This same reason is why you run Reclamation Sage over Erase most of the time. A 3-drop that takes out a Herald of Torment AND trades with one of their dudes? Yes please.
The only reason I'm thinking about Erase/Deicide is because of the instant speed ability to take out Jeskai Ascendancy. I don't know yet how big a thing that combo is going to be.
^ I'm really glad to hear about your success! Your deck list looks great, and your sideboarding choices look perfect as well. Thanks for the report! Quick question for you - what's the plan with the sideboard Nissa, Worldwaker?
Thanks man!
Here's a breakdown of my general sideboard plan. This is 100% bound to change slightly depending on how I see the opposing build. (ie normally Deicide wouldn't come in against Jeskai Tempo but if I see a build with Purphoros, God of the Forge AND Keranos, God of Storms in it I'll probably consider it.)
In this I need to have faster spot removal. Bile Blight has the capability of going 1-for-2 in the event of Seeker of the Way. It also kills Mantis Rider and Goblin Rabblemaster at instant speed. I just feel it's better in this match up then Drown in Sorrw. Nissa, Worldwaker comes in over Elspeth, Sun's Champion. This is becuase 4 Tougness is, for the most part, going to have to result in a 2-for-1 stealing tempo and card advantage against the Jeskai Tempo player. The exception is stoke the flames and honestly if he's stoking my land I'm in a good spot.
In this match up I think that keeping their Brimaz and Goblin Rabblemaster controlled is very important. That being said Drown in Sorrow kills both Tokens and Rabble Master. After that Brimaz deserves a kill spell. Plenty of lists I've tested against run some kind of recursion as well. Anafenza, the Foremost both provides a sizeable body and a means of keeping Whip of Erebos targets down.
This is a rough one. Their creatures are bigger and they run A LOT of them. Because the they do run so many creatures Despise is a great option because it saves our life total a little. Nylea can cause a huge issue so Deicide comes in to take care of that. Empty the Pits comes in because this match can be grindy as heck. We cannot overpower their creatures but we can overrun their numbers.
Up the mass destruction, Lower the disruption and attrition. Works every time when someone is puking their hand trying to race.
vs GR/x Monsters
Identical to G/x Devotion with the exception of bringing in Deicide. I leave that out and keep Drown in Sorrow in. They are crippled when you start mass removing their mana dorks.
Edit: Here's the list for those who haven't been following.
I felt that in this match up I needed more impactful removal and he was puking his hand out faster then I could reasonably Thoughtseize so there wasn't much point. Anafenza, the Foremost was two fold. 1- She was a giant creature that could help me race. 2- She exiled his stuff when they died so whip was gonna be dead.
Round 2: Godeku's Abzan Midrange vs Mono Red Heroic?
Honestly... there wasn't much to report here. This was a blow out game. This mono red deck hedged all of it's eggs on Akroan Crusader and bestow creatures. It was not good...
Round 3: Godeku's Abzan Midrange vs Mono Black Aggro.
This guy... THIS GUY... I hate this guy... He ran 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Despise, 4 Mardu Skullhunter. I've never been forced to play cards so inefficiently in my life. I was not happy.
Game 1 he starts with Thoughtseize, Followed by Despise + one drop then Thoughtseize + 2 one drops. Lucky for me I drew a Caryatid and was able stave off just enough damage to get me a Seige Rhino followed up with Sorin, Solemn Visitor. I got 1 attack in with the Siege Rhino before that got downfalled. I ended up winning the game off the back of a Vampire Token.
But you do not need at all to keep mana up to protect him if you can curve out. The thing is that it only costs 2 mana to cast and the opponent will likely spend an equal amount if not more on a removal spell to get rid of it. That's mana efficiency for you as that removal spell will now not hit your Siege Rhino. Any 2 drop that they need to spend a card on is already amazing fodder. This is unlike Lotleth Troll, where you'd throw creature cards at him which made him more of a valuable target for removal.
I would just play it and treat any pumps/regen into it as auxilliary depending on your curve.
This is the 1st option I described. In this situation Fleecemane Lion does the same thing... but better.
I think Deathdealer is being underrated, and big time, judging by the lists I'm seeing in this thread.
It's a very skill intensive but versatile threat that can take over games by itself. With regen/pump mana up, he can attack in to any early game board we're likely to see and opponents will almost always take the two. This allows you to hold mana up for removal during your opponents turn, which can be a tremendous tempo advantage for this deck.
