PTQ yesterday. Went with an excellent U/G list below. Lost my win-and-in round in a razor-close game 3 in round 7 vs Affinity. I mulliganed a ton all day, but the deck was terrific even on 5 or 6-card hands. I mulliganed to 4 against affinity and won. Living End is a bad matchup and I didn't really play anything in my board against it. I felt favored against everything else, although the last affinity build was more burn-heavy--which was how he pushed past me in game 3.
I'm going to list a few goodies here and hopefully add to it over time. Payment by paypal gift (or absorb the fees yourself). Scans can be made available if necessary. Shipping is free if order is over $10. Otherwise it is $1. Buyer will pay first. I am haymaker18 on eBay and am a power seller with 100% positive feedback over the last 13 years.
1x The Abyss (Italian) (Legends) $95 1x Overgrown Tomb SP (Ravnica: City of Guilds) $12 1x Hallowed Fountain SP (Dissension) $14
1x Remand SP/LP (Ravnica: City of Guilds) $4
1x Visara the Dreadful FOIL (Onslaught) SP $10
1x Price of Progress NM (Exodus) $3.50
1x Price of Progress FOIL (Fire & Lightning) NM $3.50 2x Supreme Verdict NM (Return to Ravnica) $4
1x Griselbrand NM (Avacyn Restored) $8
4x Birthing Pod NM/SP (New Phyrexia) $3
1x Grim Lavamancer NM (Magic 2012) $1
1x Gifts Ungiven NM (Champions of Kamigawa) $9.50 2x Maze of Ith HP (just edge wear/whitening) (The Dark) $21
1x Oracle of Mul Daya FOIL NM- (Zendikar) $8 1x Terminus NM (Avacyn Restored) $7.50 4x Venser, Shaper Savant NM (Future Sight) $7.50
Awesome input. After some tweaking and online play testing, I basically came up with a deck similar to the popular ones nowadays. Looking for 2 more cards.
I have read through all pages of this primer, a lot of great information. Many other questions while creating this deck. Note: my meta is basically reanimator, merfolk, goblins, and elves.
1) Is Snapcaster Mage THAT good? I have yet to use him, but I feel it could be easy to take out 1-2 if needed.
2) Vexing Devil still stimulates a lot of thought. I will proxy him but I feel he wouldn't flow nicely with my deck. Then again if I put him in, I wouldn't know who to play on 1st turn.
3) I believe 18 lands can do the trick and with that I have 2 slots open. ...suggestions?
4) What does this deck really struggle against? And where does it have really favorable matches? I'd like to create a SB based mostly upon a balance of where it struggles, as apposed to what could be in the meta.
Personally, I'd add one more land (Misty Rainforest) and one more Counterspell (Daze, Force, Spell Pierce, or straight Counterspell). 18 lands is just greedy, in my opinion.
Duels aren't the only things in legacy that drive people away (budget wise) some of the staplesarejustexpensive
The four cards you mentioned:
1) Candelabra is not a staple. It's expensive, yes, but it's only played in one fringe deck. That deck is playable without the Candelabras too.
2) Tarmogoyf was expensive (picked them up under $60 less than a year ago on retail sites) and then the announcement of Modern shot it up to its current value. Yes, it's expensive.
3) Force of will has always been expensive, but you don't need to play blue.
4) Show and Tell recently spiked, but it won't stay as the "best deck" forever. It will fall when the format adjusts.
Fun fact: Sunday's Legacy tournament at the SCG Open only had one blue deck make top 8.
Nothing short of (near) functional reprints can keep dual lands from rising to prohibitive prices. If this happens the market will eventually collapse as Vintage has - high value on paper but no buyers in practice. this is a long way off, but worthy of concern for us who wish to play legacy for years to come.
But you're talking about two different things: 1) the prices of Legacy staples and 2) the sustainability and interest in playing the format.
If we've learned anything from Vintage, it's that these two are not always connected. As you point out, less people are playing Vintage, yet the prices keep rising.
I'm still not sure what the actual conversation for this board is about, since it's been debunked on every page. The format is not collapsing. Prices are rising, not falling. SCG is as committed as ever to running Legacy tournaments. Legacy is still a GP format for officially sanctioned tournaments. And Legacy is the eventual end-point for a significant portion of all the money that's spent on Magic: the Gathering. By that I mean that players typically start in Standard and then end in Legacy.
And from someone who played back in the day (1996-97) and witnessed the death of Vintage I can tell you it IS something that everyone who loves Legacy has an interest in.
And if we accept that out of the current player base some people will in time quit playing Legacy (or just magic in general) then for the format to survive you need fresh people who have not played Legacy before to start up.
