I still wanted to have an effect that somewhat Fog'd our opponents but 2 was too many. The cut was either Kami of False Hope or Children of Korlis. I chose to cut the children because in an instance where our opponent has lethal damage we won't be able to survive with the children. It does combo with Necropotence but I chose the safer route with Kami. I decided that I needed another non-mana intenseive sac outlet and I chose Carrion Feeder. We could make infinite mana with Ashnod's Altar...but this deck isn't primed to abuse it. At least Carrion Feeder has the potential to be an infinite +1+1 counter beatstick and is searchable with Recruiter of the Guard.
I currently do not own a Volrath's Stronghold but I do have a Winding Canyons that looks abusable. Turning our ETB creatures into instant speed removal for 3 extra mana(with the help of tapping 3 lands....don't forget we also have to tap the Canyons) has been great in testing. Our low curve means we will be getting an instant speed creature for at least 5 or 6 mana.
My initial thoughts were very similar to yours bear. Cards like Dark Confidant/Phyrexian Arena have been all stars in the list. Allowing us to find a dense number of Hatebears. The low cmc of this list is definitely one of its most strongest points.
If this was a 1v1 list I would definitely slot in Armageddon. But my only beef is that I have to recover against 3+ players. With the low cmc curve I may be able to get there against one opponent, but then the table will surely stack up against Athreos. I plan on getting a game in tonight. I will post the results and look for any times I would have liked to have Armageddon. Keep the ideas flowing I love it.
I wanted an effect like this to be stapled on a creature. But I wanted that same effect to hit both Artifacts and Enchantments. The leonin does this immediately (with some drawback when getting removed) and the Unicorn was a little too slow.
I have a question for the masses (if they see this). When playing a hatebear style like this that is low to the ground, how much ramp do we then need?
I am starting to lower the curve even further. I felt without Nim Deathmantle I wasn't able to utilize the TItan for his combo potentials. If I miss the big beats I will throw him back in. I feel like Reanimate is a B staple. There will always be a value creature I can grab from my yard and thinking of what my opponents may have has me salivating.
Sorry Bear. I will eventually get to the Contamination cut once I obtain one. I think I will even be throwing Bitterblossom in as well. Allowing me sac fodder will be nice.
I will look into the landbase to see if I can tweak anything. I appreciate all the input, Bear.
My meta is definitely competitive/casual. We each have our main decks that are powerful and then secondary decks which are still competitive but more obscure commanders. I will eventually have a section dedicated to it in the primer. My meta looks like this (from main to secondaries):
Each one of these decks has their fair share of wins (I hate to admit it...even the group hug has found a way to squeak wins in). As a group we are able to identify the threat quite easily. There is a lot of U but we also have a good amount of variety.
I like the move for Pongify...you have inspired me. I currently want to put Rapid Hybridization in my list for a total of 3 spot removal cards (Pongify, Rapid Hybrid, Reality Shift). I am very much in love with critter-Teferi. Convince me why you took him out? Mana cost? More lack of blue meta?
Evacuation is definitely a good card and I played it for a very long time, but I will probably revisit any and all board wipes at this point. Engulf the Shore is even on the consideration board since most relevant creatures have a power of 4 or less, which is fairly decent.
Although I play a hatebear style Athreos, God of Passage deck (found here) I think he would also be a great cleric commander (or at least in the 99).
I came here to recommend the Edgewalker + Children of Korlis interaction. In my early days of playing Athreos I dabbled with a cleric-hatebear version and found that it had legs. I just prefer a more goodstuff hatebear variant.
I'd also recommend Jolt's Church of Athreos deck on youtube. It is a cleric tribal deck and it looks like a lot of fun.
The Priest dos not effect the board immediately and it needs our opponent to interact with us to do anything. Debt to the Deathless was a fun game ender that provided us with life. It did not mesh with the strategy completely but I can see it coming back someday. As of right now I do not miss it.
Bob is too good not to put in. Especially when our cmc averages at 2.73-2.77. I wanted an effect like Peackeeper's in the deck. Especially one that allows us to turn it off. The cumulative upkeep clause of 1W is a strength, not a weakness.
I am in the current process of trying to figure out how I want to squeeze Contamination in. I so badly wish this effect was on a creature. I am looking at Grave Titan for possible cuts.
