I think there is a chance that Misty Rainforest may become the most expensive of the ZEN Fetches eventually. It is the fetch of the most relevant colors in Legacy (G= Goyf, U=FoW/Brainstorm/etc) so with the influx of players into that format, and so many legacy decks playing Misty Rainforest as it is perhaps it could go up.
Either way, I don't think the fetches will ever be as expensive as the Onslaught fetches. So many have been opened and are in circulation that I think they will remain at about the price they are now for a while.
I for one, not that it matters really, happen to think this is a fine decision for WotC to make. I am not one of those players who owns P9 or plays Vintage and was screaming and complaining about the "loosening" of the Reserved List...
However I am a longtime player, and an avid Legacy enthousiast. Over the years I've put a decent share of money and time trading for a lot of Legacy staples. Sets of Tropical Islands, Tundras, Bayous etc, and I've never traded any of them on the sole fact that I ws certain they wouldnt be reprinted and wouldn't lose their value. I've also tried to be smart and keep cards I was positive would be holding onto value even when they rotated out of Standard or Extended (not that this paid off all the time). Anyway, my point is that its not only the players who own P9 that would be angry, they would be a small minority. However, if Force of Will, Lion's Eye Diamond, Underground Sea, and many of the other Legacy staples we have had and kept over the years were reprinted and lost value, we would be upset. I for one know I would lose a pretty decent chunk of change if such reprints were made. Not that that is what the core of this game is about, but my point is that there is a much greater segment of the Magic playing population with Dual Lands and LEDs and City of Traitors than there are with Full Beta sets of Power9. There would be a much louder and widespread anger/panic if sudenly all 10 dual lands were reprinted and their values took a nose-dive. I understand that it would include a larger portion of players to the Legacy format (something I would love to see continue happening!) but at the cost of alienating and angering many of the current Legacy players.
I know that I am in the minority in feeling like this.
My larger point though, people seem to be making comments to the effect of "will Legacy survive", and "goodbye Legacy", purely because of the lack of the reprints that people were for some reason expecting... Am I the only one remembering the record attendace at GP: Madrid?? Or the fact that every single one of the SCG Legacy $5Ks has drawn a larger audience than the last? The Legacy format is growing in leaps and bounds, but from what I see at every large event is NOT a lack of the cards people need to play. The choice to acquire those cards is about always there for you to make (I'm not talking about price or budget here, purely the fact that they exist, sitting in dealer cases for you to buy/trade in for at every large tournament).
I doubt that suddenly we are going to see a drop-off in Legacy tournament attendace because of this change to the Reserved List...If anything I expect the trends in attendance to continue, but I agree that there is a ceiling, but we certaintly haven't reached it yet.
Must have some of these.... Hell if Nick said he's gonna have 16 of em at the Philly Open thats just one more incentive to go to a Tourney I was already definitely going to!
Now I just gotta come up with the cash for a few of these bad boys!
Reprinting Duals or abolishing the Reserve list would definitely piss off all the Players who already had invested in Legacy staples... As it is, there is NO shortage of Dual lands really, on a restriction based on price. Basically if anyone wants to own Duals, they can find them its just a matter of how much of a hit your wallet can take. The same can be said for FoW, Wasteland and many of the other high end Legacy staples.
Also the idea of proxies in Legacy tournaments is VERY disheartening to me... I think Proxy tournaments are what keep people from really taking Vintage seriously. No-one has any tie to the format when they don't actually own the cards and merely Proxy them before a local Vintage 10-Proxy tourny. Not exactly the solution to fix Legacy. Banning dual lands is an almost laughable "solution" to the format when there isn't even a problem with them in the first place.
Is it expensive to get into Legacy? It can be depending on what cards you already own, what deck you want to play, where you buy from, etc...
Is there an actual problem with the availability of Legacy staples? Not even close... Local dealers by me usually have STACKS of 15-20 of each dual sitting in their cases at PTQs and other large tournaments.
Like many have said its an issue of price, not of availability.
I wish there was a 3rd option rather than just "yes" and "no"...