Played smartly, the card forces your opponent to make decisions they aren't super confident with.
I also tested Rakshasa Deathdealer. I agree he is powerful but he is not "skill intensive"... he's mana intensive. The problem with the Deathdealer is that in order to get your money's worth out of him you needed to invest a good deal of mana on him every single turn. This would often force you in a position where you you either had to 1- Leave the Rakshasa Deathdealeras a vanilla 2/2 so you could play your other high impact spells. 2- Not play your high impact spells and hedge the game on Rakshasa Deathdealer. or 3-Use your mana in terribly inefficient ways. Now lets throw multiples on the board and see how it gets out of hand.
On top of that. "Hold two mana up for removal." In our colors we have Bile Blight and Last Breath for playable 2 mana removal. Not really worth trying to manufacture your mana in a way to pull this off ever turn. As a matter of fact with the way I play I'd probably call that bluff pretty much every time in the current standard format.
I don't understand why Nissa, Worldwaker is not considered that much for the deck? She adds another threat into the deck as well as provides you with a clock that is difficult to deal with. Currently, I am still putting together a full list for this deck but would like to get some more feedback. I would like to run a planeswalker package that uses Nissa, Worldwaker, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, and Elspeth, Sun's Champion.
I think Nissa and Elspeth almost fill the same spot in the deck. Elspeth, while great, doesn't do much vs some match ups (Jeskai Tempo) while Nissa excels in that match up. The opposite side of that coin is Elspeth is great in certain match ups (Mono Green Devo) that Nissa just doesn't do well in.
To that end I feel that both should be in the 75 but maybe not both in the main.
Caves of Koilos over Sandsteppe Citadel was to have another land that comes into play untapped. I found I was having some issues some games where I didn't have a turn two play because of how many tapped lands I was running. It wasn't happening too often but more often then I'd like. This change should help with consistency and the only thing I lose is an extra Green source that really wasn't needed.
Empty the Pits is coming into the side over Whip of Erebos and Silence the Believers. I found that I had plenty of removal in the 75 but what I needed was another late game high impact spell to close out grindy games. Empty the Pits is exactly that.
It's probably bad in the mirror because of Bile Blight though. But that's why Nissa, Worldwaker is there.
Here's my list that went 3-2 at my last FNM and 3-0 at a smaller event over the weekend. Despite doing relatively well, I still feel like the deck could use some work. The Mystics are only there due to my lack of Caryatids, and I can't believe it took me this long to realize they reprinted Erase. Athreos was fun to use, but I think Whip might be a better use of that slot. I'm also pretty sure Liliana should be moved to the sideboard and that Garruk is completely unnecessary. Any other suggestions are welcome.
2. I'd cut the Ajani, Mentor of Heroes entirely myself. He just doesn't seem to have a large enough impact on the game at least when I've played him (admitedly this was back before Khans dropped in.)
5. I'd try to tighten up the sideboard. 1-ofs in the sideboard are usually going to be things that fill a similar roll to other cards in your main that you may want more of. For instance. Hero's Downfall and Silence the Believers ultimately fill the same spot in the deck (with Silence the Believers having a bonus of hitting more then 1 target late game). Hero's Downfall is the better card most often so this would be in your main. However there are some match ups where you need more removal! Silence the Believers would come in there.
Bile Blight is getting better and better with the proliferation of Jeskai decks. I encourage people to run it in the main these days. It's also our best (only?) main deckable answer to opposing Hornet Queens.
An argument could be made for Drown in Sorrow here as well. Just food for thought.
Goddamn I'm sorry it just pisses me off how much people see how good a card does in one type of deck and expect it to work for every stupid deck in that color. Elspeth DOES NOT. Courser DOES NOT. End of story.
I'm sorry it pisses you off. I'm not going to say much more then what other people have done except results speak volumes. To believe you are the only person with this train of though it beyond arrogant or beyond asinine so I'm going to assume you don't believe you are alone in this.
With that being said lets look at results. How many successful Abzan Midrange decks are running Elspeth, Sun's Champion in their list? Well lucky for us we have a fancy spreadsheet that tells us exactly that.
Lets see... 16/18! Of these decks Most ran her as a 2-or-more-of.
It's safe to assume that because of the results posted by top decks that Elspeth is an important part. This is also reflected by the fact that Elspeth was in each decklist that took 1st, and in each of those she was a minimum of 3 in the main.