1) Vintage got sick when the whole game of Magic got sick (Homelands and Ice Age in 1996). If people think the game has a dismal future, they're not going to buy cards at all, whether they are old or new. That's not the case right now. MTG is enjoying the most popularity and growth it has ever had. The MTG brand has been Hasbro's most profitable brand for the last two calendar years by a wide margin. New people are playing and everyone's buying boxes. Standard is the gateway drug to the other formats, so it makes sense that more Legacy/Modern cards are being bought because more people are playing the game.
2) I don't think anyone would accept your 2nd premise. The prices and popularity of Legacy cards indicate that there are plenty of people moving into Legacy to offset the numbers moving out of Legacy. And let's be honest, you don't move "out of legacy" unless you're quitting Magic altogether. If your argument is that eventually people quit playing Magic, then no one should ever buy cards because there's a chance that the game might die. So far, the exact opposite has happened, even during a 3+ year recession.
I love the idea and it will definitely catch people off guard. But one Spell Pierce on your Opalescence gives you serious trouble. Suddenly you just have a bunch of worthless Leylines and you'll die to combo or Mongeese pretty quick.
So you mean a creature base like this?
4 Delver
4 Vexing Devil
3 Guide
3 Snappy
2 Lavamancer?
That's a really good idea, and still gives a 16 creature base which is what I like.
To answer your question I'm currently running 7-8 bolts (sometimes cutting 1 chain lightning depending on what Im doing with the deck) and I also run 7 Brainstorm+Ponder.
Currently my counter set looks like this
3 FoW
3 Spell Pierce
1 Daze
I really love Daze but it's not as useful mid-game as spell pierce.... I still would love to work in a second but as you know the decklist is extremely tight.
Running 16 creatures means that your delvers are less likely to flip when you need them to.
New to legacy, trying to play U/R delver as it seems to be the most user friendly deck for me. Is there a page that shows good sideboard options, or moreso gameplans vs certain decks?
Such as:
Sneak and Show (My plan so far is obviously FoW's combined with Daze and Spell Pierce, however a friend got me on an Ensnaring Bridge and Gilded Drake Plan vs them too so I might try a 2 of SB as losing to combo is prolly the least fun ever)
Dredge (I have no idea what is best for them and im running snapcaster so i figured I would run surgical instead of crypt or relic, however lack the knowledge of what is most crucial for them -- If they turn 1 discard a dredge, would it be wise to just surgical it so as to slow them down or just wait till i see something important?)Do I take out counters against them? If so, how many etc etc
High Tide (no idea)
Counter-Top (same as above)
Reanimator (I figure with the right counters at the right time, plus surgical this should be easy, once again I would bring in ensnaring bridge/gilded grake just to hinder them from attacking I suppose) As a griselbrand wont do them much good if they are at a life total low enough to not be able to draw or attack so they can)
RUG Delver (Kill them before gofy/mongoose get big?)
Stoneblade (no idea....)
Elves (what is the spells i need to counter/kill)
Goblins (Burn the creatures every chance I get?)
Maverick (dont let jitte/knight/mother or runes hit play?)
How much of my logic is completely flawed/correct etc... any comments would be nice.
Good questions. Here's a sideboarding plan from a very good U/R player (not me!):
The problem with Ghost Quarter is it often enables them to have one extra mana in the timing.
If you play it during their turn, they'll tap the nonbasic for mana, search for a basic, and then tap the basic for mana. Now they're able to cast a bigger spell that turn.
If you play it on your own turn, they can still tap it to play instants.
For Ghost Quarter to be good, you really have to know whether your opponent has basics or not. If they do, it's not worth playing (in my opinion) outside of the Boros landfall deck.
Round 1: W/G hatebears (2-0)
Round 2: Living End (1-2)
Round 3: Affinity (2-0)
Round 4: Jund (2-1)
Round 5: RG Tron (2-0)
Round 6: Affinity (2-0)
Round 7: Affinity (1-2)
4 Glistener Elf
4 Blighted Agent
4 Viridian Corrupter
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Mutagenic Growth
4 Might of Old Krosa
4 Groundswell
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Apostle's Blessing
2 Distortion Strike
1 Wild Defiance
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Pendelhaven
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
Sideboard:
3 Twisted Image
3 Dismember
1 Wild Defiance
2 Spellskite
3 Nature's Claim
3 Dispel
I'm going to list a few goodies here and hopefully add to it over time. Payment by paypal gift (or absorb the fees yourself). Scans can be made available if necessary. Shipping is free if order is over $10. Otherwise it is $1. Buyer will pay first. I am haymaker18 on eBay and am a power seller with 100% positive feedback over the last 13 years.