I would keep either the Kami or the Children. I like having 1 of these effects. The pros to Kami is that it stops attacks while children of korlis combo with Necropotence. I have to get the damage first before using children's effect so its worse when being attacked.
I was looking at cutting Helm for Preacher. I wan't at least 1 of these effects in the list. I have to wait a turn with preacher (he is a creature), but the helm costs 1 more, can be activated the turn it comes down and requires us to sac. Or would it be beneficial to run both?
edit: Woah, just read Preacher again. I did not realize our opponent got to choose...perhaps this card doesn't make the cut.
The thing I don't like about Wash Out is that its a bounce and not destroy (we are in mono U so I understand). At least it hits all the permanents of that color. I used to play Evacuation as a combat trick but I found the bounce to not be that huge of a plus. Granted, I normally play multiplayer games.
Thanks, bear. I will be tweaking with grammar, etc. in the coming weeks. I look forward to seeing how the deck changes. The images look good on my end. I'll look into it. Is anyone else having a problem?
I like Contamination a lot. I think it would be awesome to pair it with Bitterblossom. I think the hard thing is finding room. What cuts would you suggest?
So I've been playing against my friend's competitive Flying Men Edric deck, and it seems stupidly fast and tempo-oriented. It has the counterspell package that it needs in order to disrupt our plays and can generate a board presence in the blink of an eye. Then, with its cheap CMC general, it creates more card advantage than I've ever seen a non-Ad Nauseam deck generate. Has anyone had experience playing Wash Out or other cheap board wipes in blue? It might be time to put Oblivion Stone back in.
That Edric deck sounds tasty. I have had zero experience with Wash Out but it could be good. It wouldn't be as effective in my meta but it could work in yours.
I love O-stone. I feel like the ability to be easily searchable and abused with Academy Ruins makes it worth a spot. Even if the stone blows up our own mana rocks at times.
The Map has been a great catch all for me. Especially when my list plays Maze of Ith.
*Changelog Update
10/13/2017
Out: Children of Korlis, Volrath's Stronghold
In: Carrion Feeder, Winding Canyons
I still wanted to have an effect that somewhat Fog'd our opponents but 2 was too many. The cut was either Kami of False Hope or Children of Korlis. I chose to cut the children because in an instance where our opponent has lethal damage we won't be able to survive with the children. It does combo with Necropotence but I chose the safer route with Kami. I decided that I needed another non-mana intenseive sac outlet and I chose Carrion Feeder. We could make infinite mana with Ashnod's Altar...but this deck isn't primed to abuse it. At least Carrion Feeder has the potential to be an infinite +1+1 counter beatstick and is searchable with Recruiter of the Guard.
I currently do not own a Volrath's Stronghold but I do have a Winding Canyons that looks abusable. Turning our ETB creatures into instant speed removal for 3 extra mana(with the help of tapping 3 lands....don't forget we also have to tap the Canyons) has been great in testing. Our low curve means we will be getting an instant speed creature for at least 5 or 6 mana.
If this was a 1v1 list I would definitely slot in Armageddon. But my only beef is that I have to recover against 3+ players. With the low cmc curve I may be able to get there against one opponent, but then the table will surely stack up against Athreos. I plan on getting a game in tonight. I will post the results and look for any times I would have liked to have Armageddon. Keep the ideas flowing I love it.
Here I am just wishing I could slot it in to my Jaya Ballard, Task Mage deck
10/9/2017
Out: Capashen Unicorn
In: Leonin Relic-Warder
I wanted an effect like this to be stapled on a creature. But I wanted that same effect to hit both Artifacts and Enchantments. The leonin does this immediately (with some drawback when getting removed) and the Unicorn was a little too slow.
I have a question for the masses (if they see this). When playing a hatebear style like this that is low to the ground, how much ramp do we then need?
10/6/2017
Out: Grave Titan
In: Reanimate
I am starting to lower the curve even further. I felt without Nim Deathmantle I wasn't able to utilize the TItan for his combo potentials. If I miss the big beats I will throw him back in. I feel like Reanimate is a B staple. There will always be a value creature I can grab from my yard and thinking of what my opponents may have has me salivating.