If you don't feel Elspeth is needed in your build then fantastic! There are at least 2 decks in our set that have posted successful results without her. It can be done! But keep in mind that there are a number of successful results that speak against this point of view.
Now on to Courser... Yup 18/18... ... Must be something there.
The reasons these two cards are in successful lists have been previously stated as well.
I find it interesting how some of the generally considered staples in some spots (Nyx-Fleece Ram in the side, Murderous Cut somewhere) were ommited from so many lists. Also I see no mention of Polukranos, World Eater. But that may be because I think he was ran in exactly 1 deck from what I remember.
All in all this is great. Makes me feel pretty freaking good about my list!
Okay, this states info is great since it gives us an additional 10 data points to plug into my math from the weekend for a total of 19 deck lists. It's likely going to take an hour or so to crunch the numbers, but here are some predictions I have for these decks:
-the only cards that were universally played were Courser, Elspeth, Abzan Charm, and Hero's Downfall. I expect that to hold true here.
-Only one of the ten SCG decks omitted Seige Rhino, Caryatid, Fleecemane, or thoughtseize. There might be a little variance as well but I expect them to hold true as well.
-I didn't check the numbers on the lands but it'll be curious to see if everyone just mindlessly jammed 4 windswept heath into their build, or if some omitted it.
If no one has posted by the time I get this number crunch done I'll update this post, else I'll make a new one.
I can tell you that the California State Champ played 2 Windswept Heath.
Other then that I'm eager to see the data here as I will not have time to actually sit down and crunch numbers on anything for a few weeks. Are you going to make this data fully public on this forum or via something like a google doc spreadsheet? Either way I'm extremely interested in what we see.
I've chosen to play Thoughtseize but not as a turn 1, 2, 3 or 4 play. Specifically it's a play that lets me set up the best possible situation for my mid/late game if the opponent has a hand. I don't think there's much of a good reason to play Thoughtseize on turn 1 if you have tapped land in hand. Or on turn two if you have Caryatid/Fleecemain in hand. Play the stuff on Curve and use Thoughtseize to force your opponent to play in a way that is inefficient or as a means to push your important plays through.
That doesn't mean my way of thinking is more right or wrong then riliss's or others who have cut Thoughtseize from their lists. It's just another angle to consider when choosing Thoughtseize.
That being said I would have to say the "Core" of the deck is very simple. Outside of this there is plenty of wiggle room (This is my opinion and my starting point when I re-evaluate the build). The generally accepted formula seems to be 18-25 Creatures, 2-5 Planeswalkers, 8-15 Other Spells, 23-24 Land.
3x Memnite
4x Ornithopter
4x Signal Pest
4x Vault Skirge
3x Arcbound Ravager
3x Steel Overseer
2x Etched Champion
1x Master of Etherium
1x Spellskite
Spells (17)
4x Cranial Plating
4x Galvanic Blast
4x Springleaf Drum
3x Mox Opal
2x Ensoul Artifact
4x Inkmoth Nexus
4x Blinkmoth Nexus
4x Glimmervoid
4x Darksteel Citadel
1x Island
1x Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
2x Etched Champion
1x Master of Etherium
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Blood Moon
2x Whipflare
2x Spell Pierce
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Sword of War and Peace
2x Torpor Orb
Just polished off the last pieces I needed for this list.
I elected for no Thoughtcast and 4 Galvanic Blast because it's more aggressive and my meta allows me to do this.
You should definately Run Deicide at least in the side. G/x Devotion is a thing and they all run Nylea, God of the Hunt. I also predict Keranos, God of Storms and Purphoros, God of the Forge to make appearances as well. We might even see a few Erebos, God of the Dead soon.
Thanks man!
Here's a breakdown of my general sideboard plan. This is 100% bound to change slightly depending on how I see the opposing build. (ie normally Deicide wouldn't come in against Jeskai Tempo but if I see a build with Purphoros, God of the Forge AND Keranos, God of Storms in it I'll probably consider it.)
vs Jeskai Tempe
In: 2 Bile Blight, 2 Nissa, Worldwaker, 1 Bow of Nylea
Out: 2 Drown in Sorrow, 1 Thoughtseize, 2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
In this I need to have faster spot removal. Bile Blight has the capability of going 1-for-2 in the event of Seeker of the Way. It also kills Mantis Rider and Goblin Rabblemaster at instant speed. I just feel it's better in this match up then Drown in Sorrw. Nissa, Worldwaker comes in over Elspeth, Sun's Champion. This is becuase 4 Tougness is, for the most part, going to have to result in a 2-for-1 stealing tempo and card advantage against the Jeskai Tempo player. The exception is stoke the flames and honestly if he's stoking my land I'm in a good spot.
