I Just wanted to chime in and say that I've had some really good success recently, winning a couple of Thursday Night Magics and Friday Night Magics. This is the core of the deck that I run, usually switching out a card here or there to test until something really sticks.
With my mono green deck, I use fetches. I have just a pair of mountains, and that can be quite significant to me to get the off color lands to do what I need outside of the main color. Other than that, I really don't worry about fetches except in the cases of aggressive mana fixing.
If that's your opinion, then that's your opinion. Until more 2cmc removal comes out, I will rock the Master and rock him hard. He's just too good against too many decks. I'll take that chance.
Why is 2 mana important? He's a 3 drop and 3 mana removal is fast enough even if they're on the draw. With very few relevant cards costing 1 mana it's not like they'd even make use out of the other mana. The fact that the removal is worse and all costs 3 mana is actually irrelevant for how it lines up with Master of the Feast.
When your opponent casts Hero's downfall on your Master during your upkeep he has just cast a spell that reads 1BB: Destroy target creature, Draw a card] That's an insane card.
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So you must not think that Polukranos, Stormbreath Dragon, any planeswalker, etc is worth playing because it "dies to hero's downfall"? One card drawn off a killed master isn't going to lose me the game, and if it does then I had already lost the game before I cast him.
In terms of Master of the Feast; I think it's incorrect to compare it to Desecration Demon. DD saw play because despite the ability to negate it, it still resulted in a loss of board presence for the opponent. So in essence, whilst he could just sit there tapped down forever, he has traded his vegetated state in exchange for removing their creatures. MotF is nowhere close to that. He has the obligatory big body for low CMC that Necropotent beaters have but his drawback is abusable to a far higher degree. Tapping down DD isn't a 2-for-1 against the DD user - in fact it might be a 2-for-1 for the DD user; however a bonus draw followed by removal before MotF can attack is most definitely a 2-for-1 against the MotF user.
Whilst I am not sure whether its correct or incorrect to leave out Master; I definitely have huge reservations on him and will most likely use 0-2 of him until I know the metagame better. I don't beleive this is an issue to get aggressive about with one another as there is genuine cause for concern in using MotF as i stated above in relation to previous big demons; whilst there is also the upside of an evasive 5/5 on T3 in a slower standard format.
Just as a note, whilst not amazing cards in a vacuum, I'm finding myself very very attached to the Pain Seer + Boon of Erebos interaction in a metagame of Coursers and Caryatids. So much so, that I can't see myself playing a list without this 'you-need-to-play-around-me-interaction' unless Courser and Caryatid become rare occurrences.
Then why wasn't DD played when Innistrad standard was going on? Same with Pack Rat. They only saw play when other things rotated. That's my comparison. Because of the change to standard and the loss of answers to a Master, that's why I choose to play it. No Ultimate Price, Dread Bore, Abrupt Decay etc. There's so much less removal, that I believe he'll shine (regardless of his drawback).
And for comparison, I recently top 8'd a 65 man FNM with 3 copies of Master in my main. Went undefeated and saw a variety of standard decks last week. MBD, MGD, the "affinity" deck, Esper Control, Rabble Red, and something else.. I forget. Even with all the removal, I was able to play him successfully.
What do you do if you cast Master of the Feast and your opponent responds with an Arbor Colossus(Gr devotion is one of the baseline decks of the week 0 format) and you don't have one of your 0-4 removal spells in your entire deck that answers it? I don't like randomly losing the game, that's a really huge drawback. I like stable reliable decks that give me a chance to leverage comparitive skill advantage over a wide range of opponents and decks.
So in essence you won't play one of the most powerful standard cards right now because of AC? Who, when played in green devotion decks, are only played as a 1 of?
If that's your opinion, then that's your opinion. Until more 2cmc removal comes out, I will rock the Master and rock him hard. He's just too good against too many decks. I'll take that chance.
Some people are playing far too many 3 Casting Cost cards. I don't think you can play more than about 12 and ideally it would be less than that.
I also don't understand why people want to play Master of the Feast maindeck, it's really bad against a lot of decks, saw very little maindeck play in the successful block decks and saw basically no play in the Standard decks of last season that were prizing on MTGO.
Ok, I have to respond because I've been a huge supporter of MotF and I've played it for awhile to really test it out. So...
People play Master in the main because it's a FOUR TURN CLOCK WITH EVASION. I feel like a broken record here. It's like asking "Why are you playing Desecration Demon when you can tap him down so easily". DUH. It is NOT really bad against a lot of decks, in fact last standard it was bad against 2 decks. And even one of those I left him in and didn't side out. Also, how do we know what decks he's bad or good against seeing as how the "new" standard hasn't even started yet? This Friday we'll see some new decks, but it's far too early to tell.
