MTG Salvation

Ari Lax wrote a good Premium article about Modern matchups (including Humans) a few weeks ago on SCG. These Premium articles are unlocked after 14 days, so it's free to read now.

Also, Cedric Phillips’ article provides interesting arguments between two different lines of play vs Green Tron : Hierarch + Rider for 4 on turn 2? Or Vial + Meddling Mage and Hierarch on turn 2? I guess this article can trigger a 10+ posts storm here about what's the right line of play... my 2 cents : I would aim for Meddling Mage on T2 to name Sylvan Scrying, hoping to disrupt their whole plan. I've always been in favor of making sure they can't assemble the combo lands. After all, naming any of their threats or sweepers in the blind is a hard to win lottery (name Karn, they'll play Ugin ; name Oblivion Stone and they’ll play Walking Ballista, etc.).

Knight of New Alara is not good. We passed at Mayor of Avabruck, which is 2 mana and can take over a game by himself if flipped and unchecked. We’ll go back to Mayor before ever trying KNA.

Odric checks for Freebooter, Thalia and Mantis Rider to do something relevant, and at 4 mana. He’s an extra Rider when it’s already on the battlefield, and that could be good. But is that enough to make it worthy of a slot? It is indeed a win-more card, but that is no different than Kessig Malcontents. I hate putting Vial on 4, but it could be fun playing Odric at instant speed with Thalia in play, and wiping opponent’s board. Add deathtouch and lifelink, and I’m in!

A card that I think should make a comeback in the main deck is Thalia, Heretic Cathar. More first strike to face aggro is good, as is tapping their new creatures. Less blockers play into our aggressive plan, and denying haste is awesome. What’s more is she can slow down our current predators : Tron, KCI and CoCo. All of Tron’s lands will ETB tapped, and that’s a huge set back. Not only Wurmcoil Engine will be cast a turn later, it won’t even be able to block on that delayed turn! KCI needs 4 lands to starts its engine. Delay that for a turn, and we may get to win before they do. Same for CoCo, with extra bonus that instant speed creatures from CoCo or Chord can’t ambush our attackers, and that all their fetchlands are doubled punished (fetchland ETB tapped, and fetched land will also ETB tapped if they can’t get a basic).

Add baby Thalia to the deal, and not only are we taxing KCI and CoCo to 5 mana, but also making sure they can’t do so on the 5th land drop! Same reasoning for Ugin and Karn : both will cost 8, but Tron won’t be able to tap for that much mana until turn 5 (instead of turn 3).

Big Thalia can also be very annoying for Control. Tapped Snapcaster means one more attacker gets through. And their tapped lands delay Cryptic Command, their sweepers and PWs for a full turn, plus making chaining removals and Snapcaster impossible until turn 5.

As much as I believe the crowd that Restoration Angel is good, I don’t think it can do that much good for us in these difficult matchups.

Militia Bugler will be a strong contender to take Big Thalia’s spot. But can it do so much for us in these matchups? Card advantage is good as long as we haven’t lost already, and time to cast extra spells is a luxury we generally don’t have vs our predators.

Greatest MTG article of all time :
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/370207/what-i-know-about-magic-gathering

Humans sits on the Aggro side of the clock, a prey to Combo and Midrange. We thrived for as long as these weren’t too pushed in the metagame. BTW, sweepers are Midrange cards, so Jeskai Control really is Midrange (they play removals, not permissions). Tron is both Combo and Midrange.

To fight Combo and Midrange, we have to play more Control cards (Combo and Midrange’s predator). Big Thalia’s disruption fits that role (akin to permission). Resto Angel and Malcontents don’t (they’re enhancing our aggressivity, but that’s not where we’re weak). Confidant and Bugler’s card advantage is only great for the long game. But do we want to even get there? It’s where our predators are at their best.

TLDR : No to Odric and Knight of New Alara. No to Angel, Malcontents, Confidant and Bugler. Big Thalia is what we need in the current metagame, at least 2. And probably the 4th Baby Thalia (Illusion or RefMage down to 3?).

Quote from zetabass »

Hey, I just had a conversation about the deck with another local player that I respect who is playing it at the upcoming GP.
He is very adamant about running with 18 lands... Seems wild to me as I know how often I'm having to mulligan for lands at 19.

Anyone tried a league out with 18? Could the top decked gas percentage really worth the risk of having to mull to oblivion.
FWIW he is cutting the 2nd SCC.

