The stealing ability needs to untap the targets as well, but otherwise this is cool. The abilities are pretty small in scope and build-around so you could afford to make her a 3/3 or something, especially with her being an Orc.
Thanks for the untap catch.
You're probably right about the stats being a little too low. Updated to make her a reverse yasova statwise and untap.
My attempt at making an actually good rw commander. The idea is to use pacifism like effects to control your opponent's threatening creatures, then release them for a powerturn.
Any criticism on the second ability's wording would be helpful.
The permanent clause is on there instead of creature because Faith's Fetters on a planeswalker would be fun, but I am not entirely sold on that one.
Definitely most excited about Alesha. There are just so many ways you can take that deck: aggro, stax, tokens, human/warrior tribal, even more reanimation, control, combo. Obviously not all of those will be competitive, but I enjoy dumb decks. Definitely one of the best designed commanders in that she gives you something interesting to build around but avoids narrowing your strategy down to a few options, or worse, one option such as kaalia.
Real talk tho I love kaalia.
Worst is most definitely daghatar. He is just so boring and unnecessary. A lot of people are saying Ghave makes him look bad, but no one would use him even if Ghave never existed. He's just pure limited flavorless boring and, while I like drafting a ton, a legend only good in limited is a waste of space and design. Pretty sure this guy was changed last minute ala emmara tandris.
Right here is the problem with legislating flavor.
Okay so your idea of Thraximundar and every other legendar is that they are just some kind of magic racists. However my idea of Thrax is completely different. First of all looking at his colors, he is black, red, and blue; he seems to be ruthless, passionate, and cunning. His types are zombie and assassin. He most likely takes pride in his occupation and dispatches his targets with gusto. He's a zombie, which tends to dull the mind, so while cunning and intelligent, he is also probably single minded and cares for nothing else except the hunt. Thrax would use every tool available to him to kill his mark. No one survives in Grixis, much less becomes worthy of being a legend, without being adaptable and hell bent on their goals. This is not someone who would turn up their nose at mortify. Hell, no general with the ruthlessness and ambition of black would deny the usefulness of mortify. Thrax doesn't cast mortify because he thinks it's "impure," he doesn't cast it because he lacks the talent, understaning, mental capacity, whatever needed to use that white mana. Unmake, however, thrax would love; he would even ask for two (but of course only get one because this is commander). Sure maybe he would prefer it sacrifices, but he can see the practicality of never having to deal with the target creature again. He could cast it too, all it needs is black mana. Thrax gots this.
Hybrids are multicolored rules wise. Everyone knows this, no one is denying it, people need to stop presenting this as if it's a huge surprise. Hybrids are special though because players see them differently from the rules. Flavorwise, I wouldn't really call them multicolored. Gold cards show the synthesis of two kinds of magic while hybrid cards show the area where the difference between two colors gets a little fuzzy. Unmake, for example, represents the sentiment of wanting something to go away forever. It's a little less brutal than most black kill spells and little less just that most white removal, but it is still in the philosophy of both. Black sees something in its way and wants it to leave by any means possible while white sees a danger to society that must be taken care of utterly. Different journeys, same destination.
But the thing about flavor, is that you can use it to justify anything. Flavor backing up rules works because it helps players understand those rules and it's fun. Basing a rule on flavor doesn't work because it falls apart the moment it is scrutinized. Everyone has their own idea of what is flavorful and forcing those interpretations on others feels wrong to me.
I dislike how color identity deals with hybrid because it is counter intuitive to the rest of game and feels arbitrary. Banning off color phyrexian mana cards make sense, but banning hybrids goes against the philosophy of hybrids and how most players think of them. I also want to use hybrids in my decks and don't want to go through the trouble of trying to convince every group I come across to house rule that even if I could be successful every time. So yeah you can call me selfish or biased or whatever I don't care.
