If you don't mind me.asking. Do you have a more up to date list? I'd love to sell the idea to an izzet slinger that adding green + riku would be so much more fun. Ramp for daaaays
spot on. you can already buy singles in large quantities on TCG for $0.35 per and we haven't even had any product open yet. they will be close to $0.20 at release and just keep hammering down.
Is a card one the red 2014 commander deck. I want to build around this in my playgroup as everyone will appreciate the hilarity that ensues. So what are your ideas?
I make it a point to step in if I feel like someone is being taken advantage of and I know this because I was on the victim end of a shark experience when I was a newbie. Nobody told me that SFM was guaranteed to shoot up to $20 when they were $2 a pop. When I found out the spike was inevitable after I traded my SFM away, I was pretty upset and almost didn't want to go back to that LGS and I certainly didn't want that to happen to others at the store.
So wait... we're now going to hold people responsible for card spikes too? It's now unethical to trade a $2 card for another $2 card that might have a price spike in the future? We should now be butting into other people's fair trades according to current market values just to let people know that one of their cards might potentially gain value? And it's now our collective obligation to inform the masses about which cards are "guaranteed" to shoot up in price? Unreal. Where does it end?
I wouldn't intervene on a card spike but I wouldn't trade for a card I was pretty sure was going to spike. I would buy from a retailer though.
I think the point you are choosing to ignore is you are representing this as two equal level people making the deal. In terms of knowledge and understanding of the market, etc.
No, I'm not. And you're once again putting words in my mouth. I never said anything remotely close to that. I don't care if a trade is happening between two equal, level people in terms of knowledge and understanding or not. If I'm not involved, it's none of my business. It's not my place to butt in on the affairs of others and use my value judgement to determine what others should or should not do with their own personal possessions. Should I only be stepping in on the trades of others when I notice a $3 difference in value? $5? $10? 20+? Or should I only allow others to complete their trades as they see fit, not harassed by my outside presence, if it would be a trade that I'd personally make? Or how about I just mind my own business and let others live their lives as they see fit?
What this thread is trying to address is people who prey upon players who aren't fully aware of what they have. Players who knowingly attack an unfair situation.
It is? Where did you read that? I could have sworn that the OP was simply asking for the opinions of others regarding our views on a multitude of ethical trading practices. I merely provided my opinion.
Yeah because only the OP matters. Not the other 20 comments which have specifically used the Ugin's garbage for Liliana trade as an example but hey only the OP matters right!? You could also infer that the quote is about ethical trading which people preying on uninformed/newer player would fall under, that seems like it would fall under the OP.
As a side question if the person who was making on the bad end of a one sided trade was a really good friend of yours would you clue them in? Or would you say "well none of my business". You literally walk into a store and see your friend trading with someone and they are about give up a ton of market value (not your subjective value) for very little in return. At what threshold would you say "hold on man that's not fair".
If you say you wouldn't interfere at any threshold then we can just end the discussion because there is no way that is true. Maybe my threshold is lower than yours and maybe you don't extend it to strangers whereas I do but everyone would stop it at some point.
Well a gave an example of a real life situation and extended your logic to it. I never said what you would or wouldn't do but thanks.
You also never responded to the meat of my post.
An inequitable trade where the benefiting party has more complete information is not a fair trade.
"If, instead of being charged $100 too little on accident, I had asked how much it was and the clerk told me $70, I'd buy it and feel like I got a great deal. But they are two completely different scenarios."
Assuming you know the person isn't the magic expert (say its your frequent shop and he is the sports guy or star wars guy, whatever) and you do this then I would consider it a dishonest/unethical action.
I think the point you are choosing to ignore is you are representing this as two equal level people making the deal. In terms of knowledge and understanding of the market, etc. If two people who understand the relative values of the cards they are trading and agree to the unequal trade want to trade they will trade if someone tells them its unfair or not.
What this thread is trying to address is people who prey upon players who aren't fully aware of what they have. Players who knowingly attack an unfair situation.
So, 2 people mutually agreeing to a trade that isn't fair in your eyes = someone scamming someone else? Who says one party is necessarily "deliberately trying to grossly mislead someone"? And where do you draw the line? How do you determine whether a trade, in your eyes, is fair for other people?
If both parties have complete information.
And why is it your duty to make sure 2 free thinking individuals have "complete information" on a trade before making it? Do you not believe in the ability of others to make their own decisions based on whatever information they have at their disposal, or to seek out said information if they so choose without outside interference? And why do trade partners need "complete information" anyway?
Because without complete information an inequitable trade is inherently unfair. Now some people think that it doesn't matter what is or isn't fair and that's life, if you are going to trade educate yourself or risk the consequences. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that, its just not the way I choose to conduct myself.
As a follow up let me lay out a situation for you. You are at your LGS and you see a moderately played revised underground sea for $170 and you consider this to be a pretty good deal and as such you buy it.
The person who rings you up isn't really a magic guy (maybe comic specialty or something else, my LGS sells sports memorabilia as well) and misreads the label on the card and rings you up for $70 instead of $170. The "magic expert" at the store would never do this as he knows an underground sea is obviously selling for more than $70.
Do you take the sea for $70 and think "too bad he didn't have perfect information", or do you say "hey man I think you made a mistake"?
According to your stance on trade you would take the card and run. You were both fair minded people who made a transaction.
In my opinion, and what I ended up doing, was pointing out the mistake to the guy. I had no issue doing this because it was the honest thing to do and I would want someone to do the same for me if I made a mistake like that.