18 lands feel very wrong to me. I've done some really serious maths over this, including Monte Carlo simulations of what are keepable hands, and what's not. First, you have to realise that Humans doesn't take mulligans very well. IT IS NOT THE TYPE OF DECK THAT YOU MULLIGAN AGGRESSIVELY WITH. In fact, you should avoid a mulligan with Humans, unless your hand is downright unplayable. By that I mean :

• No land
• One land, no Vial (or a non-castable Vial, because Ziggurat) and less than 2 castable one-drops with that single land (ex. : Seachrome Coast with two Hierarch is not good).
• Two+ lands, and less than 2 creatures that are castable with these lands and that can be played in the first 3 turns. Ex. #1 : 3 lands with 4 three-drops is not very good, because you'll play only one creature per turn starting turn 3 and this is too slow for Modern's metagame. Ex. #2 : Two Canopy, 2 Freebooter and/or Meddling Mage, and 3 three-drops... you just can't cast a card AT ALL with this hand ; even if a Coast replaces a Canopy, only the Meddling Mage is playable, and the rest is probably dead cards for some time. This is a hand that can make you lose a game.

With these requirements, only 75% of all 7-cards hands are keepable. This number is not very good, and Humans are prone to have bad starting hands (most of the time because of zero or one-landers). If you mulligan, only 40% of 6-cards hands are keepable (which is an insanely low number). Scry will help, and you shouldn't be picky on 6 cards, because the odds go downhill from there. Mulligan to 5 only if the 6 cards are REALLY bad. And never mulligan down to 4, even if you have no lands (or just lands) in your 5-cards hand. The odds of top decking what you need are better in that case than of having a keepable 4-cards:

• With 5-cards, only lands ; creatures density is very high in the library : 90% chance of top decking a creature, because of Scry 1. And you're 75% likely to draw 2 creatures in the first two turns. Following that metric, a 6-cards hand that is 100% lands is probably better to keep and scry 1 than mulligan down to 5 (the above odds are only better, because there's one less land in what's left of the library).
• With 5-cards, and no lands (and some one-drops) ; land density is very high in the library : You'll get a land on the top deck 58% of the time, thanks to Scry 1. You'll hit land #2 43% of the time in the first 3 turns (on the draw), also thanks to Scry 1. These odds are not great, but they're better than having keepable 4-cards. This is a game you're likely to lose anyway, so go with the better odds and keep.

That being said, mulligan is not only bad because odds of keepable hands are increasingly low the less cards you have. But because with less cards come less synergy, something that Humans needs. Champion and Lieutenant are worse, Meddling won't be preceded by Freebooter, Rider won't be exalted by Hierarch, etc.

Avoiding mulligan becomes primordial for Humans pilot. With odds so low of having keepable 7, and mulligan being so bad for us (because of synergy), it is suicidal, IMHO, to go below 19 lands. Keepable hands will be even more rare, and you don't want to reduce an already low number (some other decks have keepable 7-cards in the 90% range).

Of course, you still have to mulligan about 25% of the time, so you should work to recognize the unkeepable hands. In my case, I never ever assume top deck will save my starting 7 (but I'll go with that assumption if I mulligan). These cards, by themselves, have to put two Humans in play by the end of turn 3, that's my law. If they can't achieve that, that's probably a mulligan. 4 Mantis Rider, 2 Lieutenant and one land is really bad, even if it's explosive if things go well. Five lands and 2 three-drops is probably bad too. One land, a Vial, and no one-drop is unkeepable IMHO (because the best you can do is play a two-drop from Vial on turn 3, and then you're at the mercy of having the right number of counters on Vial to play the rest). If that fits the definition of mulliganing aggressively, then so be it. In my opinion, it just means that I don't want to be relying on the top deck to have functional hand.

If it can convince your friend : he'll crack Canopy far less often on 18 lands, because he won't have the extra mana to do so. So that makes Canopy a worse card, and you don't that. Finally, your friend should trust the whole Modern community who has tested the deck and universally beleive 19 lands is the right number.

I've done my homeworks, and I'll admit right away that I was probably wrong believing Reflecting Pool was a suitable replacement for Seachrome Coast #2. Here are the cases where Pool is definitely worse than Coast :

• One-lander with Vial or 2+ white one-drops (Champion, usually).
• Two/Three-lander with Vial, and non-Pool land(s) is/are Ziggurat.
• Two/Three/Four-lander, with non-Pool land(s) is/are Canopy and/or Plains, along with blue creature spells (Meddling Mage, Phantasmal Image, Deputy of Acquittals, Reflector Mage).

