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  • 1

    posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (Rules Update 27/10/17)
    Quote from Vissah »
    Quote from thnkr »
    @Vissah, The problem with this statement...

    I think we all should agree that when a format has a thread going that is called the sate of Modern and it fills up with thousands of post the format is far from healthy and perfect.


    ...is that it assumes that there is only one explanation for the "thousands of posts", and that it assumes that all (or the majority) of those posts are criticisms of the format. There are other explanations that can exist. Simply because some number of vocal people complain about something doesn't mean that their complaints are justified.

    On that note, I think it would likely benefit those of us who actually want to participate in a constructive analysis of the format and game if a new pinned thread were created for doing just that - Complainers can have their own thread.


    It`s just a way of speech mate nothing more nothing less. Thousand of posts looks better then a couple posts right?
    I know it is a group of people who like to complain but hey even if you get your own `constructive analysis` thread you really think complainers won`t follow you there?

    Anyway I also see that some people share the same thought as me. I loved Modern when I started it and I played it a lot but the last time it is like I said before starting to feel more and more like a lotery.
    I play Dredge in Legacy and Modern and I know I have my bad matchups in Legacy as well but they don`t feel like an instant loss. I feel and I know that I still have a chance of winning those with some tight play and sometimes a little but of luck.
    I share your exact sentiment. How a game feels for many players cannot Be dismissed by anyone on here. Especially when thaycannot mathematically disprove this current statement on modern.

    Enjoy legacy man its a great format, I wish I had the coin to join.

    And thanks for being open minded and seeing both sides of the argument.

    It's rare to find that in a person it seems on this inbred forum,Ruled by a few.
    Suspension issued for spamming the forum. -- CavalryWolfPack
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (Rules Update 27/10/17)
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »
    Quote from idSurge »
    Those 'free wins' are what determine are the best decks in the format however. 'Fair Magic' is not what most high end players look for in a deck. This was commonly being discussed on twitter months and months ago.
    this is the core of my issue.

    Modern needs to be less broken Imo. Otherwise it's a Game of who can play the more broken deck.


    Is thoughtsieze broken? No

    Is snappy broken? No

    Is Bolt broken? No

    Push? No
    Is a turn 2-3 1 mana 8/8 broken? Yes

    Is a turn 3 karn broken? Yes

    Is dumping your entire affinity hand pretty much making it impossible for the opponent to catch up broken? Yes

    Is a Turn 2 tks or reality smasher broken? Yes


    Is a turn 4 grapeshot lethal broken? Hell yes




    People will say: but it's a small percentage that happens.
    But combined with all the decks it happens more than I feel is healthy. Not to mention highroll magic is not a test of skill but rather a test of luck in which you pretty much auto lose that game no matter how good the answers are.



    Well, yeah if they could make modern less broken we would probably all be happier. The trouble is that they basically can't without invalidating everyones current multi-hundred dollar deck that is literally only propped up by the fact that they have some metric of performance.
    I don't mean the weaker ones though. I mean the more powerful ones, the ones That I feel are what hurt modern Imo.

    Quote from Vissah »
    I think we all should agree that when a format has a thread going that is called the sate of Modern and it fills up with thousands of post the format is far from healthy and perfect.
    I started playing Legacy because I just got sick of Modern being, for a big part, a lottery on what deck you are facing and more of a sideboard battle.
    I got days when I get my good matchups and stomp everyone and other days, even when my deck is working for me, I got the bad matchups and just get completely stomped.
    Of course I know that a deck should not have good matchups or 50/50 matchups against the whole field but in Modern the difference is just to big if you ask me.

    Also the constant complaining about what to ban, when to ban it and waht and when to unban it has pushed me away from Modern. Don`t get me wrong Legacy is also not perfect but there is a lot less complaining going on in that format. People just play the game and they are having fun doing it.

    I been playing Modern since the first year it started, wich was also the first time I started playing Magic so I been through a lot of meta`s and chanced and you name it.