As regards non flavor arguments against hybrids:
"Some go against the color pie" So does most of planar chaos, a ton of nonblack cards in new phyrexia, a ton of old cards before the color pie was established, and so on and so forth. Wizards will continue to bend and change the color pie as time goes on in non hybrid cards. Unless you want to ban all cards that break a universally agreed upon color pie (have fun with this one), there is really no point in this objection.
"It would reduce deck diversity" I do think this could happen, but not nearly as terribly as those against hybrids think. First of all there is a large difference between the ultra competitive crowd that cares about having best in slot staple cards and everyone else. I don't even think the hybrids would do much to the competitive crowd ("oh no green will run spitting image" but green is already using tooth and nail to insta win so who cares?). I doubt multicolor decks will run all that many hybrids anyway because of their color intensive costs if you only have one of the colors. Obviously I could be completely wrong about this but it is hard for me to see how allowing hybrids would kill diversity completely.
edit: grammarthangs
Disclaimer: I spent quite a few posts in the previous pages debating over the mechanic and true nature of hybrids, and the post originally quoted was simply the flavor backing up those mechanics - something DigitalFire and I decided to move on to instead. Below is a summarized version of my stand (might be missing a few details, but the general idea is there) on the matter.
"I don't like how Color Identity deals with Hybrids". What colors were Divinity of Pride in your binder, when casting and in the game before Color Identity was established? It was still multicolored, and could not be Sunlanced nor Doom Bladed when played in both mono-colored decks. Color Identity Rules did not change that.
I understand some people don't like Color Identity, but it was not like it had fundamentally changed the colors Hybrid cards were - Hybrid cards were multicolored all along - and that is reality.
"Hybrids were designed the "either or" philosophy in mind" is as weak an argument as a ruling based on flavor - because you are all trying to change and base a ruling on a philosophy.
Philosophies, like flavor - at the end of day is not tangible - and basing rules on it doesn't work.
Mechanics is that reality. And the mechanics of Hybrid made it multicolored. Color Identity was based on that mechanic, and can be mechanically explained without any flavor as well.
Yes I know that hybrids are multicolored. I do, I really do. I do not cast divinity of pride with all black mana and then think it is all black. The debate isn't over whether hybrids are multicolored or not. The debate is over what some of us consider a problem with color identity. We believe that hybrids are meant to be played in any deck that can pay either of the mana costs. We think it makes more sense that way flavorfully and mechanically. Afterall, hybrid was designed to actually allow monocolored decks, in shadowmoor at least. I do think the color identity ruling could be changed to allow hybrids without also allowing weird stuff like dread return in off color decks (tho I'm not sure if that would even be a problem). Personally, I believe that allowing hybrids makes more sense and would benefit deckbuilding rather than making it worse. The fact that hybrids are totes multicolor fo real has nothing to do with.
How are we to decide whether Thraximundar thinks as flexibly as us and allows Boros Reckoner to join the crew? We can't (We'll spend another 13 pages worth of debate over that, actually)
Deal!
The idea was to have a card that could have been printed as mono-red. Thrax wouldn't care in that case, yeah? Can we really differentiate Unmake from Wrath/Damnation? Would Thrax say "No, I can't destroy all creatures that way because that's something white would do, and that taints my idea of warfare"? What if all hybrid cards had just been printed on 2 separate pieces of cardboard? See where the argument begins to break down?
Actually, Thraximundar would see Unmake as an execution method used by white mages, and that offends him even worse, considering he doesn't even want a method that at least shares some ideals with him. Remmeber, in the world of flavor, Wrath of God and Damnation are vastly different. Thraximundar would not go "Destroying all creatures is a white thing", he would go "Destroying all creature with a blast is a white thing I won't touch, but destroy them all by consuming them into a black hole, that's MY thing, I approve!" Unmake on the other hand, will get him up in arms "WHAT? YOU WANT ME TO UNMAKE A CREATURE THROUGH A MIRROR USING THE SAME WAY STUPID WHITE DOES? NO WAY!".
