4 path is a lot for burn, it shows how much I dislike eldrazi and DSJ. I think typically it's a 2-3.
I've often felt it's very hard to keep up with the amount of lords you have and that my creatures are quickly outclassed. But I will definitely give this a try.
If your ever interested I'd love to get some games in on MTGO, try out your suggestions vs a skilled fish pilot.
Also how insane is grim lavamancer vs you?
I always felt Lavamancer was situational. From my personal experience I've beaten the card more often than not. He's mana intensive, does not have haste, can sometimes be staring at an empty graveyard, sometimes my creatures are out of range for him. I can interact with harbinger and tidebinder. He's not useless, I've definitely lost to him before.
We can probably arrange playing a match or two, though I generally prefer to play in competitive leagues.
I don't know all the match ups you're hoping to improve with this thing, but Lantern is already a win, and affinity is not even worth preparing for given you may not even see it more than once in a 15 round GP, or at all. Not to mention your 75 has so much game against it anyway.
Well Affinity is still a Tier 1 deck and I may not be at a GP but in the 2 metas/states I play/played in Affinity was is like 1 in for games. Everyones meta is different. Thats why my sideboard pill is almost a full deck depending on a variety of factors since metas and the format continues to grow and switch directions. It wasnt long ago Burn needed cards to deal with Twin and Pod (Damn Kiki Pod/Resto Angel) variants so cards like Rending Volley and Combust were around. And who knows maybe the meta shifts again or a new deck will emerge like Death's Shadow and we will need Harsh or we may not need it for 5 years. Its just nice to know we have more options/tech which Im sure every deck wants.
Something a lot of Magic players have trouble accepting is that they can't beat everything. If you're a world class player you're only winning 2/3 games. I'm offering the advice to just dump the affinity match. Its a unique deck because if everyone's prepared, it generally folds to hate. Even if it doesn't fold to hate, you have natural sideboard cards you can bring in against it. I could be wrong but I feel burn has more important battles to fight.
Certainly if you play in a small meta and there is tons of affinity, then do what you have to do. Though I figure red already has all the sideboard cards to hate on affinity if it really wants to without the aid of mentor.
A lot more has to do with how the burn player plays. A card I definitely hate though is Searing Blood in addition to Searing Blaze. Give a list and your sideboard strategy and I'll tell you what you should be really doing.
Currently I'm tuned mostly to trying to beat eldrazi and DSJ. But I like to add options to my list if they give enough points in more then one match up. Thoughts and suggestions appreciated.
Edit: vs fish I would probably only board in d rev for sea and vial and side out skullcrack and some number of lava spike
So first off, you have to beat merfolk with creatures. If you have a starting hand without creatures, send it back for 6. All your spells should ideally interact with creatures. For that Reason I would bring in 4x path and 2-3x Destructive Revelry. Path will tempo out the creatures to clear the way for yours. Revelry will set Merfolk way back if you nail their Vial and it will protect you from Spreading seas/Sea's Claim. Likely you'll Definitely want this card on the draw when Seas is strongest and maybe you can shave one on the play because many Merfolk players don't want to play seas on the draw vs burn.
Play
+4 Path (isn't 4 path a lot for a burn deck?)
+3 Destructive Revelry
-4 Boros Charm
-2 Skull Crack
-1 Lava spike.
Draw
+4 Path (isn't 4 path a lot for a burn deck?)
+3 Destructive Revelry
-3 Boros Charm
-4 Atarka's Command
I'm hoping 4 paths isn't too many, probably it's still good. This is a plan made in the dark without knowing our merfolk opponent's plan. Atarka's Command is very powerful on the play especially when you won't be vulnerable to spreading Seas. On the draw you'll have trouble getting creatures to stick efficiently through harbinger and tidebinder Mage. Also your mana might get ruined by Spreading Seas/Seas Claim which is why Boros charm is also awkward. At least Skull Crack can use the Spreading Seas Mana.
Some things to consider:
If the opponent plays chalice or spellskite, bring in all the Revelries.
If the opponent plays Chalice, side out Lava Spike and Keep in Boros Charm/Skull Crack to play around chalice on 1.
If you can, play around spell pierce in the late game by always holding up 2 extra mana when you play your spells.
be patient with some of your burn spells that can target creatures. They likely should be killing merfolk to clear the way for your creatures instead of going to the player's face. The creatures are worth so much damage.