In all honesty this was one of the first sets that I didn't purchase a booster box of, purely because the set didn't stand out to me in anyway... Sure there were some playable cards when it was introduced to Standard, but there were much fewer integral cards in that set than most. Sure Orhan Viper, Rune Snag, Skred and others saw a good amount of Standard play, and in the many years since Dark Depths has become a Powerhouse in Extended as well as seeing some Legacy play. So on the constructed side of things I was pretty much disappointed by Coldsnap in general...there wasn't anything that really had the "WOW" factor for Standard.
However, I absolutely loved CS-CS-CS drafting... Ripple was a pretty powerful mechanic (and Recover to a lesser extent) and they led to pretty fun interractions in games. I felt like the limited format was very balanced and fun with many viable draft archetypes.
Also, the nastalgia factor was probably the thing I liked the most about Coldsnap...even though I hated WotC's "omg!!!11!!1! we found this long lost 3rd set of the ice age block in a filing cabinet" story that was fed to us, the feel of the set was very cool as a way to finish off the concepts started in Ice Age and Alliances (if only the Pitch spells in Coldsnap had been anywhere near as good as Force of Will), so it definitely hit home as a player who really started playing in the Ice Age era. Perhaps thats why I enjoyed it more as a limited set than for Constructed as it let me feel the IceAge-ness of the set.
Plus with such a small set I remember drafting like 5+ Skreds and just wrecking house
It really depends on how many decks I think are worth investing the time and resources to build them. I will often have 98% of the cards for a certain deck, but if I dont think the deck is very good in the meta (or sometimes even a good deck just isn't my style) then Im not gonna take the time to even sleeve it up.
This usually means I have 1-3 Standard decks complete, sleeved up and with relevant SBs. This isn't counting the multiple Extended decks I am testing and my Legacy Deck (CounterTopProgenitus).
So as of now for T2 I have:
Jund
Boros
RDW
RWU Control (LSVs List, not the more recent Post-WWK Version as I dont play this deck often, but most likely will update it soon as it seems to be very well positioned in the meta)
These decks are 100% finished and ready to bring to any competetive tourny on a moment's notice. However I also have a few decks in the testing/building stages like:
GW Eldrazi Tokens
Timmy Trap
Grixis Control
etc
I tried using the search function to find an answer to this question, but couldn't find one. If I missed it, Im sorry for the repetitive question.
Say I have a a Counterbalance/Top engine going, and my opponent has an untapped Trinisphere doing its thing. My question is this: Does the Trinisphere actually change the CMC of the spells it affects (for instance, Brainstorm would cost 2U) for the purposes of Counterbalance? Or does Counterbalance only care about the printed casting cost of the card, not what was actually paid?
I suppose the same question would occur with Kicker... If my opponent kicks Gatekeeper of Malakir, does Counterbalance need to reveal CMC 2 or CMC 3 to counter it?
Thanks in advance for any help with this question.
Well figured I'd add my contact info to this list. With the advent of the new SCG $5K series, I actually have incentive to play Legacy!! Ive had Force of Wills, Tropical Isands, Underground Seas, Dazes etc all sitting around for wayyy too long.
But now I'm a bit rusty, re-learning the metagame, so would love to do any amount of testing! For those curious, I am usually playing CounterTopProgenitus, but am comfortable playing Zoo, Canadian Thresh, 43 Land, Aggro Loam, Merfolk etc... I have those decks built on MWS, but only CounterTop IRL.
Anyway, heres my contact info
AIM: CKYStonedAge
Email: Seanrockinfleming @ Yahoo .com
MTGO: ConceptOfSleep (though I dont have any Legacy decks on MTGO yet)
Location: New Jersey, USA (EST)
Also feel free to PM me here if you are up for a few games. I am almost ALWAYS logged in to MTGS, even when I am not at home my laptop is usually running, so if I dont respond, I am probably away for a bit, but will get back to anyone ASAP to play some Legacy!! I mean its the best damn format around!!
I really love the flavor of Raging Ravine... while activating this costs the same as playing a superior card, it still is a very relevant threat as a 4/4 the first time you animate and attack. Seems like a decent 2-of in Jund, as it gives Jund something to do when the Bloodbraids and Blightnings are all gone, but we still just cant quite reach that Broodmate mana.
