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  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from Equinox2793 »
    Quote from vonklaude »

    I agree with 99% of your list. I feel like you pretty much nail it. Fatal Push is 3-4 not 4. Collective Brutality is increasingly finding a spot. Logic Knot sometimes appears as a 0-2 in a list instead of Mana Leak.



    I forgot Logic Knot so I'll update it. There isn't a world where fae only plays 3 fatal push in this meta.

    I see 2017 lists with 3 Fatal Push on MtGTop8 so although it could make sense to play 4 we have to concede that some Faeries pilots see that differently. To my mind, presenting Faeries core isn't about what I would personally play, it's about what actually is played.

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries

    I agree with 99% of your list. I feel like you pretty much nail it. Fatal Push is 3-4 not 4. Collective Brutality is increasingly finding a spot. Logic Knot sometimes appears as a 0-2 in a list instead of Mana Leak.

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Hi all!

    My fiancee is super into playing UB Faeries. She's currently on GB Elves, but wants another tribal deck that plays out differently (she's also been into trying blue in Modern). So I'm going to buy her the deck, but since there's so much variation among lists, I'm finding it hard to settle on the "best" build. Are there any "received" lists floating around the community? If so, would someone mind posting one? I'd really appreciate it.

    Thanks very much for taking the time to read this.

    I think the Faeries core is something like this

    2-3 Mistbind Clique
    0-4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    1-2 Vendilion Clique

    Other Spells
    -----------------
    4 Bitterblossom
    2-3 Cryptic Command
    5-6 Removal (some mix of Dismember, Go for the Throat, Fatal Push, Murderous Cut)
    5-6 Discard (some mix of Inquisition of Kozilek and Thoughtseize)
    2-3 Counterspells (some mix of Countersquall, Mana Leak, Negate and Spell Snare)
    0-2 Flex (cards like Collective Brutality)
    0-3 Liliana of the Veil
    0-3 Cantrips (either Ancestral Visions or Serum Visions)

    Lands
    ----------
    2-3 Creeping Tarpit
    4 Darkslick Shores
    0-1 Ghost Quarter
    2-3 Island
    4 Mutavault
    4 River of Tears
    4 Secluded Glen
    0-1 Sunken Ruins
    2 Swamp

    For me the bolded cards are more core than others although I feel Mistbind has lost some cachet in the current meta.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Below is an update to my Faeries Shadow list. After 10 games in tournament practice it is at 6 wins and 4 losses. Two losses were against the same life gain deck (Martyr of Sands etc). One loss was to Lantern. The fourth I can't recall right now. It won handily against Burn so it wasn't that.


    Slip Through Space turned out to be a bit clunky. I still believe the deck wants a cantrip in that slot, and making Death's Shadow unblockable is in theory powerful so now I am trialling Aphotic Wisps. It feels possible that I have one too many lands, but not sure what to play instead... maybe the 4th Shadow?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from Equinox2793 »
    My issue is that you are only on 3 shadows which doesn't make sense since you tailor the list to the card. Shadow also wants a lower to the ground list with less mana than faeries normally run. If it works for you then w/e but I don't see the fit.

    4 Death's Shadow might be correct. From playing the deck, 3 so far has felt reasonable. My sense is that it is replacing Mistbind and thus is a card we want to draw into rather than holding in our opening seven. More testing is needed to settle that question. Note that the list isn't tailored to Shadow any more than it is to Liliana. It's very much the converse: the card fits the list.

    Quote from Equinox2793 »
    My question to you is: how is your list not a worse version of Grixis shadow/UB(x) shadow? What does your deck do that's better than those decks? One of the backbones of this archtype is our ability to win with our man lands/using mutavault plus sprite to win. For example you run 23 lands, yet you have an extremely low curve which makes me feel like this deck floods a lot.

    Good thought: I can see cutting one land. As you say, the manlands are a backbone for us so I'm always happy to see them. I think what Faeries does better than Grixis is that we are playing the tempo game to eke out an advantageous game state, and then we are switching roles to aggro. Whereas Grixis is more about attrition and using the graveyard as a resource. For our game plan, Shadow is one of the most efficient aggro cards available and it feeds off our self-harm (i.e. 'blossom).
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from burningeffigy »
    With the pervasiveness of death's shadow appearing in decks throughout the format, there always comes a point where you have to ask, "is this the most efficient and effective way to play this card?". I don't know that this way is NOT the most efficient; it would have been helpful if @equinox2793 had provided feedback on the deck instead of trashing it. That being said, many faerie decks start to look like another deck with a faerie splash. Faeries is tier 3, shadow is tier 1, are we making bad death's shadow decks, and not really playing faeries? lots of philosophical questions here...

