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Treasure Cruisin' with Azorius Titan
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    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from Skitzafreak »
    First off, put some effort in and multi-quote. Instead of making like 6 different posts. Makes this thread a lot easier to go through honestly.

    Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »
    This format has too much big mana and linear decks. All some people want is a better archtype balance.


    If we list off the top decks of the format right now we have Eldrazi Tron, Grixis Shadow, Affinity, UR Gifts Storm, Titanshift, and maybe Burn.

    2 of those decks are big mana (Eldrazi Tron & Titanshift)
    2 of them are linear strategies (Burn & Affinity)
    1 is a Combo deck (UR Gifts Storm)
    1 is a Tempo Control/Midrange deck (Grixis Shadow)

    If you go to MTGGoldfish and check those deck's meta share (which is honestly our best metric to track the meta right now unless you have a better one) those 6 decks together total 35.85% of the metagame.

    The problem decks you mention (big mana and linear strategies) 24.34%. So less than a quarter of the meta is decks you are saying are a problem. Meaning a little more than 75% of the meta isn't these problem decks. So please explain to me know we need better archetype balance in Modern at this moment.
    an entire quarter of the meta is big mana...

    What are the other archtypes representing?

    Suspension issued for spamming the forum. -- CavalryWolfPack
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from Drekavac »
    Not sure what the unban euphoria is about; even if they unbanned both Stoneforge and BBE right now those decks would still fold to the ET deck big time. If you think that's not warping enough of an effect on ETs part then more power to you I guess.

    The white decks like Death and Taxes that would benefit from Stoneforge Mystic are already favored vs Eldrazi Tron.

    Not all the decks that might play Bloodbraid Elf "fold big time" to ET now, especially GBx Shadow, which is about 50/50. It's true that ET is an unfavorable matchup for non-Shadow Jund, and BBE would help there. Would it be enough to even the odds? Hard to say, but it wouldn't hurt, and you certainly don't know the answer.

    Honestly, you are coming across as a troll at this point. All of your arguments show a lack of understanding of the meta. I'm skeptical that you even play the format competitively. I recommend educating yourself more before posting all these strong opinions.
    but he has a good point. If we got SFM bbe or Jace and they still didn't do too well in modern. We would than have to ask why this is....
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from idSurge »
    Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »
    Quote from idSurge »
    On the flip side, this what the thread devolves to if there are no fundamentally broken decks.

    At this point, everything in Modern at the top outside of UW and UWR, are cheating resources.

    That, is Modern.

    (I'm just playing Doomfist and punching people right now.)
    maybe that Is the problem with modern. And it's balance between fair and unfair?


    Well I dont think its a problem, I think its just a fact of the format. If you are not doing unfair things and cheating on some resource, you are not top level competitive in most cases.

    I've been saying this for years. Modern is the format where you must be doing something that cheats a resource or is in some way broken 90% of the time. That 10% is decks like Burn, Jund/k, Merfolk, UW/R Control, and the like that are stopping said cheats by one of two ways. (I may be completely off base here, but I would rather know I'm wrong and change that then keep bumbling around in the dark)
    1) Being faster than everything else
    2) Shutting it down/grinding out
    Even if you are doing one of these two things, you won't always win against something unfair -- it's why it's called "unfair" in the first place. It's ground rule of the format at this point: there is nothing that could happen outside of mass-bannings that could change this.
    I dont think it would take mass bannings to balance things. That combined with unbans I feel would suffice.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from idSurge »
    Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »
    Quote from idSurge »
    On the flip side, this what the thread devolves to if there are no fundamentally broken decks.

    At this point, everything in Modern at the top outside of UW and UWR, are cheating resources.

    That, is Modern.

    (I'm just playing Doomfist and punching people right now.)
    maybe that Is the problem with modern. And it's balance between fair and unfair?


    Well I dont think its a problem, I think its just a fact of the format. If you are not doing unfair things and cheating on some resource, you are not top level competitive in most cases.
    this acceptance is my qualms with some of the players of modern. But I guess we are all entitled to an opinion.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Agreed. If wizards would give us SFM Jace bbe ect it would be a great move.

    But if they won't/dont I'd suggest a ban.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from idSurge »
    On the flip side, this what the thread devolves to if there are no fundamentally broken decks.

    At this point, everything in Modern at the top outside of UW and UWR, are cheating resources.

    That, is Modern.

    (I'm just playing Doomfist and punching people right now.)
    maybe that Is the problem with modern. And it's balance between fair and unfair?
    Infraction issued for spamming. -- CavalryWolfPack
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    There is no dominant deck in Modern right now. None! The meta is perfectly balanced with a half dozen decks being somewhere between 5-7% of the meta and another 12 decks being between 2-4% of the meta. That leaves something like 25% of the meta for rogue decks. You could not get a better meta for a format if you intentionally designed it that way. We should all remember this moment for all history. I don't think any format has ever had so many viable decks all at once. Ever!
    the meta is perfectly balanced? Give me numbers on archtype and colour prevalence to prove this.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from Drekavac »
    Quote from Skitzafreak »
    Quote from Drekavac »
    To make myself clear: ET is the only problem card in E-Tron. I'm almost certain the deck could work without it and be good enough without kicking all the other midrange decks into tier 4 territory.