And I'm fairly certain that someone will break Omnath in half. Lots of good green mana producers and I can think of several x-spells that might have enough mana floating around from Omnath's ability to do lethal, or create a rediculous game state... Probably not tournament worthy in the least, but Im sure Ill see something to that effect at an FNM.
Both very cool cards! Worldwake's shaping up nicely I'd say
At my local Store I've seen at least 3 Display cases go just 1 by 1, and a few people have baught an entire display as well.
3 Foil Elspeths have been cracked while I was there watching at the store... One pack with a Foil Elspeth also had Foil Bloodbraid Elf and I beleive Foil Esper Charm and Foil Blightning, so that kid was quite happy with the All-Foil packs.lol
I haven't opened any myself because I just dont care about foils that much... Maybe Ill trade some Prize Packs in for one or 2 of those instead next FNM or MNM...
Yeah, I have been playing some Incarnation of Jund even Before M10 rotation (Back when we still had Finks, Ram-Gang and Sygg River Cutthroat), and I have to agree that neither of these cards really fits into Junds plans...
While Chain Reaction will probably find some uses, Jund isn't the deck that wants to wrath the board...
Ricochet Trap?? SB card for Jund at the MOST...but will most likely never see a spot in the 75 I take to a tournament. Maybe to have them in the SB for some testing, but I don't see it being that good short of an amazing new Counterspell or U card draw spell being printed in WWK.
Wow is that the red "bloodied" vampire mark on her forhead there? It looked at first like a widow's peak kinda peice of hair, but that definitely looks red to me....
And hey, look who she is battling side-by-side with... Sorin...hmmm
If you go to your DCI page (the one to check your Stats, Ratings etc...On the right hand side there is a box with several options like "My Play Statistics", "My Events", etc... Click on "My Rewards" and it will show you what kind of MPR points you have, and how many of each set you should recieve.
On the topic at hand, I got mine on Monday, however my info has not updated to say it shipped, and I think the cut-off date must have been last month sometime, since I was supposed to have enough points for 3 Foils and 12 token sets, but only got 9 token sets and 2 foils... The points roll over so I dont really care, it just woulda been nice to get them all this mailing.
Oh well, free cards are free cards. Too bad Fallout and Infest dont really see too much standard play ATM...Fallout had its time in the sun for sure, but has fallen by the wayside lately. Still very cool art for both of them, and Im sure they will trade decently
I don't see why a new forum is necessary. Buy and sell lists go in one, trades go in another. I'd rather make tagging the thread title BUY or SELL mandatory.
I think the BUY/SELL tags being mandatory would be a GREAT idea Annorax. I have to agree with the OP that finding actual Sales threads can be a bit daunting (but can still be done) and I think the compulsory Tags would really help people find what they are looking for.
A seperate Sales forum is definitely not necissary however.
I've opened 2 boxes that I bought, and then probably close to another 2-3 boxes in prize packs, and have only opened 4-5 foil Basics... This does seem to be much less frequently than normal, where I would find about 2 Foil basics per booster box.
Of course, when they are the Foil Basics that people actually want, they are harder to pull...
Either way, I don't think the fetches will ever be as expensive as the Onslaught fetches. So many have been opened and are in circulation that I think they will remain at about the price they are now for a while.
However I am a longtime player, and an avid Legacy enthousiast. Over the years I've put a decent share of money and time trading for a lot of Legacy staples. Sets of Tropical Islands, Tundras, Bayous etc, and I've never traded any of them on the sole fact that I ws certain they wouldnt be reprinted and wouldn't lose their value. I've also tried to be smart and keep cards I was positive would be holding onto value even when they rotated out of Standard or Extended (not that this paid off all the time). Anyway, my point is that its not only the players who own P9 that would be angry, they would be a small minority. However, if Force of Will, Lion's Eye Diamond, Underground Sea, and many of the other Legacy staples we have had and kept over the years were reprinted and lost value, we would be upset. I for one know I would lose a pretty decent chunk of change if such reprints were made. Not that that is what the core of this game is about, but my point is that there is a much greater segment of the Magic playing population with Dual Lands and LEDs and City of Traitors than there are with Full Beta sets of Power9. There would be a much louder and widespread anger/panic if sudenly all 10 dual lands were reprinted and their values took a nose-dive. I understand that it would include a larger portion of players to the Legacy format (something I would love to see continue happening!) but at the cost of alienating and angering many of the current Legacy players.
