MTG Salvation

For what it's worth, Pia Nalaar is a Human. There's some synergy with her and Tireless Tracker. Now you can get the +1/+1 counter on Tracker for just 1 mana, if preventing a block is more useful to your strategy than drawing a card. I like this sort of evasion, and the flexibility. I'm sure opponents will be in a surprise once in a while if you leave just one mana open.

Edit : Clues *are* artifacts.

Voltaic Brawler is an obvious choice for the deck too, it feels very strong.

I'm not sure Harnessed Lightning will be better than Incendiary Flow. The ability to exile certain creatures is really useful, as is burning the dome. Maybe Voltaic Brawler can sustain itself with just his own EE, using them on key turns (extra pump to survive, then another pump on the lethal attack). Spending E is not mandatory, and just the threat is sometimes enough to get throught unblocked.

Edit : Repel the Abominable may now be worth considering, depending on the meta. It not only prevents combat damage, but all damages. So it gives our Army protection from burn, Eldrazis, etc.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/729875-primer-naya-human-army

Me and hoser2 already discussed Naya Humans in this thread. CoCo will rotate out, and we'll discuss post rotation once all the new cards are spoiled. I invite you to join our thread (and avoid diluting Naya Human fan's attention over multiple threads).

Quote from Cronax »

Quote from Flipdipple »

Ok the thing is I could play a more efficient creature shell i. e. Eschewing the entire Dragon package for somewhat more efficient creatures. But, I feel splashing W gives the archetype an answer to the decks U/R spells has issues with and one that fares far better in the mirror. The Dragon package allows for a more efficient spell package and difficult to remove top end finisher's., thus not having to completely rely upon Vision's and chips with Thermo's. I suppose if you don't want me to discuss this further I'll not bother you anymore.

Another thing that makes your deck vastly different from what this thread is currently discussing is 1) you're not running Thermo-Alchemist around which this deck was built, since it gives extra value to the deck's spells and 2) a lot of the key cards in your version will rotate out at the end of the month whereas "our" version just loses an easily replaceable creature-burn card (Fiery Temper, replaced by Galvanic Bombardment) and baby-Jace for those who were running him.

To clarify, nobody is making a personal attack here. In Modern the different Abzan decks have their own threads because they work differently. In the same way your deck, although also U/R and with some spells in common, has such a different approach that at least personally I feel that the discussion for both decks should be separated.

Fully agree on that. @Flipdipple : Nobody here wants to be rude or bully you around. But your deck is so fondamentally different than ours in both strategies and playstyle that it will appeal to a completely different audience. While ours is burn heavy (a form of Aggro), yours is Control heavy (on the spell side, with Midrange creatures). If people in this thread are adept of burn-aggro, they may not be the best players to help and contribute to a more Control deck.

Really, you have invented a new deck : Jeskai Midrange Visions. You should either start a new thread, or add to a Jeskai Midrange thread.

Have fun!

Is it possible that to make Nahiri's Wrath more useful/reliable, some Madness spells need to be added to the SB and sided in along with it? Just the Wind only costs U with Madness, and is probably an ok spell anyway against a creature heavy deck. Opinions?

BTW, this is the deck I piloted...

Almost a perfect FNM...

2-0 vs RB Madness

2-1 vs Sultai Control : I lost 2nd game to some lifelink and I was mana flood. Castigator helped me won 3rd game, along with 2 x Fevered Visions (bounced 4 Times in my hand).

1-2 vs Bant CoCo : I easily won the first game, even if my Life got low. I just burned my way throught.