    So how would you feel if they banned Eldrazi Temple and unbanned Eye of Ugin?

    Because honestly, I feel that if you ban Temple, then Eldrazi Tron just becomes a worse Tron deck then your standard R/G or B/G Tron list.


    Both cards needed to get banned.

    Not sure about it then being a bad tron deck. TKS is still a card and adding Ancient Stirrings to a deck like this doesn't exactly make it worse.For one thing it would open up space for different eldrazi decks (Gx mostly).


    I don't think you even understand Eldrazi Tron, Gx Tron, how/why they work, or their place in the meta.
    do you? I don't really see anything good that they do for this format.

    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from Spsiegel1987 »
    My bad, I looked up the history, you didn't complain about aggro,

    you just want combo and big mana out of the format so you can play your favorite decks with fewer weaknesses

    You specifically listed Dredge and UR Storm a lot in your complaints, and wrote you're tired of flavor of the month decks and haven't played or enjoyed much modern since Eldrazi Winter.

    As much as I hate big mana decks, midrange needs it's checks and balances, too.

    Going by your history, you really just want fair decks in modern, and want combo and big mana pushed out so that you can enjoy "quality matches".

    People can look on page 1 and page 2 of your history, in case it seems like I'm cherrypicking your words.

    Sounds like modern really isn't for you if you dislike all these busted things being done.
    less of it. Not none of it..

    Why do you strawman soo much?

    This format has too much big mana and linear decks. All some people want is a better archtype balance.

    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    How does one attack ETron? Other than "hope they stumble" or "damage race," what can decks actually do? Mind you that, as I mentioned last page, answers like Ceremonious Rejection are handled by their 4x, main deck Chalice of the Void. Hitting their lands doesn't really hurt them, all their creatures are hugely-advantageous 2-for-1s, they pack one-sided board wipes that get rid of all your non-land permanents, they have access to tons of graveyard hate, countermagic for sorceries, additional board wipes, and a top end that nobody can compete with, all with a pain-free manabase that gets to run multiple sol lands and utility lands at no detriment to color fixing.

    Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like when this deck loses, it's only because it loses to itself or to an explosive hand out of a hyper aggro deck.
    and this is exactly what I've been saying. The deck is not healthy for this format in the top tiers...
    then again neither is valakut. but since Thier metashares aren't oppressive they will stay, and we will have to keep
    playing:"race/linear" the gathering.

    It alludes me why people enjoy this... But I'm only a minority so what do I know?
    Posted in: Modern
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from KTROJAN »
    Quote from Drekavac »
    Some thoughts come to mind after this Open.

    I'm personally happy that all the storm decks that reached day 2 ended up in the top 16. I don't remember that the deck ever had such a good conversion rate.

    On the other hand that exact number demonstrates what kind of an effect E-Tron has on the format. By pushing out all the other midrange decks the format is down to linear racing. There is no other way to explain storm's and affinity's numbers on day 2.

    This effect, I feel, will become more apparent in the next month or so but I don't think I'm being overly paranoid when I say WotC needs to finish the job they've started when they banned Eye of Ugin (by banning Eldrazi Temple) unless they want a repeat of the last Modern PT.

    It wouldn't be a repeat though because there are other decks viable. Eldrazi aggro pushed everything out of the format not just other midrange decks.


    True. but its still unhealthy as it is now.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from Zorakkiller »
    quick top 32 breakdown

    Eldrazi Tron-4
    Gifts Storm-4
    Titan Shift-3
    Grixis Death Shadow-3
    Burn-3
    Jeskai Control-2
    Affinity-2
    Counters Company-2
    Dredge-2
    Merfolk-1
    Slivers-1
    B/W Eldrazi taxes-1
    B/B Tron-1
    G/W Company-1
    Ad Nauseam -1
    Amulet Titan-1

    lots of big mana and storm


    gross..
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from KTROJAN »
    Quote from Zorakkiller »
    Quote from KTROJAN »
    Quote from Zorakkiller »
    Quote from Albegas »
    Not sure if you know this, but when the term "shake up ban" is used, it's used almost exclusively to refer to the situation you just described. To answer your question, I can't speak for everyone but I sure as heck don't want any deck I play hit just to make things "more interesting" nor would I wish that onto other people. If the deck I'm playing is unhealthy for the meta (too much meta presence, T4 rule violator, etc.) fine, but if I wanted top decks to get nerfed just for the sake of artificially changing the meta to make things interesting I'd still be playing Yu-Gi-Oh.