vs Mardu Midrange
In: 2 Drown in Sorrow, 1 Anafenza, the Foremost
Out: 2 Utter End, 1 Polukranos, World Eater
In this match up I think that keeping their Brimaz and Goblin Rabblemaster controlled is very important. That being said Drown in Sorrow kills both Tokens and Rabble Master. After that Brimaz deserves a kill spell. Plenty of lists I've tested against run some kind of recursion as well. Anafenza, the Foremost both provides a sizeable body and a means of keeping Whip of Erebos targets down.
vs G/x Devotion
In: 3x Despise, 2x Empty the Pits, 2x Deicide
Out: 3x Thoughtseize, 2x Drown in Sorrow, 1x Polukranos, World Eater 1x Anafenza, the Foremost
This is a rough one. Their creatures are bigger and they run A LOT of them. Because the they do run so many creatures Despise is a great option because it saves our life total a little. Nylea can cause a huge issue so Deicide comes in to take care of that. Empty the Pits comes in because this match can be grindy as heck. We cannot overpower their creatures but we can overrun their numbers.
vs Abzan Midrange/Reanimator
In: 2x Bile Blight, 1x Anafenza the Foremost, 2x Empty the Pits
Out: 3x Thoughtseize, 2x Drown in Sorrow
Drown in Sorrow is 100% dead in this match so it's out for Bile Blight. Which has techy ways of letting me deal with things. Anafenza, the Foremost and Empty the Pits allow me to win out in attrition wars and Anafenza, the Foremost is key when facing a Reanimator version.
vs Fast Aggro
In: 2x Drown in Sorrw, 2x Bile Blight, 1x Anafenza, the Foremost, 1x Bow of Nylea
Out: 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Polukranos, World Eater, 1x Utter End
Up the mass destruction, Lower the disruption and attrition. Works every time when someone is puking their hand trying to race.
vs GR/x Monsters
Identical to G/x Devotion with the exception of bringing in Deicide. I leave that out and keep Drown in Sorrow in. They are crippled when you start mass removing their mana dorks.
Edit: Here's the list for those who haven't been following.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Fleecemane Lion
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wingmate Roc
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells (13)
3 Abzan Charm
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Utter End
3 Thoughtseize
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Plains
3 Forest
3 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Windswept Heath
2 Deicide
3 Despise
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Bile Blight
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Empty the Pits
So... WNM was... well tonight.
Here's the list I ran.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Fleecemane Lion
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wingmate Roc
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells (13)
3 Abzan Charm
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Utter End
3 Thoughtseize
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Plains
3 Forest
3 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Windswept Heath
2 Deicide
3 Despise
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Bileblight
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Empty the Pits
Record: 3-0 (6-0) -- Flawless Victory.
Round 1: Godeku's Abzan Midrange vs Abzan Aggro.
Round one he opened with Thoughtseize into followed by double Soldier of the Pantheon. This was surprisingly difficult to deal with as I kept a hand that contained double Fleecemane Lion, Abzan Charm, Sorin, Solemn Visitor, Temple of Silence, Llanowar Wastes and Forest. With his turn one he took my Sorin, Solemn Visitor (which I think was a mistake) and started to race me. He curved out well enough following up double Soldier of the Pantheon with a Master of Feasts into Whip of Erebos. What ended up killing him was the extra cards Master of Feasts provided me. If it wasn't for that dig I would not have gotten the Drown in sorrow to stabilize the game and race down with the Fleecemane Lions. The rest of my draws didn't matter much as they were stuff I either didn't cast or where land. He ran out of gas after the flurry of damage.
In: 2x Drown in Sorrw, 2x Bile Blight, 1x Anafenza, the Foremost and 1x Bow of Nylea
Out: 3x Thoughtseize, 2x Utter End
I felt that in this match up I needed more impactful removal and he was puking his hand out faster then I could reasonably Thoughtseize so there wasn't much point. Anafenza, the Foremost was two fold. 1- She was a giant creature that could help me race. 2- She exiled his stuff when they died so whip was gonna be dead.
