R4 vs Ojutai Bant
G1 I kept a decent hand, but he got Protectors + Raptors out...
Sided: +2 Wound +1 Drown -1 Bile -2 Price (Mistakes were made...shouldn't've put in the Drown and also should've gone -2 Seize +2 Lili)
G2 I just couldn't draw then removal to deal with his threats. I also jumped the gun with a Downfall (onto a Fleecemane) then he dropped Courser and I drew a Blight... This game was easily winnable, I just played it badly. Also, I hate Dromoka's Command...
Ended up 3-1 and coming second, also think I've basically found my fav deck this format
Nice!!! Happy to see anytime others experience success with the lists; makes me feel like I'm not as crazy. HAHA
One thing I noted... really the only thing I noted in your Round by Round breakdown; I never side out Sieges.
Thoughtseize, not Siege. Sorry, only wrote Seize without thinking of how easy it would be to confuse with Siege. May bad :D.
The main thing I need to work on is my sequencing. I think I played a couple of things at the wrong time instead of bluffing removal (like Erebos vs the Bant list).
What about Tarmods Crypt instead of Trove? While it doesn't add devo for Erebos, it comes down whenever and doesn't have to be tapped out for.
I like the idea of Silence, have to find room for it.
I recommend people try out Risen Executioner if you haven't (vs Control).
So I've decided to give this deck a run (splash Red) and this is honestly the first version of control I've actually enjoyed playing! Took it to my locals which were tonight and did really well. Below is a quick bit on info about matchups.
G2 I cruxed him when he was flooding and then he end phased Secure the Wastes and my Bile Blight was a turn after he killed me.
G3 He had no board presence on T5, so dropped a Siege... (got double Duressed this game)
R2 vs Atarka Red
G1 I drew no removal and he dropped a couple of Outbursts...
Sided: +2 Cure +3 Drown +1 Plague -4 Sign -2 Seize
G2 Drowned for a +3 and then dropped Siege
G3 Plague + 2 Sieges beats this deck kinda hard (he was also stuck on 2 mana)
R3 vs Jeskai Dragons
G1 I mulled to 5 and kept an ok hand (my 6 hand was 3 Fountains + BB spells...) he ended up flooding out while I was looping Executioners with Commands and then I triple Sieged him
Sided: +2 Liliana -1 Command -1 Bile Blight (Blight was a mistake, not sure what else to take out)
G2 Lets just say a massacre happened. He couldn't stick a creature and I ended up Sieging him and then did Pits for 7.
R4 vs Ojutai Bant
G1 I kept a decent hand, but he got Protectors + Raptors out...
Sided: +2 Wound +1 Drown -1 Bile -2 Price (Mistakes were made...shouldn't've put in the Drown and also should've gone -2 Seize +2 Lili)
G2 I just couldn't draw then removal to deal with his threats. I also jumped the gun with a Downfall (onto a Fleecemane) then he dropped Courser and I drew a Blight... This game was easily winnable, I just played it badly. Also, I hate Dromoka's Command...
Ended up 3-1 and coming second, also think I've basically found my fav deck this format
True. I rarely have an issue casting Fleecemane on curve if it's in my hand, and colour screw is rarely an issue (unless I pick up all my G/W or G/R lands and no others, which has happened a couple of times.
I'm really debating cutting Dragonclaw as I haven't liked her at all yet. I've dropped her 3-4 times, and each time she's been quite irrelevant. Probably for another Fanatic (which I'm loving).
@Moon. I've been running something reasonably similar for the past couple of weeks. Have you thought about trying Fleecemane? I also highly recommend Dromoka if you can find room.
Here's the list I've been running. I'm not sure about Dragonclaw and loving Fanatic.
I'm currently playing a Naya list and really enjoying it. Testing has been pretty good so far with positive records in most matchups I've played against.
5-0 vs UB Control
2-0 vs Azban Aggro
1-2 vs GR Monsters
7-3 vs Mardu Midrange
I would love some feedback on the list.