I know that I am in the minority in feeling like this.
My larger point though, people seem to be making comments to the effect of "will Legacy survive", and "goodbye Legacy", purely because of the lack of the reprints that people were for some reason expecting... Am I the only one remembering the record attendace at GP: Madrid?? Or the fact that every single one of the SCG Legacy $5Ks has drawn a larger audience than the last? The Legacy format is growing in leaps and bounds, but from what I see at every large event is NOT a lack of the cards people need to play. The choice to acquire those cards is about always there for you to make (I'm not talking about price or budget here, purely the fact that they exist, sitting in dealer cases for you to buy/trade in for at every large tournament).
I doubt that suddenly we are going to see a drop-off in Legacy tournament attendace because of this change to the Reserved List...If anything I expect the trends in attendance to continue, but I agree that there is a ceiling, but we certaintly haven't reached it yet.
Now I just gotta come up with the cash for a few of these bad boys!
Reprinting Duals or abolishing the Reserve list would definitely piss off all the Players who already had invested in Legacy staples... As it is, there is NO shortage of Dual lands really, on a restriction based on price. Basically if anyone wants to own Duals, they can find them its just a matter of how much of a hit your wallet can take. The same can be said for FoW, Wasteland and many of the other high end Legacy staples.
Also the idea of proxies in Legacy tournaments is VERY disheartening to me... I think Proxy tournaments are what keep people from really taking Vintage seriously. No-one has any tie to the format when they don't actually own the cards and merely Proxy them before a local Vintage 10-Proxy tourny. Not exactly the solution to fix Legacy. Banning dual lands is an almost laughable "solution" to the format when there isn't even a problem with them in the first place.
Is it expensive to get into Legacy? It can be depending on what cards you already own, what deck you want to play, where you buy from, etc...
Is there an actual problem with the availability of Legacy staples? Not even close... Local dealers by me usually have STACKS of 15-20 of each dual sitting in their cases at PTQs and other large tournaments.
Like many have said its an issue of price, not of availability.
Just my $0.02
In all honesty this was one of the first sets that I didn't purchase a booster box of, purely because the set didn't stand out to me in anyway... Sure there were some playable cards when it was introduced to Standard, but there were much fewer integral cards in that set than most. Sure Orhan Viper, Rune Snag, Skred and others saw a good amount of Standard play, and in the many years since Dark Depths has become a Powerhouse in Extended as well as seeing some Legacy play. So on the constructed side of things I was pretty much disappointed by Coldsnap in general...there wasn't anything that really had the "WOW" factor for Standard.
However, I absolutely loved CS-CS-CS drafting... Ripple was a pretty powerful mechanic (and Recover to a lesser extent) and they led to pretty fun interractions in games. I felt like the limited format was very balanced and fun with many viable draft archetypes.
Also, the nastalgia factor was probably the thing I liked the most about Coldsnap...even though I hated WotC's "omg!!!11!!1! we found this long lost 3rd set of the ice age block in a filing cabinet" story that was fed to us, the feel of the set was very cool as a way to finish off the concepts started in Ice Age and Alliances (if only the Pitch spells in Coldsnap had been anywhere near as good as Force of Will), so it definitely hit home as a player who really started playing in the Ice Age era. Perhaps thats why I enjoyed it more as a limited set than for Constructed as it let me feel the IceAge-ness of the set.
Plus with such a small set I remember drafting like 5+ Skreds and just wrecking house
So in summary:
Coldsnap in Standard: Fairly irrelevant
Coldsnap in Limited: Awesome
This usually means I have 1-3 Standard decks complete, sleeved up and with relevant SBs. This isn't counting the multiple Extended decks I am testing and my Legacy Deck (CounterTopProgenitus).
