I've moved on from Eternal Scourge. I added 2x Pyrite Spellbombs back to the list and I haven't regretted it once. It felt great in 2016 but awful now. My last 3 leagues I have gone 4-1 in each and I feel Skred Red is great right now. I read a page back that skred "doesn't feel good enough right now" yet I feel that little 1cmc removal spell is as good as ever. The format is filled with dorks right now. Humans, Elves, Goblins, Hollow One, Jund, Affinity, the millions of GWx lists running around all have easy targets for Skred. This list should be running 2-3 Abrades in the 75. Card is just too good to ignore now. Both modes have targets in almost every game you play, even combo decks since they rely on artifacts. Abrade takes care of that hollow one and once you answer that on turn 1 that deck is fairly easy to beat with Skred because of Relics.
My 3 losses in 15 matches were
Goblins (im favored here but I drew the wrong half of my deck it sucked)
Colorless Eldrazi (hard match up, but actually winnable since I beat him game 2 when he had a turn 2 TKS)
Ponza (got beat 0-2 as i never drew more than 3 lands both games)
Ponza and Goblins we are favored. In those leagues I beat Humans, Hollow One, Affinity, Jund, UW Control, Jeskai Conntrol, Esper Midrange, 4c Pyromancer, Storm, Elves, Restore Balance and BW Eldrazi Taxes off the top of my head.
Would removing Eternal Scourge for Reckoner also implie we go down on Relics or is this not related ?
Scourge never had anything to do with MB relics. Skred has played MB relics almost since it's inception. It's just that creature just happened to have good synergy at the time. I personally think MB relics are still awesome and Eternal Scourge is borderline unplayable right now.
I'm not sure about Reckoner either. The format has switched heavily towards creatures with almost all decks looking to never lose to JTMS. With more creatures you would think Reckoner would be a slam dunk card. The only problem is all the creature decks are on red and Lightning Bolt is back in the format with business. Sure, it pings the player but nobody really cares. A 3cmc card is not worth just 3 dmg which is what Reckoner ends up doing most of the time. Skred plays so few creatures he's just a magnet for removal immediately. I feel like we would need more creatures than usual if you wanted to play him. Also he energizes with Volcanic Fallout.
Search for Azcanta is not too slow. As a matter of fact we have found it to be powerful enough to run as a 4 of because we absolutely want to hit it on turn 2. Some of of us have forgone Censor completely for it since it gains so much more value over the course of the game. Being able to control every draw step past turn 2 is very powerful. I had opponents commenting on how they couldn't beat it. By adding Farm and of course Aether Meltdown we still have enough early interaction that allowing early creatures resolve that Censor would normally hit is fine and we can make up for it by always hitting a sweeper on curve.
Looks good, it's an idea that's close to my idea of playing Sunscourge Champion and Fumigate main deck, and playing Settle the Wreckage and Slash of Talons in the sideboard against mono red, as well as Regal Caracal.
I don't think that the deck needs 9 wraths main deck and 4 aether meltdowns and 2 splash of talons, that's very overkill.
Also, the deck runs only 8 counters and I think that 10-12 counters are a must main deck, such as 4 Essence Scatters, 4 Censors and 2 Disallows as well as 2-3 Supreme Wills if possible.
A must now? Most Approach decks never run more than 8 counters main. It's always 4 Censor and 4 Supreme Will. People don't run counters main because of Ramunap Red. Counters are atrocious vs that deck since they can easily resolve spells through them. Censor and Supreme Will are never dead and against Temur they can actually counter things. Unless you are playing for the long game, which Approach is not then counters just lose so much value.
A couple of choices I find really interesting. The first thing that jumps out is the full 4 Stormbreaths instead of the usual 2 or 3. I guess he predicted decks with Path will be really popular?
The list also plays only 3 relics instead of 4, which is really weird to me becaue I always felt 4xMD relics are one of our greatest strenghts. This is especially weird because he plays Sweltering Suns over Anger of the Gods, so he has even less GY hate.