    But I also noticed that if Legacy was more easily accecable and cheaper Modern would not even be discussed like this.
    I too feel like legacy is way better than modern(not because it's blue dominated)

    But because with the top decks I can, with skill, have a game against anyone, And so can they.
    Unfortunately legacy is dead in attendance in my region,and unfortunately it's also way to expensive.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 2

    posted a message on The State of Modern Thread (Rules Update 27/10/17)
    Quote from thnkr »
    Did you see that part that I underlined where I asked you to give specific decklists and specific percentage points of the metagame you think those decklists should occupy?

    EDIT:
    So, my question is, what specific decks do you think should comprise the metagame, and at what exact percentages? And when I say specific decks, I'm looking for specific examples of a decklist. Being vague here only serves as a cop-out for doing actual work. Additionally, which of those decks would you be choosing to play? There is one more follow-up question, in the request that you actually playtest those decks against eachother, at least in double-digit numbers of matches, and provide the data (in a manner that everyone else can check), so that everyone can be sure that those percentages are realistic for each deck in the metagame.
    how the hell can I ask such a thing from a game?

    Yea I want jund to be exactly 8 percent of the meta and burn 6 affinity 7.

    No one cannot answer that. Noone can. I've provided you with my answer. I can't make it any clearer.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from gkourou »
    Quote from rcwraspy »
    Quote from rcwraspy »


    What a bunch of nonsense. ET is Shadow's prey? Do you really believe that? That matchup is close to 50/50, and I actually feel slightly favored tbh. Not sure why you'd post about things like this when you have no idea what you are talking about.
    "Your post doesn't comport with my own anecdotal personal experience so you must have no idea what you're talking about." ROFL.


    Go ask on the ET forum if ET is prey to GDS. Seriously.
    why would i ask 20 biased people when i can instead rely on actual data?


    I don't have data from >100 games, but I can easily tell you that I would rather play Grixis Shadow than any control or midrange deck when I am up against Eldra Tron. (matchup seems about even to me, though and if they go turn 1 relic of progenitus life is very hard)

    Edit: you are both kind of right.
    Eldra Tron pushes people away from playing Control or Midrange decks and into playing Shadow, because it's better vs it than playing any other control or midrange deck. That's the reason why Eldrazi Temple should be hit, since it warps the format that way.
    But the matchup still is about even.

    I have no doubt in my mind that temple should be banned, but if its hit without death shadow wouldn't death shadow dominate even more?

    I almost feel like they would both have to go.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Not only that Probe was a good ban(which admittedly thought it was unneccesary back then) but it could also be banned in Legacy before seeing the light of Modern again. The criteria WOTC used for the ban was correct and a good understanding of the effect Gitaxian Probe presents on formats. It really does too much for too litlle cost.
    Cfusion is right that Probe wasn't particularly problematic before Become Immense, but after KTK, it clearly reached its full potential and became problematic in 2016, when 3 Top Tier decks where using it to kill on T3 consistently through disruption, and all 3 where basically a different flavor of the same deck.

    Control is certainly in a good spot right now(because of Death's Shadow). The metagame is being kind to it and its taking advantage. I still believe a pure reactive deck like the UW that took the Classic yesterday can't really Top 8 the GP without major help from the matchup roulette.

    It will be really interesting to see how WOTC handles the format come Pro Tour Rivals of Ixalan. I still believe they can ban Shadow/Wraith and no one will be surprised. Against a format completely adapted to it, it still puts several copies in the Top 8. I guess it doesn't do it by comboing so that's good.

    EDIT:Correcting spelling mistakes.
    hopefully they do some shake up's for the pro tour, This format is getting stale Wink


    A temple Ban alongside an SFM unban would do wonders for this format Imo.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from genini2 »
    So it sounds like diversity is the same as it has always been or at least generally there. My own anecdotal evidence is otherwise, but that's why we don't use anecdotal evidence. What I don't understand is what this is supposed to mean good or bad for anyone. The format is just as diverse as it always has been which means that it should be just as difficult or easy to sideboard or metagame. Which means, at least in my opinion, the format used to be good and still is.
    and this is why tires are spinning. Because whether modern is good or not is in a big way : a matter of opinion.