I've run about 300.000 simulations. Keepable hands need a minimum of 3 creatures, 2 of which that can be played in the first 3 turns with the ressources in opening hand (Vial, lands and considering their colored-mana production). All in all, about 1.85% of all hands are worse with Pool instead of Coast #2 (from totally not keepable to just plain worse). This means one game out of every 20 matches (2.5 games per match). We don't know if this would have been translated into a loss, however.

I don't have the numbers, but I’m pretty sure the odds of needing Pool's color fixing or needing an untapped Pool on turn 4+ (instead of Coast) are not that great, except post-SB, in particular matchups where the cards that are fixed by Pool are needed. The odds of that happening are most probably extremely low compared to the above number.

Case closed, IMHO... Unless we start running main deck 4-drops (like Whirler Rogue and Restoration Angel), in which case some extra maths will be required. We're not there yet, however.

Quote from Pokken »

Man, rec sage seems too slow and too awkward. We do have 8 green sources functionally plus hierarchs, but I'd almost rather just play a mix of war priests. As narrow as war priest is, it's a mana quicker which means it might be fast enough to stop a good bogles draw on turn 2. And it's a human.

Devout Chaplain might be worth trying too as the matchups where we really need to kill an enchantment we'll normally able to keep a board but not close out (e.g. Bogles, Affinity, Worship decks, etc.).

Unclaimed Territories and Cavern of Souls can name Elf, if we don't have Ziggurat, Canopy or Hierarch to cast Reclamation Sage. So it shouldn’t be too hard to cast it. In an environment with no serious enchantments to hate, Vithian Renegades was the right solution vs artifacts. Now that Boggles is back to Tier 1, Reclamation Sage is probably a better « one size fits all » solution to both Boggles and Lantern/Affinity.

I'm wondering, however, if Ratchet Bomb wouldn't be a better choice. It can kill all tokens right away (if Mardu Pyromancer decks make a come back), and all 1-Mana Auras the turn after it's played (doing this most likely removes Daybreak Coronet too, because it becomes illegal). It doesn't deal well with Lantern/Affinity, and destroying all 1cmc non-land permanents will hurt us too... so we're probably back to Reclamation Sage being the best choice.

@zetabass : No, Reclamation Sage wasn't discussed here, as far as I recall.

Quote from massch »

I played three Deputy of Acquittals at my FNM this friday.
Hadn't draw it a lot, and could never make a big turn around with it. Never could made it a 2 for 1.
One time I played a Noble Hierarch, Deputy of Acquittals my Noble Hierarch and played the Noble Hierarch back for the win by putting counters on the Champion of the Parish and Thalia's Lieutenant.
It never feels like its a card you don't want.
I hope I can do more tricks with it on my next FNM.

What do you mean by : « Never could made it a 2 for 1 »? Is it that you didn't get to play it in response to a removal? Or because opponent worked around the bounce trigger? I'm glad that you felt it never was a card you didn't want.

The trick with Deputy bouncing Hierarch to cast it again for extra triggers on Lieutenant and Champion has also been good for me last time I played the deck. Got to lethal with it.

I guess there will be situations where not attacking with a 1/1 Lieutenant (played the turn before) and instead bounce it with Deputy to get more counters on all other Humans will be worth it. Same with Reflector Mage, or a Freebooter that fizzled.

One trick that I expect to pull off vs Aggro is to bounce a blocking creature. Soaking damage this way while not losing a card and getting more triggers will probably be game winning in some matchups. Ex. : block Gurmag Angler with Reflector Mage, play Deputy of Acquittals to bounce RefMage, only to play it ASAP to bounce the 5/5 Delve (hopefully on a near empty graveyard). But watch out if attacking creature had Trample...

Note that this trick will blank Lifelink, if it matters. It probably will be useful against Boggles, Vault Skirge, Wurmcoil Engine and the like, as they could have calculated that a big lifelink attack would protect them from dying next turn.

An attacking Human blocked by a Kitchen Finks or a Lifelink creature can be bounced too. And in certain case, it's the only thing that will make attacking profitable. It can even be game winning!

Quote from zetabass »

I just had a thought that had never occurred to me before.... Anafenza shutting off Scooze... It's a wonder I don't lose every game of magic I play.