Sounds like Meijer is going to have 20% off trading cards this week so the commander decks could be had a $28 per. This will make me consider decks other than the red one but I buy mostly to play with the cards. If containment priest is $12 and the white planeswalker is $6 that means I get 98 cards for $10. Seems pretty good.
Not sure if the discount is local or not but I saw it at my local meijer and my friend is reporting the same at his.
Yeah speaking for my area only I really don't understand the local shops.
Red - $50
White - $45
2 miles down the road at meijer? $35. I picked up the red deck as it just flat out had cards I want. Welder, Wurmcoil, Dualcaster and Daretti. Those seemed ok for me at $35 at there are a bunch of other good things in there.
I asked the guy at the store about it and he said they mark them up because its the only way to make money off having all of them. I suggested packing them in sets of 5 for $165-170 and he looked at me like I was a wizard.
I also noted that they weren't marking down the cheap ones. They'll have those decks for a while.
Wal-mart seems to get their stuff out faster than meijer however. I got my red deck from wal-mart friday afternoon and meijer didn't have anything out til this morning (everyone in my play group scouting). Same happens with duel decks.
I would like to second this request.
Deck looks sweet.
spot on. you can already buy singles in large quantities on TCG for $0.35 per and we haven't even had any product open yet. they will be close to $0.20 at release and just keep hammering down.
Bitter Feud
Is a card one the red 2014 commander deck. I want to build around this in my playgroup as everyone will appreciate the hilarity that ensues. So what are your ideas?
I wouldn't intervene on a card spike but I wouldn't trade for a card I was pretty sure was going to spike. I would buy from a retailer though.
Yeah because only the OP matters. Not the other 20 comments which have specifically used the Ugin's garbage for Liliana trade as an example but hey only the OP matters right!? You could also infer that the quote is about ethical trading which people preying on uninformed/newer player would fall under, that seems like it would fall under the OP.
As a side question if the person who was making on the bad end of a one sided trade was a really good friend of yours would you clue them in? Or would you say "well none of my business". You literally walk into a store and see your friend trading with someone and they are about give up a ton of market value (not your subjective value) for very little in return. At what threshold would you say "hold on man that's not fair".
If you say you wouldn't interfere at any threshold then we can just end the discussion because there is no way that is true. Maybe my threshold is lower than yours and maybe you don't extend it to strangers whereas I do but everyone would stop it at some point.
Well a gave an example of a real life situation and extended your logic to it. I never said what you would or wouldn't do but thanks.
You also never responded to the meat of my post.
An inequitable trade where the benefiting party has more complete information is not a fair trade.
"If, instead of being charged $100 too little on accident, I had asked how much it was and the clerk told me $70, I'd buy it and feel like I got a great deal. But they are two completely different scenarios."
Assuming you know the person isn't the magic expert (say its your frequent shop and he is the sports guy or star wars guy, whatever) and you do this then I would consider it a dishonest/unethical action.
I think the point you are choosing to ignore is you are representing this as two equal level people making the deal. In terms of knowledge and understanding of the market, etc. If two people who understand the relative values of the cards they are trading and agree to the unequal trade want to trade they will trade if someone tells them its unfair or not.
What this thread is trying to address is people who prey upon players who aren't fully aware of what they have. Players who knowingly attack an unfair situation.
Because without complete information an inequitable trade is inherently unfair. Now some people think that it doesn't matter what is or isn't fair and that's life, if you are going to trade educate yourself or risk the consequences. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with that, its just not the way I choose to conduct myself.
As a follow up let me lay out a situation for you. You are at your LGS and you see a moderately played revised underground sea for $170 and you consider this to be a pretty good deal and as such you buy it.
The person who rings you up isn't really a magic guy (maybe comic specialty or something else, my LGS sells sports memorabilia as well) and misreads the label on the card and rings you up for $70 instead of $170. The "magic expert" at the store would never do this as he knows an underground sea is obviously selling for more than $70.
Do you take the sea for $70 and think "too bad he didn't have perfect information", or do you say "hey man I think you made a mistake"?
According to your stance on trade you would take the card and run. You were both fair minded people who made a transaction.
In my opinion, and what I ended up doing, was pointing out the mistake to the guy. I had no issue doing this because it was the honest thing to do and I would want someone to do the same for me if I made a mistake like that.
if you need to have here NOW you'll likely pay $8-10.
Not sure if the discount is local or not but I saw it at my local meijer and my friend is reporting the same at his.
Red - $50
White - $45
2 miles down the road at meijer? $35. I picked up the red deck as it just flat out had cards I want. Welder, Wurmcoil, Dualcaster and Daretti. Those seemed ok for me at $35 at there are a bunch of other good things in there.
I asked the guy at the store about it and he said they mark them up because its the only way to make money off having all of them. I suggested packing them in sets of 5 for $165-170 and he looked at me like I was a wizard.
I also noted that they weren't marking down the cheap ones. They'll have those decks for a while.
Wal-mart seems to get their stuff out faster than meijer however. I got my red deck from wal-mart friday afternoon and meijer didn't have anything out til this morning (everyone in my play group scouting). Same happens with duel decks.
My advice would be: instead of buying a couple packs each week save up and buy a box and then sit on the sealed box.
Is there any reason not to buy this card heavily?
It's strictly better than plague winds which has been printed 4 times.
Print Plague Winds In Garruk's Wake
Normal $2-3 $0.20-0.25
Foil $6-7 $0.75-1.0
No idea if that will format right but it seems like In Garruk's Wake should get to at least a $5 foil.
Thoughts?