Refute, Muzzlemuffin has played Sunder more than I, so he would have more of the feedback that I think you're looking for. Muzzle, what are your thoughts? From my perspective, it's a good card to run because, as you've noted, we generally pull ahead in mana rocks and a well-timed Sunder can just bury people. I think I would just prefer to answer the threats that the lands generate if I can or steal their mana base if I can't. It's a good card that's worthy to run in this list but depends on preference. I'm not particularly enamored of it.
Hey Refute, welcome to the discussion. My initial list ran Sunder and in the early days the card was a house. I would sometimes use it to completely screw over any blue opponent (by using it at the end of their turn usually forcing them to discard almost all their land) to ensure that I could combo off with the mana rocks on my next turn. Perhaps it is because my group is getting wiser, but it hasn't been resolving lately and when I find it early, I just wish it was something else. Feel free to test it. I think its a great card when considering its protection (semi protection more like it) for our combos. But as of right now Jace, the Mind Sculptor is occupying its spot.
Also my play group is as following (First commander on list is my opponents "main":
There is a lot of blue in our playgroup. Most of the lists are pretty competitive with their own tweeks. I agree with bear, I am envious of the lack of blue in your group. Sounds like Memdaddy would be all over it.
Yeah, spoiler season. So glad that for just about every single card that happens to be in Scapeshift colors someone comes along to start a "discussion". Thing in the Ice, Arlinn Kord, seriously? You people must not be playing the same deck as everyone else...
I mean...new cards are interesting? As long as people are constructive with their analysis/feedback I don't think its a huge deal. If someone said "Yo, Thing in the Ice good?" Then I would get your point. But if they offer a little sustenance to their post I think it makes a good read.
But back to Arlinn Kord, yeah I see your point Oddalicious. I guess she will more of a Naya Zoo/Jund thing.
What does everyone think of Arlinn Kord? At first glance I definitely disapproved of her in a deck with Scapeshift, but on second glance I am trying to see if I missed anything. The main sequences I see control decks using her are, +0, -1, +0, -1, etc. The +0 keeps her in bolt range so perhaps that is too much of a weakness. She is also not searchable with BtL. I could see her shoring up some of the midrange match ups but my overall opinion is I do not think she progresses our game plan enough. She could possibly help us stabilize. Perhaps this isn't good enough for what we want.
I thought about Arcum when I was first crafting my list. Arcum is a way better commander than he is as a 1 of in the list. Being able to consistently drop Arcum when you need to is his strength. I have always played my list as control, then combo. Being able to accelerate extremely quickly allows us to hit the switch and go all out for the combos if we need to. Control is always a priority. The combos just happen naturally with Memnarch, from my experience.
One of the reasons I didn't like him was the lightning rod like effect he has on the board state. I played a few 1 on 1 games against a friends Marchesa, the Black Rose combo (definitely janky) deck. We played the best of 3 games. I was able to ramp fast, cast a Memdaddy and start stealing lands. He couldn't really recover from that. Game 2 and 3 I was able to Fabricate, Muddle the Mixture, and Mystical Tutor for combo pieces and win. He dropped a lot of mass draw artifact cards that also benefited me in the early turns. In his defense he was playing a group hugish combo deck that is mostly tuned for multiplayer. He really had no chance from the beginning.
With some more testing I have found that I have decided to cut the Sunder for a Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Sunder wasn't performing like it has in the past and I think it was time to part ways. As of lately its just been sitting in my hand. WIth Jace, I understand as soon as I play him he may die in the next few turns. But if he is able to stick around and at least give me 2 activations it will be great. Repeatable brainstorm is something I could get behind. Will continue my testing with him.
All is Dust has been great for me. Yes we lose a few colored things but the wording of "sacrifice" makes it one of the best sweepers for an artifact deck in my opinion.
I have been looking into Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I have one that has gone unused for quite awhile and seeing him with 4 relevant repeatable abilities looks great. What is your opinion on him? He looks like an All-Star. i will find room to test him out.
When I think of artifact based draw spell I guess you could consider Temple Bell. I dont like any of the artifacts that give your opponents cards but I think this is the best one of those. At least you can do it at your last opponents end step so you have access to the card with full mana? I'm still not a fan of it really.
Good update. I will try to brainstorm for some more card ideas.