1x The Abyss (Italian) (Legends) $951x Overgrown Tomb SP (Ravnica: City of Guilds) $121x Hallowed Fountain SP (Dissension) $141x Remand SP/LP (Ravnica: City of Guilds) $4
1x Visara the Dreadful FOIL (Onslaught) SP $10
1x Price of Progress NM (Exodus) $3.50
1x Price of Progress FOIL (Fire & Lightning) NM $3.50
2x Supreme Verdict NM (Return to Ravnica) $4
1x Griselbrand NM (Avacyn Restored) $8
4x Birthing Pod NM/SP (New Phyrexia) $3
1x Grim Lavamancer NM (Magic 2012) $1
1x Gifts Ungiven NM (Champions of Kamigawa) $9.50
2x Maze of Ith HP (just edge wear/whitening) (The Dark) $211x Oracle of Mul Daya FOIL NM- (Zendikar) $8
1x Terminus NM (Avacyn Restored) $7.504x Venser, Shaper Savant NM (Future Sight) $7.5050 + 50 + 50
I'd pay up to $375, but no more. You're saving him Ebay fees here too.
I feel your pain. I'm in Lawrence and there's only 2 shops within 40 miles - and they only do standard.
The only place I've found is something called "the basement" in Zona Rosa (north KC-ish):
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Basement-Games-and-Hobbies/130240173653413?sk=info
They have modern and legacy (or at least they used to). hope that helps.
Personally, I'd add one more land (Misty Rainforest) and one more Counterspell (Daze, Force, Spell Pierce, or straight Counterspell). 18 lands is just greedy, in my opinion.
The four cards you mentioned:
1) Candelabra is not a staple. It's expensive, yes, but it's only played in one fringe deck. That deck is playable without the Candelabras too.
2) Tarmogoyf was expensive (picked them up under $60 less than a year ago on retail sites) and then the announcement of Modern shot it up to its current value. Yes, it's expensive.
3) Force of will has always been expensive, but you don't need to play blue.
4) Show and Tell recently spiked, but it won't stay as the "best deck" forever. It will fall when the format adjusts.
Fun fact: Sunday's Legacy tournament at the SCG Open only had one blue deck make top 8.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=3&start_date=2012-06-24&end_date=2012-06-24&event_ID=20&city=Detroit
The format's not dying. It's wide open when 2 elf decks make top 4...
But you're talking about two different things: 1) the prices of Legacy staples and 2) the sustainability and interest in playing the format.
If we've learned anything from Vintage, it's that these two are not always connected. As you point out, less people are playing Vintage, yet the prices keep rising.
I'm still not sure what the actual conversation for this board is about, since it's been debunked on every page. The format is not collapsing. Prices are rising, not falling. SCG is as committed as ever to running Legacy tournaments. Legacy is still a GP format for officially sanctioned tournaments. And Legacy is the eventual end-point for a significant portion of all the money that's spent on Magic: the Gathering. By that I mean that players typically start in Standard and then end in Legacy.
1) Vintage got sick when the whole game of Magic got sick (Homelands and Ice Age in 1996). If people think the game has a dismal future, they're not going to buy cards at all, whether they are old or new. That's not the case right now. MTG is enjoying the most popularity and growth it has ever had. The MTG brand has been Hasbro's most profitable brand for the last two calendar years by a wide margin. New people are playing and everyone's buying boxes. Standard is the gateway drug to the other formats, so it makes sense that more Legacy/Modern cards are being bought because more people are playing the game.
2) I don't think anyone would accept your 2nd premise. The prices and popularity of Legacy cards indicate that there are plenty of people moving into Legacy to offset the numbers moving out of Legacy. And let's be honest, you don't move "out of legacy" unless you're quitting Magic altogether. If your argument is that eventually people quit playing Magic, then no one should ever buy cards because there's a chance that the game might die. So far, the exact opposite has happened, even during a 3+ year recession.
I love the idea and it will definitely catch people off guard. But one Spell Pierce on your Opalescence gives you serious trouble. Suddenly you just have a bunch of worthless Leylines and you'll die to combo or Mongeese pretty quick.
Running 16 creatures means that your delvers are less likely to flip when you need them to.
Good questions. Here's a sideboarding plan from a very good U/R player (not me!):
http://roxiecards.com/magic/sideboarding-in-legacy-with-ur-delver/
Or even playing Vesuva?
If you play it during their turn, they'll tap the nonbasic for mana, search for a basic, and then tap the basic for mana. Now they're able to cast a bigger spell that turn.
If you play it on your own turn, they can still tap it to play instants.
For Ghost Quarter to be good, you really have to know whether your opponent has basics or not. If they do, it's not worth playing (in my opinion) outside of the Boros landfall deck.