It's awesome to see more people coming around to Start // Finish. I originally didn't value the card highly either until I started playing it and now I'm 100% glad I made the switch from Spectral. You might find though (as I have recently) that you're a bit overloaded on removal after you make this switch; after swapping in 3 of them I've gone lower on Paths and Pushes, especially since I run two Collective Brutality maindeck too. Obviously the 'Finish' half isn't as powerful as our 1 mana removal spells but bringing in 3 of them is definitely an excuse to shave one other removal, I feel.
Overall, this definitely seems to be the main 'shape' of our deck these days, although I seem to be alone in running higher on the Gideons, I just love that card so much. I seem to win basically every game where I play him, not so much with Sorin unless the lifelink is super relevant. I'm considering going up to 3 Gideons, think I'm gonna buy the third copy tomorrow and try it out for a bit.
It's a shame that DOM didn't really bring any new toys for us to play with. Looking forward to the Orzhov set when we visit Ravnica again though!
In other news, I've been testing a Mardu build online and it's been very interesting. If we cut some specific things to include red with Faithless Looting, Boros Charm, Mardu Charm and Goblin Rabblemaster we seem to retain our overall effectiveness and resilience but gain quite a bit of power; Rabblemaster is a lot of fun with Virtue in play and a Zealous Persecution in your hand
I'm also running two Gideons and I like it. I'm surprised how often I play him and just want to emblem, based on the game state.
Hey! I recently started playing Modern again with this fine deck and I've been doing so on and off for years. Since life is a thing I've had to take a longer break this time. In the meantime I designed some tokens for myself, yay!
Anyway, last week I got to play some FNM and of course I met the one and only person playing Living End, whom I always lose to. I mean how far should one go to beat that ONE deck among 40 other people? What's the best sideboard plan/game strategy we have against Living End? (hi Rest in Peace)
There's a guy at one of the LGS' I go to that occasionally runs Living End- he's also the judge of the event, so he's a good player. I used to run the relics that came with the modern event deck, but playing a lot of M25, I pulled 2 x rest in peace. I made the substitution. I just got back from an event today and RiP basically won my matchup against a Martyr deck (mono white, gains tons of life, uses Emeria the sky ruin and other bring back from the GY stuff). If you're going to anything competitive or your local meta warrants, RiP is the best GY hate. I run two.
As another person said here, more casual events- relics or nihil spellbombs are less expensive to buy and in some cases are superior. The primary annoyance is you cant flashback lingering souls. The ideal play, though, is to lingering souls turn 3, play 4th land on turn 4, flashback souls, then RiP.
Do you run disenchant just for lantern control; and chalice?
Yes.
And Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon (also why I don't run Sundering Growth), The Racks, Leylines, all sorts of other combo pieces (Ad naus, KCI...) and it can help against some creature strategies (Affinity, Batterskull, Walking Ballista...). diateone is right, the list goes on.
And the mirror. Who ever has the the most anthems will win.
Why Auriok champion instead of burrenton forge-tender?
Synergy with the token producers, especially Bitterblossom.
Burrenton, Kor Firewalker or any other red hoser is also fine but Auriok Champion also has Protection from Black.
I hadnt thought about Blood Moon because I dont see it much in my meta. Good point on sundering growth vs disenchant
the sphere is mainly for those 2 matchups yes (although I think storm is already a bit favoured), but can be also used against other decks like elves, eggs, living end (I saw a guy playing living end facing a sphere and he was looking rather annoyed)... but those are more of fringe scenarios I would say, I have not tested it against them.
Disenchant is a basic SB card that should never be left out of any SB. Almost every deck has targets for it. Board 1 in against control for detention sphere, and against eldrazi for any pesky EE or ratchet bomb they could bring. I take also 1 in against burn because many lists have bridge now in the SB, and it kills eidolon anyway. Running detention sphere, there is an argument to bring 1/2 against tron too. Bogles, affinity, vial decks (although I personally prefer needle there), worship, leyline... I feel the list never ends.
Auriok gains you way more life and is barely impossible to remove (if they kept their path to exile after SB, that is fine too). Blocks shadows, tasigurs, gurmag anglers, and almost all living end creatures for days. Nowadays, not many red wraths are played in the meta (because of big creatures) and people tend to prefer damnation or wrath effects.
