I understand that the Esper thread is available, but as far as what the deck does, it is really more UW control than Esper control. I basically replaced 4 cards with 4 Fatal Push and added Ashiok without really changing what the deck does, so I feel I'm kind of caught in between 2 decks.
I know this is the UW control thread. I am playing UWb control with a minor black Splash. Since my version is closer to UW control than it is to the actual Esper control deck, would it be ok to share a list here to get feedback? I don't want to hijack the thread with my build if you want to limit it to just UW control.
I was hoping to get some thoughts on replacing 1 Nature's Claim with a Reclamation Sage. Sage costs more, but has a body and can be tutored by Summoner's Pact if the need is there.
Quick summary of rounds:
Rd 1 vs burn (2-1):
Game 1:
Opponent leads off with swiftspear + mutagenic growth, into T2 Eidolon. My first 2 turns, I play Search into Khalni Heart Expedition. My opponent beats me down to 3, but T4 I Scapeshift for 18 for the win
Game 2 (out 2 khalni heart, 1 farseek in 2 Baloth, Thragtusk:
I have to mulligan to 6 and don't see any SB cards, or anything of value, my opponent beats me down before I can Scapeshift
Game 3 (out 2 explore, in 2 khalni heart):
I keep an aggressive hand with Khalni Heart Expedition, ramp and Scapeshift. My opponent kept a 1-land hand, GG.
Round 2 vs budget Infect (2-1):
Game 1: I keep a hand with Bolt, and some decent ramp (knowing my opponent plays infect, bolt seemed perfect). I bolt his turn 2 Ichorclaw Myr, and ramp into Scapeshift before he can kill me
Game 2 (out 1 Explore, 2 Khalni Heart. In: Anger of the Gods, 2 Spellskite): Bolt his turn 1 Elf, but lose to a T2 Blighted Agent (and Become Immense)
Game 3: Keep a hand with Anger of the Gods, Ramp and Titan. My opponent mulls to 5 and I Anger away his lone creature. Ride to Titan to victory.
Round 3 vs Restore Balance (2-1):
Game 1: He Manage a restore balance to bring me down to 1 land from 5. With a Khalni Heart in play I play a forest from my hand into Khalni Heart, into Tribe Elder. With 2 lands in play (and my opponent on 18, at end of his turn, sac tribe elder, bringing 1 KHE to 3, sace KHE, bringing the second to 3, have 6 lands in play). On my turn play land 7 from hand and Scapeshift for the win
Game 2 (out 4 Lightning Bolt, 2 Anger of the Gods, 2 Explore. In: 2 Baloth, 1 Thragtusk, 2 Ancient Grudge, 3 Nature's Claim)
I Nature's Claim his first Borderpost, but he lands a Blood Moon and restore balances away 2 basics. Unable to get to double green, I punt by casting Summoner's Pact for Tribe-Elder (unable to get a second forest).
Game 3: T2 and T3 Ancient Grudge set him back far enough. I manage to get Titan in play, which beats him down until his suspended Gargadon blocks it. I play Titan 2. He swings with Gargadon. I swing back, and Scapeshift into Search for Tomorrow for exactly lethal (I had to find 2 Valakut for my 2 forests, and could not Scapeshift directly for the win).
;
Round 4 vs Grixis Delver (2-1).
Game 1: I start Aggressive with Search into Khalni Heart. Tribe-Elder gets countered, but with 7 lands into play, I manage to Play Scapeshift with enough mana to pay for Mana Leak
Game 2 (Out 2 Anger, 2 Courser of Kruphix in: Thragtusk, Gaea's Revenge, 2 Baloth):
Opponent plays T2, Tasigur, T3 Collective Brutality and Surgical for Scapeshift. I cannot find Titan to win
Game 3 (Out 2 Baloth, in 2 Courser):
My opponent gets T2 Tasigur, T4 Scapeshift sees Countersquall, T5 Prime Time and valakut triggers bring him down to 3. T6, Titan swings in without an answer.
For my first tournament with this deck, I was pleasantly surprised by the resilience of the deck. I dreaded playing the restore balance deck, and KHE was MVP in that match-up. I have read some discussions about KHE, and in my case, KHE won me 4 games I would have otherwise lost (because I would have been a turn slower). KHE was the difference between 4-0 and 1-3 for the night.
Moving forward: I did not play a single Courser of Kruphix the entire night, but it seems like it is a decent card. Would consider other options, such as Chandra or Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Really hoping to find some EE for my sideboard, which would definitely improve the sideboard. I feel Spellskite fills in fine with several infect and Boggles players in my lgs.