Remember, Rift Bolt plays around Dispel
Obviously the best time to play around counterspells is when Merfolk is tapped out, thats when you can carelessly send all the burn like Skull Crack, 1 Boros Charm, and Atarka's Command to their face.
I think that's all I can think of.
In the event that the Draw plan doesn't work because Path is awkward on the draw, you can just go with this:
Draw
+3 Destructive Revelry
-3 Atarka's Command
A lot more has to do with how the burn player plays, ideally I think they should play like a zoo deck. A card I definitely hate though is Searing Blood in addition to Searing Blaze. Give a list and your sideboard strategy and I'll tell you what you should be really doing.
First, congrats on a super awesome GP Vancouver finish! You're all foil Japanese sushi deck is really sweet. Secondly, thank you for posting your opinion on these new cards in the thread.
You've outlined well the arguments, I personally think the fetch land aspect alone might make this worth inclusion in the few flex spots as having either this or Eidolon T2 every game seems good vs the field. However I do believe the card will be more impactful in Legacy then in Modern. But testing will tell.
Also, we were discussing Merfolk either and the question of Vial came up and how often do you side them out? Do you generally side them out on the draw or against match ups you're expecting artifact/enchantment hate game 2 & 3?
thanks!
Mentor will look okay on the play because of fetchlands, but that's why it will be catastrophic on the draw. Knowing the existence of Mentor will force people to play their fetchlands first and play their non-fetch lands later in the game. If the opponent has removal, then what they do on the play/draw doesn't matter.
Against burn I cannot afford to ever take out Aether Vial because Eidolon would just ruin me. I also want to be able to deploy creatures and hold up counter magic. I understand I run into Smash to Smitherines or Destructive Revelry, but that's a risk I have to take. Even if you don't play Eidolon, if I take out Vial it's highly likely I'll get tempo'd out more often than not by just 1-2 creatures backed up by a bunch of burn.
Otherwise, I almost never think about vial destruction. Most decks don't care about my vial Sometimes I'll side it out if a UWx control deck sided in Stony Silence. I do side out Vial often though, but for the purposes of keeping the threat density of my deck high.
I'm certain Burn is a 50-50 match up vs Merfolk even though the Merfolk forum thinks it's favourable and the Burn forum thinks their a dog. 90% of my burn wins come from my opponent making blunders. If I had their hands I would beat myself. Certainly there are some Merfolk lists that are favourable vs burn, but I think you should still have a lot of game.
Nacatl is horrible right now. I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole.
Regarding the Mentor... I sat down and thought about a list of decks in which I'd consider sideboarding it in (aka every deck that's light on removal), and I came away impressed with the results. Here's my list:
That's not a bad list. The big-mana ones I'm skeptical on whether I'd actually side it in or not (since Burn's matchup there is good, and it's tough to find what to take out), but overall I'm thinking it has a home.
I sincerely think half this list doesn't care. The half that does care might be a good match up for you anyway.
Abzan Company- I have no idea how this match plays out so I'm not going to guess.
Affinity- Good, but do you need it? Does it kill them to activate Plating once to equip to Vault Skirge and gain a ton of life anyway? Plus it's the type of match up you might not even see given the meta can crush them.
Bant Eldrazi- does not care about this card
Death and Taxes- Does not care about this card
Eldrazi Tron- There is some value to be gained here, still if they equip a giant creature with collar you're in trouble (otherwise they never equip). I could be wrong but somehow I see this as a winnable match up anyway.
Tron- Very good here, but isn't this a bye for burn?
Merfolk- It's nice to have extra creatures backed up with tons of removal for anything that gets in the way, but all the creatures will trade with this guy. It sounds annoying at best.
Valakut- Good here, but isn't this also favourable?
Lol, the burn community is just burning themselves to the ground
Harsh Mentor is too niche. It will get some value sometimes on the play because of fetchlands but be pretty awful on the draw. Most critical is that if this trades for a removal spell without getting in damage, you're at a huge loss. It's like inquision, save 2-3 life. You're effectively a combo deck and these exchanges are catastrophic. It doesn't help that Fatal Push is the premiere removal spell of the format.
The only positive side I see is that it is an extra creature that you can use to hedge against Leyline of Sanctity decks to sort of zoo them out.
