I've played with 22 lands, 21 lands, and 20 and I think, at least for me, 20 is the sweet spot with 4 birds and 4 nobles. I will admit it can get a tough from time to time when you have one land, one bird and a few two drops and you make the pull to keep it- and the bird gets the bolt/push.
I'm still on the fence with going 4x Tidehollow I want to playtest it a bit more. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday at our weekly modern event but decided not to. (Went 3-0 on my standard build)
Kazu Negri is a hell of a deckbuilder. My friend (playing GDS) faced him in the quarterfinals. He said Distended Mindbender tore his hand apart and apparently it did well against everyone Negri faced that day.
I'm gearing up for another RTPQ with the deck (Abzan build). I've toyed with 4C using Spell Queller but I didn't enjoy it as much.
I'm really starting to grow tired of Rhonas and I was wondering if others have felt the same. I want to pull him from the deck and maybe add another Walking Ballista or a 4th Eternal Witness.
For reference here's my current build (minus Rhonas) I'm still on the 20 land from months ago and have never had a problem.
From my experience most Control Style Matchups can go the distance in time. Your opponent has to deal with your creatures but yet still hold up mana for a CoCo or Chord which give them tough decisions. I tend not to flood the board as much and go for Gavony Township Activation/beats. Eventually you get there with Finks 2 for 1's, etc. Spell Queller is a bugger at times, especially if they pocket your CoCo and you have no answer to it.
Round 1 Was against Grixis Control- game 1 my opponent have 3 Visions in Suspend so I just got picked apart. Game 2 I stuck with Gavony Beats and held back creatures for second attacks after Push/Bolt, etc. Game 3 we both mulled to five but I had the nut draw and there wasn't much he could do. 1-0 (2-1 for the day)
Round 2 was against B/R Pack Rat and it did not go well. My hands got picked apart, followed up by Bolt/Push/Brutality. Both games were equally bad. 0-2 (2-3 for the day)
Round 3 I went up against Elves. Game 1 combo to Ballista. Game 2 he stuck an Ezuri and that was game for me. Game 3 I picked his battlefield apart with a Ballista, Path, and finally hit a Linvala for the win. 2-1 (4-4 for the day)
Round 4 was Eldrazi Tron Game 1 I played towards Gavony Beats and dropped them to 10 life, then topdeck All is Dust. Game 2 led me to more Gavony Beats as I couldn't find an answer to Grafdigger's Cage. Game 3 we ended up with a draw as we both couldn't close the game out after dealing with each other's threats. I made several misplays here, but thankfully so did my opponent. 2-1-1 (5-5-1 for the day)
Round 5 was against Soul Sisters (Paired down). Not much to say here. Both games I went infinite and they scooped. 2-0 (7-5-1 for the day)
Round 6 I had to win and hope for good breaks for top 8. I was up against Esper Control. Game 1 Spell Queller did it's think and took away two companies from me. Game 2 I brought in hate (plus Path to Exile to deal with the Quellers) and go there on Gavony Beats. Game three we went to turns and I got the infinite life combo and he conceded. 2-1 (9-6-1 for the day)
I played the waiting game for a few minutes and found out I took 9th just missing top 8. My round 4 opponent (Eldrazi Tron) had better breakers than me so they got the 8th place spot. I ended up with a half box as prize support so it wasn't that bad.
Overall fun day, wish I could have been better but oh well. Still lots to learn about the deck and being more flexible with thinking and playing to various outs (there's times I should have chorded for another creature that I thought of after the fact)
I'm still happy with the 20 land version (after some mana base adjustments). Rhonas got the win on the last game of Round 1. Ballista got the majority of the wins for me as well (when it was combo based). Gavony Beats is a legit plan as well for grindy control matches. I feel I was lucky as I didn't play any Shadow or Affinity that was there.
I'm really happy with my current build but if I had to make any changes I would probably go with cutting a Duskwatch Recruiter and putting Fiend Hunter Back in.
