Yeah I had the same problem it felt like I always had the elves I needed but couldn't get the Curio, I was watching a tron deck and thought "that is what I should try". I agree Sentimental Engine Slayer, I tried it with 4 but then I didn't have enough room for other things I wanted, I look at Abundant growth as a card that cycles for 1 and just happens to give me more mana on later turns. The only reason I even have Arbor Elf in the deck instead of llanowar elves is to synergize with Abundant Growth.
I read the discussion on Genesis Wave now, sorry I missed it the first time. I am thiking Summoner's Pact might be better, what are the major downsides though? I can't imagine wanting it if I don't have the ability to pay 4 mana on the next upkeep.
Thank you for all of the discussion on this, I have been trying to build and test a version as well. Is there a reason I haven't seen almost any discussion on Genesis Wave? Here is a list I have been testing, it uses Ancient Stirrings to find a Curio and there are times when i can generate infinite or just significant mana and Genesis wave into the rest of my combo parts. Like the above posters mention the Chord feels bad, but at the same time sometimes gets me that nettle sentinel or Heritage druid I need.
I find it is a huge upgrade over the 4 Azorius Signet I was running from the primer and other deck lists. It doesn't take a mana to activate so you can end up holding up just the lantern, etc. And it color fixes the mana base enough I run more utility lands and have no trouble with colors at all after turn 3. Plus since I am running Mindslaver I have a package for artifact and land recursion, this just makes that package better in my mind. Also as you noted it has the purely upside side effect of hosing blood moon.
Is not better Crucible of worlds? You could dicard it whit Thirst for knowledge and great with Gifts ungiven
personally I think it is better than crucible outside of the gifts scenario because you don't have to replay them meaning you don't have to waste land drops putting them, back on the field they just come back and it initially costs one less to cast and global enchantment hate is probably less common than artifact hate because of decks like affinity.
You make a good point, Sacred Ground comes down earlier and does put things back into play without taking land drops. However it doesn't do anything about lands that are in the graveyard when you cast it. So it is great pro-actively but bad re-actively, where as Crucible of worlds is agnostic as to when you play it. Even assuming there is more artifact hate (which I agree with) run an Academy Ruins (or 2 in my case) to get back any artifact they destroy. Personally I haven't seen many artifact exile effects.
very true about academy ruins and personally I like to be pro-active but crucible definitely has more re-activity but I'll do some testing with both and see how it goes there isn't too much LD in my meta but I'm worried about it at bigger comps. As to the ruins though I personally don't run mindslaver lock so ruins just takes up a slot for me but I think I will try mindslaver out someday as I have had oh so much fun with it when I played more commander
Yeah if you aren't running Mindslaver then the ruins aren't as good. I have been trying a list with a number of wincon's, I don't think its refined yet but it has been fun playing it.
Is not better Crucible of worlds? You could dicard it whit Thirst for knowledge and great with Gifts ungiven
personally I think it is better than crucible outside of the gifts scenario because you don't have to replay them meaning you don't have to waste land drops putting them, back on the field they just come back and it initially costs one less to cast and global enchantment hate is probably less common than artifact hate because of decks like affinity.
You make a good point, Sacred Ground comes down earlier and does put things back into play without taking land drops. However it doesn't do anything about lands that are in the graveyard when you cast it. So it is great pro-actively but bad re-actively, where as Crucible of worlds is agnostic as to when you play it. Even assuming there is more artifact hate (which I agree with) run an Academy Ruins (or 2 in my case) to get back any artifact they destroy. Personally I haven't seen many artifact exile effects.
I have been messing around with a variant of this deck running Mindslaver and the three main creatures and have a question about the inclusion of Azorius Signet in these lists.
Isn't Chromatic Lantern a strict upgrade? It makes all of your utility lands and Tron lands tap for color if you need them to. I do realize it comes down a turn later but I think the upside is significantly worth it.
Favorite Playstyle : Control / Combo
How Competitive : For Fun, Local Tournament
Favorite Cards/Colors: Blue, White, Black, Green; specifically Junk (Abzan) and Esper
Budget: Not really sure, at the moment probably $500 or so. I want to find a deck I really enjoy and don't mind building over time. Modern is so much nicer than standard due to the lack of rotation.
Staples Owned: None
Potentially a deck that is similar or shares some parts with a legacy Control / Combo deck would be awesome, over-time I might want to play there if I can afford some of the more rare cards.
I don't disagree with you Swaggy P, I was just trying to give very generic advice on where to start since the deck appeared to be a semi-random assortment of cards at first.
It was not meant to be advice for a tournament caliber deck, just somewhere more cohesive to start.
I think the most important question to ask yourself first is what is the goal of your deck? Are you going to be an aggro strategy where you want a lot of cheap creatures to floor the board?
Or do you want to play a Control strategy, removing all of their threats while making land drops to get to the late game?
Then pick nine cards that fit your strategy, and put four copies of each into your deck. That should be a good starting point.
You currently have 34 lands listed which is way too many, also you have 12x Radiant Fountain listed. You are only allowed 4 of any card except basic lands. An Aggro style deck will want 20 or so lands while a control deck will want 25 or so lands.
Once you address those main issues it will be easier for people to help you refine the deck.
Awesome variant Rhandall. How does 10 Forests play with Nissa, do you often have 4 forests to untap?
I thought In Garruk's Wake but the 9 mana cost made me move to Hero's Downfall instead.
Also how does the manabase feel with no Sylvan Caryatid? So far I've been trying to keep at least a few for early turn mana fixing for when i don't have a second black source yet.