Game 2 I ripped his board state apart. I started with Temple of Malady, left my Drown in Sorrow on top. Turn 2 Fleecemane Lion taking one of Caves of Koilos. Turn three I attack in for 3 easy points of damage and drown in sorrow for a 1-for-3. After that Siege Rhino hit the ground followed by Anafenza, the Foremost and then monstrous Fleecemane Lion. He was taking too much damage and couldn't find a kill spell.
Round 2: Godeku's Abzan Midrange vs Mono Red Heroic?
Honestly... there wasn't much to report here. This was a blow out game. This mono red deck hedged all of it's eggs on Akroan Crusader and bestow creatures. It was not good...
Sideboard was like 2 Deicide for my Polukranos, World Eater and Anafenza, the Foremost.
Round 3: Godeku's Abzan Midrange vs Mono Black Aggro.
This guy... THIS GUY... I hate this guy... He ran 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Despise, 4 Mardu Skullhunter. I've never been forced to play cards so inefficiently in my life. I was not happy.
Game 1 he starts with Thoughtseize, Followed by Despise + one drop then Thoughtseize + 2 one drops. Lucky for me I drew a Caryatid and was able stave off just enough damage to get me a Seige Rhino followed up with Sorin, Solemn Visitor. I got 1 attack in with the Siege Rhino before that got downfalled. I ended up winning the game off the back of a Vampire Token.
In: 2x Drown in Sorrw, 2x Bile Blight, 1x Anafenza, the Foremost and 1x Bow of Nylea
Out: 3x Thoughtseize, 1x Polukranos, World Eater, 1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
I decided to cut my overall cost down a little and keep the removal in it. I suspected Herald of Torment would be showing up as well.
Game 2: Pleasantly my suspicions paid off. I seen exactly 1 Herald of Torment this game. Drown in Sorrow + Bile Blight are just tremendously good against these fast aggro decks. Snowballed a win off the back of back to back Drown in Sorrow followed up with Fleecemane Lion, 2 Courser of Kruphix and Wingmate Roc
This is the 1st option I described. In this situation Fleecemane Lion does the same thing... but better.
I also tested Rakshasa Deathdealer. I agree he is powerful but he is not "skill intensive"... he's mana intensive. The problem with the Deathdealer is that in order to get your money's worth out of him you needed to invest a good deal of mana on him every single turn. This would often force you in a position where you you either had to 1- Leave the Rakshasa Deathdealeras a vanilla 2/2 so you could play your other high impact spells. 2- Not play your high impact spells and hedge the game on Rakshasa Deathdealer. or 3-Use your mana in terribly inefficient ways. Now lets throw multiples on the board and see how it gets out of hand.
On top of that. "Hold two mana up for removal." In our colors we have Bile Blight and Last Breath for playable 2 mana removal. Not really worth trying to manufacture your mana in a way to pull this off ever turn. As a matter of fact with the way I play I'd probably call that bluff pretty much every time in the current standard format.
I think Nissa and Elspeth almost fill the same spot in the deck. Elspeth, while great, doesn't do much vs some match ups (Jeskai Tempo) while Nissa excels in that match up. The opposite side of that coin is Elspeth is great in certain match ups (Mono Green Devo) that Nissa just doesn't do well in.
To that end I feel that both should be in the 75 but maybe not both in the main.
So now my list is...
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Fleecemane Lion
3 Courser of Kruphix
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Polukranos, World Eater
4 Siege Rhino
2 Wingmate Roc
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells (13)
3 Abzan Charm
2 Drown in Sorrow
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Utter End
3 Thoughtseize
3 Llanowar Wastes
2 Caves of Koilos
1 Plains
3 Forest
3 Sandsteppe Citadel
4 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Silence
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Windswept Heath
2 Deicide
3 Despise
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Bileblight
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Bow of Nylea
2 Empty the Pits
Reasoning for changes.
Caves of Koilos over Sandsteppe Citadel was to have another land that comes into play untapped. I found I was having some issues some games where I didn't have a turn two play because of how many tapped lands I was running. It wasn't happening too often but more often then I'd like. This change should help with consistency and the only thing I lose is an extra Green source that really wasn't needed.
Empty the Pits is coming into the side over Whip of Erebos and Silence the Believers. I found that I had plenty of removal in the 75 but what I needed was another late game high impact spell to close out grindy games. Empty the Pits is exactly that.
It's probably bad in the mirror because of Bile Blight though. But that's why Nissa, Worldwaker is there.
1. I recommend 4 Fleecemane Lion instead of a 2/2 split with Rakshasa Deathdealer. This is a little experience talking. I experimanted with Rakshasa Deathdealer early on and while it was good, Fleecemane Lion is just better.
