Where would you all say Jund sits on the tier list right now? I'm looking to pick the deck back up again but the last two times I tried I just felt like I was always playing at a disadvantage.
My intention with my post wasn't to try to campaign to convince others whether or not to enjoy Dredge, nor am I even remotely offended. I tried to use hyperbole to emphasize my point in how I feel underpowered in the matchup, but maybe that wasn't the best introduction. I came here instead of the Humans forum because they've discussed the matchup already, but I wanted to get perspectives from the other end of the table rather than echo chamber the same ideas we've brought up before. Catch a strategy or idea I may have been missing by exploiting the opponent's weakness rather than bolstering myself. Either way, it seems Cage isn't the all-star I thought it was. Thanks for your input.
@ TheLoneN00b - First, a more tactful way of asking your question would be along the lines of, "I love playing Humans, but find my Dredge matchup very difficult. Can anyone please provide insight on if Grafdigger's Cage is an effective sideboard card or ideal targets for Meddling Mage?" Try to remember, just because you hate an archetype doesn't mean others should to. Second, I would think the Humans thread would be a much better place to seek advice as they are more likely to know your lines of play instead of Dredge players spitballing ideas without any solid context of the intricacies of your deck. Third, Grafdigger's Cage is annoying, but doesnt stop the Dredge mechanic or Creeping Chill; I just wait until I'm ready for a big turn, blow up the Cage and carry on. Meddling Mage requires some more context on the board state and graveyard to name correctly, sorry I cant provide more advice on that front. Lastly, it's okay to have unfavorable to bad matchups. If one deck was perfect in the format then everyone would play it. Good luck and happy gaming!
No offense @TheLoneN00b, but either you’re playing Humans incorrectly, or I’ve been misplaying dredge, as I’ve found Humans to be an incredibly tough matchup G1...
Your creatures get larger as you progress, interact with our hands, tax our effects, and can shut down a large wincon like Conflagrate.
If I don’t have an explosive start then I find humans to be an uphill battle rather quickly.
Hi there, I'm here because I hate this deck. I currently play Humans, and love it with all my heart, but playing against Dredge is always a miserable, unfun guaranteed loss, even when drawing hate cards.
I'm wondering, how effective are Grafdigger's Cage and Auriok Champion against you guys? Are there any play lines to focus on or is it really just "get lucky with draws or die"? I almost always named Conflagerate with Meddling Mage, but even then it seems to barely help. Thanks.
How do you guys go about labeling Meddling Mages and Phantasmal Images? Little scraps of paper seems annoying and cumbersome but I can't think of a better option.
Fellas, I think it's time we discuss Tajic, Legion's Edge. He's been in the main deck of the last two highest placing SCG Open Humans lists. Granted, they were Team Constructed Opens, but it's still something to consider. There's a lot of decks playing non-creature damage right now with burn spells, Walking Ballista, Anger of the Gods, ect. Only nonbo I can see is with our current land setup, we can't give him First Strike. But that may be a win-more clause anyway.
I'm currently trying out one in the sideboard to see how it goes.
Interesting article that explores some of the new GRN cards, with a nod to plaguecrafter and knight of autumn, which have already been mentioned in this forum. Interested in the more aggressive list posted, as I really enjoy playing Aggro, however not sure how much legs it will have given how effective the current list is.
Dire Fleet Daredevil was originally a no go for me, but I've had a lot of recent success after being badgered into trying it. Sometimes I win the game off the back of a stolen kill/burn spell. He's not amazing, usually only stealing 1 and 2-cmc cards, but is incredibly versatile so I think he'll sit as a 1-of for now. Admittedly I haven't pulled Kessig Malcontents enough to see if he holds his weight, but I want to keep testing him.
My biggest take away from the article was we want consistent aggression more than anything else most of the time. So I've added a Mayor of Avabruck to act as a 5th Thalia's Lieutenant. So far he's been absolutely awesome, occasionally pumping out Wolf tokens in grindier games, eating kill spells, and other times helping squeak damage through.
