The list is credited to Todd Anderson from the SCG video/article about the deck. That's the earliest I remember seeing the list after he 4-0'd the MTGO Modern Daily with it. The one played at the GP looks 90% similar to that initial list, with a few modifications for the metagame.
I suggest including 4 Silence in the 75. If you're going to be facing a high combo turn out, then Silence gives you more disruption and protection against those decks.
Don't know if it's the correct forum, but I saw some discussions over Jan van der Vegt his Tinfist deck, do you guys think that is the perfect mana curve for the deck? I wonder why he isn't using 8 fetches to combine all the mana pieces he needs? I feel gemstone mine and City of Brass are pretty weak compared to duals with fetches.
Is this a budget thing or can someone explain to me why I should use Gemstone / Brass?
My experience has been that Gemstone Mine is indeed weak. Granted, I run the Grixis 3c version, so it's much easier to fix the mana base for that. That is part of the reason why I dislike the 5c Fist of Suns take - it's very difficult to finesse the mana base to cast all its enablers correctly. Even the Jund Necrotic Ooze version has a much tougher mana base to crack than its Grixis cousin. The reason for it is due to Deathrite Shaman and Lotleth Troll demand a high amount of B/G duals, while still casting Faithless Looting and Lightning Axe with regularity; all while managing your life total to be able to use Griselbrand's -7.
Short answer - it's complicated to get right, and certainly not easy. Good luck!
I don't think that deck can be called "Griselbrand Reanimator" when your main plan is to use Fist of Suns to cast Emrakul.
Perhaps the title of this thread should be changed.
Seems to me that it's still about Griselbrand (+Emrakul) and Reanimation to me. In fact, his turn 2 win was exactly the "Reanimator" plan. Main plan = 4x of a card in maindeck, yes?
My post was tongue-in-cheek. It's to illustrate that just because someone doesn't like how a creature changes up and shakes up the format is not a valid reason to ban it. Those three creatures have arguably done more to change Legacy than just a 3/1 unblockable.
People wanted Vengevine, Griselbrand, and most recently Deathrite Shaman banned for power level reasons. Why should DCI ban True-name Nemesis before these three "offenders"?
Hi, i'm not a tin fins player, but i like it and a friend of mine built One leaving apart his reanimator for a while. He began with ub tin fin, with fow. Was good, turn 1-2 win. Then, under my advice, he changed on traditional esper tin fins with the children. Since then, he never won, and We played many games! He was never able to find the combo pieces and was really vlnerable to mana base and protecting the combo. Is the white splash necessary? Did he lose because harder to manage? Dont know, but the ub seemed more consisten and more explosive! (He swintched to ub and kept winning again, just luck?)
The white splash is more difficult to play, but more powerful if played correctly. The added sideboard cards make the difference here.
226 players today. The last time SCG ran an Open in the Bay Area, there were only 116 players in Sacramento (March 2012). Attendance numbers have increased by leaps and bounds.
Sacremento and Oakland are very different locales in Northern California. Sacremento is basically a large city in the middle of farm country. Oakland is a stone's throw from San Francisco, and accessible by public transportation. I would bet every day of the week that Oakland would get higher attendance than Sacremento.
Not going to lie, I'm kind of new to legacy as in I have never played against hermit druid or survival of the fittest ever.
Why where those cards banned?
Hermit Druid is a one card combo in the same vein as Balestrade Spy / Undercity Informer. The benefit is that you can play lands, and therefore Brainstorm. Force of Will is also a natural inclusion.
Survival of the Fittest is a hyper-charged Fauna Shaman. Tutoring every turn (and multiple times a turn) for a simple :g: cost is too powerful in Legacy.
Hermit has the dredge strategy, kind like the oops all spells, but now you just need a turn and and this creature. I know balance is busted, but is there any way to break the format with it? On the bright side it is good vs TNN haha
Are 4-for-1's for 2 mana good?
Is Armageddon+Wrath+Mind Twist all in one card good?
i thought that you shouldnt keep hands with no mana ever with a deck like this.
Whoops, I was in a rush. You can keep hands without lands in them, provided all you're missing is 1 mana to go off. Such as Lotus Petal x2, Entomb, Shallow Grave. Or Dark Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave, but missing an initial mana source.
Then there is your problem. One reads pay 1 life: draw card, your max hand size is 7. The other is pay 7 life: draw 7 cards. While you can reduce the cards to having the same effect they do not function that way. It is misleading to think that way.
