Having tested a bit, how do you feel about 9 CIPT lands? I really want to cast spells on curve, especially turns three and four. Right now I'm playing six, do you think nine is impeding possible plays? I would like to scry more...
I absolutely loved my list. Raise the Alarm played great with Sorin; both it and Bloodsoaked Champion were always useful, even in the face of blockers. Sorin's anthem effect makes it profitable to attack with the champion just to gain some life and raid it back, and four lifelink power (between two alarm tokens) blocking is significant.
If you're playing with thoughtsieze, sign in blood, fetches, pain lands, and mana confluence, lifegain is mandatory. Butcher and Sorin are great curve toppers for reestablishing that which we've lost. Right now I can't imagine departing from my game plan, but i previously considered changing thoughtsieze to despise and sign in blood to tormenting voice, as well as adding a couple of Soul of Innistrad for graveyard value.
Only change I'm going to make right now is mana tweaking. Test this ***** out.
EDIT: forgot to mention how impressed I was with Sorin. He is hot.
I'll get to play Friday morning, I'll let you know what I think about alarm and champion. If I don't like Raise the Alarm, I'll probably shift the mana a hair and go with Tormenting Voice. Bear in mind I have an unreasonable love for loot effects. Faithless Looting is my favorite red card. While this is nowhere as good, it gets you out of awkward situations where you don't have the mana for Butcher of the Horde or have an extra Sorin in hand. Plus, mega value when you discard a Bloodsoaked Champion. I anticipate liking raise the alarm though; synergy with both Sorin and butcher seems huge. I think the life gain from both is going to be vital. I really like playing with my life total, and my mana base plus thoughtsieze and sign in blood is greedy!
Hello, gents. I'm going with a more BWr slant than y'all are, but what do you think? Still efficient threats backed up by disruption and mega removal. Side needs work, please critique.
Trying to push the turn five Master+Butcher goldfish to the max and dodge the lower end sweepers like anger and drown. Got a solid backup plan for all my critters in Sorin if the butcher or master don't show, should be able to hold down the fort with copious removal until the cavalry arrives. Nineteen black sources.
Despite playing poorly tonight, I was extremely happy with the deck. Every game I lost I blame myself. However, games are always tense and fun.
Here's what I'm working with. I have accepted my inner Timmy; honestly I think this is no longer a control deck, but more long term (or big?) tempo. Here it is:
Any game I went monstrous with Ember Swallower, I won. A 6/6 flier (Soul of Ravnica) has to be dealt with, especially if hasty. Both of these guys draw removal, making way for walkers. The creature package is powerful, easily able to gobble up early planeswalkers thanks to a hasty creature via Generator Servant. As mentioned, the deck is very mana hungry, and mulligans well. I would like another Dissolve, what should I cut? What do you think in general?
I've decided to try a completely different direction for answering resolved planeswalkers: a hasty Soul of Ravnica via Generator Servant. I'd already exchanged one Jace's Ingenuity for a soul as a top end draw, and they play very well with looting and Jace's +1. Going to play 2 Soul of Ravnica and see how I like it
So I have now faced down a fair number of walker decks, and you are correct, they are an issue. I was trying to come up with reasonable answers, tell me what you think:
Ghor-Clan Rampager. Bloodrush if my attacker gets blocked, I don't like that I already have to have a creature in play the turn my opponent's walker resolves in order to be most effective.
Stoke the Flames is limited in that it won't take care of the higher loyalty boys
Horizon Chimera can represent counter mana, make the decision to let it resolve and then start attacking in the air
Stormbreath Dragon may be the best answer, but paying five means that they will most likely have another window to jam a different threat
Bramblecrush. The cost and sorcery is my only quibble. Most sure fire answer though
I'm also considering playing more Negate, but we can't catch them all. Right now I am leaning towards Ghor-Clan Rampager and Negate, as they are the cheapest. Please give me your thoughts
I almost always -1 the first kiora, unless the board state convinces me otherwise. If I've got the lands in hand I'll kill her myself. This liberal policy makes me want four, but if you're feeling more conservative, I think Xenagos would be an excellent replacement, maybe even +2 Xenagos, the reveler, -1 Chandra, pyromaster and -1 Kiora, the Crashing Wave.
For reasons stated above, I like generator servant. Getting two turns ahead on mana (granted, a one time use) is powerful in establishing a board presence while also keeping counter mana open. I also play four AEtherspouts in the side, and the servant helps insure I don't stumble on my way to five mana.
