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  • posted a message on X-Men: Days of the Future's Past.
    I'm amazed at the high praise this film is getting.

    First off, I didn't hate it, but I'm going to tear it down a bit.

    Nothing happens in this movie at all. The plot is nearly non-existent. Some characters are completely wasted, some aren't even needed. Everyone's favorite scene involves a mutant that didn't even need to be in the film. What was the point of the Vietnam scene? Why didn't Wolverine just convince Prof X to stop taking his heroin long enough to get his powers back and find Mystique the easy way instead of breaking the world's most dangerous mutant out of prison? That ends up being how things get done anyway!!! What is Magneto doing in the end of the film? Did he really need to drop the stadium around the white house (I'll answer that one; no, he didn't)? What was he going to do, stop one war to start another? Why did he flip flop so abruptly? Why was Mystique pretending to be Striker in the end? Why does Mystique do anything at all in this movie? Her motivation is completely unexplained and even when they tell her that it will make things worse she tries to keep going with it. Where is her loyalty at the end of the film? And the biggest one, how does this lead into the next movie if it's supposed to take place in the 1980s?!?!?!

    This entire film was an excuse to milk the franchise by resetting the timeline. They could have done that in 20 minutes and made the film about something interesting.
    Posted in: Movies
  • posted a message on Elephant in the room; What's it going to cost to play Vintage online?
    Having a thriving secondary market and card scarcity is actually good for the game as it garners additional interest in the game. I'm saying it's good for the players, or that it's good for the actual gameplay. It is however, good for the overall health and longevity of the game. If all cards were just in print for forever, even online only, your old cards would ALWAYS be competing with your new cards, and people would get bored by having less areas of interaction with the game and its pieces.


    I don't believe this at all and never have. We'll never know for sure because its never been done, but to me the fun is in deck building and game play. If everyone had easier access to all cards it would kill the secondary market, yes, but we'd have more creativity in deck building, IMO. We'd also have more interest in vintage style formats. The only anyone in my local area can play vintage is by playing in tournaments that allow proxies.


    Sorry it's not a matter of we'll never know for sure because we do know for certain. CCGs without a thriving secondary market have universally failed. You might say they lacked depth of gameplay, or any number of other factors. But every successful CCG also has a thriving secondary market. It could be correlation and not causation, but personally I think it's both.

    Let's jump in the time machine and look at some superficial aspects of some old CCGs. Jihad (Vampire: The eternal Struggle) had at one time solid gameplay, and emerging fanbase, and an emerging secondary market. Then they changed the card backs,de-valued the entire collection and it was a dead game within a year (I played in SEVERAL local tournaments for this game, it had rising popularity). That awesome/terrible Star Trek CCG is up next, if I recall they tried making some of the most popular characters from Star Trek commons rather than rares. This had an interesting effect of the game having rares that were both unplayable garbage, and undesirable characters. For a brief period in time the most expensive cards in the set were actually Star Trek Villains, because they didn't get the same treatment. This game was a flash in the pan for a secondary market, I think you could acquire the entire set for a box of Fallen Empires about 8 months after it left print.

    Long term players do not open product, they do not want to open product. They don't want to have 40 copies of every common. If there isn't a thriving secondary market games do not make it. I think WarCraft TCG and L5R prove it rather well in fact. As soon as confidence was lost in the Secondary Market, there stopped being profit for stores to run tournaments, there stopped being L5R and Warcraft TCG as a healthy game.


    Now you might validly point out that PLENTY of online card games do quite well without a secondary market, and I would say they do ok. But I played several, Altiel being one I played for several years, and instead of a secondary market you buy boosters. I mean I've seen videos of guys crack 1000 $3 boosters to get 1 5-star card. And there was nothing to do with the other 2999 cards because he already had ALL of them.

    I do not want to play that game. I don't play those games anymore because... yuck. I play Magic, which is mildly expensive, but I've been doing it for 20 years now and I know the value is there on every penny I put in.