And the last thing is the 2x Magma Jet. From what I've seen people have been cutting it because it doesn't do anything against Shadow decks, but he just plays 2x in the main. Also he runs zero Roasts in his 75 to deal with Tasigurs and anglers. And no Ratchet bombs too!
In the sideboard he runs another interesting addition of 4x Simian Spirit Guide. This is interesting to me because most Skred lists who run Guides are chalice/bridge/BMoon lists who are all-in on the prison plan and try to cheat a gamebreaking prison piece into play.
Any thoughts on these choices?
Stormbreath should see an uptick in play because of the rise in decks that are coming back into the format to combat DS. We now have two types of Abzan decks all on Lingering Souls, some on path, some on just push and bob. Either way Stormbreath beats both. You can also get a window vs UW control and apply pressure there.
Abrades and artifact destruction slow us down but it does not stop our deck. Now that this deck is everywhere decks that run black are running 3 or 4 dispossess in the side board and we can not answer that at all. Disspossess also ruins gear hulk and monument and may even see main deck play before the end of this standard. Several decks are sideboarding in grave yard hate too. So I have a potential solution a transformational sideboard. Call me crazzy but this may actually be our best sb option. I do not have a final list yet but what could we side in if we take out the combo. So far all I know for sure is gideon. The jeskai list seems to have more sb options
No competitive deck is taking up 4 slots for Dissposses in the side. At the height of marvel I would only have at most 2 in the side.
The deck didn't seem too impressive here, when you can't get the quick God-Pharaoh's Gift into Angel the deck isn't doing much and has pretty much no interaction (M.Wanderer is sometimes relevant but rarely as a 1/1).
This build is bad. 4 Refurbish, 3 Gift and 0 Gate is not a good lineup with so many creatures. Playing a "control" game with spells is also not a direction this deck wants to go, as even Rogue Refiner and Champion of Wits are not cards that a true control deck would want to play. Cast Out and Oath of Jace are also subpar options; Angel of Sanctions synergizes with everything and does Cast Out's job while also being a respectable threat against control, and Champion of Wits alongside Wharf Infiltrator should be sufficient looting. Wharf Infiltrator and Minister have their limitations, to be sure, but they're at their best in our toughest matchups, and also help for a better goldfish which means more free wins. Remember the Infiltrator still kills a lot of mono-red's creatures which Oath of Jace obviously can't do, and can make a pretty absurd army against control. Here's my build, which achieves the sort of "robust" effect I think you're looking for by going for a midrange plan rather than a control game.
I'm not sure what build you are meaning to quote. The one you quoted was the all in version with multiple Gates.
If you're talking about the one I tested with 3x Cast Out and 3x Oath of Jace, then I still don't understand what you are saying. What control game am I playing? In that "test" build I don't run Gate because I'm under 22 creatures main deck. I'm using 4 Gifts, not 3. Oath was added because Minister was dying in a lot of match ups. It also allowed me to put a card I want in hand if I need a certain answer. Adding 3 cast out doesn't make it a control deck, it made a deck for a little interaction. This deck loses sometimes because of lack of interaction. It's doing powerful stuff but not Marvel type powerful as our engine can be interrupted quite easily so sometimes being able to answer an opposing Gifts, PW or just problematic permanent was I decided to test it. It cycles for 1 as well.
Do you have a decklist posted on here, I'd be interesting in looking at it. You take Minister out and replace him with Oath of Jace but do you replace Minister of Inquiries with a different creature just so you still have plenty of creatures in the graveyard?
So my orignal list had
4x Thraben
4x Champion of Wits
4x Angel of Invention
4x Winged Shepard (plays so good on defense)
3x Cata Gear Hulk
4x God-Pharaoah's Gift
4x Refurbish
4x Strategic Planning
3x Oath of Jace
3x Cast Out
Cast Out actually saved me twice from Key to the City and an active Nicol Bolas. Since I run 4 less creatures, and a different filter in Oath, I dropped Gate. Going down 1 Cast Out for 1 Noxious Gearhulk is also viable. The life gain is very relevant. If you do not want any interaction game 1, you can drop the Cast Outs completely and go something like 2x Sunscourage/Ariel with 1 Noxious or just 3 Sunscourage/Ariel.