To side this in from the sideboard, however, sounds disgusting. Your opponents are siding in haymakers, as you know, so this "incremental value" won't cut it.
Giving your opponent the choice to deal damage to themselves or not will ALWAYS work out in their flavour. It's not like Eidolon that restricts them from casting spells which otherwise gives you a lot of tempo.
I don't know all the match ups you're hoping to improve with this thing, but Lantern is already a win, and affinity is not even worth preparing for given you may not even see it more than once in a 15 round GP, or at all. Not to mention your 75 has so much game against it anyway.
It's harder to tell if Soul-Scar Mage will do a good nacatl impersonation given Burn has moved away from the green. The Mage is likely only as positioned as Nacatl is positioned. I would be concerned that if the sorcery speed 3/3 turn 1 creature doesn't cut it, neither will the Mage. Or the turn 2 mentor!
I personally haven't played Burn in modern but I've played my fair share of RDW over my lifetime so my opinion isn't completely baseless.
Of course everyone is going to playtest both (as they should anyway). I would put my bet on the Mage though, given Nacatl has proven its worth at least once in history. It also has the potential to get value before perishing to removal.
Sorry if the vid looked clickbaity. Obviously I rarely post anything here so if I did I figured it would have been useful for you.
I will make Venser great again! Some of it stems from the fact that MoW is sort of at a low despite being very good anyway.
Just imagine
Threads of Disloyalty your Tarmogoyf
They fatal push the Tarmogoyf
Venser my Threads back to hand. All the value!
I'm serious though, I'm testing him in the near future. I'm just starting to think of all sorts of interactions across the meta I could use Venser for that I couldn't in the past. It's like when I realized when Clique was suddenly good again.
just started the video, the first thing i'm wondering is... why would you run more than 1 steam vents?
it could def be a design flaw. The deck I copied only played 1 steam vents. It could be randomly Spreading seased, fulminator maged, or blown up somehow. But it might not be as big of an issue as I feared.
you probably just want to try to keep the vents in the deck until you're ready to deploy your blood moon.
if you already have a blood moon in play then it doesn't matter if your steam vents is destroyed.
In practice it will be hard to play like this. Let's say I have a fetch and island in hand with no turn 1 play. Ideally I should play the fetch and grab the steam vents tapped at end of turn. From here on out my steam vents is vulnerable. If I dont get it now it will either cost me more life later or I don't get a vents at all and my topdecked blood moon will be stranded in hand. There are risks either way. I hate splashes
We can probably arrange playing a match or two, though I generally prefer to play in competitive leagues.
Certainly if you play in a small meta and there is tons of affinity, then do what you have to do. Though I figure red already has all the sideboard cards to hate on affinity if it really wants to without the aid of mentor.
Play
+4 Path (isn't 4 path a lot for a burn deck?)
+3 Destructive Revelry
-4 Boros Charm
-2 Skull Crack
-1 Lava spike.
Draw
+4 Path (isn't 4 path a lot for a burn deck?)
+3 Destructive Revelry
-3 Boros Charm
-4 Atarka's Command
I'm hoping 4 paths isn't too many, probably it's still good. This is a plan made in the dark without knowing our merfolk opponent's plan. Atarka's Command is very powerful on the play especially when you won't be vulnerable to spreading Seas. On the draw you'll have trouble getting creatures to stick efficiently through harbinger and tidebinder Mage. Also your mana might get ruined by Spreading Seas/Seas Claim which is why Boros charm is also awkward. At least Skull Crack can use the Spreading Seas Mana.
Some things to consider:
If the opponent plays chalice or spellskite, bring in all the Revelries.
If the opponent plays Chalice, side out Lava Spike and Keep in Boros Charm/Skull Crack to play around chalice on 1.
If you can, play around spell pierce in the late game by always holding up 2 extra mana when you play your spells.
be patient with some of your burn spells that can target creatures. They likely should be killing merfolk to clear the way for your creatures instead of going to the player's face. The creatures are worth so much damage.
Remember, Rift Bolt plays around Dispel
Obviously the best time to play around counterspells is when Merfolk is tapped out, thats when you can carelessly send all the burn like Skull Crack, 1 Boros Charm, and Atarka's Command to their face.
I think that's all I can think of.