Thanks for posting all the decklists here and for all the discussions. I really enjoyed reading the primer and suggestions while building my deck (PS: Yes, I know I play 61 cards MB. Always been a personal preference).
I'm not sure if this is the best place to start my search. I will be moving to Boone, NC this summer, and I am not finding much information related to MTG stores in the area (closest store on WotC website is 24 miles). Anyone who can point me in the right direction for a playgroup or store in that area?
I will be adding 2 Ceremonius Rejection to my SB. It can hit a lot of things (Eldrazi, Ugin/Karn, Artifacts).
I did bring in Deflecting Palm against Eldrazi, and used it on Ulamog. Unfortunately, I never got enough early pressure to take advantage of it. I may want to try Kari Zev's Expertise too.
I agree that Saheeli doesn't make much sense for me. I'd rather have the extra creature.
Rd 1 vs Naya Allies (2-0)
Lifegain on my opponent's side was annoying, but Mentor and combat tricks stole the show.
Rd 2 vs Eldrazi (0-2)
Game 1: I couldn't get enough pressure before TKS and Smasher sealed the deal for my opponent
Game 2: EE on 0 with Mentor in my opening 6 (after a mulligan) wasn't ideal. Deflecting Palm on Ulamog almost got me there, but just couldn't find the Burn spell of the top.
Rd 3 vs Budget infect (2-1)
Gm 1: I get blown out by pump + counter backup
Gm 2: I have a hand with removal + countermagic, which I ride until I find a Delver that slowly gets me there
Gm 3: Spellskite + removal + countermagic makes me keep my hand. My opponent doesn't play removal, so Spellskite seals the deal
Rd 4 vs Esper Gifts (ID)
we played some games for fun, and he got me each game with timely removal.
Overall, I am hit and miss on peek. In some games, information can be crucial, but it is definitely not always a greet card. Didn't see Saheeli all night long, but I feel there was never a moment where I would have wanted her (Clique just seems better). I really like Mentor, but Aggro doesn't seem like the right shell for him. He can absolutely take games on his own, but more countermagic and a midrange seems more appropriate for him.
I had fun playing the deck, and feel that Ceremonius Rejection could be an option in the SB (I'll likely keep seeing Eldrazi/Tron at my LGS).
Thanks for the feedback I got from you all. I feel that some of the minor changes I made before playing definitely improved the deck.
I am yet to complete Titanshift (4 cards away). However, when I played Tooth and Nail, I ran Back to Nature vs Boggles alongside Spellskite. In addition to taking out Boggles' auras, it also takes out possible leylines at the cost of 1 card. That being said, it is narrow (although I have encountered an enchantment based Prison deck at my lgs).
First off, I really like the strategy this deck utilizes. Kill them quickly and if they interact either land a mentor and take over or burn them out.
I like that you included Peek in your list a lot because it is very important to have plenty of cantrips in a mentor build and it's super helpful to know if the coast is clear to play mentor. While I typcially only play one Boros Charm I do think they gain additional value in a mentor/young p build to protect your army so running two here is great. Another card that gains a ton of value in a mentor build is Jeskai Charm. As Twanicus mentioned to another poster, I too tend to sell this card short as well because I haven't played it much. It's great in some of our worse matchups and if I played Mentor maindeck I would likely play 1 or two of these.
I know I have said this a lot above, but mentor changes the way decks are built. He is so strong he can take over games, but he is a bit fragile. I think Mutagenic Growth is a great card in a Mentor build especially one running swiftspear as well. With that said, I don't think you want a full playset. I would probably suggest running 2 copies. I feel like you want a few more versatile spells in the deck and possibly more cantrips. Another card I have yet to test is Noxious Revival so I can't give to much advice as to how strong this card is in the deck.
If I were to make any changes I would likely cut two mutagenic growth and 1 lightning helix (as you have 2 boros charm and jeskai charm so your a bit heavy on burn) and add at least two Path to Exile and two cantrips such as Sleight of Hand. I know path is a nonbo sometimes with the deck's strategy, but sometimes it's just the only answer we have to some threats. If you don't like mainboard paths I would suggest adding a few sideboard and possibly bring the swerve in to the mainboard.
As for the sideboard, what are the Rending Volley in the deck for? If your meta is heavy in merfolk and or saheeli rai combo I totally understand, I was just interested to find out. I have noticed that the saheeli rai combo has been skyrocketing in some recent events so we may need to add these back into our boards anyways.
Let me know what you think about my suggestions and how the deck performs. Thanks again for posting it!