    Agreed. That is the angle I am approaching this from. My goal is a good Faeries deck not a bad Shadow deck. How it started is that I watched a number of matches on SCG and two facts connected for me. I noticed Shadow players Tarfire themselves or put down shocklands needlessly untapped to accelerate the pace of their life loss. And I recollected that Faeries' lands are chosen to avoid dealing life loss due to the tax of a Bitterblossom in play. Thus it felt reasonable to suspect there may be a synergy between Shadow wanting faster life loss, and Faeries' core commitment to self harm.

    The core of Faeries was 4 Bitterblossom, 4 Spellstutter Sprite, 4 Mutavault, 2-4 Mistbind Clique, 1-2 Vendilion Clique and 0-4 Scion of Oona. A minimum of 15 and maximum of 22 cards. For the last couple of years Faeries has habitually omitted Scion, and ubiquitous cheap removal has devalued Mistbind in the current meta.

    The deck I propose is playing the 14 Faeries that in my opinion are reasonable in the current meta. Shortening the deck via Streetwraith results in a deck that pro-rata feels very much like Faeries so I'd probably suggest simply cutting one wraith for one Mistbind if I felt it was good in the meta.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from Equinox2793 »


    At this point, why are you even playing faeries? Just play some UB(X) shadow deck.

    Faerie decks have for years included a small number of non-tribal cards as victory conditions. Anything from Liliana of the Veil (not a Faerie) to Sword of Feast and Famine (not a Faerie) to Smuggler's Copter (not a Faerie) to Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet (not Faeries).

    Thus, if we feel the way you do about Shadow then we need to question why we don't feel the same way about Lili, sofaf, coptor, Tasigur, Kalitas, snappy and all the other non-Tribal cards that we seem to like putting in Faeries?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from kpom »
    I'm fairly new to Faeries, and am really enjoying the deck. I've had pretty pretty poor results with it thus far, but it feels like it is very very close to being good. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/639242#paper

    Modern has evolved to favour aggro and unfair decks with a proactive plan. I believe essentially some years ago Wizards decided that "players like to play their cards" and began a project of nerfing control down to where it is today. Recently they have shown glimmers of awareness that the golden triangle (aggro-combo-control) is a thing and perhaps are trying to push control up a notch. Hence cards like Yahenni's Expertise. For now, Faeries is Tier 3 or lower, but we can hope!

    Quote from kpom »
    It seems most poorly positioned against things that can win without having creatures attack.

    Agreed. I'm playing Countersquall instead of Mana Leak for exactly that reason

    Quote from kpom »
    Combo elves (winning with a huge shaman of the pack or the new Throne of the god-pharoh). Cryptic/mistbind doesn't help, and if I don't see a well timed damnation post-board, that match seems really really skewed (lost 10/12 games). This matchup feels like it should be better, perhaps I was having poor draws/keeps.

    Draw Damnation is the main plan. The other plan is to discard and kill their key creatures as fast as they draw them, so you could try cutting Venser, Shaper Savant and playing one Murderous Cut. Another option is Engineered Explosives although I would say that EE is generally not the right card for Faeries.

    Quote from kpom »
    Burn seems less bad, but still not in our favor, unless they are on the creature plan. All of our removal is quite efficient. Bitterblossom has lost me a few matchups, and mistbind clique is really bad in this matchup (they can often cast in response to the trigger)

    I find Burn a reasonable MU with my Death's Shadow version of Faeries. As you say, Mistbind Clique is bad here and I believe bad generally in the current meta due to the amount of efficient removal available to most decks in Modern. All the White decks get Path to Exile. All the Black decks get Fatal Push, Dismember and Murderous Cut. Some get Terminate or Dreadbore. I feel like Yahenni's Expertise is a really interesting suggestion as I believe it can cast Ancestral Vision.

    Quote from kpom »
    Tron/Eldrazi both seems like they they outclass our stuff. Push/Spellstutter sprite don't pull much weight against Reality Smasher and Karn. I'm not sure how we actually win matchups that can just go over our heads. Ancestral visions doesn't matter when I draw things that are simply outclassed.

    Some MUs you just have to accept are bad and move on. They have a lot of triggers that happen even if you counter the spell. If Disallow countered both spell and triggers, we could use it. Sadly, it does not. Pithing Needle turns off planeswalkers, but you can expect Nature's Claim in game 2 and 3 when you would bring it in.