I understand that, but does it have to not have access to said instants? I'm referring to the fact that the Aetherworks Marvel deck before it got banned had only 3-4 payoff cards, and the rest were all value oriented creatures and cards. It played Glimmer of Genius, and it'd certainly play something like Supreme Will now, and so on. I understand that most of these current lists that people are testing here are trying to "goldfish" or be as proactive as possible, and ignore the opponent's relevant spells as much as possible, but I feel like that's not the only possible route to go down. You could feasibly play red or other colors and more interactive spells, while incidentally winning a long game with God Pharoah's gift since it's so good in protracted grindy games as well. Just some ideas to toss around.
You could play some Rogue Refiners, Champion of Wills, and a few other powerful ETB effect creatures, but still maintain a solid beatdown or "hardcast" plan should your opponent respond to your relevant graveyard interaction. Right now, the UWx versions are able to do that to some degree, but are too all in on the combo, playing cards like Minister of Inquiries which are solely in the deck in order to fuel the combo. I don't think cards like that are actually helping evolve the deck, but shoehorning it into a "gotta go fast" mentality.
It could definitely be possible that going down this route is foolish, but I firmly believe that Champion of Wills + God Pharoah's Gift is enough payoff if you play enough interactive elements early game. Mono Red might still be an issue, but you'd stave off certain death while maybe winning the game later.
I could see a RUG deck built around this concept, red for removal and abrade, blue for champion and glimmer/supreme will and sideboard countermagic, and green for mana and sideboard interaction. If white remains, it'd be for solely having Angel of Invention because of how swingy the card is, but you could feasibly have minimal actual raw white sources should you need to hardcast it, as well as possibly still having Refurbish. Servant of the Conduit would certainly help with that. Your deck would be overall more robust and have the ability to play games without God Pharaoh's Gift, but also be very powerful should that plan go undisrupted or if your opponent can't play around it anymore.
But white is the main color. Angel of Invention is the main reason to run the deck. It has the highest power level in Standard currently. Being able to put a 6/6 flying/haste/vigilant/life-linker in play is the reason to play it. Cards like Refurbish make it easier and gives the deck resilience vs Abrade. Even a turn 4 Cata gearhulk is good in the era of mono-red everything. The deck just needs tweaks. Red would be awesome for the deck since sweltering suns would be a godsend as would magma spray. However the lands are very awkward and blue does a better job of filling the gy. Sure red has Reunion but Champion of Wits is by far a better card.
My Minister version has struggled more compared to my Oath of Jace version. With Oath of Jace and a few different cards I've gone 4-1 and 5-0 in league. With Minister I've gone 2-3 and 3-2. Oath of Jace has done a better overall job since I get to keep a card. It could just be that the deck might need to start main decking some Sunscourage champions and Ariel Responders instead of Wanderer and whatever other creatures you have. I'm playing Mono Red at least 3 times in each league. For some reason I was able to beat it better with Oath. It gives a back up plan that allows you to cast your creatures if need be and Sunscourage and Wits have eternalize and I've discovered UR control hates those type of cards.
I've found myself struggling to support Dispel. I guess with multiple ways to keep getting gifts on board I decided to play more creatures in the side but also trying Authority of Consul. I also added Kefnet's Last Word to test.
How has Authority of Consuls been working for you? I'm thinking of dropping the counter magic myself and just adding answers. I've found I don't care at all if they Abrade me. I just get it back.
My 3 losses in 15 matches were
Goblins (im favored here but I drew the wrong half of my deck it sucked)
Colorless Eldrazi (hard match up, but actually winnable since I beat him game 2 when he had a turn 2 TKS)
Ponza (got beat 0-2 as i never drew more than 3 lands both games)
Ponza and Goblins we are favored. In those leagues I beat Humans, Hollow One, Affinity, Jund, UW Control, Jeskai Conntrol, Esper Midrange, 4c Pyromancer, Storm, Elves, Restore Balance and BW Eldrazi Taxes off the top of my head.