I do like your suggestions, though to incorporate them I would take the deck in a slightly different direction. Drop the ember swallower game plan and maybe Jace or Chandra, add Nissa and Stormbreath. Probably keep the generator servant since you have even more at five that you could squeak out on turn three. My affection for ember swallower (and the hosing that going monstrous sprays on Nissa) is too strong right now. The power level of those five drops is inherently higher, but I really like the synergy of my current list
I don't think you need mortars in the main, and honestly doubt it has a place in the side for you. You already have burn on turn two if you're facing aggro, as well as caryatid. You continue to clog up the battlefield turn three with a courser; more than likely you'll be able to drop a 4 CMC spell turn three. You have twelve different ways to deal 4 damage to creatures, so I think mortars would be a redundant answer that is dead against control. I've actually dropped mortars from my build as well and have not missed it.
I've gone off the deep end myself: Generator Servant . A strong strategy for me is beating control and midrange opponents to the double spelling stage of the game. Generator servant let's me do that, as well as offering a two mana spell to throw in front of aggro. It let's me cast a walker and keep negate mana up earlier than my opponent, or puts me ahead so I can make ember swallower monstrous and blow up some lands. Here's what I'm playing now:
Dude, I will not lie, I have bramblecrush in the side. I've also considered stoke the flames, but am not quite that desperate yet. Made a significant change recently; with no Nissa, Worldwake on hand to pitch my lands to, I added Ember Swallower. I have been testing four, really committing to the idea of racing ahead of the opponent and cutting off their end game. Only played a Junk Goodstuff deck (6 walkers backed by solid creatures and removal) and boss sligh since new tech, so no control chock full of planeswalkers. However, Counterspells and sweepers to clear the way for combat have been enough so far to keep opposing planeswalkers in check. Against aggro it's nice to have a big body at the four drop instead of a walker that's going to get run over. Not convinced I'll keep it, but it's fun testing. I am convinced Nissa would be a total bomb in this deck. Using Jace TLG +1 followed by Chandra's 0 feels real good, too.
Taken the deck in a slightly different direction, really looking to manipulate the top of my library with Courser of Kruphix and the planeswalkers in colors (Kiora, the Crashing Wave , Jace, the Living Guildpact, and Chandra, Pyromaster ) that let you interact with that top card. Buckled and decided to ramp, so Sylvan Caryatid came off the bench, which forced me to switch sweepers from Anger of the Gods to Mizzium Mortars. The overload costing also pushed me towards more ramp, so I added another Kiora and kept old Ral Zarek around. So now it looks like RUG Superfriends, and it's pretty fun to play. Been lazy with the mana base testing, so I could most likely shave a few Stomping Ground for forests.
Rotation looks like it will be kind to me, probably try out AEtherspouts, Soul of Ravnica, and Keranos, God of Storms along with some other changes. Maybe one of Aggressive Mining or Hammer of Purphoros? I don't need a ton of lands late game. I should really play Nissa, Worldwaker, she seems like a great one or two of. I'll try to pick her up and test.
Nice list, Shoeless Sir. Solid decision to play Mizzium Mortars with your creature set instead of Anger of the Gods . I've been strongly considering Stormbreath Dragon and Chandra Pyromaster myself lately. I don't think Forgeborn Oreads is on the same power level as the rest of the deck. Maybe Font of Fortunes to replace it if you want another enchantment? Your 4 slot is already kind of stacked. Consider Rapid Hybridization as well, I like it more than turn and burn.
If you're playing with thoughtsieze, sign in blood, fetches, pain lands, and mana confluence, lifegain is mandatory. Butcher and Sorin are great curve toppers for reestablishing that which we've lost. Right now I can't imagine departing from my game plan, but i previously considered changing thoughtsieze to despise and sign in blood to tormenting voice, as well as adding a couple of Soul of Innistrad for graveyard value.
Only change I'm going to make right now is mana tweaking. Test this ***** out.
EDIT: forgot to mention how impressed I was with Sorin. He is hot.