One of the reason I prefer to go with 1 Anafenza the Foremost and 1 Grafdigger’s Cage in my SB, instead of 2 Cage. There are matchups where Anafenza is really useful. She dodges Lightning Bolt, Anger of the Gods and blanks Scavenging Ooze's ability against Jund, where Cage would never have been a card we would have wanted to side in. She also adds +1/+1 counters to other creatures, and this may help them too getting out of range of Bolt and Anger...

Here's my updated list :
Still testing Mangara. Could be Malcontents or Big Thalia in that spot (or Dark Confidant, if I decide to invest 100$ in that card).

I didn't have much success playing Grixis Energy at Store Championship yesterday. I was more hyped on Modern lately, and started playing Standard just 2 days ago. I didn’t know the deck, forgot triggers, made mistakes, and had no experience of the format's metagame (I read articles, I had the knowledge, but not the experience). But I played against a guy who is probably one of the best player at our LGS, who’s on Grixis Energy too, and we talked a lot. That was very enlightening, and I just want to share a bit of his wisdom here...

• Fatal Push is a better removal than Magma Spray. Too many creatures can survive 2 damage burn spells, and we don't want to exile too many future targets for The Scarab God's ability anyway. Chump blocking with a Thopter is a good way to trigger Revolt anyway, and this makes the case for full playset of Whirler Virtuoso.
• Glint-Sleeve Siphoner on turn 2 is more important than a removal.
• Supreme Will's primary use is to protect Siphoner from a removal of turn 3, as this will put us ahead very fast.
• Glimmer of Genius is not only draw 2, but also 2 more energy to spend on Siphoner's ability (a 3rd card). Passing the turn with 4 lands untapped is also quite threatening, because of Vraska’s Contempt. That should change opponent’s intended play, and offer a window to cast Glimmer.
• No rush to cast The Scarab God. It should be the last card you play, unless you have nothing useful to do otherwise. This because it is pointless to cast it on empty graveyards, and because you want opponent to spend their removals on anything else you cast before. Once Scarab Gob hits the field, we'll be too busy with our mana activating its ability to cast most of our cards anyway. Because of this, overloading on spells that cost 2 is very important, as they can be played on top of God's ability. And 4 cmc instants like Glimmer and Contempt are important too, because is you have God and pass the turn with 4 untapped lands and cards in your hand, the possibilities are endless. Thus, Liliana and Confiscation Oup are really not well positioned to help our strategy.
• Torrential Gearhulk #2 is more important than Vraska's Contempt #4. It can cast a Contempt from the graveyard anyway, and it's body is not only a 4 turns clock, but can survive Glorybringer's fire and block other Gearhulks, Scarab God, Hazoret, Rhonas, 4/4 Zombies, etc.

I'm struggling with the manabase. I want to support BB and RR for Contempt/Chandra on T4, and UU for Coup/Gearhulk on T5/6. Ideally, this means 18 BR and 16/15 U ressources (for 90% odds of casting on curve). The best I've come up with is this :

• 4 Aether Hub
  
• 4 Canyon Slough
  
• 4 Dragonskull Summit
  
• 4 Drowned Catacomb
  
• 4 Fetid Pools
  
• 4 Spirebluff Canal
  
• 2 Mountain

This manabase provides 21 B, 18 R and 16 U. There are 10 Swamp/Mountain for Dragonskull Summit, but only 8 Swamp/Island for Drowned Catacomb. This translates into 89% and 81% chances of playing one of these two check-land untapped on T4.

Question is : Would it be better to add a Swamp and remove a Spirebluff Canal in order to have more basics to look at for my check-lands to ETB untapped? This at the cost of less reliable T4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance and T5 Confiscation Coup for color considerations? Or would they be more reliably cast on curve because check-lands are more likely to ETB untapped?

I would have liked to squeeze in some Evolving Wilds to trigger Fatal Push's Revolt, but the opportunity cost of losing the Cycle Lands seems too great. To play the check-lands untapped, I would be forced to fetch a Swamp (which doesn’t fix my color needs). Or a Mountain to play Dragonskull Summit, combination of both doesn’t fix my U needs (same goes for Island and Drowned Catacomb vs R needs). In the end, either Fatal Push doesn't make the cut, or it does but with no real hope of triggering Revolt. Opinion?