I've been tinkering with added a Razorverge Thicket to replace the swamp- it does make sense at this time- our meta was a lot of Blood Moon/Paths so that's why I ran it (but I was also on 22 land at that time)
Why Ballista: For me it seems that it goes easier in the synching of the deck- (obviously) you go infinite life or you get unlimited mana- I run three Duskwatch's so digging with infinite mana seems to work better than going Rhonas beats- to each their own though
Re: Dreamstealer- it looks spicy- I've heard from others that like and use it but I don't think it's for me at this time.
Round 1 was against Affinity and it went to a draw (1-1-1). A bad misplay from my opponent on game 2 and a misplay from me on turns (I have the infinite life combo on the board at the start of turns) Instead of scrying for my druid and then scrying for Eternal Witness I went with some artifact hate- it ended up putting us at a stalemate instead so a draw was the end result.
Round 2 was against a new, young kid who didn't have much of a deck to start with Pretty fast 2-0. Kid was pretty upset afterward so I bought him a few packs and told him to keep practicing and don't give up.
Round 3 was against Esper Shadow- my opponent never saw his Shadows. Finks beats for game one and a Selfless Spirit beats on game 2 (with Exalted back up) I was able to weed out the Stubborn Denials to get there.
Round 4 was against Blue Tron. I just kept fighting my opponent with a Duskwatch Recruiter until he ran out of counter spells. After that it was beats with CoCo. I made another mental mistake here: On game 2 I kept a questionable hand and hoped for a good land pull which didn't happen.
Round 5 was against Jund. Sadly my opponent didn't de-sideboard and played a Kitchen Finks. Our Shop rules are basically tournament rules so that was a game loss for him. Game 2 he stuck a cage and just kept the pressure. Game 3 was lots of attrition, but I was able to get there through CoCo-Witness-CoCo-Witness-CoCo. Never saw the combo but Vizer and Finks for blocks for days and an Exalted Bird to get over when needed. It was a rough match from the game loss and my opponent was pretty salty and I felt bad about it as well since it was a tainted win, etc.
Overall thoughts:
I still like 20 lands but it can make questionable keeps/decisions.I'm usually OK keeping a 1-land (fetch or forest) due to the 8 Birds/Nobles (plus 4 Druids). Though with cutting the lands down I feel like Godless Shrine should be pulled for another Temple Garden/Overgrown Tomb to avoid those one hand blah moments.
Rhonas- every time I got that card I hated it- I'm really considering pulling it but I know it's needed- Going the Walking Ballista Route is just better- but I know there will be times when I won't be able to do that.
Played two separate events in the last two days and did very well. Cut the lands to 20 and didn't really notice. Also tweaked the sideboard some for meta adjustments.
Thursday I went 3-1 losing in the finals to Mono Black Devotion(lots of removal, discard and phyrexian obliterator) Game 1 was Burn, Game 2 was Mono Green Stompy, Game 3 was W/U Spirits (I won game 2 with Gavony Beats then combo off the last game) and as 4 was Black Devotion- very close game three I had the combo in hand just couldn't get a third land, then he Doom Blade my BoP and that was it for me.
Friday was Win a Box FNM as well as Fatal Push Promo. Round 1 I took down Burn, Round 2 I took down Elves and Round 3 I took down Burn again. Took the store credit and got a nice Push for my 3-0 night
Overall, this deck is really fun to play and I keep learning new techniques each week.
I've been playing Vizier Company for a few months now at my local FNM events and I've really been enjoying it. Right now it's just a stock list with various chord options that's tuned to my local meta. I'm happy with my results so far (either 2-2 or 3-1 for the last few weeks), but obviously would like those numbers to go up.
Regarding sideboarding- what is the overall game plan- most of the time I pull my chord options (Tireless Tracker, etc) and can replace them in a one of situation (For example Kataki, but other time's I struggle if I have to replace more than four cards. Is it OK to dilute the overall gameplan and go on big beats/silver bullets? Is there ever a time you want to drop Chords/CoCo or early ramp creatures?
I've been on the Revolt Zoo plan for quite some time now but I'm hesitant to pull the trigger playing it tomorrow at a larger tournament. I might try the Naya Company Build but I'm still not sure yet. Revolt can just bring about turn 3 wins but can also fizzle fast. I'm expecting a lot of Death's Shadow and Affinity.