When the same effect is on different colored-cards, it means they are executed differently. If it is on the same card, it means it is executed the same way and our selfish commanders don't want to share the same execution methods to achieve the same goal. Yes, you could potentially argue that my argument would be invalid if they printed a WWWUnmake and a BBBUnmake with the same art since that implies the same methods - but Magic has retained flavor all these years by not doing such a thing, and we're doing that flavor a justice, at the cost of Hybrids. In fact, Hybrids' existence means they didn't have to do such a thing (two functionally same spells with same art in different colors) and saved EDH a lot of rules baggage ("White Unmake and Black Unmake are now banned due to the "Same Art, Different Color Rules"") by presenting itself as the sacrifice.
Right here is the problem with legislating flavor.
Okay so your idea of Thraximundar and every other legendar is that they are just some kind of magic racists. However my idea of Thrax is completely different. First of all looking at his colors, he is black, red, and blue; he seems to be ruthless, passionate, and cunning. His types are zombie and assassin. He most likely takes pride in his occupation and dispatches his targets with gusto. He's a zombie, which tends to dull the mind, so while cunning and intelligent, he is also probably single minded and cares for nothing else except the hunt. Thrax would use every tool available to him to kill his mark. No one survives in Grixis, much less becomes worthy of being a legend, without being adaptable and hell bent on their goals. This is not someone who would turn up their nose at mortify. Hell, no general with the ruthlessness and ambition of black would deny the usefulness of mortify. Thrax doesn't cast mortify because he thinks it's "impure," he doesn't cast it because he lacks the talent, understaning, mental capacity, whatever needed to use that white mana. Unmake, however, thrax would love; he would even ask for two (but of course only get one because this is commander). Sure maybe he would prefer it sacrifices, but he can see the practicality of never having to deal with the target creature again. He could cast it too, all it needs is black mana. Thrax gots this.
Hybrids are multicolored rules wise. Everyone knows this, no one is denying it, people need to stop presenting this as if it's a huge surprise. Hybrids are special though because players see them differently from the rules. Flavorwise, I wouldn't really call them multicolored. Gold cards show the synthesis of two kinds of magic while hybrid cards show the area where the difference between two colors gets a little fuzzy. Unmake, for example, represents the sentiment of wanting something to go away forever. It's a little less brutal than most black kill spells and little less just that most white removal, but it is still in the philosophy of both. Black sees something in its way and wants it to leave by any means possible while white sees a danger to society that must be taken care of utterly. Different journeys, same destination.
But the thing about flavor, is that you can use it to justify anything. Flavor backing up rules works because it helps players understand those rules and it's fun. Basing a rule on flavor doesn't work because it falls apart the moment it is scrutinized. Everyone has their own idea of what is flavorful and forcing those interpretations on others feels wrong to me.
I dislike how color identity deals with hybrid because it is counter intuitive to the rest of game and feels arbitrary. Banning off color phyrexian mana cards make sense, but banning hybrids goes against the philosophy of hybrids and how most players think of them. I also want to use hybrids in my decks and don't want to go through the trouble of trying to convince every group I come across to house rule that even if I could be successful every time. So yeah you can call me selfish or biased or whatever I don't care.
As regards non flavor arguments against hybrids:
"Some go against the color pie" So does most of planar chaos, a ton of nonblack cards in new phyrexia, a ton of old cards before the color pie was established, and so on and so forth. Wizards will continue to bend and change the color pie as time goes on in non hybrid cards. Unless you want to ban all cards that break a universally agreed upon color pie (have fun with this one), there is really no point in this objection.
"It would reduce deck diversity" I do think this could happen, but not nearly as terribly as those against hybrids think. First of all there is a large difference between the ultra competitive crowd that cares about having best in slot staple cards and everyone else. I don't even think the hybrids would do much to the competitive crowd ("oh no green will run spitting image" but green is already using tooth and nail to insta win so who cares?). I doubt multicolor decks will run all that many hybrids anyway because of their color intensive costs if you only have one of the colors. Obviously I could be completely wrong about this but it is hard for me to see how allowing hybrids would kill diversity completely.