This is the list I will most probably register for the Store Championship (Gameday) :

No River's Rebuke in the SB. It's a lot slower than Fiery Cannonade, so I'll rely on this small sweeper to keep Aggro and Tokens in check. Main deck Consign//Oblivion and Commit//Memory should help deal with resolved enchantments and artifacts, as well as anything Vraska's Contempt was designed for.

Quote from deaddrift »

Quote from patbou »

As a side note, I realized today that, when you cast Lieutenant and opponent has only one mana, and you hold priority while its ability is on the stack to activate Vial, if opponent lets Vial’s activation resolve and you drop a Thalia, there’s nothing opponent can do.

Note you are not holding priority when you activate Vial after casting a Lieutenant. Instead, you respond to the Lieutenant's ETB trigger after it resolves.

Right, that’s what I meant. But to make it clear, you don’t respond to the ETB ability, because that’s opponent’s privilege when you forfeit priority. Rather, you effectively have to say that you’re holding priority right after the ETB ability goes on the stack, and use that opportunity to activate Vial. If you ever ask opponent if they do something in response to the ETB ability of Lieutenant, it means you will have no choice but to let the ability resolves if opponent declares they do nothing (you don’t get priority back). Under tournament rules, it is assumed that you never hold priority unless you specifically say otherwise.

Ex: You have a 2/2 Lieutenant, then cast another Lieutenant. Opponent has one Steam Vent untapped, and somehow decides he won’t Bolt 2/2 Lieutenant right now, but will let the spell resolves and do so while the ETB ability is on the stack. That’s when you keep priority to activate Vial and play Thalia, making it impossible for opponent to cast Bolt now. Based on a true story.

Of course, that was probably the wrong way to play, both from my part and opponent’s. He could have cast Bolt while Lieutenant was on the stack, or while Vial’s activation was on the stack. And I should have either cast Thalia to force Bolt and « counter » it with Vial and Lieutenant #2, or activate Vial first and hope opponent won’t cast Bolt in the blind, then play Thalia from Vial and follow up by casting Lieutenant #2.

Quote from deaddrift »

Great play report!

Do I understand that you cast Lieutenant, then respond to her ETB trigger by Vialing in Hierarch, and that way both creatures get +1/+1 counters? Does Lieutenant trigger on an empty board? I did not know about this interaction, seems pretty relevant.

Didn't see the Miracle in-hand steal or block move either. Seems to me you've got a pretty firm grasp of the mechanics of this deck, my thanks for sharing your insight.

It's as you say :

• Cast Lieutenant. It resolves, then its triggered ability goes on the stack on an empty board. Hold priority*.
• Activate Vial and put Hierarch (or any other Human) on the battlefield. This triggers Lieutenant's second ability.
• The second trigger resolves first, and Lieutenant receives a counter.
• Then the first trigger resolves, and Hierarch (or else) receives a counter.

* About priority : It's really important that you don't ask your opponent if he wants to do something while Lieutenant's first ability is on the stack. If you do, it's assumed that you give priority to the opponent. If he does nothing, you can't activate Vial before the ability resolves.

Because of the « hold priority » restriction, I think it's important you only do this trick while opponent is tapped out, empty handed, or otherwise you know he can't disrupt your play.

Take note also that this trick works well with Humans with Flash, like Izzet Staticaster and Heron's Grace Champion. At any time, you can use Vial to put Lieutenant on the battlefield, and then use your mana to cast a Human at instant speed while Lieutenant's ETB ability is on the stack. Works well too with two Vials.

I'm not 100% sure how to intercept a Miracle during the draw step. I'll ask the question in the appropriate forum, and come back with the answer.

3-0 tonight at LGS (14 players), with this list :



Mana Confluence is only there because Ancient Ziggurat #4 is still in the mail. I was happy with Reflecting Pool, and it didn’t failed me (yet). I didn’t dare play the full set of Meddling Mage, but that's only because I feel I don't know the format well enough to name the right cards with it. Four Thalia, Guardian of Thraben has always seemed to me quite ambitious, because of the legendary rule. I swapped these two for Kytheon, Hero of Akros, and one Reflector Mage for Thalia, Heretic Cathar. They don't serve the same purpose, but I felt big Thalia could somewhat do the job of removing blockers (just like Reflector Mage), with the upside of disrupting opponent’s tempo and be seriously good against Tokens (Lingering Souls and/or Young Pyromancer) and Bloodbraid Elf.

I'm not sure if Kytheon was the right call, but I was happy with big Thalia.