Cards of note:
Dromoka - Has been testing really well, an attack with this basically seals the game
Polukranos (mb) - I'm on the fence with this. My meta is generally rouge/Azban, so it's been testing well
Plummet (sb) - Not sure if this or Hornet Queen if any are needed. It's a concession to the flyers that are around
Citadel Siege (sb) - I really want to make this work, but not sure if it's worth it. The idea is for midrange/control (posibly) matchups to either go bigger or tap stuff down with board state and play/draw deciding which one to pick
Wingmate Roc - I wanted some form of lifegain in addition to Courser and he's a flyer
Sarkhan - swaps with Stormbreath in matchups where he's lackluster
Xenagos - I'm not sure if I should be running this. I like him, but not sure as to his current place in the meta. He would turn into 3rd Shaman and 3rd Claws
I've managed to get some testing in with splashing for Crackling Doom. I can safely say I like it and have had only mana issues once out of 5-6 games and 50+ 'test draws' - until T5/6. It has really helped vs the Rhino and similar decks.
The mana base I'm using is
1 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence
3 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Nomad Outpost
2 Mystic Monastery
1 Temple of Epiphany
3 Shivan Reef
1 Battlefield Forge
I'll let you know. Due to other commitments, I won't be able to get in proper testing until next week at the earliest, but will probably be able to have a couple of fun games.
4 nomad outpost
4 temple of epiphany
4 flooded strand
2 island
2 plains
2 bloodstained mire
2 mana confluence
2 mystic monestary
1 temple of malice
1 mountain
1 swamp
It has 16 red sources, 14 white sources, 14 blue sources and 10 black sources. According to Frank, this should be good enough to cast Seeker on turn 2, Crackling Doom/Sarkhan on turn 5 and Dig on turn 7, 90% of the time. Of course I don't know how this works on in practice. However I really don't like dropping Dig Through Time from the list. IMO there's 2 reasons to play blue (and thus Jeskai) instead of black/Mardu; Mantis Rider and Dig Through Time. If your going to drop Dig to splash Crackling Doom, then why not just splash Mantis Rider in Mardu?
I could be completely wrong here, but I would want to try and keep in Dig Through Time. If you want to be greedy and splash a 4th colour, don't then play it safe and cut a powerful card like Dig.
With this, are you taking into account the sideboard of stuff like Anger? If not, how would you go about doing that? I'm not great with the maths side of things :D.
I'm honestly very curious as to this and will probably be testing it out in the next week or so, I'll have to find more Ephphany's and Confluences though..
I just hate how greedy the Roc/Outburst version is, wanting all 3 double colors. I know the mana base is pretty darn good, but i feel like I would lose to myself way too much. That guy obviously didnt have much trouble, though. Very good result and play, so maybe my fears are of no concern...
I've been playing Hordeling + Roc for at least 1.5 months and have had barely any issues. I'm playing 25 land and still occasionally get stuck on 4, after drawing a couple of Rocs and i think I've been stuck with 1 red twice. (also board Anger and Hostilities).
I'm so glad to see that for once, I wasn't behind the times lol.
As you see im testing Hordeling Outburst which was recommended a few pages back(they also said with wingmate roc which I may go to eventually but not yet.
I'm glad someone else is having success with Hordeling! Surprisingly it's helped my Azban matchup a little (due to how well it works with blocking the Rhino when you have Charm, which happens more often than you'd think...).
I've currently been playing with a more, I guess you'd call it midrange variant of the deck and I'm currently loving it. While the curve is a bit wacked (15 3 drops and an avg cmc of 3.46, it's been working quite well. However, my local meta has about 4-5 good players. I have noticed I have a bit of trouble against the Mardu Removal.deck that sees a lot of play in my area (4 Rabbles, 4 Butcher, x Raise the Alarm + removal).
I'd love some feedback, whether good or bad. It's in early development, so it's a bit off atm (I feel it is). I took some ideas from the Mardu decks and tried to incorporate it into Jeskai colours.
