@thomeyis: I updated the post to reflect Gary. It had the right creature numbers, just forgot to list him in the decklist.
@slave: Pox seems to be the consensus to go for this deck. However I've never been a fan of cards like Winter Orb, Static Orb, etc due to the nature of just dragging the game on for everyone since they can't untap anything. I think Sun Droplet may be unnecessary if people can't end up keeping critters on the board.
@Prid3: Do you think Stax is still competitive? Obviously it's not Gary or Waste Not competitive, but it forces people to choose how they manage their resources without screwing themselves. Obviously a lot of those cards are super pricey, but it seems like keeping most of the cards to a reasonable budget seems plausible. As for a win-con, is something like Bonehoard acceptable? I just wouldn't want the deck to drag on the game forever, forcing people to sack a land every turn while I wait to draw from my deck only to take 10 turns to kill people with 1/1's .
With respect to the list; 10 flex cards could be...
Do you have any other archetype suggestions for Mono Black? I know Waste Not/Gary/Zulaport Cutthroat/Reanimate are all options that have been done before. I don't play a lot of tribal, but i Do like the Demon deck posted awhile back, seems like it can beefy. Heartless Summoning with derps isn't bad either.
How about something janky black normally doesn't do and make an enchantment style deck?
I've been sifting through the threads and I haven't found too many stax threads through the recent years except in formats like EDH or competitive legacy. I was looking to redo my black deck to play the stax archetype with Braids, Cabal Minion and Smokestack. I did find a devotion thread stax deck posted by Prid3 that used Gray Merchant of Asphodel as a win condition. I've never played stax before, but would like to get some ideas. I don't want something overly stupid with moxes and blah blah blah stuff. I feel as if Contamination is an I-Win card also. Stuff like Bloodghast would be nice to have, but a playset of those is too expensive at the moment. I had a couple different lists thought up; one using Gary as a main win, and another using creatures that work well with graveyards.
MaelstromPonderer: Obsidian Fireheart does seem fun. I've never got him to go on long enough to actually do any substantial burn. In a devotion deck it may make sense though, doing 4+ blaze counters a turn seems good though.
I think my new build is leaning towards the life gain red style Prid3 posted in his guide section. It's a unique idea and I always give people in my meta crap about always playing mono White boring life gain decks with Archangel of Thune, Soul Sisters, Ajani's Pridemate, etc, but have you ever seen mono red life gain? Naw.
Atanar: While nice, if no one attacks me I can't see Slumbering Dragon helping out too much.
Slave: Pretty straight forward deck. I have a similar one that uses Rolling Earthquake and Repercussion, but in Boros colors though.
Thijs1301: I think I'll shy away from the Coretapper idea. I guess I've never played him, but it seems fragile when there's no targets on the field. Lux Cannon and Titan Forge are always good cards though.
Since were on the topic of red deck ideas, has anyone ever made a competitive Ion Storm deck? I've liked the idea, but is it something that you can get behind?
Another deck idea I found exploring was Prid3's Mana Geyser list in the Red sticky. I modified it slightly, but seems like it would be fun to play also.
Hmmm.. I've never seen Thopter Squadron before. I think a 1-of would be solid as a way to churn out tokens with the extra mana. Or I could go the higher CMC route and choose Pentavus instead. I think 2 Panharmonicon is the right number for the deck as it doesn't take advantage of artifacts you listed like Ichor Wellspring and Mycosynth Wellspring.
Prid3: Thanks for the feedback. I was looking to do something different as I already have done an Izzet Daretti, Scrap Savant/Goblin Welder deck and an Tron/Post all colorless deck using stuff like Metalwork Colossus.
MaelstromPonderer: Thanks for the URL updates. Coretapper seems legit as long has you have enough targets. I'm thinking 8-12 if I do go that route. 4 Chalice, 4 Atlas, but I don't know what else. My other package would include something like 4Taurean Mauler, 4Mind Stone instead. If Wheel of Fortune was cheaper they'd definitely go in here.
slave: Reforge the Soul is the best alternative to WOF, but the 5 mana seems kind of steep at times, but it is the next best thing. And my previous draw deck was Grixis and used stuff like Notion Thief and a lot of the other cards you listed so I'm just trying to switch things up and see if red can actually do it by itself.
CadaverousBl00m: Library of Leng seems interesting. Kind of silly though to discard your hand and then get the same cards again, but I could see where it works. I know blue can do it way easy for a deck like this.