The first two matchups were against Eldrazi Hatebear. I won each 2-0. Kitesail Freebooter on T2 allowed me to cast well informed Meddling Mage on T3, 3 out of these 4 games. I learned that Restoration Angel and Eldrazi Displacer cannot prevent Phantasmal Image from copying anything, and opponent probably learned that copies would have died to Displacer, if only he tried to.

I won the « final » vs UW Jace Miracles (my LGS always stops after 3 rounds, sadly ; there were enough players to warrant a 4th round).

• Game 1, on the draw, I mulliganed to 6 because I had no 1-drop. Even then, my hand was very awkward : Vial, Hierarch and 4 lands. I top decked a Lieutenant, and played Vial on T1. T2 with Lieutenant and Hierarch from Vial (both with a counter). T3, I played another Hierarch and attacked with Lieutenant for 5. I then played cautiously, keeping Mantis Rider in my hand and repeatedly attacked for 5 until opponent conceded without top decking a Miracle.
• I sided in 2 Gaddock Teeg, 1 Notion Thief and 1 Heron's Grace Champion (only because of Flash), and out 2 Kytheon and 2 Reflector Mage.
• Game 2, I seriously flooded out, and suffered a Field of Ruin on Cavern of Souls + triple Path to Exile (and no more basic land to fetch). Supreme Verdict later, and I had left were 3 Vials. Celestial Colonnade and Entreat the Angels took care of the rest.
• Game 3 was just perfect. I kept a hand with Coast, Vial, Champion, 2 Lieutenants and 2 Riders. After T1 Vial, and Champion EOT on T2, I luckily top decked a land on T3. Lieutenant got Remand, but I played it again with Vial, and attacked for 3. Detention Sphere removed Champion, and on my T4 I played Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (top decked) + Rider with Vial, and attacked for 6. He passed the turn with 4 untapped lands, and I top decked my 3rd land on T5. I figured opponent couldn’t do anything to prevent me from winning this turn (because of Thalia, even Cryptic Command wasn't possible), and I didn’t dare play cautious because Supreme Verdict could hit me next turn if he land dropped. So I played 2 more Riders (in case one got removed) and attacked for 16. Win!

What I haven't considered is that opponent had enough mana to cast Opt (for 2) and Miracle Terminus (for 2) to sweep my board at instant speed. It didn't happened, luckily. I could have attacked with what I had (for 8) to get him down to 2 life, take Supreme Verdict next turn, and follow up with the two Riders next turn.

A few things about Miracles : while the Miracle trigger is on the stack, the card itself (Terminus, Entreat the Angels, etc.) is in opponent's hand. So with Vial set on 2, if opponent lets you resolve the ability, you can put Kitesail Freebooter, Meddling Mage or Gaddock Teeg and probably disrupt the spell.

I didn’t get to play with Kytheon enough to have a firm opinion. I guess I’m just too careful with him around, and fear attacking with him if I don't have the mana to make him indestructible. Still learning the card within this deck... We'll see in a week or two if I keep Kytheon in the deck, or not.

I've done some maths with Noble Hierarch. It's a tricky card to add, because :
A) it's not an Ally and will decrease the odds of reliable CoCo.
B) it's an accelerator, and increases the odds of having enough mana to cast CoCo on 3 lands.
C) it acts as Vial 5+, and increases the odds of keeping a one-lander (less mulligans).

In the end, the best numbers are :
2 Noble Hierarch
19 Lands (remove 1 Encampment)
28 Allies (Envoy, Freeblade, Druid, Blademaster, Battlesinger, Shapeshifter and Evangel)
3 flex spots for other Allies
8 instant speed package (Vial and CoCo)

With this configuration (compared to 20 lands and 4 flex spots for Allies, no Hierarch), the odds of casting CoCo on turn 3 are increased from 33% to 42% (+27% chance). CoCo is a little bit less reliable if you want to hit 2 Allies (fizzle 8%, instead of 6.5% ; so +23% fizzle), but will hit 2 creatures more often (Hierarch is a creature). But because Hierarch acts a little bit like Vials 5-6 for acceleration purpose (explosion is our main win condition), and because it helps against Ensnaring Bridge and Blood Moon, I believe it is a good trade off.

I hope to test this out tomorrow... Edit : forget that about tomorrow's testing. It's Valentine's Day!