    Re read what I wrote I was suggesting shake up unbans. To touch on what you said though bans are and integral part of modern and have been since it's inception. It really doesn't matter if people don't like their decks being banned this is modern and it is what happens. Bannings, new cards and meta shift all can make someone's deck unplayable and they are gone a have to live with that. It's also not like people don't know that banning are a huge part of modern, just look at what dominates modern discussions. Players don't have a right to play a certian deck and if your deck gets banned or becomes unplayable well too bad so sad


    It's very rare that a new card or an unban will make a deck unplayable. Plenty of people play t3 decks and have fun doing so. Bans however do make decks unplayable and that's why most people prefer to not see them.


    I understand why people don't like bans. my point is modern is a format centered around bans. you wouldn't complain about swimming because it makes your wet. If you don't like bans modern isn't the format for you

    You need water to swim you don't need bans to play modern. Horrible analogy imo. Modern isn't centered around bans by any means, nor would wotc want any format to be centered around bans. I'm sorry I just don't agree with that at all.
    "if you dont like bans modern isnt for you" Is actually true though.

    As long as new cards are printed, and answers remain the way they are. Bans will always be a possibility.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 1

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »
    Quote from KTROJAN »
    Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »
    Quote from KTROJAN »
    Ld is better vs valakut decks so honestly every color has some form of hate to play if the did really want to.


    I wouldn't say the hate is that great. otherwise Jund would be higher up wouldn't it? dont they have access to 4 fulminators out of the sb?

    and shouldn't big mana be hurting right now? the rest of the meta is pretty much either hating on it or playing fast linear decks. and it is still 1/3 of the top tiers. if midrange and control decks MUST have very poor matchups like some preach in here, than where are those matchups vs big mana? they clearly aren't that effective or the same thing would be happening to big mana as it has to jund.....

    By this January imo its either time we ban something like temple or we give players better hosers vs these types of decks.


    You need to decide if you're talking about valakut decks or big mana tron type decks. Valakut decks are ramp decks and yes fulminator can be just fine vs them. If you want to beat a valakut deck you easily can the same as most other decks. The only deck imo that isn't easily hated with sb cards is eldrazi tron. I don't think the deck is an issue but it is the hardest in general to find sb cards to fight it.

    Jund got replaced by another jundy deck in dsx that's all and we already discussed why a couple pages back.

    Also by January control will have scuttle the wreckage to go with the rest of its hate vs drazi tron. Control imo does have the best matchup vs drazi tron.


    im talking about tron eldrazi and valakut. beacuse they all have the same effect on fair decks.

    jund got replaced because it was no longer good in an eldrazi meta. its ok if you have 1-2 very bad matchups but when you add a couple others its just too much. and valakut is very rough for jund aswell, even after sideboard. fulminators clearly are not enough in this meta.


    its good uw is holding up. but for how long?


    Jund got replaced because Fatal Push killed its best creatures, Lightning Bolt doesn't do squat anymore without Snapcaster Mage, and Deathrite Shaman and Bloodbraid Elf are banned. WotC wanted to nerf Jund, and well, they did. The Eldrazi played only the smallest role. Fatal Push is the real culprit. Which is fine. Grixis can be the midrange deck colors now. It's not a big deal.
    jund runs fatal push
    and does 50/50 vs grixis shadow..... so I dont agree with that reasoning.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Quote from KTROJAN »
    Quote from xxhellfirexx3 »
    Quote from KTROJAN »
    Ld is better vs valakut decks so honestly every color has some form of hate to play if the did really want to.


    I wouldn't say the hate is that great. otherwise Jund would be higher up wouldn't it? dont they have access to 4 fulminators out of the sb?

    and shouldn't big mana be hurting right now? the rest of the meta is pretty much either hating on it or playing fast linear decks. and it is still 1/3 of the top tiers. if midrange and control decks MUST have very poor matchups like some preach in here, than where are those matchups vs big mana? they clearly aren't that effective or the same thing would be happening to big mana as it has to jund.....

    By this January imo its either time we ban something like temple or we give players better hosers vs these types of decks.


    You need to decide if you're talking about valakut decks or big mana tron type decks. Valakut decks are ramp decks and yes fulminator can be just fine vs them. If you want to beat a valakut deck you easily can the same as most other decks. The only deck imo that isn't easily hated with sb cards is eldrazi tron. I don't think the deck is an issue but it is the hardest in general to find sb cards to fight it.

    Jund got replaced by another jundy deck in dsx that's all and we already discussed why a couple pages back.

    Also by January control will have scuttle the wreckage to go with the rest of its hate vs drazi tron. Control imo does have the best matchup vs drazi tron.


    im talking about tron eldrazi and valakut. beacuse they all have the same effect on fair decks.

    jund got replaced because it was no longer good in an eldrazi meta. its ok if you have 1-2 very bad matchups but when you add a couple others its just too much. and valakut is very rough for jund aswell, even after sideboard. fulminators clearly are not enough in this meta.


    its good uw is holding up. but for how long?
    Posted in: Modern
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