My only worry about the deck is not running any Militia Bugler. If I really start to miss him, I'll probably cut a Sin Collector and Anafenza from the side for 2 copies.
If you guys don't mind, could someone glance over my list and see if I'm missing anything crucial? Any non-synergies I may not be aware of or something I'm missing? I think it's pretty close to a stock list for right now.
I'm curious on Goblin Chainwhirler. Is he really so good you'd replace every sweeper and go all the way up to 4? Seems like he's only a good sweeper early game. Also, how does Legion Warboss act as Ensnaring Bridge if the tokens are forced to attack each turn?
@GPash: Looking at that mousetrap....ummmm. Gotta think on that one.
@Natehill: Wise words. Nice to hear your voice around these parts again.
@Frig: Keep cranking. I see where you're going, and I just petitioned Walked to share any updates that he has on his Silver Moon variant - should be helpful to you.
O.K. - A Modern season on MTGO just closed. So, let's see where we stood for repeatedly successful decks. It's pretty much me (MTGO username: Raystack) & Russ Colosi (stickballruss / fadvisor82).
So, what's new for the season? In a few words, Guilds of Ravnica. Two motherjammers just wandered out of town and up the mountainside: Goblin Cratermaker and Legion Warboss. What do we think? Let 'em in?
Goblin Cratermaker = Abrade. That's how I see it. He is Abrade on a Stick. And, better than that, he can fell titans like Karn, Ugin, TKS, Endbringer, Reality Smasher, and he can attack planeswalkers. Get 'Em! He's not just a shatter or a shock. He's a smooth 2-drop that pays dividends instead of a drawn abrade on turn 2 with no targets and nothing else to cast. Don't know if you noticed, but...while you were reading this, I just cleared a spot for him around the campfire. He's in.
Legion Warboss = Ensnaring Bridge. That's right. By tag-teaming Warboss with Rabblemaster, the creature count has reached critical mass. These two are firing out 1/1 Goblins each turn like a gatling gun....a gobling gun, perhaps. So much so, that we should be able to, with the assistance of chalice/moon, run over an opponent or square up for a fair fight.
Note: Eidolon of the great revel has also joined the main deck party, ala Porno for Pyros builds, which swells the main deck creature count to the new heights. No Longer! Never again shall we issue calls for aid from our top deck draws. The win-cons are now creature based and everywhere. Quick sidenote: Goblin Chainwhirler is a 4-of, and totally replaces all maindeck sweepers. So, that means NO maindeck sweepers/spot removal, just Goblins. Are we really putting that much faith in Goblins. For the purposes of early testing, Yes! Warboss is a new leader. He's in.
But, what of the Planeswalkers?! There are none? Indeed. None. Without ensnaring bridge, I simply can not protect them. And, I won't have their blood on my hands, kinfolk! Neither Chandra's nor Koth's....funky, lava ooze. Does Koth have blood?? Yeah, they're out. This deck goes low to the ground in game one, and uses a transitional sideboard in game 2.
Transitional sideboard: (4) Ensnaring Bridge and (4) Anger of the Gods. In those cases where we can't hope to overwhelm in a fair fight, then we are back to a more traditional Pyro Prison build. Pull the Eidolons out and go Bridge/Anger or a mix. Depends. But, we will see this action against:
Bogles, Soul Sisters, Elves, Hollow One, Humans, Merfolk, Spirit-Aggro, BridgeVine.
Howdy, new to the deck. How well does this deck mulligan? Is a slower hand (one without ramp) good when it has the answer you're looking for? And what's our best way of attacking Tron besides early Blood moons?
Is Tezzerator Prison just an impossible matchup? They very often have turn 2, sometimes turn 1 Ensnaring Bridge, Engineered Explosives and/or Ghirapur Aether Grid, almost always with a Welding Jar backing it all up.