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Master of the Feast
4 Butcher of the Horde
Spells:25
3 Thoughtseize
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Sign in Blood
2 Banishing Light
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Mardu Charm
2 Utter End
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
3 Battlefield Forge
3 Bloodstained Mire
4 Caves of Koilos
3 Mana Confluence
1 Mountain
3 Swamp
2 Temple of Malice
4 Temple of Silence
3 Dark Betrayal
3 Despise
3 Ulcerate
4 Drown in Sorrow
2 Crackling Doom
Trying to push the turn five Master+Butcher goldfish to the max and dodge the lower end sweepers like anger and drown. Got a solid backup plan for all my critters in Sorin if the butcher or master don't show, should be able to hold down the fort with copious removal until the cavalry arrives. Nineteen black sources.
Here's what I'm working with. I have accepted my inner Timmy; honestly I think this is no longer a control deck, but more long term (or big?) tempo. Here it is:
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Mana Confluence
2 Mountain
4 Shivan Reef
3 Temple of Abandon
3 Temple of Epiphany
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Yavimaya Coast
Creatures
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Generator Servant
4 Courser of Kruphix
3 Ember Swallower
3 Soul of Ravnica
2 Syncopate
1 Negate
1 Dissolve
3 Izzet Charm
3 Jace's Ingenuity
Walkers
3 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Jace, the Living Guildpact
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Aetherspouts
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Bramblecrush
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Curse of the Swine
3 Xenagos, the Reveler
Any game I went monstrous with Ember Swallower, I won. A 6/6 flier (Soul of Ravnica) has to be dealt with, especially if hasty. Both of these guys draw removal, making way for walkers. The creature package is powerful, easily able to gobble up early planeswalkers thanks to a hasty creature via Generator Servant. As mentioned, the deck is very mana hungry, and mulligans well. I would like another Dissolve, what should I cut? What do you think in general?
Ghor-Clan Rampager. Bloodrush if my attacker gets blocked, I don't like that I already have to have a creature in play the turn my opponent's walker resolves in order to be most effective.
Stoke the Flames is limited in that it won't take care of the higher loyalty boys
Horizon Chimera can represent counter mana, make the decision to let it resolve and then start attacking in the air
Stormbreath Dragon may be the best answer, but paying five means that they will most likely have another window to jam a different threat
Bramblecrush. The cost and sorcery is my only quibble. Most sure fire answer though
I'm also considering playing more Negate, but we can't catch them all. Right now I am leaning towards Ghor-Clan Rampager and Negate, as they are the cheapest. Please give me your thoughts
For reasons stated above, I like generator servant. Getting two turns ahead on mana (granted, a one time use) is powerful in establishing a board presence while also keeping counter mana open. I also play four AEtherspouts in the side, and the servant helps insure I don't stumble on my way to five mana.
I do like your suggestions, though to incorporate them I would take the deck in a slightly different direction. Drop the ember swallower game plan and maybe Jace or Chandra, add Nissa and Stormbreath. Probably keep the generator servant since you have even more at five that you could squeak out on turn three. My affection for ember swallower (and the hosing that going monstrous sprays on Nissa) is too strong right now. The power level of those five drops is inherently higher, but I really like the synergy of my current list
I've gone off the deep end myself: Generator Servant . A strong strategy for me is beating control and midrange opponents to the double spelling stage of the game. Generator servant let's me do that, as well as offering a two mana spell to throw in front of aggro. It let's me cast a walker and keep negate mana up earlier than my opponent, or puts me ahead so I can make ember swallower monstrous and blow up some lands. Here's what I'm playing now:
4 Breeding Pool
2 Mana Confluence
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Epiphany
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Generator Servant
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Ember Swallower
Instants
2 Syncopate
1 Negate
1 Dissolve
3 Izzet Charm
3 Jace's Ingenuity
4 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Jace, the Living Guildpact
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Izzet Charm is pretty important. I really hope we get a good loot spell in Khans
4 Breeding Pool
2 Mana Confluence
4 Steam Vents
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Epiphany
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Courser of Kruphix
1 AEtherling
Counterspells
2 Swan Song
1 Counterflux
1 Plasm Capture
2 Dissolve
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Izzet Charm
3 Mizzium Mortars
Walkers
4 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2 Ral Zarek
2 Jace, the Living Guildpact
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Rotation looks like it will be kind to me, probably try out AEtherspouts, Soul of Ravnica, and Keranos, God of Storms along with some other changes. Maybe one of Aggressive Mining or Hammer of Purphoros? I don't need a ton of lands late game. I should really play Nissa, Worldwaker, she seems like a great one or two of. I'll try to pick her up and test.