Honestly, it boils down to new players not liking self life loss, or giving the opponent something like card advantage. Necropotence; why would I skip my draw step and lose life? You're over looking the power of Master and only focusing on it's negative, which I believe after playing and testing and winning with him that his power FAR outweighs his disadvantage.
Also, MTGO is not an indicator of what is good and what gets played. Apples and Oranges, and honestly only the Apples (paper) really matter.
Master is really bad against any midrange or control decks that uses a lot of instant speed removal. You can't just allow yourself to get 2 for 1'd so easily. If there weren't lots of good 3 casting cost cards he might be maindeckable but that's not the case. You're also much more likely to just get people postboard since they're likely to board out some of the clunkier removal spells(the ones that hit master) for bile blights, searing spears, magma jets, drown in sorrow etc.
Also I am not a new player. I have been playing mtg a reasonable amount of time and I would be willing to bet vastly more successful at the game than you, So take a check on the condecension next time. Also writing your points in capitals doesn't make them less wrong/irrelevant.
MTGO meta tends to be incredibly well developed and generally well ahead of things like the SCG open series. It is the best indicator of deck trends available generally.
How am I getting 2 for 1'd if they use one removal spell to remove my one creature?
I use capitals to stress my emotion because in real life, that's how passionately I speak about things I feel strongly about.
And I'll disagree with you all day about paper vs MTGO. It isn't the same, not even close.
Also, you can be the world's best player and still be wrong about lots of things. Please explain to me how a 5/5 flier for 3cmc is a bad play.
[quote from="DekuTheEvilClown »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-deck-creation/548048-mono-black-aggro?comment=1234"]
Honestly, it boils down to new players not liking self life loss, or giving the opponent something like card advantage. Necropotence; why would I skip my draw step and lose life? You're over looking the power of Master and only focusing on it's negative, which I believe after playing and testing and winning with him that his power FAR outweighs his disadvantage.
This is exactly why I think Master is being overlooked, not only by the people playing MBA but also the people who are trying to assess the upcoming meta.
Travis Woo put in perfectly in his Brewing with Journey Into Nyx article :
"Simply put, Master of the Feast gives cards for tempo. This much is obvious. It’s a great tempo play. It’s a bad card advantage play. Generally when we are working with cards like this, we want to surround them with other strong tempo plays and just ignore card advantage almost entirely."
Granted, he's talking about Master in the context of a modern Delver deck. Nonetheless, I think what he has to say is relevant in standard as well. If we understand tempo to be a resource, we can understand that some decks use the same resource in different ways. Aggro decks want to pull ahead in tempo, and control decks want to keep its opponents behind in tempo. Control decks care about card advantage in order to consistently answer threats as they become active, while aggro wants to generate threats faster than a control deck can manage them.
Applying this to Master of the Feast - Master was considerably worse in RTR/THS because answers were abundant and cheap. The chances that our opponent drew into an answer off of Master (or already had the answer in hand) were considerably higher, making Master (more often than not) easy to manage. The card advantage he gives the opponent is going to matter a whole lot less when we're looking at a standard where the best spot removal costs three or more mana (Hero's Downfall, Silence the Believers), have restrictive costs (all of the charms, Crackling Doom), have a relatively high level of variance (Murderous Cut), or misses the Master entirely (Lightning Strike, Magma Jet, Magma Spray, Stoke the Flames, Bile Blight, Ulcerate).
There's also something to be said about how you use your Master. In the old standard, if I was playing a deck that I knew had a lot of removal and my opponent had a hand full of cards, I would hold back from casting Master until it became more likely that he would kill them quick without them being able to answer it. You don't always have to drop him on T3. Hell, if you have enough steam you can just let him sit in your hand and wait for Game 2 when your opponent might side-out all of their costly removal.
tl;dr - I don't see how people are actually thinking about cutting a 5/5 flier for 3CMC in an aggro deck.
EDIT: forgot to mention how Master stacks up against other fliers. He eats Wingmate Roc, Stormbreath Dragon, and Prognostic Sphinx. I might be missing something, but those seem to be the big fliers in the upcoming meta.
Some people are playing far too many 3 Casting Cost cards. I don't think you can play more than about 12 and ideally it would be less than that.
I also don't understand why people want to play Master of the Feast maindeck, it's really bad against a lot of decks, saw very little maindeck play in the successful block decks and saw basically no play in the Standard decks of last season that were prizing on MTGO.