    Quote from kpom »
    Affinity seems like a 50/50 matchup. Some games bitterblossom can just take over a whole game, whereas other plans its more or less a dead card. Ghaipur Aether grid is amazing in that matchup, as do their etched champion.

    I feel like we are slightly favoured in the Affinity MU.

    Quote from kpom »
    Most of my other matches were either won, or lost on mistakes. This deck is one of the hardest decks to pilot I have played so far. Any insight into how to do better in these matches would be greatly appreciate.

    It is a hard deck to play and so far as I can tell, that is why we enjoy it! Faeries pilots are whimsical masochists Grin

    Remember to hold tempo, particularly in their turn 2 and 3 when a well-timed Spellstutter Sprite can do a lot of damage to their plan. Don't discard what you can counter. Don't counter what you can remove. Let live everything you can play around. There is a lot of crossover in what your cards can do, and making those decisions - what to discard, what to counter, what to kill - is very important. Treasure the info you get from playing your discard spells.

    Generally, play Bitterblossom and Liliana of the Veil aggressively. You can ride them to victory. Yes, this does conflict with holding up mana and making that decision is always difficult. There are many permanents that you simply cannot remove if they land - planeswalkers, enchantments, artifacts. Cryptic Command is often your only out and must be timed so that you bounce and then are prepared to counter on the way back down. Good luck!

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from jeremy4050 »
    Tarmogoyf has just as much synergy as DS, if not more, since we have a lot of card types, including tribal, to grow Goyf quick. DS is a dead card anywhere above 13 life, and I think the idea of faeries has always been to play conservatively, until you can turn the corner and win in turn or two. DS feels clunky for this, and Tar pits and mutavaults should be swinging by that late in the game. I'd rather have more interaction than creatures to make sure I get there. Just my opinion

    Death's Shadow feels to me in games to have better synergy than Tarmogoyf did. The only tribal we are playing is Bitterblossom and we aim to keep that one out of the grave! When Bitterblossom is doing its job, it is making Shadow stronger. Also, Tarmogoyf requires us to splash Green whereas Shadow is on-colour.

    I think what Shadow is doing is closing the deal a turn earlier than without. And so far it hasn't felt like a dead card. The single B casting cost fits well into tempo plays in the midgame. The comment on interaction doesn't chime true as this deck has a ton of interaction - at least as much as standard Faeries. 8x discard/hand-disruption, 6x removal, 9x counterspells. Street Wraith shortens the deck, so the feel in play is as if you swapped out just three other cards for three Shadows i.e. you see all your interaction at least as often if not more.

    It's great to have opinions so I am not knocking them (even where I disagree with them), but also - have you played the deck? If not, maybe give it a try. Faeries is Tier 3 right now and to move back up... we're going to need some new ideas.

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from Quartz »
    Putting 4 Death Shadows in a Faerie Deck because we have Bitterblossom is a lot worse than squeezing Bitterblossom in a Death Shadow deck.
    I think Death Shadow is not really a card for this deck. That´s why we have to stretch into using Liliana, and then some more life loss, and some cards to dig for it... What you really want in the end is to put Bitterblossom in a Death Shadow deck.

    The deck below is where I am up to so far, after several matches on MtGO. My last match was against Chord. The combination of discard, removal and counters obviously took Chord apart pretty well (2-0). From playing the deck, I feel like the key axis of synergy is the life loss and for me that argues more toward putting Shadow into a Bitterblossom deck, than the converse. Certainly dropping a huge hairy beater, and protecting it with Spellstutter and Cryptic, is feeling quite unfair. And the plan of letting Bitterblossom sink our life total to the needed levels is working out well so far.

    If you recall the splash-green for Tarmogoyf Faeries decks from a few years back that put up a few results (they weren't better than UB Faeries but they won games), then I would point out that Tarmogoyf has next to no synergy with the rest of our deck whereas Death's Shadow ties right to our core. We have to spend life: spending life gets us stronger counterspells, evasive beat down, and a force field... and in this deck a huge hairy beater.

    I forgot to try Slip Through Space so that will be next, replacing Serum Visions I think.

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from Nerevarine »
    I prefer a more controlly build so from my angle it seems like we're just taking a page out of a very good deck's book and trying to make it fit but let me know how it goes on mtgo. It seems equivalent to jamming the lilis because she's good (even though we use graveyards for nothing other than snapcasters in which case the idea is t2 blossom t3 lili then +1 a bunch). Or equivalent to splashing green for goyf (cus goyf) or white for path (not needed now we have push).