Sorry Bear. I will eventually get to the Contamination cut once I obtain one. I think I will even be throwing Bitterblossom in as well. Allowing me sac fodder will be nice.
My meta is definitely competitive/casual. We each have our main decks that are powerful and then secondary decks which are still competitive but more obscure commanders. I will eventually have a section dedicated to it in the primer. My meta looks like this (from main to secondaries):
MuzzleMuffin:
Memnarch: Mono U Artifact Combo,
Jaya Ballard, Task Mage: Mono R Control,
Athreos, God of Passage: WB Hatebears
Player 1:
Zur the Enchanter: WUB Enchantment Goodstuff,
Marrow-Gnawer: Mono B Relentless Rats.dec,
Karona, False God: WUBRG Walls
Player 2:
Mayael the Anima: WRG Ramp/Big Beats,
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary: UG Creature Toolbox/Combo,
Rishkar, Peema Renegade: Mono G +1+1 Counters/Dork Tribal *Building Process*
Player 3:
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic: WUB Storm Combo/Control,
Karador, Ghost Chieftain: WBG Birthing Pod Critter Combo,
Nahiri, the Lithomancer: Mono W White Weenie Equipment Aggro
Player 4:
Oloro, Ageless Ascetic: WUB All of the Answers Control,
Oros, the Avenger: WBR Board Wipe Control,
Phelddagrif: WUG Group Hug
Each one of these decks has their fair share of wins (I hate to admit it...even the group hug has found a way to squeak wins in). As a group we are able to identify the threat quite easily. There is a lot of U but we also have a good amount of variety.
There is a lot to consider with each wipe. So far I like Oblivion Stone, Wash Out, Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Nevinyrral's Disk, All Is Dust, Aetherize, Aetherspouts....Cyclonic Rift doesn't really need mentioning...Let me know how your tests go. The only wipes I currently run is the O-stone, All is Dust, and Cyclonic Rift.
Being mono U normally means we are a little prone to creature strategies. I could see 1v1 being a heavy task for Memnarch.
I came here to recommend the Edgewalker + Children of Korlis interaction. In my early days of playing Athreos I dabbled with a cleric-hatebear version and found that it had legs. I just prefer a more goodstuff hatebear variant.
I'd also recommend Jolt's Church of Athreos deck on youtube. It is a cleric tribal deck and it looks like a lot of fun.
9/28/2017
Out: High Priest of Penance, Debt to the Deathless
In: Dark Confidant, Peacekeeper
The Priest dos not effect the board immediately and it needs our opponent to interact with us to do anything. Debt to the Deathless was a fun game ender that provided us with life. It did not mesh with the strategy completely but I can see it coming back someday. As of right now I do not miss it.
Bob is too good not to put in. Especially when our cmc averages at 2.73-2.77. I wanted an effect like Peackeeper's in the deck. Especially one that allows us to turn it off. The cumulative upkeep clause of 1W is a strength, not a weakness.
I am in the current process of trying to figure out how I want to squeeze Contamination in. I so badly wish this effect was on a creature. I am looking at Grave Titan for possible cuts.
I would keep either the Kami or the Children. I like having 1 of these effects. The pros to Kami is that it stops attacks while children of korlis combo with Necropotence. I have to get the damage first before using children's effect so its worse when being attacked.
I was looking at cutting Helm for Preacher. I wan't at least 1 of these effects in the list. I have to wait a turn with preacher (he is a creature), but the helm costs 1 more, can be activated the turn it comes down and requires us to sac. Or would it be beneficial to run both?
edit: Woah, just read Preacher again. I did not realize our opponent got to choose...perhaps this card doesn't make the cut.
The thing I don't like about Wash Out is that its a bounce and not destroy (we are in mono U so I understand). At least it hits all the permanents of that color. I used to play Evacuation as a combat trick but I found the bounce to not be that huge of a plus. Granted, I normally play multiplayer games.
I like Contamination a lot. I think it would be awesome to pair it with Bitterblossom. I think the hard thing is finding room. What cuts would you suggest?
That Edric deck sounds tasty. I have had zero experience with Wash Out but it could be good. It wouldn't be as effective in my meta but it could work in yours.
I love O-stone. I feel like the ability to be easily searchable and abused with Academy Ruins makes it worth a spot. Even if the stone blows up our own mana rocks at times.