In the event that the Draw plan doesn't work because Path is awkward on the draw, you can just go with this:
Draw
+3 Destructive Revelry
-3 Atarka's Command
Mentor will look okay on the play because of fetchlands, but that's why it will be catastrophic on the draw. Knowing the existence of Mentor will force people to play their fetchlands first and play their non-fetch lands later in the game. If the opponent has removal, then what they do on the play/draw doesn't matter.
Against burn I cannot afford to ever take out Aether Vial because Eidolon would just ruin me. I also want to be able to deploy creatures and hold up counter magic. I understand I run into Smash to Smitherines or Destructive Revelry, but that's a risk I have to take. Even if you don't play Eidolon, if I take out Vial it's highly likely I'll get tempo'd out more often than not by just 1-2 creatures backed up by a bunch of burn.
Otherwise, I almost never think about vial destruction. Most decks don't care about my vial
I'm certain Burn is a 50-50 match up vs Merfolk even though the Merfolk forum thinks it's favourable and the Burn forum thinks their a dog. 90% of my burn wins come from my opponent making blunders. If I had their hands I would beat myself. Certainly there are some Merfolk lists that are favourable vs burn, but I think you should still have a lot of game.
I sincerely think half this list doesn't care. The half that does care might be a good match up for you anyway.
Abzan Company- I have no idea how this match plays out so I'm not going to guess.
Affinity- Good, but do you need it? Does it kill them to activate Plating once to equip to Vault Skirge and gain a ton of life anyway? Plus it's the type of match up you might not even see given the meta can crush them.
Bant Eldrazi- does not care about this card
Death and Taxes- Does not care about this card
Eldrazi Tron- There is some value to be gained here, still if they equip a giant creature with collar you're in trouble (otherwise they never equip). I could be wrong but somehow I see this as a winnable match up anyway.
Tron- Very good here, but isn't this a bye for burn?
Merfolk- It's nice to have extra creatures backed up with tons of removal for anything that gets in the way, but all the creatures will trade with this guy. It sounds annoying at best.
Valakut- Good here, but isn't this also favourable?
Harsh Mentor is too niche. It will get some value sometimes on the play because of fetchlands but be pretty awful on the draw. Most critical is that if this trades for a removal spell without getting in damage, you're at a huge loss. It's like inquision, save 2-3 life. You're effectively a combo deck and these exchanges are catastrophic. It doesn't help that Fatal Push is the premiere removal spell of the format.
The only positive side I see is that it is an extra creature that you can use to hedge against Leyline of Sanctity decks to sort of zoo them out.
To side this in from the sideboard, however, sounds disgusting. Your opponents are siding in haymakers, as you know, so this "incremental value" won't cut it.
Giving your opponent the choice to deal damage to themselves or not will ALWAYS work out in their flavour. It's not like Eidolon that restricts them from casting spells which otherwise gives you a lot of tempo.
I don't know all the match ups you're hoping to improve with this thing, but Lantern is already a win, and affinity is not even worth preparing for given you may not even see it more than once in a 15 round GP, or at all. Not to mention your 75 has so much game against it anyway.
It's harder to tell if Soul-Scar Mage will do a good nacatl impersonation given Burn has moved away from the green. The Mage is likely only as positioned as Nacatl is positioned. I would be concerned that if the sorcery speed 3/3 turn 1 creature doesn't cut it, neither will the Mage. Or the turn 2 mentor!
I personally haven't played Burn in modern but I've played my fair share of RDW over my lifetime so my opinion isn't completely baseless.
Of course everyone is going to playtest both (as they should anyway). I would put my bet on the Mage though, given Nacatl has proven its worth at least once in history. It also has the potential to get value before perishing to removal.
Sorry if the vid looked clickbaity. Obviously I rarely post anything here so if I did I figured it would have been useful for you.
But I totally get why you're all upset.
I would hate losing to lifegain too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzcXT2lOK8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzcXT2lOK8
Just imagine
Threads of Disloyalty your Tarmogoyf
They fatal push the Tarmogoyf
Venser my Threads back to hand. All the value!
I'm serious though, I'm testing him in the near future. I'm just starting to think of all sorts of interactions across the meta I could use Venser for that I couldn't in the past. It's like when I realized when Clique was suddenly good again.
Make Venser Great Again!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPzcXT2lOK8