    My thinking was influenced by those old Faeries + 'goyf decks. However, the only synergy in Faeries for 'goyf was Liliana. My essential argument is that if 'blossom is core to our deck and causes life loss, then a card like Shadow that benefits from life loss is synergistic with our core strategy. Where it isn't synergistic is that it doesn't have flash (thankfully, really). You could be right about including cards to dig for one.

    Quote from Nerevarine »
    It seems more akin to a u/b deaths shadow build with blossom as extra life loss/ pressure than faeries with X4 shadows at this point.

    At first I thought it wasn't because the main 'goyf+Shadow deck is built to throw cards into the 'yard, benefit from doing that by turning on Delirium and huge 'goyfs, and then find a Shadow and Battle Rage ftw. So the synergies run through the Wraiths, Baubles, Liliana into Traverse, 'goyf, Shadow. It's really a fantastic deck. The Tarfire to put two types in the 'yard, and fetchlands to put another type in the 'yard and inflict life loss, is feeding into all that from another angle. Much of which is keeping Push on 4CMC mode of course.

    Which is where you could be on the money: maybe it's the latter angle (Tarfire and Fetchlands) that can be swapped out for 'blossom. In fact, I wonder whether Push is correct: my feeling is that Vendetta and no Fetchlands could be better. I'll try that next.

    Quote from Nerevarine »
    In your recent post you said that glen was poor with the low fae count, how does scion feel? I found more often than not it wasn't lining up with what i wanted to do because of the low faerie count. It's a lord in a deck with 10 other faeries, not quite merfolk levels of tribal.
    Also, you said you'd like to see shadow more, would serum visions be a good addition? One thing the deaths shadow deck has over others is traverse to get their shadow/goyf easily cus they can hit delirium reliably quickly. So some sort of draw/ dig spell wouldn't be bad, maybe in lieu of scion.
    - Also how about 4 deltas for added life loss/ revolt triggers?

    Agreed Scion should be cut. It's a nice combat trick but not quite right. Instead I'm wondering about a cantrip like Slip Through Space.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from treachtv »
    With Fatal Push and Death's Shadow in the deck, why not play a full playset of Polluted Delta instead of Glen/Tears?

    I think you are probably right. I played the deck on MtGO - it's quite fun! - and found that I would like to get to Shadow faster and as you say Delta feeds into Push. The version I am up to looks like this


    In the games I played I found Snapcaster didn't have enough targets, but that could just be variance. In a world of Path and Push, Scion does good service. And is good against Abzan's Lingering Souls. With fewer faeries, Glen was as you suspected losing value.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from Nerevarine »
    I think if we were to force death shadow then we should just be playing deaths shadow jund. If you want an efficient beater surely tasigur is better as it has utility as well?

    I feel like Tasigur doesn't have as much synergy. Part of the power of Death's Shadow is that it plays into something Modern decks do to themselves - and that our opponent must do to us to win - which is life loss. It's it trades away tempo into advantages and then lands a massive beater. Bitterblossom also furiously trades tempo into advantages, so I feel we should at least find out if the two are inherently synergistic? Is it really better for a pilot to Tarfire themselves when they could pay a few life into 'blossom?

    Feedback has been helpful so far Smile I'll give something like the following a try on MtGO.

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    Quote from TheBarbaron »
    Quote from Tyler697 »

    Bitterblossom does no where near enough reliably for shadow to be good, also I'd at least run 4 thoughtseize if I was trying to play shadow. Also why no fetch shocks?


    Agreed; if you're gonna try and force Shadow (and I think Shadow would be a 2-3-of in any Fae shell), we need minimum 4 fetches and 4 shocks. I could see going 6-8 fetches, 4 shocks, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Mutavault, 3 Tar Pit, and a couple basics. Run 4 Thoughtseize, and 2 Dismembers.
    Even then, it's very dangerous to have an active Blossom when Shadow gets good. You'll have to be playing Cryptic and Mistbind in order to be able to blank Blossom when necessary, or run lifelink.

    That's a lot of deck modification and extra danger against aggressive decks for a questionable payoff.

    Agreed; the deck needs tuning. Possibly running Streetwraith over Shocklands. I feel like at least 3 Death's Shadow is going to be correct.

    The thought came when I was watching someone skillful on CB or SCG (can't recall who or which) and noted that they would jam two BBs whenever they could which put them on pretty low life. They were doing pretty well but I wondered if they could have more success by dropping the efficient beater.

    You can see (and did see) the obvious boosts one could get using Thoughtseize and Dismember.

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on [Primer] UB/x Faeries
    I had a notion that we do a lot of self-harm with 'blossom and what favours self-harm?

    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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