Boros Reckoner: Is a creature with the Stuffy Doll effect which can gain First Strike. First Strike is very prevalent in both colors, and the Stuffy Doll effect has been seen in previous Hybrid cards like Spitemare. On the note of Spitemare, the effect is a) direct damage, and b) inherent protection from damage. Separate the effects listed are not inclusive but as a whole, the effect is R/W. I personally don't like that it's just on Hybrid R/W cards at the moment and I personally do see it more fitting on a multicolor, but I believe there is now precedent for what it's worth, as of both cards. I'm actually sure there is a card that redirects damage towards you or your side back to the opponent in white, but I am certain there is no damage prevention in mono-R.
For what it's worth, this has been a decidedly RW effect for a while, it just hasn't shown up on many creatures. Check out Reflect Damage, Captain's Maneuver, and the recent Deflecting Palm.
But see, the inherent problem with the ability in hybrid is that the examples you mentioned are RW as opposed to R/W or just R or just W. R/W is, again, supposed to do things that both R and W can do. For Reckoner, the First Strike is a good touch. With regards to Spitemare's ability, I'm not so sold.
~Lil Kalki
Neither spitemare nor reckoner prevent damage, so it's completely fine for red to have a punisher.
Flavor is indeed too subjective to be considered a factor. This is where I think Hybrid design failed. Why was it not created mechanically to be of either color or both colors? Remember, EDH's Deck Building Restrictions are actually mechanical (despite the flavor that's used to cover it), and not flavor driven - the properties of a card (in this case, the color identity) is a very real thing. Hybrid was designed to be flavor-fully flexible in color, but why was it not mechanically so?
Because they did hybrid in the most elegant way possible. Yes they could have made a huge rules box explaining that the spell is whichever color used to cast it and then also added a ton of memory issues. Or they could make it so that the rules interact with it as a multicolor card, but players interact with it as whatever they want when deckbuilding or casting it. Rather than design leaping through weird hoops to satisfy a wonky as hell rule like color identity, the RC should adapt to the reality of the game.
Boros Reckoner: Is a creature with the Stuffy Doll effect which can gain First Strike. First Strike is very prevalent in both colors, and the Stuffy Doll effect has been seen in previous Hybrid cards like Spitemare. On the note of Spitemare, the effect is a) direct damage, and b) inherent protection from damage. Separate the effects listed are not inclusive but as a whole, the effect is R/W. I personally don't like that it's just on Hybrid R/W cards at the moment and I personally do see it more fitting on a multicolor, but I believe there is now precedent for what it's worth, as of both cards. I'm actually sure there is a card that redirects damage towards you or your side back to the opponent in white, but I am certain there is no damage prevention in mono-R.
There is no damage prevention in either of these cards, they take damage then they deal that damage. It's a pretty good fit for both red and white. White gets damage redirection and red gets punisher effects.
Personally the thing that appeals to me about commander is the idea of the General and making a thematic deck from 100 different cards (well obv. less than 100 different cuz of basic lands). I have yet to really look at the color identity rule and think "yeah this makes a ton of sense and is one of the reasons I play." Honestly when I found out I couldn't put hybrid cards in my deck, it was a huge "huh?" moment. I mean I could put them in my other decks, why the hell was I not allowed to put them in a commander deck. I have since grown as a player and still honestly have no idea why the color identity rule still stands. People talk a lot about aesthetics and flavor, but those are really insulting rationalizations. I decide what is flavorful in MY deck. I decide what is aesthetically pleasing in MY deck. If anyone else believes hybrids or whatever are not aesthetically pleasing or flavorful or whatever, you can just not put them in YOUR deck.
Also seriously laughing at the person who thought allowing hybrids would break the game because of mikaeus and redcap.
2. "There is no difference between a gold and hybrid card" Yes from on an the battlefield rules perspective there is no difference, but players interact with hybrid cards differently from gold cards and that is very important. Maro designed shadowmoor so that both multicolor and monocolor decks would work. That is the crux of his issue with the color identity rules. It's like planning a pancake dinner for charity and someone telling you that you can't do that because pancakes are a breakfast food and can't possibly be eaten for dinner.