    Also, 1 more example. The number 1 universally requested feature I see on EVERY single game without a Secondary Market.

    When are you going to add a trade system? What do we do with all these extra cards?


    Extra cards? Obviously you've not seen my online collection.

    No card game can even begin to compare to Magic because none of them has made it other than Pokemon but Pokemon is a very special case. It has a built in audience and a billion cartoons to sell its product. Those other games only failed because they weren't as good.

    Printing Vintage Masters every year might be a bit extreme. I'd rather see Wizards get rid of the Mythic rarity and get rid of the no reprint list. That would be enough for me.
    Posted in: Other Formats
  • posted a message on Elephant in the room; What's it going to cost to play Vintage online?
    Having a thriving secondary market and card scarcity is actually good for the game as it garners additional interest in the game. I'm saying it's good for the players, or that it's good for the actual gameplay. It is however, good for the overall health and longevity of the game. If all cards were just in print for forever, even online only, your old cards would ALWAYS be competing with your new cards, and people would get bored by having less areas of interaction with the game and its pieces.


    I don't believe this at all and never have. We'll never know for sure because its never been done, but to me the fun is in deck building and game play. If everyone had easier access to all cards it would kill the secondary market, yes, but we'd have more creativity in deck building, IMO. We'd also have more interest in vintage style formats. The only anyone in my local area can play vintage is by playing in tournaments that allow proxies.
    Posted in: Other Formats
  • posted a message on Elephant in the room; What's it going to cost to play Vintage online?
    Quote from Roger »
    Quote from Meschiya »
    Quote from Roger »

    The cost will be a big factor as well, I don't really think that the format needs to be as expensive to enter as people seem to think it should be. Just because paper vintage is stupidly expensive, doesn't mean online has to be as well. There should be some cost associated with it and some amount of commitment but not stupid levels. MTG is a game after all, and whats the point of having a format if its too expensive for most people to actually play with any degree of success?


    Yeah the $7 booster is clearly financially motivated, all claims of needing to maintain Vintage specialness notwithstanding. They probably figure they can get away with it simply because online Vintage will be an order of magnitude cheaper than paper Vintage. You can get some original dual lands at ludicrously cheap prices - for instance, Plateau is about 7 tickets online. Force of Will is only in the mid-30's.

    Thus, for someone wanting to get into it, online will be far and away the easiest and cheapest way to do so, and will have the most consistent tournament support. But I have no idea how popular the limited format will be, since I imagine some people will shy away from dropping $25 just to lose one match and maybe open no money cards.


    It doesn't matter if online vintage only costs say $1400 for a deck instead of whatever ungodly amount a paper vintage deck costs, in my opinion that is still *far* too much. It's just greed, pure and simple. WOTC thinks they can make a massive amount of money of this set, so they are going to milk it for as much as they can. The thing is, as far as I can tell, the entire future of online Vintage (and the opportunity to grow online legacy) heavily depend on the success of this set. If the limited format is not as amazing as they think it will be, how many $25 drafts will people really be willing to plow through in the hopes of opening money rares?

    Vintage (and legacy) are unique experiences for MTG that not many players get to experience (outside of proxy allowed tournaments) compared to the number that would probably like to that simply cannot afford it. Its expensive in paper so it should be expensive online, seems to be the main argument being thrown around when cost is brought up, but is that really true? Would anyone consider it a good thing that there is a massive barrier to entry for people wanting to just play the game? Would it have been such a bad thing if online vintage/legacy was say $400-500 to put together a competitive deck and push extra cost into pimping out said deck (foils, alternate arts etc)

    If VM isn't a massive success, the vintage format will be dead before it even starts. If there are not enough P9 in circulation, there is no way the format can really grow, and it only gets worse once it goes off sale and someone wants to get in later. Sure, legacy and vintage events will pay out VM packs, but I would be extremely surprised if the number of packs was not cut in half to 'account for the increased cost of the VM boosters'. In any case, I'm not sure that will really help *all* that much. Those with a viable vintage deck get to get more vintage cards and people are forced to literally gamble (ripping $7+ packs hoping for a money card) in order to increase supply with these prize packs.

    I think the last thing to consider too is that many paper vintage events aren't paying out boosters as their only prizes, they typically have special prizes of some kind.

    In short, I want to see these formats thrive online, but I am concerned that WOTCs greed is going to kill it before it has a chance, *especially* considering the timing of the upcoming forced change to the new client. They should be trying to build faith with their players, not be trying to gouge them for as much money as possible.


    I guess I just have a totally different perspective on this set release. This doesn't seem like greed at all. It feels like Wizards catering exclusively to the people with bottomless pockets for Magic and secondary dealers. If it was a money grab they'd have cost the packs normal price and not had a limited run. If this set was on sale forever and drafted forever, they'd make money off of it for all time. Players would never, ever stop buying it and playing. That would be better for their bottom line.

    I know they don't make money in the secondary market and that they have to keep that in mind for things like this, but there's no real reason to put a cap on the supply of this set from their end. The cards are not redeemable so they don't have to worry about that. Again, they have no stock in the secondary market but they are intentionally driving price up. It doesn't benefit them to do this.

    All said, I'm a nut bag when it comes to this game so my opinion is for crap. For example, if I was in charge at Wizards Vintage Masters would be a paper set as well and I'd print it every year. To hell with the secondary dealers. This game, IMO, is more fun when everyone can access the cards. I prefer deckbuilding and experimenting over collecting the cards.
    Posted in: Other Formats
  • posted a message on Elephant in the room; What's it going to cost to play Vintage online?
    Quote from pizzap »
    This set has had me thinking a lot about the artificial supply and demand that Wizards creates for this game. It sometimes just makes me sick to my stomach...

    MTG has always been about artificial supply and demand... MTGO is not going to be any different.


    Yes. I know. Grin

    But it hadn't been on my mind until the announcement of this set because I've been playing primarily online for the last 2 years.
    Posted in: Other Formats
  • posted a message on Elephant in the room; What's it going to cost to play Vintage online?
    Does anyone have a list of cards in this set that have not previously been released online?

    I expect the limited format for this to run at full tilt pretty much the entire time the cards are available. I also expect people to play it when they release limited events again for the set down the road (you know they will, they do it with all "limited time only" sets). I expect them to be popular despite the cost for the obvious reasons that there are some money cards in there and the opportunity to own power nine cards, even fake ones, is pretty appealing to a lot of players.

    This set has had me thinking a lot about the artificial supply and demand that Wizards creates for this game. It sometimes just makes me sick to my stomach...
    Posted in: Other Formats
  • posted a message on Elephant in the room; What's it going to cost to play Vintage online?
    Um, stupid question: who would run Onslaught fetch lands when Zendikar lands come in at half the price?

    Doctor that list to fit with the different supply/demand of online and you're going to knock some dollars off.

    Also, If players play the hell out of Vintage Masters we may be able to flood the market with some of these cards. I don't expect power nine cards to be cheap but, cards like FoW that are reprinted in the set will put more into the secondary market (plus, yeah, you're way off on the cost of that particular card!) and I can see some of those cards dipping a bit.
    Posted in: Other Formats
  • posted a message on Legendary Pictures Godzilla
    Quote from magickware99 »
    Quote from Jay13x »

    And I think your thoughts on Ford are interesting.


    It just doesn't make sense for the film to drop a bunch of hints about how messed up Ford is at the start of the film, only to just let it completely poof later on.

    Actually, it can make perfect sense; a plot-hole. But I would like to believe that it isn't a plot-hole and instead is just too damned subtle for people to pick up on.


    There also may be a deleted scene or two or even some that weren't ever shot that explain more back story on his character. I think you're on to something, I just wish the film fleshed it out better.

    I like to look at the film as a giant monster procedural. There are characters in the film, like David Strathairn who exist only to forward the military action. He's a terrific actor playing a character that literally never says anything about himself as a person, and I actually liked that! He's like the detective character in a procedural show whose sole character trait is doing his job. I think the film is actually better than a lot of people give credit because it forgoes cheesy, unnecessary character scenes in favor of a disaster movie feel. I really liked it.
    Posted in: Movies
  • posted a message on Retroactive enjoyment is in your head
    Quote from Feathas »
    You're sort of making my point for me. The audience shouldn't ever have to ignore anything. A sequels plot is informed by the previous film, not its quality.
    And quality is totally divorced from plot now?

    also other technically non-plot stuff can be affected but it's basically no different so whatever


    Some films are all plot. Some aren't. Some are bad. Some are good. Quality doesn't have to be divorced from plot, but it can be. Especially when it comes to prequels. You don't have to be the slightest bit concerned that the Matrix sequels weren't good because the first one was great on its own.

    Quote from Drawmeomg »
    I mean, basically the idea that there is something wrong with you if a bad sequel/prequel turns you off to the originals is bonkers. That's just not how (most) human brains work.


    Proof that my highly evolved mind is superior to (most) humans. Grin
    Posted in: Movies
  • posted a message on Retroactive enjoyment is in your head
    Quote from Feathas »
    That's probably because indy 4 doesn't explain, setup, or inform anything that happens in the other movies. So it's easier to separate.

    You've already said that you've, in every case of this you've encountered so far, been able to separate the impact of sequels from your revisit of the earlier films. That's great, but I think it's a bit ridiculous to suggest that people who can't always are flawed in some way and should try harder to do so. If only for the fact that a good film shouldn't have to rely on the audience trying hard to ignore directly related things to effect them.


    You're sort of making my point for me. The audience shouldn't ever have to ignore anything. A sequels plot is informed by the previous film, not its quality. Films and TV shows and books and comics can be enjoyed in a vacuum. You are right about one thing, I am an a-hole who thinks it's bonkers that people can't separate elements of fiction. I'll concede that point.
    Posted in: Movies
  • posted a message on Retroactive enjoyment is in your head
    Quote from Abstractual »
    Does Indiana Jones count in this discussion? Because for me personally, dismissing Kingdom of the Crystal Skull entirely comes at no cost to my enjoyment and admiration of Raiders of the Lost Ark.


    Perfect example, and strangely ignored by a lot of the people who feel the opposite of me. No one I've ever met will say Indy 4 took away their enjoyment of the original(s) yet I've encountered plenty of people who say the Matrix sequels make the first one not look as good. Weird.

    I don't hate Indy 4 as much as many people do, but I don't watch it the same way I watch the originals. I watch it as sort of a campy b-movie. Maybe that's what they wanted us to do...
    Posted in: Movies
  • posted a message on Retroactive enjoyment is in your head
    Quote from rockshard
    Actually I disagree with OP, and in fact I've started thinking about this a lot recently.

    My reasoning is based on practical expectations of what the audience will do. If you watch Empire Strikes Back, you will probably watch Return of the Jedi afterwards, but you would probably watch A New Hope before watching either. And if you liked the Star Wars original trilogy, there is a distinct likelyhood you will go on to see the prequel trilogy as well. Therefore in both cases the films must be judged as a whole series, rather than each individual trilogy in a vacuum, or each individual film in a vacuum which would make even less sense, but only serves to illustrate my point.

    Try to also look at it in reverse. If something *****ty gets a sequel, is your opinion not affected by how bad the original is? Best case scenario, someone who didn't see the original goes to see the sequel, likes it, and ends up watching the original purely as a result.


    See, I disagree with this entirely. You can watch and enjoy individual films in a vacuum. You can watch just The Matrix and enjoy it for what it is and ignore the sequels knowing that they stink. Also, despite not liking any of them, I continue to watch the Resident Evil films because the first couple of video games were so awesome when I originally played them. The films are all terrible, but I've watched every one of them (on DVD, come on, I'm not THAT big of a masochist). If they ever make one that isn't awful, I'll admit that it's the good one in the bunch. I'm a huge fan of the original Friday the 13th films, except the 5th one is terrible and it follows the loose continuity of those films and includes a main non-Jason role from 4 and 6 so it's canon, as far as those films go. I don't have to like it or even watch it to enjoy the others in the series, even the ones that involve the story's continuity.

    Quote from rockshard
    The lesson here, I think, is that it helps to avoid making bad things and to avoid all association with bad things wherever possible.


    If only we could...

    Quote from rockshard
    Canon is a different issue, however. Something being made canon or not canon shouldn't really affect your enjoyment of something because canon-ness is arbitrary to begin with. No fictional works is real, canon-ness is just a label, a mind trick, and being that it's a mind trick, you can just as easily decide by yourself what is canon.


    Thank you, that's what started this debate in my head. Canon is as much in the eyes of the fans as it is the creators.

    Posted in: Movies
  • posted a message on Retroactive enjoyment is in your head
    Quote from Fluffy_Bunny
    Quote from Drawmeomg
    @Drawmeomg Do you now watch Episode V and think "this is now less enjoyable because George Lucas lost his mind?" I doubt it. I still watch the original trilogy with the same enjoyment I got when I was 7 (maybe more enjoyment, in fact) even though I really, really hate Episode I.


    Why yes, I do. Because a lot of my enjoyment from the original trilogy came from deeply investing myself into the expansive world they depict (and not just the action on screen), and that level of immersion is far more difficult / outright impossible in the post-Ep 1 world.


    This is the insanity I was talking about. I can watch it and pretend the prequels don't exist. I can divorce myself from the bad aspects of the new films and enjoy the originals just fine. Everyone should be able to do this, but you're making a conscience decision not to.


    The problem is you can't just "forget" things.... no matter what when I see the force being used I now know that midichlorians exist... The force isn't just some kind of magic anymore... it's explained by micro-organisms. When I see Han Solo I am reminded that Lucas is a douche and decided to not have him shoot first...

    New material can't take away the original enjoyment, but it can ruin future enjoyment.


    I don't think it can. I can watch the original trilogy, stupid edits included, and still enjoy them. I prefer the unaltered originals, but I can still watch and enjoy the crap versions because of what those films mean to me.

    Valanarch acts like he will never enjoy the new films because they wrecked the EU (which, IMO, was never canon anyway) which is beyond absurd because the two universes can co-exist. Hell, the films themselves can contradict each other and it doesn't matter because it's a fictional world that's limited only by our imaginations.

    The end of Terminator 2 completely contradicts everything that happened in the course of the two films and destroys any sense of internal logic and I still love those films. There's plenty of gaping plot holes that don't prevent me from enjoying a film or TV show. There's Lost, a show that the entire premise hangs on the hope that the audience will forgive the fact that they drop dozens of plot threads which many people were more than happy to do. I wasn't one of them, I think Lost sucks ass.

    Bottom line, we don't have to be tied down by the rules we've set up in our heads. Instead of trying to tie these things permanently together we can love them individually or even as little 3-film chunks. Or one film chunks, if that's what we choose. I decide to be optimistic in my partaking of entertainment. I read mediocre books (The Maze Runner series comes to mind) if they have an interesting premise but suck in the execution. I will read a cliche comic if I like the artwork. I will watch a slow moving, plotless film if it has amazing cinematography. And I can enjoy The Matrix without the sequels.
    Posted in: Movies
  • posted a message on Does anyone know any good adolescence films?
    Stand By Me is one of my favorites.
    Posted in: Movies
  • posted a message on Retroactive enjoyment is in your head
    Quote from Drawmeomg
    You're simply not as invested. That's not a bad thing, but there's also nothing wrong with being deeply invested.

    However, if it wasn't affecting your enjoyment, you wouldn't have to pretend it didn't exist, would you? In order to continue to enjoy it as much as before, you literally are pretending that something that really happened didn't happen.

    Who is the insane one, again?


    The sane one, IMO, is the one who finds enjoyment instead of aggravation.
    Posted in: Movies
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