Hordeling has been amazing (but debating on using Raise the Alarm instead to lower the curve a little, but then I'll lose synergy with Rabble), as have Wingmates
I'm not sold on 2 Keranos in the main, but when he's dropped, unless there is an answer, my winrate is above 85% and the game is usually done if he sticks around for 2-3 draws.
I would like to fit in a couple of counterspells into the board, but not sure if I should
I would like to fit in some non damage related removal (Banishing or similar), but not sure here either
Hi guys. Just wanted to say great work on the thread so far. It's really good!
I've decided to try out a Mardu Midrange and I was wondering if you I could grab some feedback. Everything is basically theory right now. Unfortunately I don't have Wingmate's and didn't know where to fit in Ashclouds (also only have 3 Thoughtseize).
The only weird choice mainboard that I can see is Deflecting Palm, that's just a 'tribute' to all the green based midrange in the area (would be a Roc if I had one). I also eyeballed the mana, but in test hands it seems ok so far.
So I had Games Day today and scrubbed out really hard.
R1 vs Mardu
Smash him G1, I misplayed on T4 in G2 and that lost me the game and I flooded out in G3
R2 vs UWR Control
He mana screwed G1 and flooded G2
R3 vs Mardu
Couldn't find a white mana to save myself and lost on T9 (kept a 3 land hand) and G2 was he just killed everything that I could play and I flooded out on about T7
R4 vs Azban
Lost a really close G1 (who the hell mains Arbor Colossus?), won G2 easily (T2 Seeker, T3 Seeker T4 Suspension and counter the Rhino) and G3 I flooded.
tl;dr
Played 10 games, flooded/mana screwed in 5, won 4 of the others
Hushwing was really meh and I didn't like it. Not even that much in the Azban matchup.
I decided to quickly go through CFB and SCG articles to see if I could find anything different that 'the pros' are using. Their decklist seems a little different to what we are currently looking at. I'm not sure if this has been posted earlier, but I don't think it has (had a quick look).
Here's what the CFB guys played for a total record of 29-26-1. Here's the article I'm referencing (~halfway down the page).
Hughwing Thoughts
We had Hushwing Gryff instead of Goblin Rabblemaster in the main deck. We liked the flier better for three reasons:
First, it shuts down Siege Rhino, Wingmate Roc, Nylea's Disciple, and Hornet Queen, which would otherwise be very problematic for Jeskai. Other relevant enters-the-battlefield triggers in Standard include Doomwake Giant, Reclamation Sage, and Eidolon of Blossoms.
Second, it has flying. When everyone has Sylvan Caryatid, Courser of Kruphix, Siege Rhino, Polukranos, and so on, it is very hard for ground creatures like Goblin Rabblemaster to get in, but evasive creatures happily fly over.
Third, flash means that it plays very well with all of the instant-speed cards in the deck. If your opponent casts a card worth countering or burning, you just do that, and play the Gryff otherwise.
So, it is just very well positioned in the format, and most people who played the deck were happy with their choice of Gryff over Rabblemaster.
Ashcloud Thoughts
We ran this over Dig Through Time. Both cards have utility as late-game mana sinks, but Ashcloud Phoenix is a great on-curve evasive threat that is great in a damage race. It excels in the mirror match and against decks with lots of removal.
We were actually expecting more Ashcloud Phoenix in the Pro Tour because the card was performing quite well in testing, so we ran 3 Banishing Light in the main deck and 3 Magma Spray in the sideboard to fight it. In hindsight, Ashcloud Phoenix was not as popular, so Suspension Field or Nullify might have been better in the main deck and Dig Through Time might have been better in the sideboard.
Nullify Thoughts
Team ChannelFireball ran this card in their Jeskai deck, and I like it a lot. There are so many great 3+ mana cards in the format that it's hard to find an edge there, but you can get an edge by running 2-mana cards that can still trade up in the late-game. Nullify fits that criterion admirably. It might require a bit of a retooling of the mana base, but that may very well be worth it.