Hello,
Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't sure of what to replace the Gitaxian Probes with. I figured one additional Mutagenic Growth and Peek made sense. Not sure on Noxious Revival. It just seemed it could be useful in various ways (get back something useful or mess up an opponents draw). I added it to test. I could see myself cutting 1/2 Growth + Revival for 2 more Peek and Path?
As far as cutting Lightning Helix. There is a good amount of aggro and/or burn. I feel that in those matchups Helix would shine.
Rending Volley: We have 1 resident merfolk player, and Kira is annoying. I figured this would warrant the Rending volleys. Also, there is no graveyard based decks, so therefore no GY hate, making room for Spellskite (vs boggles). Overall I tuned my SB to my lgs.
I appreciate the feedback, and will definitely consider different options as I play more.
I have been following this thread for a few weeks now since I am seriously considering buying into TitanShift. I do have some questions thought. My LGS is mostly aggro (2 Boggles, 1 Infect, Merfolk, Grixis Delver, Eldrazi and Taxes, Burn and some homebrews). In such a metagame, does it make sense to drop down to 2 farseek, 2 explore alongside 4 Searh and 3 KHE and run more Anger of the Gods / Engineered Explosives / Spellksite mb? Does sacrificing some land search in favor of pre-board removal make sense?
I play tested several games on cockatrice, and I really like the deck. I am just concerned about the Aggro matchups since aside from Tribe-Elder and Bolt, the maindeck usually doesn't run much disruption.
Also, what sideboard advice do you have for such a metagame? I was thinking of the following:
4 Anger of the Gods main (since it is the most broad answer - although I could see an argument for a 2/2 split with Explosives
SB would be:
2 Engineered Explosives (or 2 Anger if EE goes main)
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Gaea's Revenge (we have some occasional UB control)
3 Nature's Claim
2 Back to Nature (2 boggles players)
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Spellskite
1 Crumble to Dust
PS: I often end up running 61 cards main (personal preference), so I can always pack an extra Explore / Pia and Kiran Nalaar / ...
Splendid Reclamation with Cobra in play is pretty insane too. Cobra is a great combo engine that allows for extremely explosive turns.
Upkeep, I have noticed you went away from the Stax-elements. Do you ever miss them? While I haven't really abused something like Smokestack yet, Winter Orb has proven it's worth. To me, I see the Stax elements as a backup plan if we are forced to grind out games. Maybe I'm wrong, and we should go all-in on trying to combo for lethal in a turn?
I currently play Akroma's Memorial to give creatures haste (as a back up to Concordant Crossroads). Are there any better options out there that I may be missing?
I understand that the Esper thread is available, but as far as what the deck does, it is really more UW control than Esper control. I basically replaced 4 cards with 4 Fatal Push and added Ashiok without really changing what the deck does, so I feel I'm kind of caught in between 2 decks.
I do appreciate the feedback!
I know this is the UW control thread. I am playing UWb control with a minor black Splash. Since my version is closer to UW control than it is to the actual Esper control deck, would it be ok to share a list here to get feedback? I don't want to hijack the thread with my build if you want to limit it to just UW control.
Thanks,
Dennis
I was hoping to get some thoughts on replacing 1 Nature's Claim with a Reclamation Sage. Sage costs more, but has a body and can be tutored by Summoner's Pact if the need is there.
Thoughts?
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Cinder Glade
2 Stomping Ground
3 Forest
7 Mountain
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Primeval Titan
2 Courser of Kruphix
Spells
4 Scapeshift
4 Search for Tomorrow
3 Explore
2 Farseek
2 Summoner's Pact
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Anger of the Gods
3 Khalni Heart Expedition
3 Nature's Claim
2 Spellskite
1 Gaea's Revenge
1 Thragtusk
2 Obstinate Baloth
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Crumble to Dust
1 Back to Nature
Quick summary of rounds:
Rd 1 vs burn (2-1):
Game 1:
Opponent leads off with swiftspear + mutagenic growth, into T2 Eidolon. My first 2 turns, I play Search into Khalni Heart Expedition. My opponent beats me down to 3, but T4 I Scapeshift for 18 for the win
Game 2 (out 2 khalni heart, 1 farseek in 2 Baloth, Thragtusk:
I have to mulligan to 6 and don't see any SB cards, or anything of value, my opponent beats me down before I can Scapeshift
Game 3 (out 2 explore, in 2 khalni heart):
I keep an aggressive hand with Khalni Heart Expedition, ramp and Scapeshift. My opponent kept a 1-land hand, GG.