This is rather disingenuous. The issue isn't that there's no difference, the issue is that they're both multicolour cards. If Spitting Image is cast using only green mana, it is still susceptible to Pyroblast. If it's cast using only blue mana, it's still susceptible to Flashfreeze. The only difference between hybrid and gold cards is the options for casting.
Color identity only applies to deckbuilding and while deckbuilding, there is a large difference between gold and hybrid cards. Nightveil Specter can be countered by Gainsay in a monoblack deck, who cares? you can use those same cards with Painter's Servant, Mind Bend, and the like, it's not a big deal at all.
A couple thoughts on this debate which will recur forever and ever.
1. "I think it is wrong to have multicolor cards in my monogreen deck" Well then don't? If the color identity rules changed, you would not actually have to play multicolor cards. Shocking I know, but it's true. If other people playing those cards in monocolor decks irks you, well I have full faith that you can deal with it. People playing deadeye and tooth and nail irk me a great deal, but I get over it.
2. "There is no difference between a gold and hybrid card" Yes from on an the battlefield rules perspective there is no difference, but players interact with hybrid cards differently from gold cards and that is very important. Maro designed shadowmoor so that both multicolor and monocolor decks would work. That is the crux of his issue with the color identity rules. It's like planning a pancake dinner for charity and someone telling you that you can't do that because pancakes are a breakfast food and can't possibly be eaten for dinner.
3. "Color identity is a flavor rule" I hate this argument so much. Legislating flavor is dumb because every single person has their own idea of what is flavorful. I can put elesh norn in a gerard deck and it would be totally fine despite being a bigger flavor contradiction than any hybrid card could be. I personally like to make my decks thematic, but that is my choice and I wouldn't tell someone else to do the same. Hell, the flavor of hybrid cards is that they are spells mages of either color can cast because they represent the area where both of those magics overlap.
4. "The color pie tho" Four words: planar chaos new phyrexia. New Phyrexia gave loss of life to green, like holy *****. Yet no one cares for some strange reason. I can respect this argument in regards to phyrexian mana because of their power level. However the game will continue to change. There will be new phyrexias in the future, colors will continue to gain and lose mechanics due to the whims of wizards. Worrying about the color pie is an R&D issue, not a player issue. Regarding colorless hybrids, those are pretty much artifact costed and I doubt would see play in any off color deck.
5. Rules are the means by which an enjoyable game is created. They are not sacred, they are not above questioning and experimenting with, and obtuse rules should be either reworded or changed completely. I would really like to see some hardcore testing done without the color identity rules. It would be interesting to see the effect of hybrids, multicolor reanimator, phyrexian mana, etc. on a meta. I don't think allowing only hybrids would warp the format, but all the others might
Not a great player at all, but I have a sedris deck I love. I think you need more of a focus on creatures and less reanimation from sources other than your commander. The redundancy is good in case your commander gets tucked, but I think you have a bit much. One thing I really like in my deck is Flayer of The Hatebound. This gives your deck a little more reach and allows some explosive turns with unearth. That is just my 2 cents.
I have found Sedris, The Traitor King to be pretty deceptively powerful. It might just be my meta and the fact that I don't use huge self mill, but most people don't pay attention to graveyards. Combined with the fact that your board looks empty on every other player's turn, you can pull some rather surprising plays off and and win out of nowhere.
Definitely Tooth and Nail. Every single time it's have an answer or lose to one of the dumb two card win combos which everyone is already tired of. So boring, so powerful, so frustrating.
I believe many people are open to rules changes. But we need to see these rules first. This isn't the first thread that discusses hybrids. It won't be the last. The RC has spent time in the past trying to create rules that work to allow them in the fashion you want.
We really haven't. We like the hybrids not being playable. The flavor of Commander is that your general won't put up with those inferior colors of mana and wants nothing to do with them. It's aesthetically displeasing to see those off-color symbols in your deck.