    Some have Thier qualms while others think it's amazing.

    And either side will argue why the other is wrong, Both with good points.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    Quote from gkourou »
    Modern Challenge, 3 Sept. 2017 Metagame Breakdown

    Link: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-challenge-2017-09-03

    Winner: Eldrazi And Taxes
    Runner-Up: Jeskai Control (Draw-Go)

    6-1:
    Naya Kiki Chord: 1
    B/W Smallpox: 1
    Titanshift: 1
    Grixis Shadow: 1
    Burn: 1
    Death and Taxes: 1

    5-2:
    Affinity: 3
    Lantern Prison: 2
    UW Control: 2
    Abzan Midrange: 2
    Jeskai Control: 1
    Grixis Shadow: 1
    Bant Knightfall: 1
    D&T: 1
    UR Storm: 1
    UR Kiki Exarch: 1
    Abzan Devoted Company: 1
    RG Ponza: 1
    Amulet Titan: 1

    4-3:
    Titanshift: 4
    UW Control: 2
    UR Storm: 1
    UR TTB-Emrakul: 1

    Results like these really undermine a lot of the Modern critics' arguments. Indeed, almost all the recent Modern data undermines their arguments, which is why most of the posts identifying Modern problems tend to avoid citing data and tourney finishes.

    I do agree with an earlier poster that Modern would benefit from reducing its dependence on sideboard answers to win games. This is just another way of saying Modern needs more generic answers, which I think most people here agree it does. But on the scale of format problema, that's like a 3-4 on a scale of 1-10. Many of the critics treat it as a 9-10, which just isn't warranted when you actually look at the results from past months. Because it's only a 3-4, I'm comfortable waiting for those answers to naturally trickle into the format from Standard; play design has made it clear they will keep coming.
    while this is true it would be nice if we didnt have to wait years. I think that many of us complainers have been patient. even though it hasn't been a quiet patience.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Even though when I specifically said "minus the blue dominance" and better "hosers" and "generic hate".

    Really?

    With the things I'm asking modern would not be legacy. It would be a better modern...


    If that's what you disagree with that than good for you. We will never agree on this.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from BlueTronFTW »
    Quote from jwf239 »


    Matchup roulette is a part of any format ever though. Not sure what you're getting at with this post. You made it to top 4 and lost from a judge call, don't see how that is the fault of matchups. And winning 3 PPTQs in 3 seasons could've just been a good streak, now followed by a not so good one in this season. After all, I'm sure there are other players nearly or more prepared than you are in attendance also. You can't all win first place.

    My point is that it is amplified in Modern. No, nobody can always win first place, but there are players who win a PPTQ every season. Many probably play in more GPs and try to stay on the train. I'm probably not good enough to do that, but I still have super high expectations for myself. I'll be more specific then. Players who have beaten me at the PPTQs are players that I have beaten at least a little bit in the past. Don't get me wrong. They've practiced a bunch too and have probably improved their play skill much more than I have in that time, but I still feel that I have the skill advantage quite often. Yet, it doesn't matter quite as much in Modern.

    My point mainly is that people are quick to dismiss what sisicat is saying. Nothing is Black and White. There is a lot of truth to what he's getting at. Now, I don't think that something drastic or dramatic should happen. But I do think letting consistency tools back into the format like Preordain and Green Sun's Zenith can alleviate a little bit of it without shaking the boat much.


    But you are at least making a reasonable argument of a spikey nature. sisicat literally said he wants a pay to win option in modern, and that's worth a bit of laughter.
    no he doesn't. That's strawmanning and you know it.

    He wants games to have less matchup variance like legacy has, minus the blue dominance. Which is possible with a plethora of positives this format could use.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from Pokken »
    I think depths would be likely to just create a better combo control deck than we've seen in modern, which would not be healthy. But I love the card and wouldn't mind seeing it given a try eventually.

    The issue with depths really is more that we don't have decent land hate (see the last 27 pages).

    we need fair cards unbanned. this format already has enough linear/unfair decks.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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