Round 2 vs budget Infect (2-1):
Game 1: I keep a hand with Bolt, and some decent ramp (knowing my opponent plays infect, bolt seemed perfect). I bolt his turn 2 Ichorclaw Myr, and ramp into Scapeshift before he can kill me
Game 2 (out 1 Explore, 2 Khalni Heart. In: Anger of the Gods, 2 Spellskite): Bolt his turn 1 Elf, but lose to a T2 Blighted Agent (and Become Immense)
Game 3: Keep a hand with Anger of the Gods, Ramp and Titan. My opponent mulls to 5 and I Anger away his lone creature. Ride to Titan to victory.
Round 3 vs Restore Balance (2-1):
Game 1: He Manage a restore balance to bring me down to 1 land from 5. With a Khalni Heart in play I play a forest from my hand into Khalni Heart, into Tribe Elder. With 2 lands in play (and my opponent on 18, at end of his turn, sac tribe elder, bringing 1 KHE to 3, sace KHE, bringing the second to 3, have 6 lands in play). On my turn play land 7 from hand and Scapeshift for the win
Game 2 (out 4 Lightning Bolt, 2 Anger of the Gods, 2 Explore. In: 2 Baloth, 1 Thragtusk, 2 Ancient Grudge, 3 Nature's Claim)
I Nature's Claim his first Borderpost, but he lands a Blood Moon and restore balances away 2 basics. Unable to get to double green, I punt by casting Summoner's Pact for Tribe-Elder (unable to get a second forest).
Game 3: T2 and T3 Ancient Grudge set him back far enough. I manage to get Titan in play, which beats him down until his suspended Gargadon blocks it. I play Titan 2. He swings with Gargadon. I swing back, and Scapeshift into Search for Tomorrow for exactly lethal (I had to find 2 Valakut for my 2 forests, and could not Scapeshift directly for the win).
;
Round 4 vs Grixis Delver (2-1).
Game 1: I start Aggressive with Search into Khalni Heart. Tribe-Elder gets countered, but with 7 lands into play, I manage to Play Scapeshift with enough mana to pay for Mana Leak
Game 2 (Out 2 Anger, 2 Courser of Kruphix in: Thragtusk, Gaea's Revenge, 2 Baloth):
Opponent plays T2, Tasigur, T3 Collective Brutality and Surgical for Scapeshift. I cannot find Titan to win
Game 3 (Out 2 Baloth, in 2 Courser):
My opponent gets T2 Tasigur, T4 Scapeshift sees Countersquall, T5 Prime Time and valakut triggers bring him down to 3. T6, Titan swings in without an answer.
For my first tournament with this deck, I was pleasantly surprised by the resilience of the deck. I dreaded playing the restore balance deck, and KHE was MVP in that match-up. I have read some discussions about KHE, and in my case, KHE won me 4 games I would have otherwise lost (because I would have been a turn slower). KHE was the difference between 4-0 and 1-3 for the night.
Moving forward: I did not play a single Courser of Kruphix the entire night, but it seems like it is a decent card. Would consider other options, such as Chandra or Pia and Kiran Nalaar. Really hoping to find some EE for my sideboard, which would definitely improve the sideboard. I feel Spellskite fills in fine with several infect and Boggles players in my lgs.
Thanks for posting all the decklists here and for all the discussions. I really enjoyed reading the primer and suggestions while building my deck (PS: Yes, I know I play 61 cards MB. Always been a personal preference).
I'm not sure if this is the best place to start my search. I will be moving to Boone, NC this summer, and I am not finding much information related to MTG stores in the area (closest store on WotC website is 24 miles). Anyone who can point me in the right direction for a playgroup or store in that area?
Thanks!
I did bring in Deflecting Palm against Eldrazi, and used it on Ulamog. Unfortunately, I never got enough early pressure to take advantage of it. I may want to try Kari Zev's Expertise too.
I agree that Saheeli doesn't make much sense for me. I'd rather have the extra creature.
4 delver of secrets
4 snapcaster mage
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Monastery Mentor
Sorceries:
4 serum visions
Instants:
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
2 boros charm
2 vapor snag
2 jeskai Charm
4 Peek
2 Mutagenic Growth
2 Path to Exile
1 Saheeli Rai
Lands:
1 scalding tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 flooded strand
1 Steam vents
1 sacred foundry
1 hallowed fountain
4 spirebluff canal
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 seachrome coast
2 island
1 mountain
1 plains
3 Deflecting Palm
2 Rending Volley
2 wear//tear
2 negate
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spellskite
1 Swerve
1 Vendilion Clique
Went 2-1-1
Rd 1 vs Naya Allies (2-0)
Lifegain on my opponent's side was annoying, but Mentor and combat tricks stole the show.