I was originally told Serum Visions was a card Scapeshift did not want. I feel like this deck wants to dig farther. But after reading more I will be testing out a list with the Visions. I am more of a RUG player who is starting to test the BtL versions to see if I like them. Here is the list with Serum Visions I will be testing
I used to run 3-4 Peer Through Depths. But I have found that not being able to grab a much needed Land, Snap or Steve is very unfortunate.
So I have an idea. I am considering running 1x Swamp and 4x Worldly Counsel; and zero Bring to Light. It seems too cute but I may be interested in this. At worst Worldly Counsel has always been an Anticipate. And I like knowing that I do not have to reveal like I do with Peer Through Depths. Casting an Impulse seems great. And with this black splash you should never feel like you have to force it.
Cool. Crypt it is. I also want to know how your testing of Invoke Prejudice goes.
As for foil Memnarch...totally worth it. I think mine was 11+ dollars? Its been awhile since I got it. Right now they are sitting at $18.00 (US) for TCG low.
I 100% agree about the commander. I have had the same question pointed at me before. I have always had an affinity for taking control of people's stuff in card games. Memnarch lets me continue to do this; even act as a win con in some of the infinite combos.
I am currently in the market for a Mana Crypt. I know its busted, but how has it been for you? I feel like the 3 damage doesn't matter too much. So the next card I plan on squeezing in is this one...or would you recommend I pull the trigger on Mana Drain? Which of these has had a larger impact on your games?
Keep on Mem-daddying. As of now my two generals are Memnarch and Diaochan, Artful Beauty. With Memnarch being priority numero uno.
My group is apart (due to schooling, careers, etc.) at the moment. So as soon as I get a game in i'll give a quick update.
If you do go to a more artifact based version I 100% endorse Metalworker. If my memnarch list ran more artifacts it would be an auto slam. Would you want a Vedalken Orrery? Or is the Shimmer Myr more of what you want? I feel like you already operate quite well at instant speed so perhaps the Myr is good enough. And since you have some infinite mana combos. I feel like you have to include Staff of Domination. Going infinite with Metalworker and 3+ artifacts in hand seems so tasty.
Nice work bear. I like knowing Memnarch has a pretty sweet primer.
I have a question concerning Counterbalance. How effective has it been? Is it hard to provide a lock with Top in the EDH format? It looks awesome but i'm worried that with all the varying mana costs edh has it might not be so great. Have any thoughts or insights you could share? I am looking into one for my list.
In all honesty, all of my games with my group Time Warp has been meh. Occasionally its allowed me to ramp by one land and cast something relevant. The times where it has been good is when it infinite turns combo with Archaeomancer + Deadeye/Riptide Laboratory. I think its a strong effect for 5 mana.
I am playing Snow-Covered Mountain along with the usual suspects (Scrying Sheets, Extraplanar Lens, etc,) and they have been doing great.
Hey Refute, welcome to the discussion. My initial list ran Sunder and in the early days the card was a house. I would sometimes use it to completely screw over any blue opponent (by using it at the end of their turn usually forcing them to discard almost all their land) to ensure that I could combo off with the mana rocks on my next turn. Perhaps it is because my group is getting wiser, but it hasn't been resolving lately and when I find it early, I just wish it was something else. Feel free to test it. I think its a great card when considering its protection (semi protection more like it) for our combos. But as of right now Jace, the Mind Sculptor is occupying its spot.
Also my play group is as following (First commander on list is my opponents "main":
Player 1: Zur the Enchanter, Marrow-Gnawer, Karona, False God
Player 2: Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, Karador, Ghost Chieftain, Nahiri, the Lithomancer
Player 3: Momir Vig, Simic Visionary, Mayael the Anima
Player 5: Oloro, Ageless Ascetic, Phelddagrif
Player 6: Nicol Bolas
Player 7: Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
Me: Memnarch, Diaochan, Artful Beauty
There is a lot of blue in our playgroup. Most of the lists are pretty competitive with their own tweeks. I agree with bear, I am envious of the lack of blue in your group. Sounds like Memdaddy would be all over it.
I mean...new cards are interesting? As long as people are constructive with their analysis/feedback I don't think its a huge deal. If someone said "Yo, Thing in the Ice good?" Then I would get your point. But if they offer a little sustenance to their post I think it makes a good read.
But back to Arlinn Kord, yeah I see your point Oddalicious. I guess she will more of a Naya Zoo/Jund thing.