Scourge never had anything to do with MB relics. Skred has played MB relics almost since it's inception. It's just that creature just happened to have good synergy at the time. I personally think MB relics are still awesome and Eternal Scourge is borderline unplayable right now.
I'm not sure about Reckoner either. The format has switched heavily towards creatures with almost all decks looking to never lose to JTMS. With more creatures you would think Reckoner would be a slam dunk card. The only problem is all the creature decks are on red and Lightning Bolt is back in the format with business. Sure, it pings the player but nobody really cares. A 3cmc card is not worth just 3 dmg which is what Reckoner ends up doing most of the time. Skred plays so few creatures he's just a magnet for removal immediately. I feel like we would need more creatures than usual if you wanted to play him. Also he energizes with Volcanic Fallout.
A must now? Most Approach decks never run more than 8 counters main. It's always 4 Censor and 4 Supreme Will. People don't run counters main because of Ramunap Red. Counters are atrocious vs that deck since they can easily resolve spells through them. Censor and Supreme Will are never dead and against Temur they can actually counter things. Unless you are playing for the long game, which Approach is not then counters just lose so much value.
Stormbreath should see an uptick in play because of the rise in decks that are coming back into the format to combat DS. We now have two types of Abzan decks all on Lingering Souls, some on path, some on just push and bob. Either way Stormbreath beats both. You can also get a window vs UW control and apply pressure there.
No competitive deck is taking up 4 slots for Dissposses in the side. At the height of marvel I would only have at most 2 in the side.
I'm not sure what build you are meaning to quote. The one you quoted was the all in version with multiple Gates.
If you're talking about the one I tested with 3x Cast Out and 3x Oath of Jace, then I still don't understand what you are saying. What control game am I playing? In that "test" build I don't run Gate because I'm under 22 creatures main deck. I'm using 4 Gifts, not 3. Oath was added because Minister was dying in a lot of match ups. It also allowed me to put a card I want in hand if I need a certain answer. Adding 3 cast out doesn't make it a control deck, it made a deck for a little interaction. This deck loses sometimes because of lack of interaction. It's doing powerful stuff but not Marvel type powerful as our engine can be interrupted quite easily so sometimes being able to answer an opposing Gifts, PW or just problematic permanent was I decided to test it. It cycles for 1 as well.
So my orignal list had
4x Thraben
4x Champion of Wits
4x Angel of Invention
4x Winged Shepard (plays so good on defense)
3x Cata Gear Hulk
4x God-Pharaoah's Gift
4x Refurbish
4x Strategic Planning
3x Oath of Jace
3x Cast Out
Cast Out actually saved me twice from Key to the City and an active Nicol Bolas. Since I run 4 less creatures, and a different filter in Oath, I dropped Gate. Going down 1 Cast Out for 1 Noxious Gearhulk is also viable. The life gain is very relevant. If you do not want any interaction game 1, you can drop the Cast Outs completely and go something like 2x Sunscourage/Ariel with 1 Noxious or just 3 Sunscourage/Ariel.
But white is the main color. Angel of Invention is the main reason to run the deck. It has the highest power level in Standard currently. Being able to put a 6/6 flying/haste/vigilant/life-linker in play is the reason to play it. Cards like Refurbish make it easier and gives the deck resilience vs Abrade. Even a turn 4 Cata gearhulk is good in the era of mono-red everything. The deck just needs tweaks. Red would be awesome for the deck since sweltering suns would be a godsend as would magma spray. However the lands are very awkward and blue does a better job of filling the gy. Sure red has Reunion but Champion of Wits is by far a better card.
My Minister version has struggled more compared to my Oath of Jace version. With Oath of Jace and a few different cards I've gone 4-1 and 5-0 in league. With Minister I've gone 2-3 and 3-2. Oath of Jace has done a better overall job since I get to keep a card. It could just be that the deck might need to start main decking some Sunscourage champions and Ariel Responders instead of Wanderer and whatever other creatures you have. I'm playing Mono Red at least 3 times in each league. For some reason I was able to beat it better with Oath. It gives a back up plan that allows you to cast your creatures if need be and Sunscourage and Wits have eternalize and I've discovered UR control hates those type of cards.