When I play against UW control variants, I see numerous supreme verdict. Not so much detention sphere. I was actually running rootborn defenses in the SB just because of the verdict. No one expects it. Is disenchant good against EE, though? Dont they just play it, and if you cant counter, it resolves, they have priority, and they use it? I hadnt thought about disenchant vs. burn, thanks. Between stony silence in the SB and the RtA list I used to run, affinity wasnt too bad. Running control, I see it being needed vs. affinity.
I realize the Auriok synergy with bitterblossom, but post-SB vs grindy-ish creature opponents I foresee myself SB'ing in something else. My vs Death's shadow matchup was always so favored in my RtA deck. Doesnt it still seem pretty favorable w/ control? I do see anger of the gods in my meta. I'm going to think about this more.
Thanks for the advice guys. I'm figuring out my sideboard now- it's changed a lot now that I'm going the control direction.
Is damping sphere just for tron and storm?
Do you run disenchant just for lantern control; and chalice?
Why Auriok champion instead of burrenton forge-tender?
I'm going to a SCG event in two weeks. I havent been able to play a lot of modern lately because I've been busy, but I'm going to jam as many games as possible leading up to the event. If you guys were going to an event soon, would you run a list similar to what diateone and PlasmaCatcher posted above? I dont currently own bitterblossom, and a few other cards. I've been playing the modern event deck precon, with numerous adjustments- basically an inexpensive raise the alarm variation using cards I already own. I'll be buying the additional cards I need, and I like those two guys' lists. I'll run something similar, which I've been planning to do for a while now.
I have another question- which matchups are you bringing in the board wipes? I see about 2xwraths in many BW tokens SB's, but I'm not sure exactly what it's used for, so I dont run them.
Thanks for your guys' answers. I played MM3, and spaced out on Rootborn Defenses. I just recently put Gideon in the deck, so I'm confident now.
I know playing intelligently is the key- ie when you see a turn one celestial colonnade your prepare yourself for what's to come. Some times it's hard to work through every board wipe
I'll check out the tokens thread!
Guys, I've been out of standard for the last month or so. I've procured a SDCC2016 Liliana, The Last Hope, and I want to put her in a standard deck. Is GB Delirium the best type right now? I dont necessarily want to copy a pro deck, but something like: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/standard-b-g-delirium-27294#paper
It seems like that would work best, and as a bonus GB are my favorite colors.
2) Spirits is also a pain. This deck is something else...it creates a lock T1-4 that you sometimes can not get out of, in some ways I felt like it was worse than Bant CoCo. the ability to leave up soft counters on crucial turns where we must land a ramp spell or play a dragon/Breaker/Chandra meant that I needed to access to enough mana to stick it. The worst aspect was landing a thing, triggering K's Return only to once again be blanked by Selfless Spirit. Add Spell Queller, and our already lacking removal package; it's looking tough.
I thought when we fulfilled the K.Return recursion (in graveyard), we can say there's a trigger on the stack- then if they respond with Avacyn or some other affect that would make us waste our K.Return, we can choose not to recur it. i.e. you have 1 Kozilek's Return in the graveyard, you cast Ulamog, you say trigger on the stack, opponent sacrifices Selfless Spirit for indestructible effect, you choose not to exile K.Return for 5 damage to all creatures and save it for later. Maybe next turn you traverse for World Breaker, say you have a trigger again, opponent probably doesnt have a way to stop you so passes priority, then you exile K. Return and wipe the board.
So you actually board out all of your Ulamogs to make obliteration whiff?
I'm about to switch up my current deck for a change of pace- something similar to that GP Taipei deck.
But, the one I've run has no Ulamog main, 2 in SB. They whiff game 1 if they run mainboard Infinite Obliteration, then game 2 and 3 they probably name Atarka. At that point I'm thinning all of my major threats to no more than 3 each.
I dont think you should run zero Ulamog game 2 or 3 just because of Infinite Obliteration, though. I have other threats in my sideboard like an additional World Breaker, Ulvenwald Hydra, Reality Smasher, and others to round out the threats post-SB.