Went undefeated twice in Modern League tonight. Not only that, one of the leagues I 2-0'd every single game.
Let me tell you guys a hard truth: Plaguecrafter is the real deal. Against midrange and control matchups, he often takes their only threat or planeswalker while buffing your own threats. Aether Vial makes him even nastier on draw and combat steps.
Are there any other cards being released this set to consider besides Assassin's Trophy? I'd like to start configuring a list. I'm thinking of removing most of the wide hitting sideboard cards and loading up on silver bullets, 4 Ass Trophy in the main.
When playing both Meddling Mage and Kitesail Freebooter, are we better off tucking the more impactful card or naming it? For example, if my opponent's hand has both Lightning Bolt and Damnation, and enough mana to cast both, should we hit Damnation with Meddling Mage or Kitesail? Or does it not really matter?
I'm wondering, how effective are Grafdigger's Cage and Auriok Champion against you guys? Are there any play lines to focus on or is it really just "get lucky with draws or die"? I almost always named Conflagerate with Meddling Mage, but even then it seems to barely help. Thanks.
I'm currently trying out one in the sideboard to see how it goes.
Based on that article and recent testing, I've been rolling with this build:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Meddling Mage
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
1 Mayor of Avabruck
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Mantis Rider
1 Kessig Malcontents
4 Reflector Mage
4 Aether Vial
The Locations
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Seachrome Coast
4 Unclaimed Territory
The Substitute Men
2 Dismember
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 Izzet Staticaster
3 Sin Collector
3 Knight of Autumn
1 Damping Sphere
1 Whirler Rogue
Dire Fleet Daredevil was originally a no go for me, but I've had a lot of recent success after being badgered into trying it. Sometimes I win the game off the back of a stolen kill/burn spell. He's not amazing, usually only stealing 1 and 2-cmc cards, but is incredibly versatile so I think he'll sit as a 1-of for now. Admittedly I haven't pulled Kessig Malcontents enough to see if he holds his weight, but I want to keep testing him.
My biggest take away from the article was we want consistent aggression more than anything else most of the time. So I've added a Mayor of Avabruck to act as a 5th Thalia's Lieutenant. So far he's been absolutely awesome, occasionally pumping out Wolf tokens in grindier games, eating kill spells, and other times helping squeak damage through.
My only worry about the deck is not running any Militia Bugler. If I really start to miss him, I'll probably cut a Sin Collector and Anafenza from the side for 2 copies.
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Blood Moon
4 Chalice of the Void
Cut it out
2 Abrade
1 Slagstorm
I'll win eventually
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Avaricious Dragon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Walking Ballista
2 Goblin Chainwhirler
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Desperate Ritual
1 Pyretic Ritual
4 Simian Spirit Guide
I need these I guess
14 Mountain
3 Gemstone Caverns
1 Mutavault
3 Ramunap Ruins
You thought you were safe?
1 Shattering Spree
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Boil
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Torpor Orb
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Damping Matrix
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Goblin Cratermaker
1 Bonfire of the Damned
Let me tell you guys a hard truth: Plaguecrafter is the real deal. Against midrange and control matchups, he often takes their only threat or planeswalker while buffing your own threats. Aether Vial makes him even nastier on draw and combat steps.
I'm currently running this:
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia's Lieutenant
4 Phantasmal Image
4 Kitesail Freebooter
4 Meddling Mage
2 Militia Bugler
4 Reflector Mage
4 Mantis Rider
4 Aether Vial
The Lands
4 Ancient Ziggurat
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Horizon Canopy
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Seachrome Coast
4 Unclaimed Territory
The Other Stuff
1 Gut Shot
1 Auriok Champion
1 Damping Sphere
1 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Dismember
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Knight of Autumn
2 Plaguecrafter
2 Sin Collector
1 Riders of Gavony
Originally I had 2 Auriok Champion, figured I could cut one now that we have Knight of Autumn. I also cut a Gaddock Teeg because of Plaguecrafter.