Ok, I have to respond because I've been a huge supporter of MotF and I've played it for awhile to really test it out. So...
People play Master in the main because it's a FOUR TURN CLOCK WITH EVASION. I feel like a broken record here. It's like asking "Why are you playing Desecration Demon when you can tap him down so easily". DUH. It is NOT really bad against a lot of decks, in fact last standard it was bad against 2 decks. And even one of those I left him in and didn't side out. Also, how do we know what decks he's bad or good against seeing as how the "new" standard hasn't even started yet? This Friday we'll see some new decks, but it's far too early to tell.
Honestly, it boils down to new players not liking self life loss, or giving the opponent something like card advantage. Necropotence; why would I skip my draw step and lose life? You're over looking the power of Master and only focusing on it's negative, which I believe after playing and testing and winning with him that his power FAR outweighs his disadvantage.
Also, MTGO is not an indicator of what is good and what gets played. Apples and Oranges, and honestly only the Apples (paper) really matter.
T1 Honored Heirarch
T2 Scales and Servant of the Scales
There's also a brand new card in BFZ with X for it's cost.. I'm most excited for THAT card.
#cantwaitforrotation
Im pulling for the G/W Constellation piloted by Sammartino and my boy Azeem playing mono red.
#freedbrady
1x Warden of the First Tree
4x Heir of the Wilds
2x Master of Pearls
4x Fleecemane Lion
2x Hornet Nest
3x Temur Sabertooth
1x Polukranos, World Eater
4x Whisperwood Elemental
4x Mastery of the Unseen
2x Valorous Stance
24x Land
Which leaves me 4 cards to play with. I've tried War Shamans, Dragons, Nylea, Coursers etc and still am unsure what I want to keep.
4x Voyaging Satyr
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Kiora's Follower
4x Courser of Kruphix
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
2x Nissa, Worldwaker
4x Sultai Charm
2x Read the Bones
24x Land
1x Back to Nature
1x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2x Sagu Mauler
Obviously sideboard isn't done. I'd like to think I could win with Wealth or Walkers.
Not really a mono green deck then.. lol
So you must not think that Polukranos, Stormbreath Dragon, any planeswalker, etc is worth playing because it "dies to hero's downfall"? One card drawn off a killed master isn't going to lose me the game, and if it does then I had already lost the game before I cast him.
Then why wasn't DD played when Innistrad standard was going on? Same with Pack Rat. They only saw play when other things rotated. That's my comparison. Because of the change to standard and the loss of answers to a Master, that's why I choose to play it. No Ultimate Price, Dread Bore, Abrupt Decay etc. There's so much less removal, that I believe he'll shine (regardless of his drawback).
And for comparison, I recently top 8'd a 65 man FNM with 3 copies of Master in my main. Went undefeated and saw a variety of standard decks last week. MBD, MGD, the "affinity" deck, Esper Control, Rabble Red, and something else.. I forget. Even with all the removal, I was able to play him successfully.
So in essence you won't play one of the most powerful standard cards right now because of AC? Who, when played in green devotion decks, are only played as a 1 of?
If that's your opinion, then that's your opinion. Until more 2cmc removal comes out, I will rock the Master and rock him hard. He's just too good against too many decks. I'll take that chance.
How am I getting 2 for 1'd if they use one removal spell to remove my one creature?
I use capitals to stress my emotion because in real life, that's how passionately I speak about things I feel strongly about.
And I'll disagree with you all day about paper vs MTGO. It isn't the same, not even close.
Also, you can be the world's best player and still be wrong about lots of things. Please explain to me how a 5/5 flier for 3cmc is a bad play.
Thank. You.
Ok, I have to respond because I've been a huge supporter of MotF and I've played it for awhile to really test it out. So...
People play Master in the main because it's a FOUR TURN CLOCK WITH EVASION. I feel like a broken record here. It's like asking "Why are you playing Desecration Demon when you can tap him down so easily". DUH. It is NOT really bad against a lot of decks, in fact last standard it was bad against 2 decks. And even one of those I left him in and didn't side out. Also, how do we know what decks he's bad or good against seeing as how the "new" standard hasn't even started yet? This Friday we'll see some new decks, but it's far too early to tell.
Honestly, it boils down to new players not liking self life loss, or giving the opponent something like card advantage. Necropotence; why would I skip my draw step and lose life? You're over looking the power of Master and only focusing on it's negative, which I believe after playing and testing and winning with him that his power FAR outweighs his disadvantage.
Also, MTGO is not an indicator of what is good and what gets played. Apples and Oranges, and honestly only the Apples (paper) really matter.