My thoughts on this are:
I find it interesting that there is no Sarkhan. It seems the pro white > indestructible currently. I agree with the prevalence of white that is in the meta.
Very monster heavy, as opposed to a majority of this thread.
No Digs - I found this very interesting. Ashcloud was run over them.
Thoughtseize, not Siege. Sorry, only wrote Seize without thinking of how easy it would be to confuse with Siege. May bad :D.
The main thing I need to work on is my sequencing. I think I played a couple of things at the wrong time instead of bluffing removal (like Erebos vs the Bant list).
What about Tarmods Crypt instead of Trove? While it doesn't add devo for Erebos, it comes down whenever and doesn't have to be tapped out for.
I like the idea of Silence, have to find room for it.
I recommend people try out Risen Executioner if you haven't (vs Control).
I ran Rottens MB and made some changes to the SB.
4 Duress
2 Cure
2 Self-Inflicted Wound
3 Drown
1 Plague
1 Risen Executioner
2 Liliana
R1 vs Bw Warriors
G1 was an easy win. Just removed all his creatures, stuck a Siege and dash Horde a couple of times
Sided: +2 Cure +3 Drown -4 Sign -1 Seize (I think)
G2 I cruxed him when he was flooding and then he end phased Secure the Wastes and my Bile Blight was a turn after he killed me.
G3 He had no board presence on T5, so dropped a Siege... (got double Duressed this game)
R2 vs Atarka Red
G1 I drew no removal and he dropped a couple of Outbursts...
Sided: +2 Cure +3 Drown +1 Plague -4 Sign -2 Seize
G2 Drowned for a +3 and then dropped Siege
G3 Plague + 2 Sieges beats this deck kinda hard (he was also stuck on 2 mana)
R3 vs Jeskai Dragons
G1 I mulled to 5 and kept an ok hand (my 6 hand was 3 Fountains + BB spells...) he ended up flooding out while I was looping Executioners with Commands and then I triple Sieged him
Sided: +2 Liliana -1 Command -1 Bile Blight (Blight was a mistake, not sure what else to take out)
G2 Lets just say a massacre happened. He couldn't stick a creature and I ended up Sieging him and then did Pits for 7.
R4 vs Ojutai Bant
G1 I kept a decent hand, but he got Protectors + Raptors out...
Sided: +2 Wound +1 Drown -1 Bile -2 Price (Mistakes were made...shouldn't've put in the Drown and also should've gone -2 Seize +2 Lili)
G2 I just couldn't draw then removal to deal with his threats. I also jumped the gun with a Downfall (onto a Fleecemane) then he dropped Courser and I drew a Blight... This game was easily winnable, I just played it badly. Also, I hate Dromoka's Command...
Ended up 3-1 and coming second, also think I've basically found my fav deck this format
I'm really debating cutting Dragonclaw as I haven't liked her at all yet. I've dropped her 3-4 times, and each time she's been quite irrelevant. Probably for another Fanatic (which I'm loving).
Here's the list I've been running. I'm not sure about Dragonclaw and loving Fanatic.
1x Dromoka, the Eternal
4x Elvish Mystic
2x Fanatic of Xenagos
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Polukranos, World Eater
3x Shaman of the Great Hunt
3x Stormbreath Dragon
1x Yasova Dragonclaw
2x Battlefield Forge
3x Forest
1x Mana Confluence
3x Mountain
2x Plains
4x Temple of Abandon
3x Temple of Plenty
3x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
4x Lightning Strike
3x Valorous Stance
3x Crater's Claws
2x Back to Nature
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Glare of Heresy
1x Hornet Nest
2x Hushwing Gryff
2x Plummet
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
1x Whisperwood Elemental
It's been running quite well and most people locally find it extremely strong, but something feels slightly off and I can't put my finger on it.
@all I've noticed recently people are siding Hornet Nest for aggro matchups and it wrecks me. Any tips on dealing with it?