So far enchantment based decks (constellation, etc.) have been a struggle in the first match. It might be right to run 1 or 2 reclamation sage mainboard, again my problem there is finding where to put them. Herald of Torment I haven't playtested yet, I had Boon Saytr's here when I played it last and that was nice but again i had a lot of problems with flying creatures. So for basically the same cost (just Black vs Green) I can bestow and get a Polukranos, World Eater in the air.
Yeah good idea, I think you are right the card draw might be better than Liliana.
You might be right on Hornet Nest and Tactics... hmm I am going to have to mess around with that some more.
I thought of thoughtseize, however I don't think it will benefit the deck for a few reasons.
1) The mana base would have to change, thoughtseize is really powerful on turn 1 or 2 specifically; but less so later on I think and right now its like a ~30% chance for a black source on turn 1.
2) This deck doesn't lend itself well for 1 to 1 trades I don't think; Reid Duke had a great article on Channel Fireball about thoughtseize that really made me re-evaluate it.
I read the discussion on Genesis Wave now, sorry I missed it the first time. I am thiking Summoner's Pact might be better, what are the major downsides though? I can't imagine wanting it if I don't have the ability to pay 4 mana on the next upkeep.
6 Forest
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures
2 Arbor Elf
4 Dwynen's Elite
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Essence Warden
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Shaman of the Pack
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Cloudstone Curio
Tutors
3 Ancient Stirrings
3 Genesis Wave
3 Chord of Calling
Ramp/draw
3 Abundant Growth
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Apostle's Blessing
2x Door of Destinies
1x Ezuri, Renegade Leader
2x Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Spellskite
Yeah if you aren't running Mindslaver then the ruins aren't as good. I have been trying a list with a number of wincon's, I don't think its refined yet but it has been fun playing it.
2x Academy Ruins
3x Celestial Colonnade
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
1x Plains
3x Seachrome Coast
4x Urza's Mine
4x Urza's Power Plant
4x Urza's Tower
Artifact
4x Chromatic Lantern
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Expedition Map
1x Mindslaver
Enchantment
1x Detention Sphere
1x Luminarch Ascension
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Condescend
4x Gifts Ungiven
4x Path to Exile
2x Remand
1x Repeal
1x Sphinx's Revelation
4x Thirst for Knowledge
Sorcery
1x Day of Judgment
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Unburial Rites
1x Wrath of God
Creature
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
3x Ghostly Prison
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Negate
1x Pact of Negation
1x Platinum Angel
2x Remand
1x Spellskite
1x Timely Reinforcements
1x Torpor Orb
You make a good point, Sacred Ground comes down earlier and does put things back into play without taking land drops. However it doesn't do anything about lands that are in the graveyard when you cast it. So it is great pro-actively but bad re-actively, where as Crucible of worlds is agnostic as to when you play it. Even assuming there is more artifact hate (which I agree with) run an Academy Ruins (or 2 in my case) to get back any artifact they destroy. Personally I haven't seen many artifact exile effects.
Isn't Chromatic Lantern a strict upgrade? It makes all of your utility lands and Tron lands tap for color if you need them to. I do realize it comes down a turn later but I think the upside is significantly worth it.
How Competitive : For Fun, Local Tournament
Favorite Cards/Colors: Blue, White, Black, Green; specifically Junk (Abzan) and Esper
Budget: Not really sure, at the moment probably $500 or so. I want to find a deck I really enjoy and don't mind building over time. Modern is so much nicer than standard due to the lack of rotation.
Staples Owned: None
Potentially a deck that is similar or shares some parts with a legacy Control / Combo deck would be awesome, over-time I might want to play there if I can afford some of the more rare cards.
It was not meant to be advice for a tournament caliber deck, just somewhere more cohesive to start.
I think the most important question to ask yourself first is what is the goal of your deck? Are you going to be an aggro strategy where you want a lot of cheap creatures to floor the board?
Or do you want to play a Control strategy, removing all of their threats while making land drops to get to the late game?
Then pick nine cards that fit your strategy, and put four copies of each into your deck. That should be a good starting point.
You currently have 34 lands listed which is way too many, also you have 12x Radiant Fountain listed. You are only allowed 4 of any card except basic lands. An Aggro style deck will want 20 or so lands while a control deck will want 25 or so lands.
Once you address those main issues it will be easier for people to help you refine the deck.
With that rotating I really hope they give us Dual lands with the land type in Khans.
I thought In Garruk's Wake but the 9 mana cost made me move to Hero's Downfall instead.
What are your primary Chord of Calling targets? Scuttling Doom Engnine?
Also how does the manabase feel with no Sylvan Caryatid? So far I've been trying to keep at least a few for early turn mana fixing for when i don't have a second black source yet.
Herald of Torment I haven't playtested yet, I had Boon Saytr's here when I played it last and that was nice but again i had a lot of problems with flying creatures. So for basically the same cost (just Black vs Green) I can bestow and get a Polukranos, World Eater in the air.
You might be right on Hornet Nest and Tactics... hmm I am going to have to mess around with that some more.
I thought of thoughtseize, however I don't think it will benefit the deck for a few reasons.
1) The mana base would have to change, thoughtseize is really powerful on turn 1 or 2 specifically; but less so later on I think and right now its like a ~30% chance for a black source on turn 1.
2) This deck doesn't lend itself well for 1 to 1 trades I don't think; Reid Duke had a great article on Channel Fireball about thoughtseize that really made me re-evaluate it.