MTG Salvation

Quote from asmallcat »

Are you saying he's not a rapist? He raped someone, right?

No actually he pled guilty to sexual assault with the approval of the victim, he was never tried and convicted of rape.

But that doesn't get the blood boiling like rapist does it?

Quote from Moxnix »

Yes I do know what that is and see no relevance to my stance

Because clearly Wizards has at least made one decision not based off of pure market profit but off of morals.

@RxPhantom

Do you think Patrick Chapin is a scumbag?

And drug addiction is a terrible thing that people have to deal with their whole lives even if they manage to get clean. It damages not only the addict but their families.

And Chapin wasnt growing some pot in his basement, he was selling large quanities of ectasy, hell the only reason he didnt do more jail time is because his partner died of an overdose.

I dont see how people can't see the crimes as at least comparable. Again its not like Chapin was busted with some pot plants in his basement.

Quote from Moxnix »

There is no place for anyone to debate is my stance it's cut and dry. They are the one who gets to make the decision he knew ahead of time they could ban him at any time for any reason. Their is not moral stance to take against them as they let everyone who plays know ahead of time they can take that privilege from you at any time. It could have came from any standpoint money or otherwise no one else has authority and everyone agreed to that.

You know what the reserve list is? And why its killing the eternal formats?

Quote from Moxnix »

The point you ignore is the only one that matters. Wizards reserved the right to ban anyone at any time for any reason. They decided for whatever reason this guy being allowed to play after going viral would cost them money. He was banned.

Your addressing one of two facts that almost everyone is in agreement with, the other being that his crime was a very bad one.

The issue is the morality not whether they could do it or not.

Quote from Grant »

Rapist: "just a guy with a troubled past trying to find some joy in this life"
Someone who brings past of rapist to attention: "sanctimonious peace [sic] of dog turd"

I don't know why Drew Levin didn't leave well enough alone. Maybe he is a friend of the victim. Maybe he is a friend of a victim. Maybe he's got a grudge against Jesse for some unrelated reason and this is his petty vengeance.

But whatever his reason, I'm bemused by your willingness to forgive one and not the other.

their outrage is a lie and their motives are transparent.

If he really did care about safety issues he would have went to Wizards or the TO, not the public "PSA"

Zach Jesse had done nothing in the past decade to arouse suspicion that he hadnt fufilled his end of what society had expected of him.

And yeah we cant ever know what went through Drew Levin but just looking at what happened Drew Levin decided he wanted to ruin the guy and a lot of people were more then happy to oblige.

Quote from Highroller »

I'm looking at the reddit, and the user kissingthekitten said something I agree with:

"Whether or not you think Zach Jesse deserves his ban, whether or not you think convicted felons should be allowed to play the game, whether or not you think Drew Levin or LSV deserve to be drawn and quartered, the one area that I hope we can all agree is that we need a clear explanation of what rules we're expected to follow and what the conditions for tournament admittance are."

See I really feel like this is a deflection of what the primary issue is, to me its this.

Drew Levin for whatever reason decided to go digging into the past of Zach Jesse. From what I have read Zach Jesse has not done anything in the past decade to warrant any investigation, so what motivated Drew Levin is a mystery.

He then made it public knowledge what Zach Jesse had done a bunch of people some of them high level pro's (LSV) joined in the outrage and Wizards proceeded to ban Zach Jesse and seize his MTGO account.

Can they do that? Yes.

Should they have a policy? Yes.

To me the question is what has happen to Wizards, CFB, SCG, and the magic community were this mob justice has not only become acceptable but actually has a sizable portion of defenders. This is just the apex of this recent trend, first it was the playmatts, then it was art work on cards, then it was a string of players having to make public apologizes, then an article was pulled from SCG and now a player was banned and had his account seized.