We've poked at rules for stuff like keeping off-color fetches out, but that's not worth the mess.
Personally I highly disagree with legislating flavor because it leads to really weird stuff like this. Melira looks at ram gang and goes "eww red"? Okay, but Ib Halfheart would look at ram gang and think "those are some sweet goblins, gotta have them in my army, AND OH LOOK I CAN CAST THEM FOR RED." Likewise, apparently Gerrard can't stand the green in Rhys the Redeemed, but totally thinks Elesh Norn is a fine fellow?
And aesthetically pleasing? Please, just let players decide what is aesthetically pleasing to them.
Edit: So the tone of this post seems a little too aggressive to me upon rereading it. I don't mean any disrespect to the RC. I really disagree with the hybrid ruling and the arguments supporting it, but I do love the work they've done supporting the format as it is my favorite way to play magic. I still stand behind the post, just want yall to realize that it's irritation born out of love of the format and what decks I could make.
Regarding this, can we all be a little less of an ******** to the people who make the game we enjoy? It's totally fine to say "I think this decision Maro/development/Wizards/RC made is terrible and I don't like it," but none of them are idiots and I am pretty sure that they all know more about making a good game than me or most other posters. In the end, no one is perfect, everyone has their own view, and they are all trying to make a good game.
But that hybrid flavor explanation still doesn't make sense. Boggart Ram Gang is a red spell, it uses only red mana and my goblin commander knows how to do that. It is also a green spell, but that has no bearing on the ability to cast it with just red mana. It is a red spell and a green spell and a red green spell. Feral animist on the other hand is just a red green spell, huge difference. Yes some hybrid cards would have weird flavor and mechanics for their colors, but no one is calling for the ban of planar chaos cards except in colors that contain those mechanics, nor would anyone try to make the case that phyrexian watermarked cards simply CAN"T be in anyone's jor kadeen deck. Making rules enforcing flavor just doesn't work because every single person has a different idea of what is flavorful or not.
As to the restrictions breed creativity argument, I don't really get it. Yes some restrictions do, but also giving yourself more options can also breed creativity, so the whole thing is a wash really. Restrictions have to make sense and the whole "you can play this card with only red mana in regular magic, but in EDH you can't because then someone else could play it with only green mana" makes very little sense. Also there is already a ton of degeneracy in EDH and allowing hybrid cards to be used as they were actually designed by wizards to be used will not turn people away from the easy win two card combos they already have.
Thanks for the untap catch.
You're probably right about the stats being a little too low. Updated to make her a reverse yasova statwise and untap.
Any criticism on the second ability's wording would be helpful.
The permanent clause is on there instead of creature because Faith's Fetters on a planeswalker would be fun, but I am not entirely sold on that one.
Real talk tho I love kaalia.
Worst is most definitely daghatar. He is just so boring and unnecessary. A lot of people are saying Ghave makes him look bad, but no one would use him even if Ghave never existed. He's just pure limited flavorless boring and, while I like drafting a ton, a legend only good in limited is a waste of space and design. Pretty sure this guy was changed last minute ala emmara tandris.
Yes I know that hybrids are multicolored. I do, I really do. I do not cast divinity of pride with all black mana and then think it is all black. The debate isn't over whether hybrids are multicolored or not. The debate is over what some of us consider a problem with color identity. We believe that hybrids are meant to be played in any deck that can pay either of the mana costs. We think it makes more sense that way flavorfully and mechanically. Afterall, hybrid was designed to actually allow monocolored decks, in shadowmoor at least. I do think the color identity ruling could be changed to allow hybrids without also allowing weird stuff like dread return in off color decks (tho I'm not sure if that would even be a problem). Personally, I believe that allowing hybrids makes more sense and would benefit deckbuilding rather than making it worse. The fact that hybrids are totes multicolor fo real has nothing to do with.
Right here is the problem with legislating flavor.