2. I'd cut the Ajani, Mentor of Heroes entirely myself. He just doesn't seem to have a large enough impact on the game at least when I've played him (admitedly this was back before Khans dropped in.)
3. Drop 1 land and pick up another Utter End.
4. You are really going to want to run something like 4x Sylvan Caryatid, 3-4x Courser of Kruphix, 4x Siege Rhino with a supporting cast mix of Fleecemane Lion, Wingmate Roc, Polukranos, World Eater, Anafenza, the Foremost, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Herald of Torment, Brain Maggot, Heir of the Wilds or heck... even Hundred Handed One. Design the creature base to match your play style. Don't just copy/paste a list.
5. I'd try to tighten up the sideboard. 1-ofs in the sideboard are usually going to be things that fill a similar roll to other cards in your main that you may want more of. For instance. Hero's Downfall and Silence the Believers ultimately fill the same spot in the deck (with Silence the Believers having a bonus of hitting more then 1 target late game). Hero's Downfall is the better card most often so this would be in your main. However there are some match ups where you need more removal! Silence the Believers would come in there.
An argument could be made for Drown in Sorrow here as well. Just food for thought.
I'm sorry it pisses you off. I'm not going to say much more then what other people have done except results speak volumes. To believe you are the only person with this train of though it beyond arrogant or beyond asinine so I'm going to assume you don't believe you are alone in this.
With that being said lets look at results. How many successful Abzan Midrange decks are running Elspeth, Sun's Champion in their list? Well lucky for us we have a fancy spreadsheet that tells us exactly that.
Lets see... 16/18! Of these decks Most ran her as a 2-or-more-of.
It's safe to assume that because of the results posted by top decks that Elspeth is an important part. This is also reflected by the fact that Elspeth was in each decklist that took 1st, and in each of those she was a minimum of 3 in the main.
If you don't feel Elspeth is needed in your build then fantastic! There are at least 2 decks in our set that have posted successful results without her. It can be done! But keep in mind that there are a number of successful results that speak against this point of view.
Now on to Courser... Yup 18/18... ... Must be something there.
The reasons these two cards are in successful lists have been previously stated as well.
Judging from the beautiful data chart that Charm_Master3125 has given us we can assume this is the "core" of a successful Abzan Midrange deck.
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Fleecemane Lion
4 Siege Rhino
4 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Spells
2 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Drown in Sorrow
With good ideas being (10+ Decks using on the list)
Anafenza, the Foremost
Brimaz, King of Oreskos
Wingmate Roc
Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Bile Blight
Thoughtseize
Utter End
I find it interesting how some of the generally considered staples in some spots (Nyx-Fleece Ram in the side, Murderous Cut somewhere) were ommited from so many lists. Also I see no mention of Polukranos, World Eater. But that may be because I think he was ran in exactly 1 deck from what I remember.
All in all this is great. Makes me feel pretty freaking good about my list!
I can tell you that the California State Champ played 2 Windswept Heath.
Other then that I'm eager to see the data here as I will not have time to actually sit down and crunch numbers on anything for a few weeks. Are you going to make this data fully public on this forum or via something like a google doc spreadsheet? Either way I'm extremely interested in what we see.
Did you do this for opening weekend as well?
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26855_Thoughtseize-You.html
I've chosen to play Thoughtseize but not as a turn 1, 2, 3 or 4 play. Specifically it's a play that lets me set up the best possible situation for my mid/late game if the opponent has a hand. I don't think there's much of a good reason to play Thoughtseize on turn 1 if you have tapped land in hand. Or on turn two if you have Caryatid/Fleecemain in hand. Play the stuff on Curve and use Thoughtseize to force your opponent to play in a way that is inefficient or as a means to push your important plays through.
That doesn't mean my way of thinking is more right or wrong then riliss's or others who have cut Thoughtseize from their lists. It's just another angle to consider when choosing Thoughtseize.
That being said I would have to say the "Core" of the deck is very simple. Outside of this there is plenty of wiggle room (This is my opinion and my starting point when I re-evaluate the build). The generally accepted formula seems to be 18-25 Creatures, 2-5 Planeswalkers, 8-15 Other Spells, 23-24 Land.
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Fleecemane Lion
3 Courser of Kruphix
4 Seige Rhino
2 Abzan Charm
3 Hero's Downfall
2 Elspeth