• Second game was lost to 3 x CoCo and 3 x Reflector Mage. I had two Thing in the Ice on the Battlefield when the first Mage hit me. I couldn't cast it back the next turn, and then TiTi #2 was bouced in my hand by Mage #2. I had two dead cards in my hand the following turn. When finally I managed my two TiTi the other turn, one got bounced again, and I was short one blocker to survive the final attack. I don't think anyone could have survived this triple duo CoCo/Mage.
• Third game... I was still at 20 and dropped opponent to 10. Everything was Going great, and I even had an amazing play of Fiery Impulse on Spell Queller, to get my Fiery Temper back and kill a second Spell Queller, and get TiTi back on the Battlefield. For a single mana, I wiped his board and created board presence! But then I got mana short (stuck at 3 lands), and could only try to survive. I held on to turn 10, but never saw my 4th land (out of 17 cards). I'm sure I would have won this game (opponent thought the same and told me so). I had 3 Collective Defiance at one point in my hand. With a fourth land, I could have controlled the Battlefield and burn the dome for 9 more damage way before opponent could kill me on turn 10. So sad... My deck betrayed me on the last game...

I wouldn't change a thing to the deck, but I learned two precious lessons :

1. Fevered Visions vs Bant CoCo... Side it out! It has too much lands and low mana cost, so it can easily get under 4 cards and avoid the burn from Visions. I was helping opponent more than myself on game 2.
2. Castigator needs to be sided in game 2 vs Control (I only did so for game 3).

Finally, I'm still wondering if I should have sided in Nahiri's Wrath vs Bant CoCo. I only played that card once vs GW tokens on Game Day, and I'm still traumatized by that experience. Haven't yet got the guts to try it again... Someone can give some advice on that card? To me, it always seem like I get a card disadvantage unless I had Fiery Temper to discard. That's very conditionnal. And getting a card disadvantage vs a deck that has so much card advantage seems pretty dumb. No?

Quote from hoser2 »

Thanks! I indicated core cards and wrote something for every card. The sideboarding and card comments need refinement, but I think it will still be an improvement and good enough for a first draft.

Done!

I just copy-pasted your Primer above my original post. I don't know however how to change the title of this thread to indicate it's now a primer...

Quote from hoser2 »

If you want to copy-paste my work to the OP and edit to your heart's content, including the deck characterization, I would be delighted. I characterized the deck as midrange very loosely and readily accept your characterization.

Got it. I don't have time right now, but will do so later today or tomorrow.

Quote from Narvuntien »

It has been consistantly inconsistant
Keep going 3-1 in matches, losing to completely different decks despite siding identically.

When the deck works it works amazingingly, visions locking people is brutal.
but getting mana flooded is the worst, I am not really sure what the solution to it is though.

There are a lot of games where I get someone to =< 3 then they get an attack in with vent/Kalatis or drop a Sorin and I draw lands and I can't finish them off. Or I take just too long and Emrakul.

The reason I don't use things like Goggles or big chandra or even the reveler is that I get to about 4 or 5 lands then start holding them in hand to get bonus off wheeling with collective defiance.

Decks I typically see in my meta
2 x GBx delirium
2 x BW control
1 x Mardu control
1 x Temur emerge
1 x Bant company
1 X thermo-thing
1 x Wx aggro

Any suggestions for sideboard changes?

Hi there, Machinegun Operators!

I've posted my list a few weeks ago, after winning Game Day. I've been away since then on vacation, but I'm glad to see the deck is still alive and well.

We have new ennemies in Sigarda, Heron's Grace and Orbs of Warding, but they're all things we can probably deal with if we Sideboard well.

I somewhat understand @Narvuntien comment about inconsistency, but all decks may suffer from that. I found out that Exquisite Firecraft was the MVP for me at Game Day. Yet, almost no other lists play the full playset, and most comments that I read here are about cutting the card from any deck lists. I beleive it might be the answer you're looking for. Doming these extra damages accelerate your victory to avoid Emrakul or situations where opponent just come back from a very low life total with Lifelink (Kalitas or Vents).

Here again is the deck I piloted at Game Day.


Yes, there's 16 3-cmc spells in the deck, and it is a lot for a bad spot on the mana curve. But 4 of these can be cast for 1 mana with Madness (Fiery Temper) and 4 more are usually not cast for 3 mana anyway (Collective Defiance). This leaves only 8 cards (Exquisite Firecraft and Fevered Visions) to be hard 3-cmc. This is just fine, I beleive, and it is amazing what good 4 direct damage can do. Exquisite Firecraft is an incredible top deck, and I encourage you people to try it out.