Okay so your idea of Thraximundar and every other legendar is that they are just some kind of magic racists. However my idea of Thrax is completely different. First of all looking at his colors, he is black, red, and blue; he seems to be ruthless, passionate, and cunning. His types are zombie and assassin. He most likely takes pride in his occupation and dispatches his targets with gusto. He's a zombie, which tends to dull the mind, so while cunning and intelligent, he is also probably single minded and cares for nothing else except the hunt. Thrax would use every tool available to him to kill his mark. No one survives in Grixis, much less becomes worthy of being a legend, without being adaptable and hell bent on their goals. This is not someone who would turn up their nose at mortify. Hell, no general with the ruthlessness and ambition of black would deny the usefulness of mortify. Thrax doesn't cast mortify because he thinks it's "impure," he doesn't cast it because he lacks the talent, understaning, mental capacity, whatever needed to use that white mana. Unmake, however, thrax would love; he would even ask for two (but of course only get one because this is commander). Sure maybe he would prefer it sacrifices, but he can see the practicality of never having to deal with the target creature again. He could cast it too, all it needs is black mana. Thrax gots this.
Hybrids are multicolored rules wise. Everyone knows this, no one is denying it, people need to stop presenting this as if it's a huge surprise. Hybrids are special though because players see them differently from the rules. Flavorwise, I wouldn't really call them multicolored. Gold cards show the synthesis of two kinds of magic while hybrid cards show the area where the difference between two colors gets a little fuzzy. Unmake, for example, represents the sentiment of wanting something to go away forever. It's a little less brutal than most black kill spells and little less just that most white removal, but it is still in the philosophy of both. Black sees something in its way and wants it to leave by any means possible while white sees a danger to society that must be taken care of utterly. Different journeys, same destination.
But the thing about flavor, is that you can use it to justify anything. Flavor backing up rules works because it helps players understand those rules and it's fun. Basing a rule on flavor doesn't work because it falls apart the moment it is scrutinized. Everyone has their own idea of what is flavorful and forcing those interpretations on others feels wrong to me.
I dislike how color identity deals with hybrid because it is counter intuitive to the rest of game and feels arbitrary. Banning off color phyrexian mana cards make sense, but banning hybrids goes against the philosophy of hybrids and how most players think of them. I also want to use hybrids in my decks and don't want to go through the trouble of trying to convince every group I come across to house rule that even if I could be successful every time. So yeah you can call me selfish or biased or whatever I don't care.
As regards non flavor arguments against hybrids:
"Some go against the color pie" So does most of planar chaos, a ton of nonblack cards in new phyrexia, a ton of old cards before the color pie was established, and so on and so forth. Wizards will continue to bend and change the color pie as time goes on in non hybrid cards. Unless you want to ban all cards that break a universally agreed upon color pie (have fun with this one), there is really no point in this objection.
"It would reduce deck diversity" I do think this could happen, but not nearly as terribly as those against hybrids think. First of all there is a large difference between the ultra competitive crowd that cares about having best in slot staple cards and everyone else. I don't even think the hybrids would do much to the competitive crowd ("oh no green will run spitting image" but green is already using tooth and nail to insta win so who cares?). I doubt multicolor decks will run all that many hybrids anyway because of their color intensive costs if you only have one of the colors. Obviously I could be completely wrong about this but it is hard for me to see how allowing hybrids would kill diversity completely.
edit: grammarthangs
Neither spitemare nor reckoner prevent damage, so it's completely fine for red to have a punisher.
Because they did hybrid in the most elegant way possible. Yes they could have made a huge rules box explaining that the spell is whichever color used to cast it and then also added a ton of memory issues. Or they could make it so that the rules interact with it as a multicolor card, but players interact with it as whatever they want when deckbuilding or casting it. Rather than design leaping through weird hoops to satisfy a wonky as hell rule like color identity, the RC should adapt to the reality of the game.
There is no damage prevention in either of these cards, they take damage then they deal that damage. It's a pretty good fit for both red and white. White gets damage redirection and red gets punisher effects.
Also seriously laughing at the person who thought allowing hybrids would break the game because of mikaeus and redcap.