5-0 vs UB Control
2-0 vs Azban Aggro
1-2 vs GR Monsters
7-3 vs Mardu Midrange
I would love some feedback on the list.
Cards of note:
3x Forest
1x Mana Confluence
3x Mountain
2x Plains
4x Temple of Abandon
3x Temple of Plenty
1x Temple of Triumph
3x Windswept Heath
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Crater's Claws
3x Courser of Kruphix
1x Dromoka, the Eternal
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Goblin Rabblemaster
2x Polukranos, World Eater
2x Shaman of the Great Hunt
2x Stormbreath Dragon
2x Wingmate Roc
2x Valorous Stance
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Xenagos, the Reveler
2x Back to Nature
2x Citadel Siege
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x End Hostilities
2x Glare of Heresy
1x Nissa, Worldwaker
1x Plummet
2x Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker
The mana base I'm using is
1 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Island
2 Mountain
2 Mana Confluence
3 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Nomad Outpost
2 Mystic Monastery
1 Temple of Epiphany
3 Shivan Reef
1 Battlefield Forge
I'll let you know. Due to other commitments, I won't be able to get in proper testing until next week at the earliest, but will probably be able to have a couple of fun games.
With this, are you taking into account the sideboard of stuff like Anger? If not, how would you go about doing that? I'm not great with the maths side of things :D.
I'm honestly very curious as to this and will probably be testing it out in the next week or so, I'll have to find more Ephphany's and Confluences though..
I've been playing Hordeling + Roc for at least 1.5 months and have had barely any issues. I'm playing 25 land and still occasionally get stuck on 4, after drawing a couple of Rocs and i think I've been stuck with 1 red twice. (also board Anger and Hostilities).
I'm so glad to see that for once, I wasn't behind the times lol.
I'm glad someone else is having success with Hordeling! Surprisingly it's helped my Azban matchup a little (due to how well it works with blocking the Rhino when you have Charm, which happens more often than you'd think...).
I'd love some feedback, whether good or bad. It's in early development, so it's a bit off atm (I feel it is). I took some ideas from the Mardu decks and tried to incorporate it into Jeskai colours.
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Mantis Rider
2 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Wingmate Roc
2 Sarkhan the Dragonspeaker
4 Hordeling Outburst
2 Dig Through Time
3 Jeskai Charm
3 Stoke the Flames
4 Lightning Strike
2 Magma Jet
3 Shivan Reef
2 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
2 Island
3 Mountain
4 Mystic Monastery
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Enlightenment
1 Temple of Epiphany
1x Chandra, Pyromaster
2x Erase
2x Purphoros, God of the Forge
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Ashcloud Phoenix
2x Deflecting Palm
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x End Hostilities
Hordeling has been amazing (but debating on using Raise the Alarm instead to lower the curve a little, but then I'll lose synergy with Rabble), as have Wingmates
I'm not sold on 2 Keranos in the main, but when he's dropped, unless there is an answer, my winrate is above 85% and the game is usually done if he sticks around for 2-3 draws.
I would like to fit in a couple of counterspells into the board, but not sure if I should
I would like to fit in some non damage related removal (Banishing or similar), but not sure here either
I've decided to try out a Mardu Midrange and I was wondering if you I could grab some feedback. Everything is basically theory right now. Unfortunately I don't have Wingmate's and didn't know where to fit in Ashclouds (also only have 3 Thoughtseize).
3 Temple of Silence
1 Temple of Triumph
2 Temple of Malice
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Battlefield Forge
3 Caves of Koilos
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Butcher of the Horde
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Crackling Doom
3 Thoughtseize
3 Mardu Charm
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Banishing Light
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Stoke the Flames
3 Lightning Strike
1 Utter End
1 Deflecting Palm
2 Empty The Pits
2 Despise
1 Erase
2 End Hostilities
2 Nyx-Fleece Ram
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
1 Hero's Downfall
The only weird choice mainboard that I can see is Deflecting Palm, that's just a 'tribute' to all the green based midrange in the area (would be a Roc if I had one). I also eyeballed the mana, but in test hands it seems ok so far.