The deck is probably a bit slower with it, with less triggers per turn on Thermo or TiTi. But the power jammed in this single card more than make up for it, I think. It means that I have more main deck solutions to deal with Avacyn, Kalitas, fat Trackers, TiTi, etc. Also, one less Jace (for budget reasons) but an extra Lightning Axe helps against late Sylvan Advocates, Sigarda, etc.

Maybe I just got lucky on Game Day, but I don't beleive so. I'll run the deck again this Friday, and will post the results as soon as I can.

I yet have to learn to play Nahiri's Wrath (a bad card so far IMHO), and I would like to try Jori En, Ruin Diver (maybe instead of 1 Bedlam Reveler in the main). But I'm not certain it will be good until I get 5-6 mana on the table (unless I get lucky and cast Tormenting Voice + Fiery Temper) to cast the 2nd spell each turn. Bedlam gets casted with 4-5 mana most of the time anyway (and it's not much to get a 3/4 Prowess creature + draw 3 cards).

Note that because I play Exquisite Firecraft instead of other cards, my sideboarding strategies will differ from yours.

About SB options:

- vs Temur Emerge : +4 Fiery Impulse, -1 each of Jace, TiTi, Dispel and Unsubstantiate. Destroy their hosts for Emerging an Eldrazi, and you should win. Make good use of Incendiary Flow's exile ability to get rid of key creatures.
- vs GB Delirium : Same as above. Don't forget to redirect Fevered Visions damage to Liliana (opponent has no use of her +1 ability against us, so she'll die fast). Don't kill all their creatures you can block with your 0/3 or 0/4, or you'll feed their Delirium. If you just dome opponent with direct damage, you'll probably win the race. Ishkanah and her minions still need 3-4 turns to kill you. I ignored the Spider and continued with my plan and won vs that deck.

Great work, hoser2!!!

I was away on vacation for the past 2 weeks, or would have participated more in this thread. I like how you report your match ups!

The decks that you're matched up with however are a bit surprising, and not that much in the tier 1 metagame, right? I may be wrong, however...

At my store, the level of play is very competitive. About half of our 10-15 players delegation qualified for Day 2 at GP Toronto (Standard), and one in the group did 30-ish something (main event, 1000+ players). I failed myself to qualify for Day 2, but managed 1st at Sunday Super Series after tweeking the deck a bit. Recently, one regular player won a trophy at another major event (Modern), and another finished 2nd at GP Montreal and thus got an invite at PT Honolulu.

What I want to say is that I'm more likely to meet opponents who have copied tier 1 decks from MTG top8 than anything else at my store. I doubt I could get 4-0 with this deck against that kind of opposition, and it is why I turned to Izzet Machinegun for Game Day (the Johny in me had to tweek the deck list a lot to fit my style, but it served me well and I won 1st place). But rotation is around the corner, and I'm tempted to go back to this deck before we say goodbye to CoCo (and hopefully not farewell due to a ban because I have this very fine Modern Werewolf deck that relies on it). Probably not this week, but I'll post results if I go back to it next week.

Note : I doubt "Midrange" is appropriate to qualify this deck. Cancel, Wrath of God and Serra Angel are the staple cards of Midrange, and this deck doesn't have that feeling to it (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/370207/what-i-know-about-magic-gathering). It is definetly Aggro, but not in the weenie or burn style. More like Aggro with tempo (slower than super-aggro, but steady and getting fatter and wider as the game gets into turns 4+), with a Combo feel (high synergy with Humans and anthem effects, card advantage, and ability to threaten the board at instant speed and with double creatures). It is because this deck can play on the Combo Side of the clock that we can beat true Midrange decks (some creatures can get fat enough to escape Languish with the help of Heron's Grace Champion, and/or we can instantly come back in threatening range after a sweeper with CoCo, and/or deliver ridiculously high amount of damage out of nowhere). To me, the deck is Tempo-Tribal (tempo for its aggressivity, and tribal means high synergy that can emulate Combo).

Following these principles, Bant CoCo is probably Aggro-Control (thanks to Reflector Mage and the like with ETB effects), and Combo with CoCo and ETB creatures.