I've played with 22 lands, 21 lands, and 20 and I think, at least for me, 20 is the sweet spot with 4 birds and 4 nobles. I will admit it can get a tough from time to time when you have one land, one bird and a few two drops and you make the pull to keep it- and the bird gets the bolt/push.
I'm still on the fence with going 4x Tidehollow I want to playtest it a bit more. I almost pulled the trigger yesterday at our weekly modern event but decided not to. (Went 3-0 on my standard build)
That being said went 3-0 (Elves, Infect, and Burn) tonight again. No Rhonas, added Tireless Tracker and never needed him. I really like this deck
I'm really starting to grow tired of Rhonas and I was wondering if others have felt the same. I want to pull him from the deck and maybe add another Walking Ballista or a 4th Eternal Witness.
For reference here's my current build (minus Rhonas) I'm still on the 20 land from months ago and have never had a problem.
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Spells
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Path to Exile
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Sin Collector
1 Tireless Tracker
Shaper's Sanctuary (sideboard for long match ups) might be a 1-of for me.
Growing Rites of Itlimoc could be a one of as well though I think that card will be for more Knight of the Reliquary style decks.
2 Gavony Township
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
1 Dusk
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Path to Exile
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Sin Collector
Round 1 Was against Grixis Control- game 1 my opponent have 3 Visions in Suspend so I just got picked apart. Game 2 I stuck with Gavony Beats and held back creatures for second attacks after Push/Bolt, etc. Game 3 we both mulled to five but I had the nut draw and there wasn't much he could do. 1-0 (2-1 for the day)
Round 2 was against B/R Pack Rat and it did not go well. My hands got picked apart, followed up by Bolt/Push/Brutality. Both games were equally bad. 0-2 (2-3 for the day)
Round 3 I went up against Elves. Game 1 combo to Ballista. Game 2 he stuck an Ezuri and that was game for me. Game 3 I picked his battlefield apart with a Ballista, Path, and finally hit a Linvala for the win. 2-1 (4-4 for the day)
Round 4 was Eldrazi Tron Game 1 I played towards Gavony Beats and dropped them to 10 life, then topdeck All is Dust. Game 2 led me to more Gavony Beats as I couldn't find an answer to Grafdigger's Cage. Game 3 we ended up with a draw as we both couldn't close the game out after dealing with each other's threats. I made several misplays here, but thankfully so did my opponent. 2-1-1 (5-5-1 for the day)
Round 5 was against Soul Sisters (Paired down). Not much to say here. Both games I went infinite and they scooped. 2-0 (7-5-1 for the day)
Round 6 I had to win and hope for good breaks for top 8. I was up against Esper Control. Game 1 Spell Queller did it's think and took away two companies from me. Game 2 I brought in hate (plus Path to Exile to deal with the Quellers) and go there on Gavony Beats. Game three we went to turns and I got the infinite life combo and he conceded. 2-1 (9-6-1 for the day)
I played the waiting game for a few minutes and found out I took 9th just missing top 8. My round 4 opponent (Eldrazi Tron) had better breakers than me so they got the 8th place spot. I ended up with a half box as prize support so it wasn't that bad.
Overall fun day, wish I could have been better but oh well. Still lots to learn about the deck and being more flexible with thinking and playing to various outs (there's times I should have chorded for another creature that I thought of after the fact)
I'm still happy with the 20 land version (after some mana base adjustments). Rhonas got the win on the last game of Round 1. Ballista got the majority of the wins for me as well (when it was combo based). Gavony Beats is a legit plan as well for grindy control matches. I feel I was lucky as I didn't play any Shadow or Affinity that was there.
I'm really happy with my current build but if I had to make any changes I would probably go with cutting a Duskwatch Recruiter and putting Fiend Hunter Back in.
Why Ballista: For me it seems that it goes easier in the synching of the deck- (obviously) you go infinite life or you get unlimited mana- I run three Duskwatch's so digging with infinite mana seems to work better than going Rhonas beats- to each their own though
Re: Dreamstealer- it looks spicy- I've heard from others that like and use it but I don't think it's for me at this time.
Tweeked the Sideboard again for meta adjustments.
