The first one isn't bad, but I feel it goes from amazing to unplayable garbage depending on the deck. It feels narrow.
I like the second one best, but again it feels narrow. I feel that a YMTC card that will get votes has to be proactive. People enjoy their Celestial Purges but like their Ball Lightnings alot more.
Third card is fine, but an expensive bomby card that will never see play in competitive Magic probably won't get votes.
Global Greed is bad design. The card is still broken in the right deck and making it symmetrical doesn't make it "healthy".
I do agree the first one needs some sort of way to start things off but I couldn't think of a clean way to do it. I guess could just put a 2/2 zombie into play when it etb?
I was thinking of the second as more of a Johnny card. Using it with things like Innocent Blood and Barter in Blood to double the effect and shelter yourself.
You are probably right about people wanting something competitive, but I do wonder what the distribution of spikes/casual will be in voters.
Take mana costs with a grain of salt, the are just initial guesses. I assume they will only be taking rules text for this stage.
Spreading Infection 2BB
Enchantment
When Spreading Infection enters the Battlefield put a 2/2 black Zombie into play.
Whenever a creature dealt damage by a Zombie this turn dies, return it to the battlefield. It is a black Zombie in addition to it's other colors and types.
Good old zombie flavor. I felt like Innistrad didn't really hit the whole "zombie bite" thing. Only Dread Slaver hit it but it still didn't grasp the spreading aspect. [Edit: Added making a creature to start things off]
Forced Martyrdom BB
If an effect would cause you to sacrifice a creature, each opponent sacrifices a creature instead.
A simple but altering effect, note this doesn't affect costs but works with spell effects like Barter in Blood
Necromancer's Essence 4BBB
You may cast Creature cards from your graveyard.
I dub thee new Debtor's Knell. Black could use more heavy hitter enchantments.
Global Greed BBB
Players skip their draw step. Pay 1 life: Draw a card at the beginning of the next end step. Any player may activate this ability but only during his or her turn before the end step.
Have to make a necro-variant right? And besides it's symmetrical so totally fair. (This one's a joke)
Well regardless of some excessive bickering the discussion here has been quite helpful. Having the card in person I would say that I think most players would prefer this card to a heavily whitened one. A collector sure I can definitely understand they put creasing extremely low, but for playing purposes in a cube or whatever this card looks nice sleeved.
Also I'm not looking to get astronomical prices for it. My previous estimate was $700 and this thread seems to more or less confirm that. I might post it a little higher to gauge interest first.
Yes it's definitely real, the friend I got it from a while back had it since around sixth along with his other power, I got it from him when he picked up a mint unlimited one.
As I always warn people who want to bend test these days:
"While almost every counterfeit card will fail this test, even real Magic cards will eventually succumb to the stress of being distorted multiple times. The test works like this: Hold the card between your fingers and thumb and bend the card so that the ends touch briefly. Then straighten the card out flat and examine the center. A fake Magic card will show visible creases and cracks, but a real magic card will appear unaffected. Storage of cards in dry areas will affect the ability to pass this test, and even real cards can only stand up to this test for so long. Most will show minor creases after about 8 “folds” and most will fail completely by 12 folds."
Hey guys, been a little off Magic lately so I haven't been following prices. I was thinking about selling my Lotus in order to put together a power cube. I don't play T1 anymore and I'm gonna make more full art proxies (see my sig, painted not lame digital proxies) for the 100+ cards because, well, I like my proxies
Anyway as you can see from the pics here it's in pretty good condition with exception of the crease. The back is worse than the front but it's very playable. I can't get a good metric on eBay because any somewhat similar condition Lotuses I could find were "Best Offer accepted" which doesn't show the actual sell price.
Anyway looking for some realistic prices what I could get in sell/trade for it. Thanks for your time.
Aaron Forsythe more or less confirmed that this is true while appearing on GGSLive a few minutes ago.
Quote from Happy Shaman »
Then what about the Liliana 5-ability PW that seemed to have a legit source?
It's confirmed by the placeholder card that Garruk Relentless is a double-faced card. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Liliana won't have 5-abilities unless the mods are really confidant about the PM'd info.