All good ideas. I'm not really a fan of infinite or combo decks, but I can see why people would play them. I think I'll go with the more interactive token route. Advent of the Wurm seems kind of bad. I'll probably swap it out for Heliod, God of the Sun. I'm thinking of replacing Nacatl War-Pride too for say Armada Wurm as a 6 drop? Nacatal pairs well with Trostani, Selesnya's Voice though.
@thomeyis: I updated the post to reflect Gary. It had the right creature numbers, just forgot to list him in the decklist.
@slave: Pox seems to be the consensus to go for this deck. However I've never been a fan of cards like Winter Orb, Static Orb, etc due to the nature of just dragging the game on for everyone since they can't untap anything. I think Sun Droplet may be unnecessary if people can't end up keeping critters on the board.
@Prid3: Do you think Stax is still competitive? Obviously it's not Gary or Waste Not competitive, but it forces people to choose how they manage their resources without screwing themselves. Obviously a lot of those cards are super pricey, but it seems like keeping most of the cards to a reasonable budget seems plausible. As for a win-con, is something like Bonehoard acceptable? I just wouldn't want the deck to drag on the game forever, forcing people to sack a land every turn while I wait to draw from my deck only to take 10 turns to kill people with 1/1's .
With respect to the list; 10 flex cards could be...
1 Demonic Consultation
4 Pox
2 Bonehoard
1 Grave Pact
Do you have any other archetype suggestions for Mono Black? I know Waste Not/Gary/Zulaport Cutthroat/Reanimate are all options that have been done before. I don't play a lot of tribal, but i Do like the Demon deck posted awhile back, seems like it can beefy. Heartless Summoning with derps isn't bad either.
How about something janky black normally doesn't do and make an enchantment style deck?
Creatures (7)
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Kokusho, the Evening Star
Spells (28)
2 Massacre
1 Sol Ring
4 Bloodchief Ascension
2 Exsanguinate
1 Words of Waste
4 Phyrexian Arena
2 Underworld Connections
1 Crystal Chimes
1 No Mercy
2 Lethal Vapors
1 Night of Soul's Betrayal
2 Pestilence
2 Crux of Fate
1 Black Market
1 Spreading Plague
1 Dawn of the Dead
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Myriad Landscape
18 Swamp
I've been sifting through the threads and I haven't found too many stax threads through the recent years except in formats like EDH or competitive legacy. I was looking to redo my black deck to play the stax archetype with Braids, Cabal Minion and Smokestack. I did find a devotion thread stax deck posted by Prid3 that used Gray Merchant of Asphodel as a win condition. I've never played stax before, but would like to get some ideas. I don't want something overly stupid with moxes and blah blah blah stuff. I feel as if Contamination is an I-Win card also. Stuff like Bloodghast would be nice to have, but a playset of those is too expensive at the moment. I had a couple different lists thought up; one using Gary as a main win, and another using creatures that work well with graveyards.
Creatures (19)
4 Nether Traitor
2 Reassembling Skeleton
4 Ophiomancer
2 Endless Cockroaches
3 Braids, Cabal Minion
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Sol Ring
4 Charcoal Diamond
2 Bitterblossom
4 Oath of Liliana
4 Phyrexian Arena
1 No Mercy
2 Smokestack
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
2 Leechridden Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
18 Swamp
Creatures (26)
4 Mortician Beetle
4 Nether Traitor
2 Reassembling Skeleton
4 Wight of Precinct Six
4 Ophiomancer
4 Fleshbag Marauder
4 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Sol Ring
4 Charcoal Diamond
4 Smokestack
1 Grave Pact
2 Bonehoard
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
2 Dunes of the Dead
1 Volrath's Stronghold
17 Swamp
Thoughts? Maybe combine both archetypes so there's two ways out?
Mairsil, the Pretender could be extra copies of Necrotic Ooze.
Shifting Shadow lets you keep your Blightsteel Colossus and digs out another one for a measly 2R.
Kindred Boon works with all the Myojin creatures: Myojin of Cleansing Fire/Myojin of Infinite Rage/Myojin of Life's Web/Myojin of Night's Reach/Myojin of Seeing Winds.
Disrupt Decorum is just all around surprise lolz.
Fractured Identity on your Phage the Untouchable/Endless Whispers deck.
Traverse the Outlands on Taurean Mauler/Forgotten Ancient/Sunscorch Regent = big spells next turn.
Ramos, Dragon Engine might be a good 1 of in an all gold colored deck.
I think my new build is leaning towards the life gain red style Prid3 posted in his guide section. It's a unique idea and I always give people in my meta crap about always playing mono White boring life gain decks with Archangel of Thune, Soul Sisters, Ajani's Pridemate, etc, but have you ever seen mono red life gain? Naw.