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
4 Devoted Druid
3 Duskwatch Recruiter
3 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Path to Exile
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Sin Collector
Round 1 was against Affinity and it went to a draw (1-1-1). A bad misplay from my opponent on game 2 and a misplay from me on turns (I have the infinite life combo on the board at the start of turns) Instead of scrying for my druid and then scrying for Eternal Witness I went with some artifact hate- it ended up putting us at a stalemate instead so a draw was the end result.
Round 2 was against a new, young kid who didn't have much of a deck to start with Pretty fast 2-0. Kid was pretty upset afterward so I bought him a few packs and told him to keep practicing and don't give up.
Round 3 was against Esper Shadow- my opponent never saw his Shadows. Finks beats for game one and a Selfless Spirit beats on game 2 (with Exalted back up) I was able to weed out the Stubborn Denials to get there.
Round 4 was against Blue Tron. I just kept fighting my opponent with a Duskwatch Recruiter until he ran out of counter spells. After that it was beats with CoCo. I made another mental mistake here: On game 2 I kept a questionable hand and hoped for a good land pull which didn't happen.
Round 5 was against Jund. Sadly my opponent didn't de-sideboard and played a Kitchen Finks. Our Shop rules are basically tournament rules so that was a game loss for him. Game 2 he stuck a cage and just kept the pressure. Game 3 was lots of attrition, but I was able to get there through CoCo-Witness-CoCo-Witness-CoCo. Never saw the combo but Vizer and Finks for blocks for days and an Exalted Bird to get over when needed. It was a rough match from the game loss and my opponent was pretty salty and I felt bad about it as well since it was a tainted win, etc.
Overall thoughts:
I still like 20 lands but it can make questionable keeps/decisions.I'm usually OK keeping a 1-land (fetch or forest) due to the 8 Birds/Nobles (plus 4 Druids). Though with cutting the lands down I feel like Godless Shrine should be pulled for another Temple Garden/Overgrown Tomb to avoid those one hand blah moments.
Rhonas- every time I got that card I hated it- I'm really considering pulling it but I know it's needed- Going the Walking Ballista Route is just better- but I know there will be times when I won't be able to do that.
Thursday I went 3-1 losing in the finals to Mono Black Devotion(lots of removal, discard and phyrexian obliterator) Game 1 was Burn, Game 2 was Mono Green Stompy, Game 3 was W/U Spirits (I won game 2 with Gavony Beats then combo off the last game) and as 4 was Black Devotion- very close game three I had the combo in hand just couldn't get a third land, then he Doom Blade my BoP and that was it for me.
Friday was Win a Box FNM as well as Fatal Push Promo. Round 1 I took down Burn, Round 2 I took down Elves and Round 3 I took down Burn again. Took the store credit and got a nice Push for my 3-0 night
Overall, this deck is really fun to play and I keep learning new techniques each week.
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Eternal Witness
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Renegade Rallier
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Path to Exile
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
3 Sin Collector
I've been playing Vizier Company for a few months now at my local FNM events and I've really been enjoying it. Right now it's just a stock list with various chord options that's tuned to my local meta. I'm happy with my results so far (either 2-2 or 3-1 for the last few weeks), but obviously would like those numbers to go up.
Regarding sideboarding- what is the overall game plan- most of the time I pull my chord options (Tireless Tracker, etc) and can replace them in a one of situation (For example Kataki, but other time's I struggle if I have to replace more than four cards. Is it OK to dilute the overall gameplan and go on big beats/silver bullets? Is there ever a time you want to drop Chords/CoCo or early ramp creatures?
2 Forest
2 Gavony Township
1 Godless Shrine
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Devoted Druid
2 Duskwatch Recruiter
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fiend Hunter
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rhonas the Indomitable
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Viscera Seer
4 Vizier of Remedies
1 Walking Ballista
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Path to Exile
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Selfless Spirit
2 Voice of Resurgence
Should be really powerful to say the least- can be played off of BTE and can punish just about anything out there...I like it!
I understand Greenwheel Liberator but I'm not sold on it. I would prefer Rancor instead (to get past all of those annoying Lingering Souls, etc)