Quote from Prima Vera »

Oh no, there is a guy who raped someone once! Let's ban him from everywhere!
What, someone ruined a lot of other lives with drugs? Oh don't mind it, those are completely different crimes, let's focus our attention onto the guy who ruined only one!

I wasnt lying, theres so no point in arguing.

Quote from Mort459 »

Fair, but if his crime was raping an unconcious man we certainly would be having this conversation. Maybe some people would have different opinions on it, but that's their hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of other's shouldn't change how we evaluate a situation.

Ultimately, if I decide I'm going to throw a neighborhood party, I don't have to invite the rapist from down the street. Even if I don't mind him being there, I recognize it might make my guests uncomfortable, and I want everyone to have a good time. So sorry rapist, you're not invited.

This is essentially what WOTC is doing with this decision, and:
1. I understand why they did it.
2. I have little to no sympathy for Zach.
3. I do think they need to address this directly; re Chapin and every other felon that has a DCI membership (and there are numerous)

So do you believe Chapin should be banned for life?

Quote from A Guy Who Might Post »

It is kind of terrible how much sympathy a rich white rapist can get. It does not do much to give me faith in the mtg community.

And here we see the nature of the beast, why should it matter his race or economic status?

Quote from Forgotten_Illusions »

-probably have more to do with the murders, rapes, and dismemberments that occur around the drug trade,

NOT the act of selling drugs itself.

Really?

Also when was ectasy considered a "soft drug"

Also yeah it was ectasy:

Heres the case.

http://www.leagle.com/decision/2002831231FSupp2d600_1778

Quote from Prima Vera »

I seriously hope you are a lier.

But even if you are not, I still don't understand why it is ignored. Point is, if they banned a rapist, why don't they ban a drug dealer?
And, like, no one talks about it? So he needs to do a reddit post about it for people to notice?

Because the people who SJWd Zach Jesse really dont care about justice, Drew Levin just wanted to destroy the dude and he knew exactly how to get a mob riled up.

Quote from Tiax »

Feeling that theft and aggravated sexual battery are different crimes warranting different levels of concern is not a "ridiculous double standard". The two are not equivalent, and we have no obligation to have an equal reaction to them.

What about recovering heroin addicts or victims of drug violence around Chapin?

Quote from Prima Vera »

May I interfere and ask why the comment about someone who has a resort in WOtC Hall of Flame having something to do with selling drugs is entirely ignored?

Just interested, nothing personal.

Honest answer?

Because we are mostly white middle class suburbanites who never had to deal with the horrors of drug violence, so we think drug dealers are just shifty dudes that sell ganja and are harmless.

Quote from Forgotten_Illusions »

Well said. I can't blame Wizards and Hasbro for wanting to avoid the discomforting possibility that, if Zach Jesse won a major event, they would be obliged to publicly celebrate a convicted rapist.

The outrage that some members of the Magic community are expressing at Jesse's ban--outrage which will almost certainly dissipate after a few weeks--is nothing compared to the uproar that would emerge should the general public learn about the veneration of a sex offender.

It's important to evaluate the ban from the perspective of someone who knows and cares nothing about Magic. Would an outsider to the game, if told about Jesse's ban, be angry or even interested about the fact that someone is prevented from playing a silly card game? Doubtful. Would an outsider, by contrast, be upset if a convicted sex offender is venerated by a major corporation like Hasbro? You betcha.

It's not fair, but it doesn't have to be. Let's face it: rapists have a justifiably bad reputation in the public eye and a special place in hell.

Did you just gloss over the stuff about Patrick Chapin (Who I sincerely hope doesnt face any sort of negative action now), ask anyone who lives in an intercity area what they think about drug dealers or in Northern Mexico.

Quote from Tiax »

The law says he served his prison sentence, but it also says he's worthy of being on a list of people who committed violent sexual offenses. When he's eligible for removal from that list, and the panel judges him worthy of removal, that's when I'll consider the justice system to have declared him rehabilitated.

Hes on it for life from what I can find.