Each Annointed Peacekeeper adds a tax separately so if you name Anger of the Gods twice then it should cost 5RR to cast Anger of the Gods. If the situation is as you described then it would be a bug, but without a screenshot or gamelog it's hard to see whether they had some other mana maker, cost reducer, or even if one of the Peacekeepers had been a misclick on the wrong thing.

Quote from patbou »

PART ONE :

Say I have Secluded Courtyard in play, naming Human. Can I use it to produce colored mana for the purpose of casting an Adventure, if the creature's part is Human? For example, produce W to cast Usher to Safety, which is the Instant part of Shepherd of the Flock?

I've searched the rules, and found this : "Adventure spells only exist on the stack. In all other zones, the characteristics of an adventure are ignored; only the characteristics of the creature card apply."

This seems to mean that the card is considered a Human in my hand, and thus could tap Secluded Courtyard to cast it, whatever part of the card I wish to cast. But this seems to be contradicted by : "When casting an adventurer card as an Adventure, only the alternative characteristics are evaluated to see if it can be cast."

I guess I can't use Secluded Courtyard that way (or Unclaimed Territory, or Cavern of Souls), but I really want to make certain before I miss a precious interaction I'm not aware of.

The first thing you do whan casting a spell, is to put it on the stack. And as you said, on the stack, the adventure card only has the characteristics of the Adventure half (or the creature half if you are casting that one, of course). The Adventure is not a [creature type], so any such lands and cards with similar restrictions on using the mana they produce, cannot be used to pay for that spell.

PART TWO :

I play Hostage Taker to kidnap a Bonecrusher Giant. While in exile, can I cast the Adventure part of the spell? And if I do, will I be able to follow up by casting the creature part of the spell to put a 4/3 on the battlefield under my control? Will I have to pay the exact mana cost of 2R, or the Hostage Taker's ability still apply and I can pay with any mana? Does this change of zone (from the exile of Hostage Taker to the exile of the Adventure) means that my opponent retakes control of the card and I can't cast the creature, but my opponent can?

Yes, you can cast the Adventure or the creature while the card is still exiled by Hostage taker, and you can spend mana as any type for that spell. But once it leaves exile, which is does when you cast the card, it is no longer exiled by Hostage Taker. So when casting the Adventure first, you can spend mana freely regardless of type, and you have to pay the normal cost for the creature when you want to cast that one later, after it gets exiled again by the Adventure. Which yes, you can do, it may be your opponent's card, but you sent it on the Adventure, so you (and only you) get to cast the creature from it.

PART TWO-POINT-ONE :

Sub-question to the above : What happens if I use Hostage Taker to kidnap a flipped Reflection of Kiki-Jiki? I guess I can cast the saga, but what happens on stage III? Will it exile and come back as a creature under my control? Or under my opponent's control?

Yes, you can cast the saga. And read the card: it says to return it under your control.

The legend rule removes all but one of your Niambis before the ETB trigger can even make it to the stack, since the legend rule is a state based action, which are checked right after the Niambi spell resolves. You can't even target the one already on the field, since that is part of putting the trigger on the stack, if you choose to keep the new one that is. If you keep the old one, then the trigger can target it and return it to hand before your opponent's removal resolves, but you won't have the new one anymore.

Dennick is unable die, due to its own ability.

Kalitas' difference from Dennick isn't that it is not "not a leaves the battlefield ability", but that it is an ability creating a replacement effect. Leaves-the-battlefield abilities are a class of triggered abilities. Kalitas gets to apply because it applies before it leaves the battlefield. Dennick does not because, as a triggered ability, it can only apply after the event - in which it leaves the battlefield, and doesn't apply for that reason.

If Charming Prince's ability exiles a creature during an end step (e.g., after Charming Prince reentered the battlefield due to Extraction Specialist), that card will get to return to the battlefield "at the beginning of the next end step" after this one, whenever that is, even if that's another player's end step (C.R. 513.2, 603.7; see also C.R. 603.7b and 614.10a). See also:

- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/800149-detection-tower-after-the-beginning-of-the-end
- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/804811-lifeline-weatherseed-treefolk
- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/815838-roon-and-charming-prince

Note that the beginning of a step or phase (such as "the next end step" or "your upkeep") is a single moment in time, at the point that that step or phase begins. That's when an ability that triggers "at the beginning of" that step or phase can trigger (C.R. 603.2b, 608.3).