Here's what I'm thinking
Creatures (24)
2x Ashling the Pilgrim
3x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Prophetic Flamespeaker
4x Taurean Mauler
4x Bloodfire Kavu
1x Ogre Battledriver
1x Heartless Hidetsugu
1x Kumano, Master Yamabushi
2x Inferno Titan
2x Balefire Dragon
1x Magmatic Force
4x Basilisk Collar
1x Sol Ring
2x Chaos Warp
1x Hammer of Purphoros
2x Loxodon Warhammer
2x Mind's Eye
1x Gratuitous Violence
2x Flamekin Village
18x Mountain
4x Myriad Landscape
How important is haste in these decks? Looking at maybe subbing out Ogre Battledriver for something else. Possibly the 2 Prophetic Flamespeakers too since I have 2 Mind's Eye for card draw. Maybe 2 Veteran Brawlers as a deterrent perhaps? I do like 1 Hammer of Purphoros due to it's late game scaling after the board has been wiped from death touch dudes. Chaos Warp is in there for problem stuff like Darksteel Forge+Platinum Angel or Tainted Remedy shenanigans.
Are there any other utility red creatures I could be missing out on?
Slave: Pretty straight forward deck. I have a similar one that uses Rolling Earthquake and Repercussion, but in Boros colors though.
Thijs1301: I think I'll shy away from the Coretapper idea. I guess I've never played him, but it seems fragile when there's no targets on the field. Lux Cannon and Titan Forge are always good cards though.
Devotion for red always seems fun. Some of the cards are questionable, like at the 4CMC spot, would you rely on Fanatic of Mogis or play something recursive with some mini-burn such as Ashcloud Phoenix? Dictate of the Twin Gods/Rage Reflection could be in the spot against Dragon Roost.
Creatures (25)
4x Figure of Destiny
2x Dragon Whisperer
4x Kargan Dragonlord
4x Boros Reckoner
4x Fanatic of Mogis
2x Lord of Shatterskull Pass
1x Kumano, Master Yamabushi
2x Inferno Titan
2x Magmatic Force
1x Sol Ring
2x Mizzium Mortars
4x Outpost Siege
1x Dragon Roost
2x Insurrection
4x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
21x Mountain
Creatures (21)
4 Greater Gargadon
2 Ashling the Pilgrim
4 Taurean Mauler
2 War Elemental
2 Murderous Redcap
2 Thermopod
4 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Sol Ring
4 Fire Diamond
1 Goblin Bombardment
4 Ion Storm
1 Phyrexian Altar
2 Outpost Siege
1 Mind's Eye
2 Mob Rule
15 Mountain
4 Vivid Crag
4 Myriad Landscape
Not sure if the ramp package is even necessary, but it's nice to have more R sources for Ion Storm. I was thinking of a single Dictate of the Twin Gods for 4 damage a pop, but not sure if it's too win more. Umezawa's Jitte would be good with Hound of Griselbrand. Mob Rule is obviously there for another win-con along to make sacrifice fodder for Greater Gargadon. A single Helm of Possession could seem okay too.
Another deck idea I found exploring was Prid3's Mana Geyser list in the Red sticky. I modified it slightly, but seems like it would be fun to play also.
Creatures (21)
4 Generator Servant
4 Taurean Mauler
2 Dualcaster Mage
4 Inferno Titan
4 Sandstone Oracle
2 Magmatic Force
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Sol Ring
2 Comet Storm
2 Hedron Archive
4 Mana Geyser
1 Pyromancer's Goggles
1 Vicious Shadows
4 Volcanic Vision
16 Mountain
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Myriad Landscape
I threw in a Trading Post + Spine of Ish Sah since it's a nice card advantage combo.
I'm still on the edge of running 1 Norin the Wary, but if you draw it and have out Impact Tremors, it can be a quick clock each turn.
Here's an updated list:
Creatures (24)
1x Norin the Wary
4x Reckless Fireweaver
4x Palladium Myr
1x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Thopter Squadron
2x Precursor Golem
4x Combustible Gearhulk
1x Sandstone Oracle
4x Myr Battlesphere
1x Sol Ring
4x Impact Tremors
2x Worn Powerstone
2x Panharmonicon
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Trading Post
1x Spine of Ish Sah
15x Mountain
1x Kher Keep
4x Great Furnace
4x Darksteel Citadel
I thought it would be cool to have 8 copies of Impact Tremors (I use 2 more Purphoros, God of the Forge in a different deck). Veteran Brawlers are cheap though too, so it could pick up some play testing. I think Eldrazi Monument and Possessed Portal don't really contribute to winning with the deck unless it's late game, so these two would make the cut for 2xWorn Powerstone. Are there any other cards in testing I should consider? A couple Thopter Assembly in place of Precursor Golem could be good.