R1 vs Mardu
Smash him G1, I misplayed on T4 in G2 and that lost me the game and I flooded out in G3
R2 vs UWR Control
He mana screwed G1 and flooded G2
R3 vs Mardu
Couldn't find a white mana to save myself and lost on T9 (kept a 3 land hand) and G2 was he just killed everything that I could play and I flooded out on about T7
R4 vs Azban
Lost a really close G1 (who the hell mains Arbor Colossus?), won G2 easily (T2 Seeker, T3 Seeker T4 Suspension and counter the Rhino) and G3 I flooded.
tl;dr
Played 10 games, flooded/mana screwed in 5, won 4 of the others
Hushwing was really meh and I didn't like it. Not even that much in the Azban matchup.
I'd probably do -1 Ashcloud -1 Light for 2 Digs. That said, this is probably what I'll test tonight for games day tomorrow.
My meta is basically rogue (Mono-R, Hydras, Sultai Delve and a couple of MBA) and Siege Rhino.
Here's what the CFB guys played for a total record of 29-26-1. Here's the article I'm referencing (~halfway down the page).
2 x Island
1 x Plains
3 x Flooded Strand
4 x Mystic Monastery
2 x Temple of Epiphany
3 x Temple of Triumph
3 x Battlefield Forge
3 x Shivan Reef
4 x Mantis Rider
4 x Hushwing Gryff
3 x Ashcloud Phoenix
2 x Stormbreath Dragon
4 x Magma Jet
4 x Lightning Strike
4 x Jeskai Charm
4 x Stoke the Flames
3 x Banishing Light
2 x Anger of the Gods
3 x Disdainful Stroke
1 x Gainsay
3 x Prognostic Sphinx
3 x Suspension Field
Hughwing Thoughts
We had Hushwing Gryff instead of Goblin Rabblemaster in the main deck. We liked the flier better for three reasons:
First, it shuts down Siege Rhino, Wingmate Roc, Nylea's Disciple, and Hornet Queen, which would otherwise be very problematic for Jeskai. Other relevant enters-the-battlefield triggers in Standard include Doomwake Giant, Reclamation Sage, and Eidolon of Blossoms.
Second, it has flying. When everyone has Sylvan Caryatid, Courser of Kruphix, Siege Rhino, Polukranos, and so on, it is very hard for ground creatures like Goblin Rabblemaster to get in, but evasive creatures happily fly over.
Third, flash means that it plays very well with all of the instant-speed cards in the deck. If your opponent casts a card worth countering or burning, you just do that, and play the Gryff otherwise.
So, it is just very well positioned in the format, and most people who played the deck were happy with their choice of Gryff over Rabblemaster.
Ashcloud Thoughts
We ran this over Dig Through Time. Both cards have utility as late-game mana sinks, but Ashcloud Phoenix is a great on-curve evasive threat that is great in a damage race. It excels in the mirror match and against decks with lots of removal.
We were actually expecting more Ashcloud Phoenix in the Pro Tour because the card was performing quite well in testing, so we ran 3 Banishing Light in the main deck and 3 Magma Spray in the sideboard to fight it. In hindsight, Ashcloud Phoenix was not as popular, so Suspension Field or Nullify might have been better in the main deck and Dig Through Time might have been better in the sideboard.
Nullify Thoughts
Team ChannelFireball ran this card in their Jeskai deck, and I like it a lot. There are so many great 3+ mana cards in the format that it's hard to find an edge there, but you can get an edge by running 2-mana cards that can still trade up in the late-game. Nullify fits that criterion admirably. It might require a bit of a retooling of the mana base, but that may very well be worth it.
My thoughts on this are:
I find it interesting that there is no Sarkhan. It seems the pro white > indestructible currently. I agree with the prevalence of white that is in the meta.
Very monster heavy, as opposed to a majority of this thread.
No Digs - I found this very interesting. Ashcloud was run over them.