Woah, congrats to that guy for playing against all the annoying top decks right now. The 3 of's for the creature suite stand out to me; is the reasoning that 1. You don't necessarily want to draw into multiples and 2. Declaration and reflector mage makes playing/having multiples bad anyways? Mainly asking because I don't see why sylvan advocate wouldn't be a 4 of otherwise. Also only 3 jaddi offshoots in the SB.
My totally non-professional-tournament opinion: Infinite Obliteration is popular in my local meta. I've run into particularly grixis colors that run 1-2 in the mainboard with goblin dark-dwellers. I went 2-2 at my last fnm, mostly because of playing against two opponents running main/multiple sb infinite obliterations.
When I sideboard against any black control deck, I thin out all of my major threats to 3 max, some even down to 2. The only one I never put less than 3 is Atarka because he's so good against control with their planeswalkers.
I surprise opponents some times when they name World Breaker or Ulamog, only to find out I have no Ulamog mainboard, sided to 2 WB post-SB, etc, etc
If 4 TKS feel like too much, cut some for Reality Smasher. I personally like Smasher more than TKS vs planeswalkers and control. I can't think of any off the wall tech though.
In my local meta, I love Reality Smasher. It's like my favorite card in the deck. It's so good right now.
I personally havent ran TKS in my 75 in quite a while, and honestly havent missed it. It's a great card, just not what I want right now in gr ramp.
[quote from="Redirus91 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/proven-standard/681847-primer-rg-ramp?comment=578"]how to you guys handle B/W control?
I just hate T2 Transgress taking out my "bridge" while threats rot in my hand.
Not to mention a T4 Thought-knot Seer or Gideon while those threats are rotting puts on too much pressure.
THEN Games 2 and 3 they often side in Reality smasher and make it harder.....
My least favorite match up
4 Reality Smashers in my sideboard is one of the all-stars in my deck. They pressure their planeswalkers and kill them quickly. It's a very difficult card for BW control to deal with.
I also thin out my creatures to no more than 3 ofs, so Infinite Obliteration cant hurt me much.
I drop all but maybe one hedron archive, so it doesnt get unmade. I have a veggies and from beyond from my board to replace the ramp.
I also put in some threats they have to answer, like Tireless Tracker and Nissa (I'm thinking of dropping Nissa, though). I havent played Warping Wail yet in the deck. I feel that my BW control matchup is very favorable. I rarely lose a match to BW control, actually.
how to you guys handle B/W control?
I just hate T2 Transgress taking out my "bridge" while threats rot in my hand.
Not to mention a T4 Thought-knot Seer or Gideon while those threats are rotting puts on too much pressure.
THEN Games 2 and 3 they often side in Reality smasher and make it harder.....
My least favorite match up
4 Reality Smashers in my sideboard is one of the all-stars in my deck. They pressure their planeswalkers and kill them quickly. It's a very difficult card for BW control to deal with.
I also thin out my creatures to no more than 3 ofs, so Infinite Obliteration cant hurt me much.
I also put in some threats they have to answer, like Tireless Tracker and Nissa (I'm thinking of dropping Nissa, though). I havent played Warping Wail yet in the deck. I feel that my BW control matchup is very favorable. I rarely lose a match to BW control, actually.
I'm also running two Gideons and I like it. I'm surprised how often I play him and just want to emblem, based on the game state.
There's a guy at one of the LGS' I go to that occasionally runs Living End- he's also the judge of the event, so he's a good player. I used to run the relics that came with the modern event deck, but playing a lot of M25, I pulled 2 x rest in peace. I made the substitution. I just got back from an event today and RiP basically won my matchup against a Martyr deck (mono white, gains tons of life, uses Emeria the sky ruin and other bring back from the GY stuff). If you're going to anything competitive or your local meta warrants, RiP is the best GY hate. I run two.
As another person said here, more casual events- relics or nihil spellbombs are less expensive to buy and in some cases are superior. The primary annoyance is you cant flashback lingering souls. The ideal play, though, is to lingering souls turn 3, play 4th land on turn 4, flashback souls, then RiP.
I hadnt thought about Blood Moon because I dont see it much in my meta. Good point on sundering growth vs disenchant
When I play against UW control variants, I see numerous supreme verdict. Not so much detention sphere. I was actually running rootborn defenses in the SB just because of the verdict. No one expects it. Is disenchant good against EE, though? Dont they just play it, and if you cant counter, it resolves, they have priority, and they use it? I hadnt thought about disenchant vs. burn, thanks. Between stony silence in the SB and the RtA list I used to run, affinity wasnt too bad. Running control, I see it being needed vs. affinity.