See also:

- https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgrules/comments/uvcqip/poppet_stitcher_upkeep_trigger/
- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/815559-cabal-therapist
- https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgrules/comments/6q5ry3/beginning_of_end_step_question/

A creature that would die, but is exiled instead, doesn't go to the graveyard (C.R. 700.4, 614.6).

Notably, Dennick's second ability won't trigger if a creature is exiled, even if that creature would otherwise go to the graveyard.

If Dennick leaves the battlefield at the same time as one or more creature cards go to a graveyard, Dennick's second ability won't trigger. This is because it cares whether certain cards go to a graveyard "from anywhere", so it's not a leaves-the-battlefield ability (and not otherwise an exception to C.R. 603.10), so that it checks the state of the game after the event, and not before (C.R. 603.10, 603.10a, 603.6c). With respect to Kalitas, see also:

- https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-rulings/789423-anafenza-question

Vigilance only matters when attackers are declared during the declare attackers turn based action. Any such attacker will not get tapped when declared as attacker. But for entering attacking it's irrelevant. As is entering tapped or untapped. Still attacking.

No, I don't ever want to pay 4 mana for 3 damage and I don't ever want to pay 5 for 6 damage.

M20 Chandra might have been worth it if it said you cast without paying (probably would have played 2, honestly). I don't want to pay 4 mana to recur a bolt and then 5 total for 2 of them. You have to be flooding to even play it (need 4 lands in play), otherwise you pay 3 mana to roll it up and do nothing, hope it lives a turn, and then get some use out of it. Cool card, but not good enough.

But between Thalia and Freebooter, I'm often confused which one to play first. Thalia is probably the right one, as her tax has more impact in the early game than later, and if she anyway attracts a removal, there's more chance Freebooter will properly resolve and/or stay on the battlefield for longer time. Opinions?

Depends on the MU really. And whether we're talking about a T2 or T3 play : sometimes you're on one land with a Vial and the 2-drop will etb on T3.
VS Ad Naus, they generate enough mana so Thalia could be useless, while FreeB played first could strip their wincon. Thalia would be better just before the turn they can go off, in order to screw their mana math, while FreeB gives intel and opens to a Med Mage against a card they may cast for the win later (sometimes it appears it's better to name Lotus Bloom rather than Ad Nauseam because they're really low on mana, for example).
VS Affinity, FreeB has the possibility to prevent Signal Pest from attacking and can take a Cranial Plating before it etb. Thalia is bad in the MU.
VS Living End, Thalia is priority because FreeB won't be able to stop multiple cascade spells.

And so on. The baseline in mdirange / control MUs is to play Thalia first, because she's legendary (a 2nd copy will be easier to play if the opp deals with the 1st one), she can screw opp's mana, she's a better beater, she's a removal magnet that protects following threats, etc...

do you favor an early or late Lieutenant? I mean, do you aim to make it a very big creature, or to spread counters on as many creatures as possible?

It has to be considered as a Champion of the Parish against midrange and control decks, for the most part. Also post-SB, against combo decks that bring removal spells in, you know the one card they're gonna target is your Med Mage for example, so it makes no sense to grow it while you won't even be able to attack through their blockers. Say you name Collected Company, you better play Lieutenant first and grow it. Your utility Humans will be removal magnets and indirectly protect your big fat Lieutenant. I saw pro players suboptimally slow roll their Lieutenant and waste counters all over the place.

It's the same decision you make when you cast Champion before Noble Hierarch. Those two plays are apparently the most difficult ones to make amongst the basics of the archetype, because I see players make the suboptimal play all the time.

Pumping a Med Mage, a Thalia, a FreeB, an Image, etc... each pump must make some sort of sense in the MU. It makes sense to slow Roll Lieutenant when you face creatures that will stall the ground, and where pumping a flyer will be important. But it may also be more important to slowly and painfully grow your Lieut to break a stalled ground at some point, because it's the only one creature that will be ever able to do it in the game.

what do you do if you top deck a Vial on turn 2? Say you kept a hand with a ton on two-drops... You delay your spell to cast Vial anyway? Or you just ignore it for now and you'll play it on turn 3+ along with a two-drops when you get to land #3 (or untap with Hierarch)?

Once again, MU dependant. Say you play VS Ponza, I believe you want your Vial high priority on T2 and ignore your 2-drops. VS Burn, don't you fear Eidolon of the Great Revel so Vial would be key not to take a million damage ?

Your questions are very interesting and there's no baseline to follow, it's always wrong to think a card has always priority over another one in this deck, it systematically depends on what you face.