Les autres créatures Loup-garou et Loup que vous controlez gagnent +1/+1
Au début de votre étape de fin, mettez sur le champ de bataille un jeton de créature 2/2 Loup.
Au début de chaque entretien, si un joueur a lancé au moins deux sorts au tour précédent, <missing> l’Alpha hurlemeute.
The translation from the French website's facebook page:
Other wolf and werewolf creatures you control get +1+1
At the beginning of your endstep put a 2/2 wolf onto the battlefield
Each upkeep if a player played 2 spells during the previous turn, <missing> Howlpack Alpha
It seems to me like the missing word is a new keyword action dealing with the Day/Night mechanic. It seems convenient that it happens to be cut off. So the last ability would be "Each upkeep if a player played 2 spells during the previous turn, Transform Howlpack Alpha" or something similar. It being a sacrifice trigger doesn't really make sense because with Day/Night being cyclical I'm pretty sure the creatures will go back and forth somehow.
Maybe I'm wrong and it is sacrifice, but it seems like this is one of those bits of misinformation that got spread because everyone was so excited about rumors. I'm not sure where they're getting it from.
maro254 Mark Rosewater
Just spent the last twenty minutes opening Innistrad packs. I so badly want this set to come out. #somuchawesomenessstuffedineverypack
28 Jul
maro254 Mark Rosewater
We were doing a printing check on the packs to make sure everything was as it should be.
28 Jul
Maro doesn't just tweet things at random, he loves dropping hints and little clues. Clearly there's something special about the boosters. Given this, and the fact that there are numbers 193a and 193b on the card I'm pretty convinced they will come together. For obvious reasons stated approximately one billion times on this thread they won't be 2-sided cards.
The best system it looks like so far given the evidence is that these are "super tokens". Super Tokens makes so they can have much more complicated rules text on both parts than normal tokens would have. Though I wouldn't rule out the fact that the base card might have the full text on it given that it has a 3/3 above the p/t box, but this really seems like too much text. Swapping out one card for the other card would really make this ability feel like a transformation.
The biggest arguments against the Super Token system are:
Getting one without the other would suck:
- These would always come together as hinted by the a/b name. It's perfectly doable in the packaging process. The b card would replace a token/tips and tricks card in the pack.
What happens when you get a Mayor and foil Mayor in the same pack?
- You wouldn't. It's not unrealistic to assume they would prevent this from occurring. You could get either a normal a/b card OR a foil a/b card. You'd never get two.
Ok but how do you draft it then? You'd have to take two cards, you'd need a judge to confirm you weren't cheating.
- There's two easy solutions to this either 1) there would be one day/night card in each pack thus if you take 2 cards then pass the pack it will be obvious if you cheated or not or 2) make the B card have a non-magic back, like tokens. This card would hangout with your sideboard until it transformed. As far as signaling, it's easy to assume Day/Night cards will come in all colors so it won't give anything away.
Given what we know this seems like the most likely outcome to me. As to what causes the Day/Night switch? No clue. It could be the cards transform individually, then other cards give benefits to all "day" cards. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
(Hope it's not against the rules to bring a thread back like this,) but Aaron Forsythe talking to Pat Chapin and Ray on ggslive at GP Pittsburgh just confirmed that the card is in Innistrad, is NOT based on the original land design and is in fact a rare creature.
Apparently from a recent interview with Aaron Forsythe it won't be a land.
He's always able to be used - if you don't have a creature you can always tutor one.
Not if you don't have any creatures in your deck that can be tutored up for the ammount of Loyalty.
Look at this situation which will happen a lot:
Garruk stats with 4 loyalty, you use his minus 3 ability it goes to 1.
Board gets Day of Judgement'd
You have no one drops in your deck, there are no creatures on the board.
Garruk does nothing, using his ability for -0 doesn't count as nothing changes except you used his ability for the turn.
With all other planeswalkers if you can't do anything productive with the abilities themselves you can at least add loyalty. With this Garruk it will be quite common that you can't do anything at all.
It's a very specific design rule that Planeswalkers should never be unable to be used. Sometimes the effect does nothing more than increase their loyalty but this Garruk's only + ability not being able to be used when there are no creatures makes no doubt in my mind that it's fake.