So as of now for T2 I have:
Jund
Boros
RDW
RWU Control (LSVs List, not the more recent Post-WWK Version as I dont play this deck often, but most likely will update it soon as it seems to be very well positioned in the meta)
These decks are 100% finished and ready to bring to any competetive tourny on a moment's notice. However I also have a few decks in the testing/building stages like:
GW Eldrazi Tokens
Timmy Trap
Grixis Control
etc
SEAN
Say I have a a Counterbalance/Top engine going, and my opponent has an untapped Trinisphere doing its thing. My question is this: Does the Trinisphere actually change the CMC of the spells it affects (for instance, Brainstorm would cost 2U) for the purposes of Counterbalance? Or does Counterbalance only care about the printed casting cost of the card, not what was actually paid?
I suppose the same question would occur with Kicker... If my opponent kicks Gatekeeper of Malakir, does Counterbalance need to reveal CMC 2 or CMC 3 to counter it?
Thanks in advance for any help with this question.
But now I'm a bit rusty, re-learning the metagame, so would love to do any amount of testing! For those curious, I am usually playing CounterTopProgenitus, but am comfortable playing Zoo, Canadian Thresh, 43 Land, Aggro Loam, Merfolk etc... I have those decks built on MWS, but only CounterTop IRL.
Anyway, heres my contact info
AIM: CKYStonedAge
Email: Seanrockinfleming @ Yahoo .com
MTGO: ConceptOfSleep (though I dont have any Legacy decks on MTGO yet)
Location: New Jersey, USA (EST)
Also feel free to PM me here if you are up for a few games. I am almost ALWAYS logged in to MTGS, even when I am not at home my laptop is usually running, so if I dont respond, I am probably away for a bit, but will get back to anyone ASAP to play some Legacy!! I mean its the best damn format around!!
And I'm fairly certain that someone will break Omnath in half. Lots of good green mana producers and I can think of several x-spells that might have enough mana floating around from Omnath's ability to do lethal, or create a rediculous game state... Probably not tournament worthy in the least, but Im sure Ill see something to that effect at an FNM.
Both very cool cards! Worldwake's shaping up nicely I'd say
3 Foil Elspeths have been cracked while I was there watching at the store... One pack with a Foil Elspeth also had Foil Bloodbraid Elf and I beleive Foil Esper Charm and Foil Blightning, so that kid was quite happy with the All-Foil packs.lol
I haven't opened any myself because I just dont care about foils that much... Maybe Ill trade some Prize Packs in for one or 2 of those instead next FNM or MNM...
While Chain Reaction will probably find some uses, Jund isn't the deck that wants to wrath the board...
Ricochet Trap?? SB card for Jund at the MOST...but will most likely never see a spot in the 75 I take to a tournament. Maybe to have them in the SB for some testing, but I don't see it being that good short of an amazing new Counterspell or U card draw spell being printed in WWK.
Wow is that the red "bloodied" vampire mark on her forhead there? It looked at first like a widow's peak kinda peice of hair, but that definitely looks red to me....
And hey, look who she is battling side-by-side with... Sorin...hmmm
You may be on to somthing here.
If you go to your DCI page (the one to check your Stats, Ratings etc...On the right hand side there is a box with several options like "My Play Statistics", "My Events", etc... Click on "My Rewards" and it will show you what kind of MPR points you have, and how many of each set you should recieve.
On the topic at hand, I got mine on Monday, however my info has not updated to say it shipped, and I think the cut-off date must have been last month sometime, since I was supposed to have enough points for 3 Foils and 12 token sets, but only got 9 token sets and 2 foils... The points roll over so I dont really care, it just woulda been nice to get them all this mailing.
Oh well, free cards are free cards. Too bad Fallout and Infest dont really see too much standard play ATM...Fallout had its time in the sun for sure, but has fallen by the wayside lately. Still very cool art for both of them, and Im sure they will trade decently
I think the BUY/SELL tags being mandatory would be a GREAT idea Annorax. I have to agree with the OP that finding actual Sales threads can be a bit daunting (but can still be done) and I think the compulsory Tags would really help people find what they are looking for.
A seperate Sales forum is definitely not necissary however.
Of course, when they are the Foil Basics that people actually want, they are harder to pull...