Color identity only applies to deckbuilding and while deckbuilding, there is a large difference between gold and hybrid cards. Nightveil Specter can be countered by Gainsay in a monoblack deck, who cares? you can use those same cards with Painter's Servant, Mind Bend, and the like, it's not a big deal at all.
1. "I think it is wrong to have multicolor cards in my monogreen deck" Well then don't? If the color identity rules changed, you would not actually have to play multicolor cards. Shocking I know, but it's true. If other people playing those cards in monocolor decks irks you, well I have full faith that you can deal with it. People playing deadeye and tooth and nail irk me a great deal, but I get over it.
2. "There is no difference between a gold and hybrid card" Yes from on an the battlefield rules perspective there is no difference, but players interact with hybrid cards differently from gold cards and that is very important. Maro designed shadowmoor so that both multicolor and monocolor decks would work. That is the crux of his issue with the color identity rules. It's like planning a pancake dinner for charity and someone telling you that you can't do that because pancakes are a breakfast food and can't possibly be eaten for dinner.
3. "Color identity is a flavor rule" I hate this argument so much. Legislating flavor is dumb because every single person has their own idea of what is flavorful. I can put elesh norn in a gerard deck and it would be totally fine despite being a bigger flavor contradiction than any hybrid card could be. I personally like to make my decks thematic, but that is my choice and I wouldn't tell someone else to do the same. Hell, the flavor of hybrid cards is that they are spells mages of either color can cast because they represent the area where both of those magics overlap.
4. "The color pie tho" Four words: planar chaos new phyrexia. New Phyrexia gave loss of life to green, like holy *****. Yet no one cares for some strange reason. I can respect this argument in regards to phyrexian mana because of their power level. However the game will continue to change. There will be new phyrexias in the future, colors will continue to gain and lose mechanics due to the whims of wizards. Worrying about the color pie is an R&D issue, not a player issue. Regarding colorless hybrids, those are pretty much artifact costed and I doubt would see play in any off color deck.
5. Rules are the means by which an enjoyable game is created. They are not sacred, they are not above questioning and experimenting with, and obtuse rules should be either reworded or changed completely. I would really like to see some hardcore testing done without the color identity rules. It would be interesting to see the effect of hybrids, multicolor reanimator, phyrexian mana, etc. on a meta. I don't think allowing only hybrids would warp the format, but all the others might
Personally I highly disagree with legislating flavor because it leads to really weird stuff like this. Melira looks at ram gang and goes "eww red"? Okay, but Ib Halfheart would look at ram gang and think "those are some sweet goblins, gotta have them in my army, AND OH LOOK I CAN CAST THEM FOR RED." Likewise, apparently Gerrard can't stand the green in Rhys the Redeemed, but totally thinks Elesh Norn is a fine fellow?
And aesthetically pleasing? Please, just let players decide what is aesthetically pleasing to them.
Edit: So the tone of this post seems a little too aggressive to me upon rereading it. I don't mean any disrespect to the RC. I really disagree with the hybrid ruling and the arguments supporting it, but I do love the work they've done supporting the format as it is my favorite way to play magic. I still stand behind the post, just want yall to realize that it's irritation born out of love of the format and what decks I could make.
Regarding this, can we all be a little less of an ******** to the people who make the game we enjoy? It's totally fine to say "I think this decision Maro/development/Wizards/RC made is terrible and I don't like it," but none of them are idiots and I am pretty sure that they all know more about making a good game than me or most other posters. In the end, no one is perfect, everyone has their own view, and they are all trying to make a good game.
As to the restrictions breed creativity argument, I don't really get it. Yes some restrictions do, but also giving yourself more options can also breed creativity, so the whole thing is a wash really. Restrictions have to make sense and the whole "you can play this card with only red mana in regular magic, but in EDH you can't because then someone else could play it with only green mana" makes very little sense. Also there is already a ton of degeneracy in EDH and allowing hybrid cards to be used as they were actually designed by wizards to be used will not turn people away from the easy win two card combos they already have.