Entomb is very good in the list, it does silly things with snapcaster / jace / kess, also bolas flips and can reanimate planeswalkers so end of turn find god-pharaoh put in big, untap flip downtick to reanimate other bolas planewalker is very powerful. Nezahal seems good also looking at Jin. I suspect Mind Twist is much stronger then hailfire but I've never seen anyone cast hailfire for anything all too impressive outside of mono black lists.
I live in the Seattle area and so my pods dent range from highly tooned cEDH list where I just play Baral or Teferi, to focused tooned decks.
I think most of the planeswalkers are very solid Death's Majesty is rather loose but all of the 3 mana planeswalkers are incredibly powerful. Dack steals signets / sol ring / crypts. Most lists do not run creatures that can attack into a 4/4 and they all either protect themselves or generate incredible value very quickly. Lilly of the veil, everyone discard > bolas + Lilly everyone discard, ruins everyone at the table very quickly.
I'll take another look at your list and see if I glean any gems.
I've been playing around with a new list for a few weeks. Any thoughts always welcome. I really appreciate the exchange of ideas. The goal is to engineer a interactive control list that aims to win after most combo decks have fizzled out. The deck currently supports quite a lot of recursion. Cuts / Notable missing cards etc. Please let me know.
@Weebo - I have played Primal Amulet. It was alright. I found people just would blew it up "just because" there was nothing else threatening when I played in more casual pods and in more competitive pods it just was too slow. I have used Mirage Mirror to copy goggles once so I could triple cast something but you loss your goggles doing that. The Amulet is great if people let you flip it but I found that it didn't happen enough. It's silly if you have flipped amulet and either goggles or mirror.
On Karn, I've just found that my list is hostile like yours to creatures which makes protecting walkers a a fairly safe plan. I've liked him. If you're looking for an upgrade to something like Outpost Siege he's great but I would recommend using one of the old school titans so you can shuffle him back into your library. I've never found that I've lost something however and really do like that I get the cards in my hand.
@Stumphead - Welcome man. Hope you read over some of the other peoples lists. This is one of the few forum posts I find myself drifting back to regularly over the years. I just love the deck. Always happy to get Weebo's take on cards coming out from the new sets as well.
@Weebo - Karn has been solid. Mostly a better Out Post Siege which sometimes drops big betters. Because my list runs so many planewalkers I find all of his abilities to be relevant. Switching over to the OG Kozilek allows me to recast him later in the game and pick up cards that have silver counters on them. Also it's interesting as karn has so much loyalty that usually its safe to drop him on turn 3-4 and start up ticking him. I could see running other cards in his slot but he fits the "theme" of the deck for me and provides blockers or draws cards doesn't die to Ugin or All is Dust. Jaya's Inferno is bonkers for my list. I run enough planewalkers and legends I'm rarely worried about that cast requirements and Commit Storm / Jaya's Inferno / Rolling Earthquake off a Goggles or Mana Doubler or Mana Geyser is usually how I win games. It's just a better Commit Storm usually.
@Flux277 - glad someone else is having success with the looting package. I think Pyromancer Goggles is just and insanely powerful effect having made us of it I can't see ever playing a mostly red deck and not wanting to use it.
I'll look to make some changes again likely soon. Had a great game recently where Chandra ToD was about to ultimate early into a game but was tucked under an O-Ring. Only for me to later stabilize from Theros Gods beating my face in by having Ugin blow up the board leaving me with an Ugin and Chandra who managed to get there with the support of a double sworded up Godo.
A lot of your lands. Evolving Wilds, Field of Ruin, Ghost Quarter, Tectonic Edge, Terramorphic Expanse. All seem like cuts for Basic swamp. Or The good fetch lands but you don't run Evolving Wilds in this list over a swamp. It's just going to slow you down a turn and you have enough tutoring that if you need a strip mine effect which is rare you can tutor for it.
I would fit Liliana of the Dark Realms as it is another way for you to on shot people. Also another reason to run heavy on the basics.
This list is rather explored already so you can find a lot of ideas. I like Ugin and Karn Liberated for these lists if you're going a more controlling route as they give you game against permanent types you are otherwise are blank to.
I can say I have found Alhammarret's Archive to be one of the best cards in the deck if not The Best. Even when benefiting from a wheel effect and drawing 14 I am happy.
I've really been disapointed by Torch of Defiance but its just such a flavor win. I'll likely be cutting it for baby Karn if I can get my hands on one.
Quick Note: 2DH is a local budget format that I play in the Seattle area at Card Kingdom / Mox Boarding House. Currently the rules require that every card has a tournament legal version which has a TCG mid price of $2.00 or lower. No Sol Ring's here! So please keep that in mind if you see obvious missing cards.
Thanks for the advice! To touch on some of your points:
* Altar of the Brood does have a combo with Undead Alchemist; the tokens Undead Alchemist creates will trigger more mills until no opponent mills a creature.
I did miss this interaction I knew it combod with something but I didn't see it in your list.
* With Corpse Augur, you just stated the card is bad without justification. It seems like a flexible piece of card draw in the vein of Night's Whisper; depending on how many cards you want to draw or how much life you want to lose, you can select between different opponents.
My apology. The card is bad because it required too many hoops to jump through in order to get the desired effect. It's nothing like Night's Whisper as the card will always draw you cards when and how you want it to as well as being a two drop. You have access to very consistent card draw in UB and filling a slot with and creature who's stats are not efficient and doesn't do anything unless it dies is just not worth tying up a card slot.
* Interesting point about the mill being unnecessary. You mentioned Mindcrank and Traumatize, but what about Altar of Dementia and Dread Summons? I've seen the latter frequently in other Scarab God decks. What about Windfall effects?