Necro was the first when card draw for life wasn't a known powerful effect. It exploded when it was realized. Bargain was the "fixed" necro, and it was stronger in every way. Griselbrand is the latest incarnation. It is stronger then necro still and different enough from bargain that it doesn't come off as broken as bargain but still on par with it. With that kind of genealogy it amazes me that, while necro is easier to cast, it is also the weakest of the group that people seem terrified of.
You're still not understanding the power of drawing multiple cards per turn. Necro decks having a "7 card limit" is not the limiting factor with Necro decks. You will ALWAYS have dead cards you can discard (lands, redundant combo pieces, etc). Necro is by far the strongest in the class of <Black, permanent based, draw engines>
Every single threshold deck would be jamming frantic search as well as every delver list. Any tempo deck would love 4 free dig spells. I would welcome frantic search back into the format.
This is objectively wrong. Tempo decks would not play Frantic Search ever. The card is always -1 Card Advantage: Cast Frantic search (-1), Draw two cards (+2), discard two cards (-2). It is a combo card. It would help High Tide (generates mana while digging through land draws), Reanimator strategies (as a way to discard), and possibly some other graveyard based deck. Its 3 mana cost makes it not useful in Tempo (i.e., Delver) decks. If they are not playing Careful Study right now, they would certainly not play Frantic Search.
If you're going with my stock 61/14:
3 Silence
2 Serenity
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Massacre
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Pithing Needle
My experience has been that Gemstone Mine is indeed weak. Granted, I run the Grixis 3c version, so it's much easier to fix the mana base for that. That is part of the reason why I dislike the 5c Fist of Suns take - it's very difficult to finesse the mana base to cast all its enablers correctly. Even the Jund Necrotic Ooze version has a much tougher mana base to crack than its Grixis cousin. The reason for it is due to Deathrite Shaman and Lotleth Troll demand a high amount of B/G duals, while still casting Faithless Looting and Lightning Axe with regularity; all while managing your life total to be able to use Griselbrand's -7.
Short answer - it's complicated to get right, and certainly not easy. Good luck!
Seems to me that it's still about Griselbrand (+Emrakul) and Reanimation to me. In fact, his turn 2 win was exactly the "Reanimator" plan. Main plan = 4x of a card in maindeck, yes?
Reanimator if you want to win prizes.
Goryo's/Fury version playtesting, leading into Grand Prix San Diego March 2013:
http://www.twitch.tv/jkory/b/377894223
My match/Game 2 in Round 11 of Grand Prix San Diego:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa2KMK3whuw&t=13m30s
I wasn't aware WotC had a piece of the secondary card market. Do sets have an MSRP now? Where can I buy a set of Theros from WotC?
Either WotC needs to keep it at <not declared value> or declare its value, and offer it for sale.
They can't have both pieces of the pie.
The white splash is more difficult to play, but more powerful if played correctly. The added sideboard cards make the difference here.
Sacremento and Oakland are very different locales in Northern California. Sacremento is basically a large city in the middle of farm country. Oakland is a stone's throw from San Francisco, and accessible by public transportation. I would bet every day of the week that Oakland would get higher attendance than Sacremento.
Hermit Druid is a one card combo in the same vein as Balestrade Spy / Undercity Informer. The benefit is that you can play lands, and therefore Brainstorm. Force of Will is also a natural inclusion.
Survival of the Fittest is a hyper-charged Fauna Shaman. Tutoring every turn (and multiple times a turn) for a simple :g: cost is too powerful in Legacy.
Are 4-for-1's for 2 mana good?
Is Armageddon+Wrath+Mind Twist all in one card good?
Seems like a no brainer to me.
This was my list from March 2013. I would say it's very clunky. Check my blog for an updated list: mtgkoby.wordpress.com
Whoops, I was in a rush. You can keep hands without lands in them, provided all you're missing is 1 mana to go off. Such as Lotus Petal x2, Entomb, Shallow Grave. Or Dark Ritual, Entomb, Shallow Grave, but missing an initial mana source.
Technically, it was Greed, but who's counting?
You're still not understanding the power of drawing multiple cards per turn. Necro decks having a "7 card limit" is not the limiting factor with Necro decks. You will ALWAYS have dead cards you can discard (lands, redundant combo pieces, etc). Necro is by far the strongest in the class of <Black, permanent based, draw engines>
This is objectively wrong. Tempo decks would not play Frantic Search ever. The card is always -1 Card Advantage: Cast Frantic search (-1), Draw two cards (+2), discard two cards (-2). It is a combo card. It would help High Tide (generates mana while digging through land draws), Reanimator strategies (as a way to discard), and possibly some other graveyard based deck. Its 3 mana cost makes it not useful in Tempo (i.e., Delver) decks. If they are not playing Careful Study right now, they would certainly not play Frantic Search.