Creatures (24)
1x Norin the Wary
4x Reckless Fireweaver
4x Palladium Myr
2x Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Kuldotha Forgemaster
4x Precursor Golem
2x Combustible Gearhulk
4x Myr Battlesphere
1x Sol Ring
4x Impact Tremors
2x Panharmonicon
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
1x Eldrazi Monument
1x Mind's Eye
1x Staff of Nin
1x Possessed Portal
16x Mountain
4x Great Furnace
4x Darksteel Citadel
MaelstromPonderer: Thanks for the URL updates. Coretapper seems legit as long has you have enough targets. I'm thinking 8-12 if I do go that route. 4 Chalice, 4 Atlas, but I don't know what else. My other package would include something like 4Taurean Mauler, 4Mind Stone instead. If Wheel of Fortune was cheaper they'd definitely go in here.
slave: Reforge the Soul is the best alternative to WOF, but the 5 mana seems kind of steep at times, but it is the next best thing. And my previous draw deck was Grixis and used stuff like Notion Thief and a lot of the other cards you listed so I'm just trying to switch things up and see if red can actually do it by itself.
CadaverousBl00m: Library of Leng seems interesting. Kind of silly though to discard your hand and then get the same cards again, but I could see where it works. I know blue can do it way easy for a deck like this.
Reforge the Soul with a Psychosis Crawler out and then casting a Winds of Change for 14 a pop seems pretty slick.
4x Psychosis Crawler
2x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
Spells (29)
2x Earthquake
4x Winds of Change
1x Sol Ring
4x Mind Stone
2x Anger of the Gods
4x Molten Psyche
1x Chaos Warp
2x Teferi's Puzzle Box
1x Pyromancer's Goggles
4x Reforge the Soul
2x Runeflare Trap
4x Blasphemous Act
15x Mountain
4x Great Furnance
4x Darksteel Citadel
I may take out Runeflare Trap and add in some more ramp like Worn Powerstone so I can make 8 mana quick enough for stuff like Molten Psyche into Goblin Dark-Dwellers into another Molten Psyche right away.
Basically taking the burn aspect of red and doing it via card draw.
Creatures (10)
4x Coretapper
2x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
4x Psychosis Crawler
Spells (29)
4x Everflowing Chalice
4x Winds of Change
1x Sol Ring
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Collective Defiance
1x Chaos Warp
4x Molten Psyche
2x Otherworld Atlas
2x Teferi's Puzzle Box
1x Pyromancer's Goggles
4x Blasphemous Act
2x Runeflare Trap
2x Darksteel Citadel
4x Great Furnace
15x Mountain
Are they making changes to the new forums? Seems like half the threads are deleted including Multiplayer color guides.
Debating about doing the full 4xOtherworld Atlas in place of the box. Not sure if playing Runeflare Trap is a trap.
If you don't want to do the post route you can probably run the full 4xHour of Promise and land combo packages. Dark Depths+ Thespian's Stage, Kessig Wolf Run+ Stomping Ground/Blood Crypt, Cabal Coffers+ Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth+ Roots of Life.
Maybe replace the Satyr Wayfinder with Golgari Signet? You probably wont need many chump blockers. Maybe run 2xCrux of Fate or Decree of Pain if you're worried about creatures.
Exsanguinate is a good finisher even though its been done before. It that Betrays if you have people saccing stuff You could throw in Eye of Ugin to tutor for it. Helix Pinnacle is okay if you like I win cards. Sands of Delirium if you wanna mill out someone.
How's something like this look?
Creatures (6-8)
4 Magus of the Candelabra
2 Eternal Witness
0 Argothian Elder
Spells (27-29)
4 Elephant Grass
2 Expedition Map
4 Golgari Signet
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Torment of Hailfire
1 Roots of Life
2 Deathreap Ritual
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Crux of Fate
4 Hour of Promise
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Stomping Ground
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Golgari Guildgate
4 Golgari Rot Farm
2 Llanowar Wastes
You can still run posts and still have ~13 sources of BG.
Anything past 5 drops I run mostly colorless bombs.
1 Sire of Insanity
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Knollspine Dragon
1 Sandstone Oracle
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger