I have been struggling a bit against eldrazi lately, mostly because of thought-knot seer.
Even if you board in Paths, they will often take them out of your hand if you can't respond to the trigger, and they don't die to searing blaze.
The bant version also plays Worship, which they can protect with thought-knot by taking destructive revelery before playing it.
Anyone have any specific tips for the matchup? Any spicy sideboard cards?
I've been out of the loop for a while, but when I played earlier this year I was crushing with GW taxes.
Is that variant dead now with all the new cards?
If I were to drop the revokers, I would have to get a pithing needle in the sideboard I think to deal with planeswalkers. That's one thing revokers do that Pridemage can't. Wasn't relevant this particular tournament though
@AntiquatedNotion You're right, in hindsight I doubt he was packing FoW.
@esplanades Only got sylvan library one game against miracles, but didn't matter much there. It has been very good for me before though, especially against miracles, lands and shardless BUG. I am pondering putting one more in the main, if only to draw it more often to test it more, but having a hard time cutting anything.
Round 1: 2-1 vs Infect
My opponent discovered a decklist error just before the first match started which he had to correct, and got a game loss for tardiness. I don’t like the Infect matchup too much, so I was happy to start off 1-0.
second game he had the turn 2 kill on the play, nothing to do about that. Game 3 I StP his first threat, and he doesn’t find another infect guy before I drop a Jitte and he concedes.
I ended up siding in Carpet of flowers, which he didn’t agree I should do, because he wants to fetch basics against me anyway. It only gave me 1 extra mana to work with, but I think it made quite a difference in this case. Input on this is welcome.
Round 2: 2-1 vs Lands
First game I play mother of runes and thalia, which slowed him down considerably. He didn’t manage to assemble anything before I found SfM + Batterskull and won a few turns later.
Game 2 he got me in a wasteland lock, and it took too long before I found my second fetch to get Plains. I now had 2 mana turn 6, and he crop rotated for a tabernacle, and played a rishadan port. I conceded. Game 3 was very grindy. He made a Marit Lage token in my end step, and I vialed in a flickerwisp to remove it. At this point he is at very low health, but I know he can just Loam both his lands back and play both. Luckily I topdecked Fiend Hunter which dealt with the second token, and I swung for the win.
Turns out Fiend Hunter has quite a few uses beside eldrazi, as I also sided it in against Infect for the extra removal. Not sure I want it over Mirran Crusader in main yet though, depends on how much punishing fire is in the meta.
Round 3: 2-0 vs Miracles
Game 1 I kept a hand with 2 Pridemages. He killed the first one, but when I dropped the second + aether vial, he thought for a while, and cast Predict naming Counterbalance and put it into his yard. Won that game pretty quickly after that. Game 2 I mulliganed to 6, had a choke in hand, and scryed a choke to the top. He forced the first one, but couldn’t counter the second. I proceeded to keep him off white mana with Port, and Thalia made it impossible for him to do anything.
Choke is mvp against miracles, especially paired with other taxing, feels impossible to lose.
Round 4: 2-0 vs Mentor Miracles
First game, he killed my first threat, and pulled the trigger on Mentor turn 3. I guess he had a good reason to (a lot of cantrips in hand), but I think it was a little early. I ended up swording it, and found a SoFaI to protect against his cliques and snapcasters, which ended the game quickly.
Game 2 he FoWed my vial, and I slammed choke turn 3, and managed to sneak it past his counterbalance. I was a bit worried, since he plays mentors and cliques, but I just had to go for it. Ended up winning me the game outright, as he didn’t find his Wear//Tear.
Choke is incredibly good against miracles. I’m always a bit bummed when I get SfM and can’t search for my SoWaP in game 1, but I’m too weary of eldrazi atm to keep batterskull in SB.
Round 5: ID vs Shardless BUG
We were hungry.
Top 8 Quarterfinals: 2-0 vs Storm
I was on the play, and slammed Thalia turn 2, he didn’t have the FoW. That was Game 1.
Game 2 I put vial in to play, and aggressively wastelanded and ported his lands, and got Thalia into play off the vial. Turn 5 or 6 I dropped choke, and he was stuck with 1 swamp I ported each upkeep until he lost.
Got to keep 2 openers with Thalia in them, which is nice. Don’t have Canonist in the board right now, as there is not much storm in my local meta. I’m not sure Choke is correct against fast combo, but if you manage to draw the game out to the point that you can cast it, it is very good.
Top 8 Semifinals: 0-2 vs Miracles
This was the same guy I played in round 3. The first game ended when I attacked with a thalia and a revoker, and he miracles Entreat for 3 angels to wipe my board.
Game 2 was super grindy, and I can’t remember the details. I do remember playing the Gaddock Teeg, and then using my Karakas to Port on his upkeep. He topdecked StP, removed Teeg, Terminus my board, then entreat for the win. It felt really bad, but I blame being tired after a long day.
Against this guy, I have been trying Medeas tactic of boarding out Mother of Runes, and I like it so far. Against mentor miracles I keep 2 mothers in, just to be able to hit through mentor tokens on the ground.
Revoker was generally bad for me this tournament, and pridemage was a house. I never drew/played pridemage and thought; “Man, I wish this was a revoker…”
I really want some answers in the sideboard against Eldrazi. But I feel that my SB is very cramped for space atm, I have been thinking lately about going back to
an option I felt was suboptimal the last time i tried it; Tutor board. This allows me to remove some of the tutorable pieces already in the SB, and put in more
Eldrazi hate, while still having answers agains a wide field (upcoming GP). It will also give me a fifth way to find Batterskull in the eldrazi matchup. In addition, I will free up one space in main, by going down to one Sylvan Library.
I was testing yesterday against Eldrazi, and had a rough time.
One of the only cards that I felt actually did anything, apart from fliers, was batterskull out of the SB.
I might consider putting it back in the main (over SoWaP) if Eldrazi is going to be as heavily played as it currently is.
Might also consider putting a Worship in the SB.
I am going to GP Prague in June, and we are doing some playtesting for that atm.
I am currently playing GW taxes, and i think it is weaker to Burn than the mono-W version.
Any tips from the regular GW players here for that matchup? I've been running an Absolute Law in the SB because of Punishing Fire decks in my meta,
but is that maybe a little to narrow for such a wide field?
Combo is not very popular here in Norway, basically no TES, ant, high tide or belcher in my local meta. Tin fins might show up, some burn and infect though. I will keep them for another few tournaments and see how it goes.
Another thing i've been thinking about is 3x RiP vs 2x RiP + 1x Cage. There are quite a few reanimator players in my meta, and i think RiP is often too slow, especially if you're on the draw. Cage also has some value against elves. Thoughts?
So, storm has been declining quite a bit in my local meta, and I dont expect any in the smallest tournaments in my area. Should i cut the canonists completely from the SB, or is it worth keeping 1 or both for some other matchups?
WLL also goes in against Jund, as they have liliana, possibly hymn, and buffs you creatures out of punishing fire range.
I also frequently side it in against any deck that runs dread of night / sulfur elemental etc. out of the sideboard to save my 1-toughness dudes.
Frenadol also mentioned that it's good in the mirror.
I ended up 3-0-1. I took some quick notes, but didn't have time to write in depth for each match.
Match 1: Miracles 2-1
Game 1: He is on the draw, and starts by playing a top, which I name with Revoker on the following turn. I follow up with wasting his volcanic island, and porting an island. He didn't draw another land before i equipped the revoker with SoWaP. 1-0
Out - 2 StP, 1 Mirran Crusader, 1 SoFaI
In - 2 Choke, 1 Gaddock Teeg, 1 Brimaz Game 2: He swords my turn 1 Mom. Turn 2 I try to play pridemage, but it gets Forced. He then drops a counterbalance, and then hits my Thalia blind. When he plays a top, i get locked out of the game, and beat to death with a snapcaster. 1-1 Game 3: Turn 2 Thalia sticks, and he plays an engineered explosives on 2. Luckily i topdeck Karakas to keep it alive. I hold him off any serious plays with port and Thalia, until i get down a brimaz he can't beat. He played blood moon at one point, which left me with 1 white mana (hurts relatively much against this version), but it was too late at that point. 2-1
Thalia and port were the mvp's here, as he didn't draw that many lands. I kept 2 StP in because almost every player in my local meta plays Mentor. He didn't however, and scoffed at how i kept 2 StP in, even if he had played mentor. He argued they are not any good, because they will never resolve, and that i should just side in 2 bears instead. What do you guys think?
Match 2: Grixis Delver 2-0
Game 1: Mana denial from both sides. At one point he was left with no lands (love greedy mana bases), so i just started hitting with my only play so far, a mother of runes. It ended up hitting for 9 (a first for me) before dying to a lightning bolt. I ended up beating him down with a Serra Avenger, and swording his 2 next plays. 1-0
Out - 2 Pridemage, 1 Revoker
In - 2 Choke, 1 Brimaz Game 2: Sworded his deathrite, and wasted his land. I played a Thalia, and he played a young pyromancer and cantripped for 2 mana each turn to make tokens. We got into a board stall, which i finally ended when i topdecked a jitte i used to kill off his pyromancer and tokens. 2-0
After the match he showed me he was stuck with a jitte in hand, due to mana denial. Guess i should've kept the pridemages?
Match 3: Death and Taxes 1-1-1
This match went to time, so I didn't have much time to take notes. Game 1: He was on the play, and I made a huge mistake by not porting a land on his upkeep so he couldn't equip a jitte he had played, which basically lost me the game. 0-1 Game 2: Only sideboard i really have is Brimaz in the mirror.
Mulligan to 5. I was on the play, and landed a stoneforge turn 2 and got a jitte which won me the game. 1-1 (Equipment is by far the most important piece of the puzzle in the mirror i think, so i mulligan agressively for that) Game 3: A very interesting game that ended up in a huge board stall, with 2 mother of runes and 4-5 other creatures on both sides. He notably played 4 Revokers, each naming an equipment in my deck. when we were low on time, he started using one of the moms to give his flickerwisp prot white, and swing. That gave me an opening to use 2 StP to remove the revoker naming SoWaP. I started hitting him for 7 a turn, but the last round ended with him on 1 life left. 1-1-1
I think that tighter play from either side would have won that person the game. Super intense and fun, which i always think the D&T mirrors are. It really rewards tight play. Notably, I think the mono-white version is better after board that GW. I didn't see the pridemages these games, which could definitely have helped.
Match 4: RUG Delver 2-1
A matchup I usually win, but can sometimes be hard due to their wasteland. This guy also plays life from the loam to recycle wastes, so I was wary about aggressive wasting from my side. Game 1: Mulligan to 6. He dazed my vial, and wasted my savannah, which was my only white source. He then cast 2 tarmogoyfs, and i havd no chance to get back in the game. 0-1
Out - 3 revoker, 2 pridemage, 1 flickerwisp
In - 2 RiP, 2 Choke, 1 Absolute Law, 1 Brimaz
I know i probably went a bit overboard here. I wanted the absolute law to prot against rough // tumble, is that good enough though? 1 flickerwisp went out to reduce 1 toughness creatures (forked bolt and sulfur elemental). I probably should have kept pridemages in, because they have 2 toughness. any sideboarding tips here? Game 2: I constrained his mana with waste and port after i land a vial, and that's basically all i needed. 1-1 Game 3: Mulligan to 6 and i keep a hand with choke, absolute law and RiP. I bait a force with absolute law, and i land RiP, which really hurt his 3 nimble mongoose. I also landed a choke which kept him off land for the rest of the game. I managed to get a hit in with jitte when i was at 1 life, gaining 4 life while he could only hit for 3, and i snuck in a victory. 2-1
I think RiP won me the game, although choke held him off land for quite a while. He didn't think choke would usually be very good against him, even if it was that game. Any thoughts?
Won 50 bucks, and bought another sylvan library for the deck (which i have not resolved in the 4 tournaments i've used it by the way). I still need to get a better sideboarding plan for each deck, as i'm still in the testing phase. Any thoughts about my choices here are appreciated.
Even if you board in Paths, they will often take them out of your hand if you can't respond to the trigger, and they don't die to searing blaze.
The bant version also plays Worship, which they can protect with thought-knot by taking destructive revelery before playing it.
Anyone have any specific tips for the matchup? Any spicy sideboard cards?
Is that variant dead now with all the new cards?
Chain Lightning
Daze
Rishadan Port
Ancestral Vision
Cabal Therapy
Will not be printed:
Thoughtseize
Sensei's Divining Top
Stifle
Misdirection
Sulfuric Vortex
@esplanades Only got sylvan library one game against miracles, but didn't matter much there. It has been very good for me before though, especially against miracles, lands and shardless BUG. I am pondering putting one more in the main, if only to draw it more often to test it more, but having a hard time cutting anything.
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
3 Plains
4 Windsept Heath
1 Arid Mesa
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Qasali Pridemage
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Serra Avenger
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Flickerwisp
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Choke
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
3 Rest in Peace
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Absolute Law
Round 1: 2-1 vs Infect
My opponent discovered a decklist error just before the first match started which he had to correct, and got a game loss for tardiness. I don’t like the Infect matchup too much, so I was happy to start off 1-0.
second game he had the turn 2 kill on the play, nothing to do about that. Game 3 I StP his first threat, and he doesn’t find another infect guy before I drop a Jitte and he concedes.
I ended up siding in Carpet of flowers, which he didn’t agree I should do, because he wants to fetch basics against me anyway. It only gave me 1 extra mana to work with, but I think it made quite a difference in this case. Input on this is welcome.
Round 2: 2-1 vs Lands
First game I play mother of runes and thalia, which slowed him down considerably. He didn’t manage to assemble anything before I found SfM + Batterskull and won a few turns later.
Game 2 he got me in a wasteland lock, and it took too long before I found my second fetch to get Plains. I now had 2 mana turn 6, and he crop rotated for a tabernacle, and played a rishadan port. I conceded. Game 3 was very grindy. He made a Marit Lage token in my end step, and I vialed in a flickerwisp to remove it. At this point he is at very low health, but I know he can just Loam both his lands back and play both. Luckily I topdecked Fiend Hunter which dealt with the second token, and I swung for the win.
Turns out Fiend Hunter has quite a few uses beside eldrazi, as I also sided it in against Infect for the extra removal. Not sure I want it over Mirran Crusader in main yet though, depends on how much punishing fire is in the meta.
Round 3: 2-0 vs Miracles
Game 1 I kept a hand with 2 Pridemages. He killed the first one, but when I dropped the second + aether vial, he thought for a while, and cast Predict naming Counterbalance and put it into his yard. Won that game pretty quickly after that. Game 2 I mulliganed to 6, had a choke in hand, and scryed a choke to the top. He forced the first one, but couldn’t counter the second. I proceeded to keep him off white mana with Port, and Thalia made it impossible for him to do anything.
Choke is mvp against miracles, especially paired with other taxing, feels impossible to lose.
Round 4: 2-0 vs Mentor Miracles
First game, he killed my first threat, and pulled the trigger on Mentor turn 3. I guess he had a good reason to (a lot of cantrips in hand), but I think it was a little early. I ended up swording it, and found a SoFaI to protect against his cliques and snapcasters, which ended the game quickly.
Game 2 he FoWed my vial, and I slammed choke turn 3, and managed to sneak it past his counterbalance. I was a bit worried, since he plays mentors and cliques, but I just had to go for it. Ended up winning me the game outright, as he didn’t find his Wear//Tear.
Choke is incredibly good against miracles. I’m always a bit bummed when I get SfM and can’t search for my SoWaP in game 1, but I’m too weary of eldrazi atm to keep batterskull in SB.
Round 5: ID vs Shardless BUG
We were hungry.
Top 8 Quarterfinals: 2-0 vs Storm
I was on the play, and slammed Thalia turn 2, he didn’t have the FoW. That was Game 1.
Game 2 I put vial in to play, and aggressively wastelanded and ported his lands, and got Thalia into play off the vial. Turn 5 or 6 I dropped choke, and he was stuck with 1 swamp I ported each upkeep until he lost.
Got to keep 2 openers with Thalia in them, which is nice. Don’t have Canonist in the board right now, as there is not much storm in my local meta. I’m not sure Choke is correct against fast combo, but if you manage to draw the game out to the point that you can cast it, it is very good.
Top 8 Semifinals: 0-2 vs Miracles
This was the same guy I played in round 3. The first game ended when I attacked with a thalia and a revoker, and he miracles Entreat for 3 angels to wipe my board.
Game 2 was super grindy, and I can’t remember the details. I do remember playing the Gaddock Teeg, and then using my Karakas to Port on his upkeep. He topdecked StP, removed Teeg, Terminus my board, then entreat for the win. It felt really bad, but I blame being tired after a long day.
Against this guy, I have been trying Medeas tactic of boarding out Mother of Runes, and I like it so far. Against mentor miracles I keep 2 mothers in, just to be able to hit through mentor tokens on the ground.
Revoker was generally bad for me this tournament, and pridemage was a house. I never drew/played pridemage and thought; “Man, I wish this was a revoker…”
an option I felt was suboptimal the last time i tried it; Tutor board. This allows me to remove some of the tutorable pieces already in the SB, and put in more
Eldrazi hate, while still having answers agains a wide field (upcoming GP). It will also give me a fifth way to find Batterskull in the eldrazi matchup. In addition, I will free up one space in main, by going down to one Sylvan Library.
My SB would then look something like this:
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Choke
2 Rest in Peace
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Absolute Law
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
1 Fiend Hunter
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
Thoughts?
One of the only cards that I felt actually did anything, apart from fliers, was batterskull out of the SB.
I might consider putting it back in the main (over SoWaP) if Eldrazi is going to be as heavily played as it currently is.
Might also consider putting a Worship in the SB.
I am currently playing GW taxes, and i think it is weaker to Burn than the mono-W version.
Any tips from the regular GW players here for that matchup? I've been running an Absolute Law in the SB because of Punishing Fire decks in my meta,
but is that maybe a little to narrow for such a wide field?
Another thing i've been thinking about is 3x RiP vs 2x RiP + 1x Cage. There are quite a few reanimator players in my meta, and i think RiP is often too slow, especially if you're on the draw. Cage also has some value against elves. Thoughts?
I also frequently side it in against any deck that runs dread of night / sulfur elemental etc. out of the sideboard to save my 1-toughness dudes.
Frenadol also mentioned that it's good in the mirror.
Do you side in carpet of flowers against all blue decks?
Gonna try out 2 in the SB for a larger tournament on saturday.
4 Rishadan port
4 Wasteland
3 Savannah
3 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Plains
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
4 Æther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Batterskull
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Containment Priest
2 Choke
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
1 Absolute Law
I ended up 3-0-1. I took some quick notes, but didn't have time to write in depth for each match.
Match 1: Miracles 2-1
Game 1: He is on the draw, and starts by playing a top, which I name with Revoker on the following turn. I follow up with wasting his volcanic island, and porting an island. He didn't draw another land before i equipped the revoker with SoWaP. 1-0
Out - 2 StP, 1 Mirran Crusader, 1 SoFaI
In - 2 Choke, 1 Gaddock Teeg, 1 Brimaz
Game 2: He swords my turn 1 Mom. Turn 2 I try to play pridemage, but it gets Forced. He then drops a counterbalance, and then hits my Thalia blind. When he plays a top, i get locked out of the game, and beat to death with a snapcaster. 1-1
Game 3: Turn 2 Thalia sticks, and he plays an engineered explosives on 2. Luckily i topdeck Karakas to keep it alive. I hold him off any serious plays with port and Thalia, until i get down a brimaz he can't beat. He played blood moon at one point, which left me with 1 white mana (hurts relatively much against this version), but it was too late at that point. 2-1
Thalia and port were the mvp's here, as he didn't draw that many lands. I kept 2 StP in because almost every player in my local meta plays Mentor. He didn't however, and scoffed at how i kept 2 StP in, even if he had played mentor. He argued they are not any good, because they will never resolve, and that i should just side in 2 bears instead. What do you guys think?
Match 2: Grixis Delver 2-0
Game 1: Mana denial from both sides. At one point he was left with no lands (love greedy mana bases), so i just started hitting with my only play so far, a mother of runes. It ended up hitting for 9 (a first for me) before dying to a lightning bolt. I ended up beating him down with a Serra Avenger, and swording his 2 next plays. 1-0
Out - 2 Pridemage, 1 Revoker
In - 2 Choke, 1 Brimaz
Game 2: Sworded his deathrite, and wasted his land. I played a Thalia, and he played a young pyromancer and cantripped for 2 mana each turn to make tokens. We got into a board stall, which i finally ended when i topdecked a jitte i used to kill off his pyromancer and tokens. 2-0
After the match he showed me he was stuck with a jitte in hand, due to mana denial. Guess i should've kept the pridemages?
Match 3: Death and Taxes 1-1-1
This match went to time, so I didn't have much time to take notes.
Game 1: He was on the play, and I made a huge mistake by not porting a land on his upkeep so he couldn't equip a jitte he had played, which basically lost me the game. 0-1
Game 2: Only sideboard i really have is Brimaz in the mirror.
Mulligan to 5. I was on the play, and landed a stoneforge turn 2 and got a jitte which won me the game. 1-1 (Equipment is by far the most important piece of the puzzle in the mirror i think, so i mulligan agressively for that)
Game 3: A very interesting game that ended up in a huge board stall, with 2 mother of runes and 4-5 other creatures on both sides. He notably played 4 Revokers, each naming an equipment in my deck. when we were low on time, he started using one of the moms to give his flickerwisp prot white, and swing. That gave me an opening to use 2 StP to remove the revoker naming SoWaP. I started hitting him for 7 a turn, but the last round ended with him on 1 life left. 1-1-1
I think that tighter play from either side would have won that person the game. Super intense and fun, which i always think the D&T mirrors are. It really rewards tight play. Notably, I think the mono-white version is better after board that GW. I didn't see the pridemages these games, which could definitely have helped.
Match 4: RUG Delver 2-1
A matchup I usually win, but can sometimes be hard due to their wasteland. This guy also plays life from the loam to recycle wastes, so I was wary about aggressive wasting from my side.
Game 1: Mulligan to 6. He dazed my vial, and wasted my savannah, which was my only white source. He then cast 2 tarmogoyfs, and i havd no chance to get back in the game. 0-1
Out - 3 revoker, 2 pridemage, 1 flickerwisp
In - 2 RiP, 2 Choke, 1 Absolute Law, 1 Brimaz
I know i probably went a bit overboard here. I wanted the absolute law to prot against rough // tumble, is that good enough though? 1 flickerwisp went out to reduce 1 toughness creatures (forked bolt and sulfur elemental). I probably should have kept pridemages in, because they have 2 toughness. any sideboarding tips here?
Game 2: I constrained his mana with waste and port after i land a vial, and that's basically all i needed. 1-1
Game 3: Mulligan to 6 and i keep a hand with choke, absolute law and RiP. I bait a force with absolute law, and i land RiP, which really hurt his 3 nimble mongoose. I also landed a choke which kept him off land for the rest of the game. I managed to get a hit in with jitte when i was at 1 life, gaining 4 life while he could only hit for 3, and i snuck in a victory. 2-1
I think RiP won me the game, although choke held him off land for quite a while. He didn't think choke would usually be very good against him, even if it was that game. Any thoughts?
Won 50 bucks, and bought another sylvan library for the deck (which i have not resolved in the 4 tournaments i've used it by the way). I still need to get a better sideboarding plan for each deck, as i'm still in the testing phase. Any thoughts about my choices here are appreciated.
If you can keep them off Bayou with port and waste, choke should be able to put in a lot of work, no?