I dont want to take it too far of (which I've already done) but yeah, the price of Legacy kills it around here, but we have a strong Modern scene. :]
Didn't mean to start a pissing contest (my format is better than yours / my dad can beat up your dad). Only to say that Modern grew because WotC dropped the ball on
Legacy. When duals were priced in the double digits, Legacy was exploding in growth and the format everybody wanted to get into. Modern supplanted Legacy because WotC closed the RL loophole instead of exploiting it.
Modern has grown very popular, and WotC has raised a generation of players to hate combo, prison, and control, so they probably can't put the djinni back in that bottle. That said, Masters sets would fly off the shelves if more people could build a home for those cards. They took Sol Ring of the RL, so it's not exactly written in Stone. ABUR duals as expedions in Dominaria? Imagine the line-ups for that!
Modern is only the pinnacle because people have been priced out of Legacy. WotC can fix that with new lands that simulate the ABU duals. Sure would drive up sales too!
Not sure if I should upvote you for pointing out the hilarity that is Standard creatures being good enough FOR LEGACY, or disagree because they are good enough FOR LEGACY, while also leaving Modern a crippled wasteland for a good what, 4 months? :]
To be fair, virtually every creature played in Legacy was once Standard legal. And like all the other creatures ported from Standard (Craterhoof, Mentor, Young Pyro, Thalia, etc), they need the support of older, powerful cards in order to compete.
Legacy is a format that uses mostly new creatures, but mostly old spells. And it's balanced.
Note that the new Eldrazi are still legal in Modern. What got banned? Eye Of Ugin. Why? No Wasteland or Price of Progress. Nuff said.
BFZ, was the beginning of the end of anything good, as it introduced the utter garbage, that were the New Eldrazi and hyper pushed creatures with less answers.
The new Eldrazi were fantastic; any problems were solely the fault of a general lack of answers.
That's why the Eldrazi crapped all over Modern and Standard, but are a perfect fit in Legacy - the format with powerful generic answers that can keep them in check.
I'm starting to agree with the people who are saying creatures have gotten too powerful. This format is showing me that creatures are doing too much and taking the place of non-creature cards in the game.
The hard part about making that cut is that you are basically cutting a spell to make room for a land. makes it really hard to find a candidate for cutting.
It's also a token generator, so there is that.
The other problem is it is not actually a land card. I can't just cut a land for it because I run just enough to hit the land drops I need in the early game. So I think the most logical cut would be a mana rock. That's hard too, because this is a bit slow for a mana rock, and I think the rocks I'm running are overall better cards. My weakest mana rock is probably Mind Stone, and I'm already planning to ditch that for SotV.
I do love them Sol Lands though, and the defensive bolster would be useful where I feel soft to aggro...
Oh man, thats a nasty set up. Boo on your opponents for letting that happen Paradox engine is so good.
There are a number of nasty set ups that our opponents shouldn't let us get online. But sometimes we will. I think I had this going by turn 5 or 6, it's not always easy to stop us when we stampede out of the gate like that.
In other news, anybody plan on testing this:
The flip side is a colour fixing Sol Land that spits out 4/4 artifacts, and the main side is also an artifact and easy for us to transform. Seems made for the deck, but I'm not sure I have a cut I like.
I play a Lands themed deck. I don't run any geddon effects, but I do run various denial cards intended to slow the game down and keep the ramp decks in check. Specifically, Storm Cauldron and Mana Vortex (and Tabernacle). I can typically play a lot more lands than my opponents, so I usually gain a solid edge.
LD is fine to me if you can demonstrate your wincon after a wipe. Playing MLD "just to see what happens" is a key trait of the kind of people who (at my LGS's) have trouble finding people that want to play against them.
The closest I come to a sweeper is Sunder. I might win on the spot with Seismic Assault, or I might just replay my lands with Mana Bond.
I can also Strip lock my opponents. As far as I'm concerned if my opponents can never hit 2 mana, that is a wincon. I don't usually have trouble finding players. People like me, and my deck is rarely the scariest or most competitive at the table.
I have another deck that can occasionally lock out the opponents with Karn + Mycosynth Lattice, but that's hardly the main objective.
Ixalan is completely spoiled, so it's time to discuss all the great and wonderful new toys for us...
On closer inspection, it appears we have the first ever pirate themed block, and not so much as a single bilge rat.
I'm counting on Dominaria to give us some sexy vermin. There were plenty of Rats in the old days, so it seems like a reasonable assumption. I sure hope we aren't stuck waiting for Return To Kamigawa! I want my power-creeped Rats, gosh darnit.
The only trouble legacy has is that the faster the format gets, the more it becomes about who fires first.
I don't think Legacy is getting faster.
We don't exactly get a lot of new cards for combo decks these days. Furthermore, if we ever do see a consistent turn 1 or 2 combo deck that is not a glass cannon, I figure we'll see a ban as well.
Fast aggro (like Zoo, Fish, and Burn) are a much smaller part of the meta than a few years ago. Funny what happens after years and years of WotC pushing midrange bombs.
Even Delver decks are slower. UR is the exception, but the once ubigutous Canadian Thresh has been supplanted by grindier DRS archetypes.
Control decks are slower too, with the rise of Lands to the top tier as well as Miracles slowing down considerably.
If anything, Legacy is slowing down recently.
It's nice to win the toss, but I have never felt like my results are particularly dependant on that. I'd like to see Legacy stats on this. I doubt that in the big picture going first is that much more an advantage than playing white in chess.