The only way I will be convinced this card is real if I see it on Wizards offical spoiler page.
He is never dead on table. Thats the subtle design there, pushing the limits of their precedents.
He is dead on the table if you have no creatures left in your deck => his loyalty and there are no creatures on the table. That's not fun design you should be able to at least increase his loyalty.
For anyone else who didn't feel like getting gouged by randomly high prices for non-limited supply products: Wal-mart and possibly other large retail stores have them in stock now. I just picked up the two decks I wanted for 29.99 i.e. MSRP.
I'd recommend checking any local stores before paying more than the MSRP.
Keep this in mind when you're potentially buying singles. If the price of singles is nearing the price of the product you're probably better off just buying one. The only real reason I can see for buying singles is if you want just a couple of the rares for one of your own deck AND they come from different decks.
It's difficult to make the comparison though, because (a) my impression is that these decks have rather better card quality that wizards' average precon; (b) duel decks, premium series and archenemy are all for the general casual market, but this is tapping into the edh playing community; (c) most significantly, there are new cards printed in these. I'm not convinced we'll see the same old pattern.
But the bottom line is that these are going to be sold in large retailers like Target and Walmart. That puts a definite ceiling on the price. It's much faster and easier, plus no shipping, to go pick them up in a store than to buy them online. Online sellers need the cheaper prices + bulk sales to pull ahead. The only way they won't is if for some reason target/walmart stop carrying them very quickly in their life cycle.
Yeah, the difference is those are speculation, these we know will be expensive.
I do agree the first one needs some sort of way to start things off but I couldn't think of a clean way to do it. I guess could just put a 2/2 zombie into play when it etb?
I was thinking of the second as more of a Johnny card. Using it with things like Innocent Blood and Barter in Blood to double the effect and shelter yourself.
You are probably right about people wanting something competitive, but I do wonder what the distribution of spikes/casual will be in voters.
Oh and the last one was simply a joke.
Good old zombie flavor. I felt like Innistrad didn't really hit the whole "zombie bite" thing. Only Dread Slaver hit it but it still didn't grasp the spreading aspect. [Edit: Added making a creature to start things off]
A simple but altering effect, note this doesn't affect costs but works with spell effects like Barter in Blood
I dub thee new Debtor's Knell. Black could use more heavy hitter enchantments.
Have to make a necro-variant right? And besides it's symmetrical so totally fair. (This one's a joke)
Also I'm not looking to get astronomical prices for it. My previous estimate was $700 and this thread seems to more or less confirm that. I might post it a little higher to gauge interest first.
My I ask what makes you say it is "extremely obvious"?
As I always warn people who want to bend test these days:
"While almost every counterfeit card will fail this test, even real Magic cards will eventually succumb to the stress of being distorted multiple times. The test works like this: Hold the card between your fingers and thumb and bend the card so that the ends touch briefly. Then straighten the card out flat and examine the center. A fake Magic card will show visible creases and cracks, but a real magic card will appear unaffected. Storage of cards in dry areas will affect the ability to pass this test, and even real cards can only stand up to this test for so long. Most will show minor creases after about 8 “folds” and most will fail completely by 12 folds."
From Wizards own article:
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/feature/209
Anyway as you can see from the pics here it's in pretty good condition with exception of the crease. The back is worse than the front but it's very playable. I can't get a good metric on eBay because any somewhat similar condition Lotuses I could find were "Best Offer accepted" which doesn't show the actual sell price.
It's confirmed by the placeholder card that Garruk Relentless is a double-faced card. I think it's pretty safe to assume that Liliana won't have 5-abilities unless the mods are really confidant about the PM'd info.
[Edit: nath'd by Luminum by 1 min]
It's just the image of both cards on the first post of the thread. Not the poster with the actual text on it.
Les autres créatures Loup-garou et Loup que vous controlez gagnent +1/+1
Au début de votre étape de fin, mettez sur le champ de bataille un jeton de créature 2/2 Loup.
Au début de chaque entretien, si un joueur a lancé au moins deux sorts au tour précédent, <missing> l’Alpha hurlemeute.