Quote from Apperz »

Hi all, never played this deck before, but can I ask how you play it against more aggro-style decks?

My local game store is full of aggro decks: white humans, black/red vampires, green/red werewolves and so on. I know the current meta is pretty slow and I can see how the bounce and burn works well against them. Being relatively new to Magic though, I'm curious as to how you use this deck to effectively control and punish the faster decks?

Thank you all in advance =)

Wasn't sure which thread to post in >.<

Kill their creatures one at a time. Eventually you should get a blocker to help resist longer, and/or card advantage (either with Collective Defiance to get value, Fevered Visions or Bedlam Reveler as a draw engine, or cycle your lands with Jace/Tormenting Voice). You win by grinding them out of their juice, and with Things in the Ice. Game 2 bring in Weaver of Lightning.

I added SB in previous post.

I've been toying with the idea of splashing Green for a Temur Machinegun deck. Mainly for Atarka's Command, as it is an amazing burn to the face, can prevent life gain (this kills us) or accelerate our play (land drop). Sage of Ancient Lore, along with Fevered Visions, is pretty exciting too!

But then, Sage is probably only win-more, and splashing Green just for Atarka's Command is probably not possible in a deck that wants to support U or RR on turn 3. *sigh* let's move on to something else...

More details in my matchups at Game Day :

GB Delirium : Win 2-0
Concentrate on burning the dome, or immediate threats. Delirium is not that fast, and if you refrain from playing creatures, half of their spells are useless. By the time Ishkanah hits the floor with her younglings, opponent should be in close to lethal range, even if he attacks 2-3 times with all spiders. Game 2, I was down to 5 life and opponent at 4. I top decked Exquisite Firecraft, and voilà! Opponent was not happy...

GW Tokens : Lost 1-2
Wasn't that deck supposed to be dead after Pro Tour? Anyway, opponent performed quite well, and destroyed me. I made a couple of mistakes, like not redirecting damage from Fevered Visions to the Planeswalkers. And opponent top decked a timely Tragic arrogance game 2.

Jund Delirium : Win 2-0
Pretty much the same as GB Delirium. Opponent's control cards were dead cards, and I made sure to side out Things in the Ice to remove targets. Won that, and cut to top4.

Izzet Machinegun : Win 2-0
I read on Reddit that in the mirror match, whoever casted first (or more) Fevered Visions would win. It was certainly true first game where I played one on turn 4 and another one on turn 5 (top decked both with Tormenting Voice on Fiery Temper on turn 3). Opponent had none, and couldn't race that clock.
Game 2, I played the first Visions on turn 3, and opponent immediately followed with his own Visions on his turn 4. Two turns later I added another one, but I was taking a beating from Thermo Alchemist (and thank God I was able to kill that TitI with Collective Defiance with one counter left on it). Opponent scared me by dropping my Life to 2, he was at 8. But thanks to all the card draws (3 Visions in play), I finished him with 2 x Exquisite Firecraft on 6 lands! To the final!

GW Tokens : Win 2-1
First game was a long and painful grind. Opponent made the mistake of not dealing with Fevered Visions with Dromoka's Command, but then he wouldn't have killed TitI. Dealing with the immediate threat was probably the right thing if he expected to kill me fast, but I used a couple Collective Defiance to deal with his board and redirected the damage to his Planeswalkers. I made a mistake too, when I forgot about using Fevered Visions' damage to kill Gideon. I had to chump block him with Bedlam Reveler next turn. Pretty sad, because I would have win the game faster and with far less pain. In the end, I dealt the last 10 points of damage in a single turn with Thermo Alchemist, Fiery Temper and Exquisite Firecraft (that one with Jace's minus ability just to play safe, but I had the spell in my hand anyway).
I lost game 2. I had no good discard with Tormenting Voice (and lost a good card with it, only to draw lands), and no better with Nahiri's Wrath. I had to discard Goldnight Castigator and a land to kill 2 Sylvan Advocates. I was top decking by turn 5 or 6, and obviously lost.
Game 3, I put Wrath back in the SB, along with Visions and Dispel. I was hoping to play the mind game where opponent would refrain on playing Dromoka's Command on anything else than Visions. In the end, I killed him unhindered, as he was completely color screw (4 Forest, and got 1 Plains on turn 5). Sad for him, but he won his Champion mat the Day before when I wasn't there. My turn!