EDIT
Legacy is an interesting format because the pace is faster but the games themselves tend to go longer.
This means the early turns are vital. You need to be very good at recognising the opponents deck (and reacting properly), as well as demonstrating shrewd mulligan skills. Until you get a good handle on this, your opponents will run over you before you feel you had a chance to react. And of course this effect will be exacerbated when you are on the draw.
I'm actually glad WotC are trying to milk older (pre-Modern) cards via Masters sets.
It brings down the price of EDH bombs
In order to get the most out of these, WotC are bound to realise they need to print fetchable dual lands with no meaningful drawback so that people actually have a practical use for the cards (EDH demand only goes so far). I'll be very surprised if nothing like this happens this year.
The era when Chronicles was released is different than it is now. There are now a lot more players, so an increased print run on products is generally needed.
A print run was also needed when when Chronicle was released - and players were overall very happy. The biggest difference is that at the time there was a higher ratio of non-plaher collectors; and WotC felt collectors were essential to their market.
Nowadays not only is the collector ratio way down, but collectors are arguable bad for MTG. I don't imagine collectors are primarily interested in newer cards (aka, creating demand for sealed product). WotC has a lot more incentive to cater to players over hoarders.
Legacy. When duals were priced in the double digits, Legacy was exploding in growth and the format everybody wanted to get into. Modern supplanted Legacy because WotC closed the RL loophole instead of exploiting it.
Modern has grown very popular, and WotC has raised a generation of players to hate combo, prison, and control, so they probably can't put the djinni back in that bottle. That said, Masters sets would fly off the shelves if more people could build a home for those cards. They took Sol Ring of the RL, so it's not exactly written in Stone. ABUR duals as expedions in Dominaria? Imagine the line-ups for that!
Legacy is a format that uses mostly new creatures, but mostly old spells. And it's balanced.
Note that the new Eldrazi are still legal in Modern. What got banned? Eye Of Ugin. Why? No Wasteland or Price of Progress. Nuff said.
That's why the Eldrazi crapped all over Modern and Standard, but are a perfect fit in Legacy - the format with powerful generic answers that can keep them in check.
Makes sense to me.
It's also a token generator, so there is that.
The other problem is it is not actually a land card. I can't just cut a land for it because I run just enough to hit the land drops I need in the early game. So I think the most logical cut would be a mana rock. That's hard too, because this is a bit slow for a mana rock, and I think the rocks I'm running are overall better cards. My weakest mana rock is probably Mind Stone, and I'm already planning to ditch that for SotV.
I do love them Sol Lands though, and the defensive bolster would be useful where I feel soft to aggro...
It would simultaneously curb the greedy mana and allow for some spicy unbans like Cloudpost, Eye, and (possibly) Dark Depths and the artifact lands.
That said Blood Sun hoses the hell out of fetchlands. Fetches in Dominaria?
In other news, anybody plan on testing this:
The flip side is a colour fixing Sol Land that spits out 4/4 artifacts, and the main side is also an artifact and easy for us to transform. Seems made for the deck, but I'm not sure I have a cut I like.
The closest I come to a sweeper is Sunder. I might win on the spot with Seismic Assault, or I might just replay my lands with Mana Bond.
I can also Strip lock my opponents. As far as I'm concerned if my opponents can never hit 2 mana, that is a wincon. I don't usually have trouble finding players. People like me, and my deck is rarely the scariest or most competitive at the table.
I have another deck that can occasionally lock out the opponents with Karn + Mycosynth Lattice, but that's hardly the main objective.
On closer inspection, it appears we have the first ever pirate themed block, and not so much as a single bilge rat.
I'm counting on Dominaria to give us some sexy vermin. There were plenty of Rats in the old days, so it seems like a reasonable assumption. I sure hope we aren't stuck waiting for Return To Kamigawa! I want my power-creeped Rats, gosh darnit.
- We don't exactly get a lot of new cards for combo decks these days. Furthermore, if we ever do see a consistent turn 1 or 2 combo deck that is not a glass cannon, I figure we'll see a ban as well.
- Fast aggro (like Zoo, Fish, and Burn) are a much smaller part of the meta than a few years ago. Funny what happens after years and years of WotC pushing midrange bombs.
- Even Delver decks are slower. UR is the exception, but the once ubigutous Canadian Thresh has been supplanted by grindier DRS archetypes.
- Control decks are slower too, with the rise of Lands to the top tier as well as Miracles slowing down considerably.
If anything, Legacy is slowing down recently.It's nice to win the toss, but I have never felt like my results are particularly dependant on that. I'd like to see Legacy stats on this. I doubt that in the big picture going first is that much more an advantage than playing white in chess.
EDIT
Legacy is an interesting format because the pace is faster but the games themselves tend to go longer.
This means the early turns are vital. You need to be very good at recognising the opponents deck (and reacting properly), as well as demonstrating shrewd mulligan skills. Until you get a good handle on this, your opponents will run over you before you feel you had a chance to react. And of course this effect will be exacerbated when you are on the draw.
A print run was also needed when when Chronicle was released - and players were overall very happy. The biggest difference is that at the time there was a higher ratio of non-plaher collectors; and WotC felt collectors were essential to their market.
Nowadays not only is the collector ratio way down, but collectors are arguable bad for MTG. I don't imagine collectors are primarily interested in newer cards (aka, creating demand for sealed product). WotC has a lot more incentive to cater to players over hoarders.