What does everyone think of Arlinn Kord? At first glance I definitely disapproved of her in a deck with Scapeshift, but on second glance I am trying to see if I missed anything. The main sequences I see control decks using her are, +0, -1, +0, -1, etc. The +0 keeps her in bolt range so perhaps that is too much of a weakness. She is also not searchable with BtL. I could see her shoring up some of the midrange match ups but my overall opinion is I do not think she progresses our game plan enough. She could possibly help us stabilize. Perhaps this isn't good enough for what we want.
Thoughts?
Overall I like the cuts, even if I am still playing most of the things you cut. I like that you basically put in the same effect. Seems good to me.
With some more testing I have found that I have decided to cut the Sunder for a Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Sunder wasn't performing like it has in the past and I think it was time to part ways. As of lately its just been sitting in my hand. WIth Jace, I understand as soon as I play him he may die in the next few turns. But if he is able to stick around and at least give me 2 activations it will be great. Repeatable brainstorm is something I could get behind. Will continue my testing with him.
I have been looking into Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I have one that has gone unused for quite awhile and seeing him with 4 relevant repeatable abilities looks great. What is your opinion on him? He looks like an All-Star. i will find room to test him out.
Good update. I will try to brainstorm for some more card ideas.
2x Breeding Pool
3x Island
1x Flooded Grove
2x Forest
1x Desolate Lighthouse
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Stomping Ground
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Sorcery
4x Scapeshift
4x Search for Tomorrow
4x Serum Visions
1x Anger of the Gods
4x Cryptic Command
1x Electrolyze
1x Into the Roil
1x Izzet Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
1x Repeal
Creature
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Negate
4x Obstinate Baloth
1x Shatterstorm
1x Spellskite
I used to run 3-4 Peer Through Depths. But I have found that not being able to grab a much needed Land, Snap or Steve is very unfortunate.
So I have an idea. I am considering running 1x Swamp and 4x Worldly Counsel; and zero Bring to Light. It seems too cute but I may be interested in this. At worst Worldly Counsel has always been an Anticipate. And I like knowing that I do not have to reveal like I do with Peer Through Depths. Casting an Impulse seems great. And with this black splash you should never feel like you have to force it.
2x Breeding Pool
3x Island
1x Flooded Grove
2x Forest
1x Swamp
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Mountain
4x Steam Vents
4x Stomping Ground
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
Sorcery
4x Scapeshift
4x Search for Tomorrow
1x Anger of the Gods
4x Cryptic Command
1x Electrolyze
1x Into the Roil
1x Izzet Charm
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Remand
1x Repeal
4x Worldly Counsel
Creature
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Anger of the Gods
2x Crumble to Dust
2x Dispel
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Negate
4x Obstinate Baloth
1x Shatterstorm
1x Spellskite
For the Swamp I took out the Desolate Lighthouse. I wonder if this list would warrant a Watery Grave? But then at that point why don't I just play the Bring to Light lists?
I will continue to test these two lists including a standard BtL list with the Black splash for Slaughter Games.
Let me know what you guys think.
As for foil Memnarch...totally worth it. I think mine was 11+ dollars? Its been awhile since I got it. Right now they are sitting at $18.00 (US) for TCG low.
I am currently in the market for a Mana Crypt. I know its busted, but how has it been for you? I feel like the 3 damage doesn't matter too much. So the next card I plan on squeezing in is this one...or would you recommend I pull the trigger on Mana Drain? Which of these has had a larger impact on your games?
Keep on Mem-daddying. As of now my two generals are Memnarch and Diaochan, Artful Beauty. With Memnarch being priority numero uno.
If you do go to a more artifact based version I 100% endorse Metalworker. If my memnarch list ran more artifacts it would be an auto slam. Would you want a Vedalken Orrery? Or is the Shimmer Myr more of what you want? I feel like you already operate quite well at instant speed so perhaps the Myr is good enough. And since you have some infinite mana combos. I feel like you have to include Staff of Domination. Going infinite with Metalworker and 3+ artifacts in hand seems so tasty.
I have a question concerning Counterbalance. How effective has it been? Is it hard to provide a lock with Top in the EDH format? It looks awesome but i'm worried that with all the varying mana costs edh has it might not be so great. Have any thoughts or insights you could share? I am looking into one for my list.
After some consideration I am considering cutting Blightsteel Colossus for the one Mystic Remora.
Also, I am a him...but I do not think that matters. The list looks good in the primer. Thanks for the consideration.