The translation from the French website's facebook page:
Other wolf and werewolf creatures you control get +1+1
At the beginning of your endstep put a 2/2 wolf onto the battlefield
Each upkeep if a player played 2 spells during the previous turn, <missing> Howlpack Alpha
It seems to me like the missing word is a new keyword action dealing with the Day/Night mechanic. It seems convenient that it happens to be cut off. So the last ability would be "Each upkeep if a player played 2 spells during the previous turn, Transform Howlpack Alpha" or something similar. It being a sacrifice trigger doesn't really make sense because with Day/Night being cyclical I'm pretty sure the creatures will go back and forth somehow.
Maybe I'm wrong and it is sacrifice, but it seems like this is one of those bits of misinformation that got spread because everyone was so excited about rumors. I'm not sure where they're getting it from.
maro254 Mark Rosewater
Just spent the last twenty minutes opening Innistrad packs. I so badly want this set to come out. #somuchawesomenessstuffedineverypack
28 Jul
maro254 Mark Rosewater
We were doing a printing check on the packs to make sure everything was as it should be.
28 Jul
Maro doesn't just tweet things at random, he loves dropping hints and little clues. Clearly there's something special about the boosters. Given this, and the fact that there are numbers 193a and 193b on the card I'm pretty convinced they will come together. For obvious reasons stated approximately one billion times on this thread they won't be 2-sided cards.
The best system it looks like so far given the evidence is that these are "super tokens". Super Tokens makes so they can have much more complicated rules text on both parts than normal tokens would have. Though I wouldn't rule out the fact that the base card might have the full text on it given that it has a 3/3 above the p/t box, but this really seems like too much text. Swapping out one card for the other card would really make this ability feel like a transformation.
The biggest arguments against the Super Token system are:
Getting one without the other would suck:
- These would always come together as hinted by the a/b name. It's perfectly doable in the packaging process. The b card would replace a token/tips and tricks card in the pack.
What happens when you get a Mayor and foil Mayor in the same pack?
- You wouldn't. It's not unrealistic to assume they would prevent this from occurring. You could get either a normal a/b card OR a foil a/b card. You'd never get two.
Ok but how do you draft it then? You'd have to take two cards, you'd need a judge to confirm you weren't cheating.
- There's two easy solutions to this either 1) there would be one day/night card in each pack thus if you take 2 cards then pass the pack it will be obvious if you cheated or not or 2) make the B card have a non-magic back, like tokens. This card would hangout with your sideboard until it transformed. As far as signaling, it's easy to assume Day/Night cards will come in all colors so it won't give anything away.
Given what we know this seems like the most likely outcome to me. As to what causes the Day/Night switch? No clue. It could be the cards transform individually, then other cards give benefits to all "day" cards. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
The original submitted version of the card:
Denying Channel
Land
T: Add
2UU, Discard Denying Channel: Counter target spell.
Apparently from a recent interview with Aaron Forsythe it won't be a land.
Not if you don't have any creatures in your deck that can be tutored up for the ammount of Loyalty.
Look at this situation which will happen a lot:
Garruk stats with 4 loyalty, you use his minus 3 ability it goes to 1.
Board gets Day of Judgement'd
You have no one drops in your deck, there are no creatures on the board.
Garruk does nothing, using his ability for -0 doesn't count as nothing changes except you used his ability for the turn.
With all other planeswalkers if you can't do anything productive with the abilities themselves you can at least add loyalty. With this Garruk it will be quite common that you can't do anything at all.
The only way I will be convinced this card is real if I see it on Wizards offical spoiler page.
He is dead on the table if you have no creatures left in your deck => his loyalty and there are no creatures on the table. That's not fun design you should be able to at least increase his loyalty.
I'd recommend checking any local stores before paying more than the MSRP.
Keep this in mind when you're potentially buying singles. If the price of singles is nearing the price of the product you're probably better off just buying one. The only real reason I can see for buying singles is if you want just a couple of the rares for one of your own deck AND they come from different decks.
But the bottom line is that these are going to be sold in large retailers like Target and Walmart. That puts a definite ceiling on the price. It's much faster and easier, plus no shipping, to go pick them up in a store than to buy them online. Online sellers need the cheaper prices + bulk sales to pull ahead. The only way they won't is if for some reason target/walmart stop carrying them very quickly in their life cycle.