Conclusion : Exquisite Firecraft won me soooooo many games that I would otherwise have lost with Fiery Impulse. That was a smart twist on an otherwise already good list.

Quote from sirjames333 »

Won my game day, ran the 9-1 pt list with a updated sideboard. Felt really good and never really out of any games. Hope you guys have some luck also!

Congratulations!

I won Game Day too (and don't get any ideas : Liliana is looking at *me*, not you ; God, that Champion mat is beautiful!). I was inspired by Pedro Carvalho's list, but changed a few things to fit my style. I posted my decklist in the other thread :

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/725610-u-r-spells?page=4#c77

Not sure where the discussion should continue. TBH, I'm surprised that Izzet Machinegun hasn't been upgraded to Proven or Established yet. It's clear this deck would have made top8 at PT if not for Pedro's bad Draft performance.

BTW, i defeated 2-0 my opponent in the mirror match in the semi-finals. I played well, I think, but also got lucky to cast the first Fevered Visions both games... And the second! The mirror can't handle the clock of double Fevered Visions, that's for sure. But then, game 2 was won with 2 x Exquisite Firecraft on 6 lands to deal the exact 8 points required to win. I would have lost next turn otherwise, being down to 2 life.

It was pretty satisfying that the card that won me the tournament is my own twist on the PT deck list.

So, Moderators? Where shall we continue this discussion? Or will you open up a thread in the Established forum?

I won Game Day with this list :



I played a 3rd Lightning Axe instead of Jace for budget reasons, but an Insolent Neonate could have done the job too (discard effect). But since I didn't want to play with Fiery Impulse in the main (full playset in SB), Axe was a good way to deal with big creatures (late game Advocate, Ishkanah, etc.), something Fiery Impulse can't do. Exquisite Firecraft was excellent, and I won games because of it. It's a bit slow at 3 cmc, but there's a lot of punch in that card.

I figured that focusing on strategy was better than be distracted by Dispel and Unsubstantiate, so I played only one of each. I replaced then with Bedlam Reveler. It was very good for me, and I was happy to have 2 in the main.

I only played 23 lands. Was too often flooded with lands at 24. And with so many draw engines, 23 didn't felt not enough.

Vs GB Delirium : win 2-0
Vs GW Tokens : lost 1-2
Vs Jund Delirium : win 2-0
Vs UR Machinegun : win 2-0
Vs GW Tokens : win 2-1

Have you ever thought about Sphinx Tutelage in the SB? Along with a few extra draw card engines? I'm seriously considering the Izzet Machinegun deck for Game Day, and I think it can mill out Delirium or Emerge decks quite fast, as they are themselves helping us out. Of course, it's pointless if both are already good matchups for us, but I kind of love the opportunity of transformational SB.

Here are the best 60 cards against Temurge, according to my playtesting (win rate of 65-75%).



The set of removals is particularly good to prevent Emerge on the small creatures. Tireless Tracker is prone to an early game KoRe, but it helps digging for our removals. Also, opponent will probably telegraph you KoRe is about to be played. Check his lands : no red, that's green light for us. If there are, and open lands on turn 3 or 4, you can try to play around. Like : cast Lieutenant before combat to force opponent to cast KoRe before the trigger resolves. You'll lose many creatures, but you'll at least keep the new tokens after you attack with Garrison (otherwise you would have less board presence after KoRe).

No anthem saddens me a lot. But the real thing is that it's more important dealing with Temurge's early creatures.

Declaration in Stone is great dealing with Spider tokens (and opponent gets no Clue), and Emerged Eldrazi.

I'll try to test GB Delirium tomorrow, and will post the results.

Note : no CoCo too for this matchup. It's more important to get the removals, than extending our board and give more value to KoRe or Elder Deep Fiend.