Rd 2 vs Eldrazi (0-2)
Game 1: I couldn't get enough pressure before TKS and Smasher sealed the deal for my opponent
Game 2: EE on 0 with Mentor in my opening 6 (after a mulligan) wasn't ideal. Deflecting Palm on Ulamog almost got me there, but just couldn't find the Burn spell of the top.
Rd 3 vs Budget infect (2-1)
Gm 1: I get blown out by pump + counter backup
Gm 2: I have a hand with removal + countermagic, which I ride until I find a Delver that slowly gets me there
Gm 3: Spellskite + removal + countermagic makes me keep my hand. My opponent doesn't play removal, so Spellskite seals the deal
Rd 4 vs Esper Gifts (ID)
we played some games for fun, and he got me each game with timely removal.
Overall, I am hit and miss on peek. In some games, information can be crucial, but it is definitely not always a greet card. Didn't see Saheeli all night long, but I feel there was never a moment where I would have wanted her (Clique just seems better). I really like Mentor, but Aggro doesn't seem like the right shell for him. He can absolutely take games on his own, but more countermagic and a midrange seems more appropriate for him.
I had fun playing the deck, and feel that Ceremonius Rejection could be an option in the SB (I'll likely keep seeing Eldrazi/Tron at my LGS).
Thanks for the feedback I got from you all. I feel that some of the minor changes I made before playing definitely improved the deck.
Hello,
Thanks for the feedback. I wasn't sure of what to replace the Gitaxian Probes with. I figured one additional Mutagenic Growth and Peek made sense. Not sure on Noxious Revival. It just seemed it could be useful in various ways (get back something useful or mess up an opponents draw). I added it to test. I could see myself cutting 1/2 Growth + Revival for 2 more Peek and Path?
As far as cutting Lightning Helix. There is a good amount of aggro and/or burn. I feel that in those matchups Helix would shine.
Rending Volley: We have 1 resident merfolk player, and Kira is annoying. I figured this would warrant the Rending volleys. Also, there is no graveyard based decks, so therefore no GY hate, making room for Spellskite (vs boggles). Overall I tuned my SB to my lgs.
I appreciate the feedback, and will definitely consider different options as I play more.
Saheeli is my fun card. I may end up cutting her, but would like to try playing with her.
I was hoping to get some feedback for my deck. I was thinking about playing this at my lgs' modern FNM's.
4 delver of secrets
4 snapcaster mage
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Monastery Mentor
Sorceries:
4 serum visions
Instants:
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
2 boros charm
3 vapor snag
2 jeskai Charm
2 Peek
4 Mutagenic Growth
1 noxious revival
1 Saheeli Rai
Lands:
1 scalding tarn
1 Arid Mesa
4 flooded strand
1 Steam vents
1 sacred foundry
1 hallowed fountain
4 spirebluff canal
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 seachrome coast
2 island
1 mountain
1 plains
3 Deflecting Palm
2 Rending Volley
2 wear//tear
2 negate
2 dispel
2 Spellskite
1 Swerve
1 Blessed Alliance
I have been following this thread for a few weeks now since I am seriously considering buying into TitanShift. I do have some questions thought. My LGS is mostly aggro (2 Boggles, 1 Infect, Merfolk, Grixis Delver, Eldrazi and Taxes, Burn and some homebrews). In such a metagame, does it make sense to drop down to 2 farseek, 2 explore alongside 4 Searh and 3 KHE and run more Anger of the Gods / Engineered Explosives / Spellksite mb? Does sacrificing some land search in favor of pre-board removal make sense?
I play tested several games on cockatrice, and I really like the deck. I am just concerned about the Aggro matchups since aside from Tribe-Elder and Bolt, the maindeck usually doesn't run much disruption.
Also, what sideboard advice do you have for such a metagame? I was thinking of the following:
4 Anger of the Gods main (since it is the most broad answer - although I could see an argument for a 2/2 split with Explosives
SB would be:
2 Engineered Explosives (or 2 Anger if EE goes main)
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Gaea's Revenge (we have some occasional UB control)
3 Nature's Claim
2 Back to Nature (2 boggles players)
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Spellskite
1 Crumble to Dust
PS: I often end up running 61 cards main (personal preference), so I can always pack an extra Explore / Pia and Kiran Nalaar / ...
Upkeep, I have noticed you went away from the Stax-elements. Do you ever miss them? While I haven't really abused something like Smokestack yet, Winter Orb has proven it's worth. To me, I see the Stax elements as a backup plan if we are forced to grind out games. Maybe I'm wrong, and we should go all-in on trying to combo for lethal in a turn?
I currently play Akroma's Memorial to give creatures haste (as a back up to Concordant Crossroads). Are there any better options out there that I may be missing?