable Summit
Land - Mountain (Rare)
T: Add 1 to your mana pool. Put a change counter on Mutable Summit.
T, Remove a change counter from Mutable Summit: Add RR to your mana pool. Mutable Summit doesn’t untap during your next untap step.
One card to consider if you move to a midrange/control shell in Temur colors, Arc Lightning. Kill three tokens, kill a mantis, kill a rabblemaster and ping one of his tokens, ping an enemies phoenix and put two into his face. Ext, Ext.
Or probably the most important combo, ping your nest and put the other two damage wherever it is best served. All the fun of Flames of the Firebrand but with worse art!
It's to bad polukranos can only hit your opponents creatures, or he could fill the same fun filled nest pinging role.
I chose to start this discussion in budget as in a fully powered competitive deck, you likely would never see even a singleton of any refuge land survive the final cut. lol. So if they see play, it would likely only be in a budget list anyway.
What are everyones opinions on functional use of these as budget replacements for pain lands or temples in budget lists? Seems in almost every list here, people still either just submit and spend at least $20-25 on there land base to pickup some of the less pricey pain lands and a temple or two, or go mono-colored for budget.
As a second topic of discussion, is there a way to abuse them? Two very obvious cards that come to mind if you opt to knuckle down and include a full list of refuge lands in a list, being Ajani's Pridemate, Wall of Limbs and as a distant third Sunbond. Every turn you make landfall, you would also pump your creatures larger and larger. There are also cards such as Nyx-Fleece Ram and Horizon Chimera that guarantee life gain each turn to further pump your creatures/last till late game when you can overcome being 1 turn behind all game because your lands always come into play tapped.
Thoughts, comments, criticism?
It is nearly as good as a 5 mana Wrath of God against Goblin Rabblemaster based wins that you are likely to see from both Jeskai and Mardu. Speaking of Mardu, it also wraths Raise the Alarm, Mardu Charm, Hordeling Outburst and Mardu Ascendancy tokens used to fuel Butcher of the Horde. As well as still being a nice speedbump for any aggro based win with such favorites as Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Mantis Rider, Polukranos, World Eater or any giant fatty for that matter.
Ætherspouts just seems underplayed to me, thoughts?
I may try to run a list with 4x Flame-Wreathed Phoenix and 4x Master of Predicaments. If master hits, your opponent will have a hard time deciding four or less, or five or more when you have equally impressive threats in both categories. lol.
They do. Tribute is triggered as the creature is transitioning from the stack, and it would enter the battlefield with the counters already placed on the creature, this is the reason Fanatic of Xenagos interacts poorly with Temur Ascendancy is because the options become:
1RG: 3/3 Trample Haste + "+1/+1 Until end of turn."
(or)
1RG: 4/4 Trample Haste + Draw a card.
To which, nobody in there right mind would ever allow you to gain that +1/+1 permanently, and draw a card to boot. lol.
This is also the difference between Temur Ascendancy triggering and not triggering in this situation. If tribute is payed it enters as a 3/3 with a +1/+1 counter. If it's trigger is not payed, it enters the battlefield and then triggers its +1/+1 until end of turn ability, by which point Temur Ascendancy's trigger has come and gone.
Some of the more interesting, on color options with tribute:
Nessian Demolok
- 3GG: 3/3 Haste + Bramblecrush
(or)
- 3GG: 5/5 Haste + Draw a card.
Siren of the Fanged Coast
- 3UU: 1/1 Flying Haste + Indefinite creature theft.
(or)
- 3UU: 4/4 Flying Haste + Draw a card.
Oracle of Bones
- 2RR: 3/1 Haste + Free cast instant/sorcery. (See the Unwritten anyone?)
(or)
- 2RR: 5/3 Haste + Draw a card.
And then probably my favorite:
Flame-Wreathed Phoenix
- 2RR: 3/3 Flying Haste + Returns to hand on death.
(or)
- 2RR: 5/5 Flying Haste + Draw a card.
It really desync's the balance in tribute. Most players would just pay it and then use a removal on it later and deny you the card advantage that comes from not paying tribute. But all of these creatures grow into 4+ power if tribute is payed, giving you card advantage on both tribute and nontribute paths, as well as giving everyone haste so opting to pay tribute makes sorc speed removal much less powerful against it.
One things for sure. I'f I ever sleeve up a Temur Ascendancy centered deck, no way I'm not playing a full set of Flame-Wreathed Phoenix. There is no bad options with that card while ascendancy is out.
One Drops:9
4 Soldier of the Pantheon
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
1 Forge Devil
Two Drops:6
3 Akroan Hoplite
2 Tymaret, the Murder King
1 Spiteful Returned
Three Drops:4
3 Eidolon of Countless Battles
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2 Timely Hordemate
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
Five Drops:2
2 Zurgo Helmsmasher
SPELLS: 16
One Drops:3
2 Despise
1 Thoughtseize
Two Drops:6
3 Raise the Alarm
3 Ride Down
4 Mardu Charm
3 Mardu Ascendancy
LANDS: 20
Tri Lands:4
4 Nomad Outpost
Dual Lands: 6
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Temple of Triumph
Basic Lands:10
4 Plains
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
Right off the top, I know some of these card's aren't budget friendly, but I own a singleton of Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Thoughtsieze and Purphoros, God of the Forge and have access to a few copies of Bloodsoaked Champion and Soldier of the Pantheon. Outside of those cards I need to keep the list very low budget, very much under $100 or so to finish the list.
That out of the way, where would you go to improve/tune this list? I plan on just taking it to the local FNM's with my friends/finally be able to play in the WBR wedge and not feel like I was trying to hodgepodge a bunch of goodstuff into a list and make it work. lol.
Pretty much the whole goal atm is to do as much early damage as possible, then close out the game with either Zurgo Helmsmasher, Purphoros, God of the Forge, or Tymaret, the Murder King.
It also sorta built up its own graveyard recursion mini-theme due to the inclusion of Bloodsoaked Champion, Tymaret, the Murder King and Timely Hordemate. This was unintentional at first but I grew to like the feel of it and built around it a little bit, and upped the card count on a few of them to make it more redundant.
Suggestions, comments, criticism?