If you dump enough stuff into your GY, Gnaw to the Bone is an option. I run it in my Varolz self-mill deck and have gained 40+ life from just flashing it back.
Token decks generally don't work that way; creature cards are more used for utility that just coincidentally can attack and block.
GTTB is a possibility for graveyard decks, albeit still suffering from card disadvantage if you don't feature some Necropotence-like card draw engine, but Ghave is not a graveyard deck per se. Ghave does use death triggers, it's embarrassingly easy to get infinite death triggers (and then use Jar of Eyeballs to grab Zulaport Cutthroat or some such to win the game), but what's in your graveyard doesn't matter so much (other than staples, key cards which you can recur easily because green, and some flashback spells that make tokens or +1/+1 counters). If I had a lot of creatures in my Ghave, I'd probably run Kessig Cagebreakers or Spider Spawning first.
And generally, I cast GTTB from my graveyard with flashback. So no worries on card disadvantage. Also, maybe worth noting that this deck is intentionally powered down for my meta. Always good to have the option of a less powerful deck.
If you dump enough stuff into your GY, Gnaw to the Bone is an option. I run it in my Varolz self-mill deck and have gained 40+ life from just flashing it back.
With the new mulligan rules, is anyone thinking about running 8x Leylines? I know people have done it from time to time in LE. The odds of finding one or both are pretty high. Sanctity just doesn’t seem nearly as necessary as The Void right now though. Still, I wonder if we’ll see an uptick in combo since it’ll be a little easier to dig for pieces. Just curious what y’all’s thoughts are. I live under a rock, so I just found out about the rule change.
I’ve done it in the past. I definitely think 4x LotV make sense, plus 3-4 Faeries in the MB. I don’t believe the mulligan rule has officially been changed yet, so there is that.
Though I believe Leylines have seriously spiked since they announced there would be testing. So possibly too late either way.
I’m a big proponent of the “build mean, play nice” philosophy. I have Wildfire and Keldon Firebombers in my Xantcha deck, though I will not play those if my opponents are playing some low-powered decks. If my opponents try to do degenerate stuff, you better believe I’m going to tutor up something nasty. Similarly, I have a Lavinia, Azorius Renegade in the sideboard of my Zedruu deck which runs both Knowledge Pool and Possibility Storm.
I believe whatever makes the game enjoyable for the greatest number of people is the correct play.
The biggest example to this kind of issue has come up with Insurrection. My big, dumb battlecruiser deck has the best, spookiest board, and can kill the table if blockers are cleared with the mass mind control.
I respond by conceding. One player is salty, I’ve definitely lost (though helped play kingmaker), while two more players are still in the game- net political positive for the next game, and the current game continues with 2/3rd content.
Usually, the insurrection player is then allowed the classic take backsies and can use their turn and mana differently, essentially killing target player for nothing! Lots of ways around it without taking away the agency of concession at whatever speed you want.
That is most definitely poor form.. If that's what floats your boat then go ahead, but I wouldn't sit at the table with you again, even if it did benefit me in that particular instance.
Which would absolutely be your prerogative- though, if you were at the table strongly decrying the move, and not just silently accepting it since it gives you a benefit, it wouldn't be a move I'd make. A concession can be very powerful politically but, if it didn't actually result in a net-positive for the table then there isn't any point. Now, in my case, the "poor sportmanlike" behavior falls squarely on the group instead of just my move, but that's all part of the fun for me; I enjoy seeing how far the social contract can be stretched if people think they're getting a good deal.
Now, again, we also house ruled it as essentially "zero mana: eliminate a player, start your turn over," (letting the insurrection player take back said play to keep the game going as a group) which is a key detail for making it actually fun. I love house rules.
I imagine your group feels pretty unfun to new players.
My mono-blue deck runs Overburden. If you play black you could run Spreading Plague. Both of those cards are extremely difficult for creature decks to beat because they can never establish a board.
One other plan against U/W is just avoid going all in. They aren’t going to beat us quickly. Generally, try to blow up their nonbasics while and get to 5 lands. Then start hardcasting draft chaff. If they counter it, fine, you can cascade later. If they Path it, you have more lands to cast fatties. Play Simian Spirit Guide as a 2/2 and beat down. Eventually they have to tap out to answer and you can hopefully kill them in one shot.
With so many creatures in your list, have you considered Lurking Predators? It looks like it would hit creatures fairly often and I like how it pays for itself quickly in a lot of cases.
It definitely should hit a creature fairly often. My main concern is it has a high CMC. Additionally, it’s a bit of an attention grabbing card, which is generally at odds with the rest of the deck as many of the cards are basically considered unplayable in EDH by most players.
Indeed! I was missing Turnabout.
Depends on the build. My Varolz deck is built of 40+ creatures, uses a lot of dredge and sac abilities and also makes a decent number of tokens. I use Crawling Sensation, Ulvenwald Mysteries, Call the Bloodline and various Eldrazi token makers to fuel the draw engines of Fecundity, Dark Prophecy, and Skullclamp. I use Abundance and Underrealm Lich as ways to turbo dump the cards into the yard.
And generally, I cast GTTB from my graveyard with flashback. So no worries on card disadvantage. Also, maybe worth noting that this deck is intentionally powered down for my meta. Always good to have the option of a less powerful deck.
I’ve done it in the past. I definitely think 4x LotV make sense, plus 3-4 Faeries in the MB. I don’t believe the mulligan rule has officially been changed yet, so there is that.
Though I believe Leylines have seriously spiked since they announced there would be testing. So possibly too late either way.
I imagine your group feels pretty unfun to new players.
FWIW, I think Jeskai Ascendancy is a card to consider even if you wanted everything to be guilded. It works so well with Kiora’s Follower/Zhur-Taa Druid/Draconic Disciple/Deathrite Shaman/Atzocan Seer.
It definitely should hit a creature fairly often. My main concern is it has a high CMC. Additionally, it’s a bit of an attention grabbing card, which is generally at odds with the rest of the deck as many of the cards are basically considered unplayable in EDH by most players.
You monster.