I realize the Auriok synergy with bitterblossom, but post-SB vs grindy-ish creature opponents I foresee myself SB'ing in something else. My vs Death's shadow matchup was always so favored in my RtA deck. Doesnt it still seem pretty favorable w/ control? I do see anger of the gods in my meta. I'm going to think about this more.
Is damping sphere just for tron and storm?
Do you run disenchant just for lantern control; and chalice?
Why Auriok champion instead of burrenton forge-tender?
I have another question- which matchups are you bringing in the board wipes? I see about 2xwraths in many BW tokens SB's, but I'm not sure exactly what it's used for, so I dont run them.
I know playing intelligently is the key- ie when you see a turn one celestial colonnade your prepare yourself for what's to come. Some times it's hard to work through every board wipe
I'll check out the tokens thread!
It'd be nice to have a heroic intervention type of effect as maybe a 2 of in my SB.
It seems like that would work best, and as a bonus GB are my favorite colors.
I thought when we fulfilled the K.Return recursion (in graveyard), we can say there's a trigger on the stack- then if they respond with Avacyn or some other affect that would make us waste our K.Return, we can choose not to recur it. i.e. you have 1 Kozilek's Return in the graveyard, you cast Ulamog, you say trigger on the stack, opponent sacrifices Selfless Spirit for indestructible effect, you choose not to exile K.Return for 5 damage to all creatures and save it for later. Maybe next turn you traverse for World Breaker, say you have a trigger again, opponent probably doesnt have a way to stop you so passes priority, then you exile K. Return and wipe the board.
I'm about to switch up my current deck for a change of pace- something similar to that GP Taipei deck.
But, the one I've run has no Ulamog main, 2 in SB. They whiff game 1 if they run mainboard Infinite Obliteration, then game 2 and 3 they probably name Atarka. At that point I'm thinning all of my major threats to no more than 3 each.
I dont think you should run zero Ulamog game 2 or 3 just because of Infinite Obliteration, though. I have other threats in my sideboard like an additional World Breaker, Ulvenwald Hydra, Reality Smasher, and others to round out the threats post-SB.
My totally non-professional-tournament opinion: Infinite Obliteration is popular in my local meta. I've run into particularly grixis colors that run 1-2 in the mainboard with goblin dark-dwellers. I went 2-2 at my last fnm, mostly because of playing against two opponents running main/multiple sb infinite obliterations.
When I sideboard against any black control deck, I thin out all of my major threats to 3 max, some even down to 2. The only one I never put less than 3 is Atarka because he's so good against control with their planeswalkers.
I surprise opponents some times when they name World Breaker or Ulamog, only to find out I have no Ulamog mainboard, sided to 2 WB post-SB, etc, etc
In my local meta, I love Reality Smasher. It's like my favorite card in the deck. It's so good right now.
I personally havent ran TKS in my 75 in quite a while, and honestly havent missed it. It's a great card, just not what I want right now in gr ramp.
4 Reality Smashers in my sideboard is one of the all-stars in my deck. They pressure their planeswalkers and kill them quickly. It's a very difficult card for BW control to deal with.
I also thin out my creatures to no more than 3 ofs, so Infinite Obliteration cant hurt me much.
I drop all but maybe one hedron archive, so it doesnt get unmade. I have a veggies and from beyond from my board to replace the ramp.
I also put in some threats they have to answer, like Tireless Tracker and Nissa (I'm thinking of dropping Nissa, though). I havent played Warping Wail yet in the deck. I feel that my BW control matchup is very favorable. I rarely lose a match to BW control, actually.
4 Reality Smashers in my sideboard is one of the all-stars in my deck. They pressure their planeswalkers and kill them quickly. It's a very difficult card for BW control to deal with.
I also thin out my creatures to no more than 3 ofs, so Infinite Obliteration cant hurt me much.
I also put in some threats they have to answer, like Tireless Tracker and Nissa (I'm thinking of dropping Nissa, though). I havent played Warping Wail yet in the deck. I feel that my BW control matchup is very favorable. I rarely lose a match to BW control, actually.