Altar of Dementia is good because it still acts as a sacrifice outlet which gives you value and is much more likely to kill a player then Mindcrank. Outside of a lifegain deck you're going to kill a player with damage well before Mindcrank gets close to killing someone even if you play Mindcrank on turn two which means it looses a lot of its value the latter you draw the card.
I'm not a fan personally of Dread Summons but I tend to lean on a more spike over flavor side of things. Windfall effects are very good as they allow you to refill your hand. You often see them when players are able to dump a large majority of their hand very quickly and use them to refill before other players have a chance to catch up. The fact that they incidentally put creatures in other players graveyards is just gravy for you.
* Wonder's ability to provide my entire field with flying seems really powerful, and it shouldn't be too difficult to throw it in the grave with effects like Whispering Madness.
So I have a really effective budget Kefnet deck. The list here is a little out dated but very close to what it is currently. Things I would think about it Kefnet doesn't really need very much added to start killing people off. He's already got evasion. You're really looking for +2 or more power and Vigilance. Worldslayer, Dowsing Dagger, and Empyrial Plate. Dowsing dagger is perhaps one of the most insnae cards for Kefnet as it allows you to play the card turn 2 kefnet on three and equip swing on four, then play your land with the flipped dagger. This leaves you with 4 mana up as well as untap with 7 mana.
I live in the Seattle area and so my pods dent range from highly tooned cEDH list where I just play Baral or Teferi, to focused tooned decks.
I think most of the planeswalkers are very solid Death's Majesty is rather loose but all of the 3 mana planeswalkers are incredibly powerful. Dack steals signets / sol ring / crypts. Most lists do not run creatures that can attack into a 4/4 and they all either protect themselves or generate incredible value very quickly. Lilly of the veil, everyone discard > bolas + Lilly everyone discard, ruins everyone at the table very quickly.
I'll take another look at your list and see if I glean any gems.
CMC is siting at exactly 3 currently.
1x Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Planeswalker (8)
1x Dack Fayden
1x Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
1x Karn Liberated
1x Liliana, Death's Majesty
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
1x Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Enchantment (5)
1x As Foretold
1x Mystic Remora
1x Rhystic Study
1x Search for Azcanta
1x The Eldest Reborn
Instant (19)
1x Brainstorm
1x Capsize
1x Counterspell
1x Countersquall
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Entomb
1x Fire Covenant
1x Forbid
1x Force of Will
1x Intuition
1x Kolaghan's Command
1x Mana Drain
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Negate
1x Pact of Negation
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Terminate
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Ancestral Vision
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Cruel Ultimatum
1x Crux of Fate
1x Damnation
1x Dark Intimations
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Mind Twist
1x Notion Rain
1x Praetor's Grasp
1x Reanimate
1x Syphon Mind
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Vandalblast
Creature (9)
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Gilded Drake
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip
1x Kess, Dissident Mage
1x Notion Thief
1x Plaguecrafter
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Spellseeker
1x The Scarab God
Artifact (10)
1x Coalition Relic
1x Dimir Signet
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Izzet Signet
1x Mana Crypt
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Talisman of Dominance
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Blood Crypt
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Canyon Slough
1x City of Brass
1x Command Tower
1x Dragonskull Summit
1x Exotic Orchard
1x Flooded Strand
7x Island
1x Luxury Suite
1x Mana Confluence
1x Morphic Pool
1x Mountain
1x Path of Ancestry
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Shivan Reef
1x Steam Vents
1x Sulfurous Springs
4x Swamp
1x Temple of Deceit
1x Tolaria West
1x Underground River
1x Watery Grave
On Karn, I've just found that my list is hostile like yours to creatures which makes protecting walkers a a fairly safe plan. I've liked him. If you're looking for an upgrade to something like Outpost Siege he's great but I would recommend using one of the old school titans so you can shuffle him back into your library. I've never found that I've lost something however and really do like that I get the cards in my hand.
@Stumphead - Welcome man. Hope you read over some of the other peoples lists. This is one of the few forum posts I find myself drifting back to regularly over the years. I just love the deck. Always happy to get Weebo's take on cards coming out from the new sets as well.
@Flux277 - glad someone else is having success with the looting package. I think Pyromancer Goggles is just and insanely powerful effect having made us of it I can't see ever playing a mostly red deck and not wanting to use it.
Recent Changes:
+ Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
+ Karn, Scion of Urza
+ Reforge the Soul
+ Rolling Earthquake
+2 Snow-Covered Mountain
+ Glacial Chasm
- Goblin Welder
- Kozilek, the Great Distortion
- Commune with Lava
- Stolen Strategy
- Commander's Sphere
- Primal Amulet
- Command Beacon
I'll look to make some changes again likely soon. Had a great game recently where Chandra ToD was about to ultimate early into a game but was tucked under an O-Ring. Only for me to later stabilize from Theros Gods beating my face in by having Ugin blow up the board leaving me with an Ugin and Chandra who managed to get there with the support of a double sworded up Godo.
I would fit Liliana of the Dark Realms as it is another way for you to on shot people. Also another reason to run heavy on the basics.
This list is rather explored already so you can find a lot of ideas. I like Ugin and Karn Liberated for these lists if you're going a more controlling route as they give you game against permanent types you are otherwise are blank to.
This made my day.
- - - - - - -
Picked up a Karn, Scion of Urza last night. Excited to get some games in with it.
I've really been disapointed by Torch of Defiance but its just such a flavor win. I'll likely be cutting it for baby Karn if I can get my hands on one.
Thoughts and ideas are greatly appreciated.
1x Xantcha, Sleeper Agent
Enchantment (16)
1x Animate Dead
1x Blessing of Leeches
1x Brand of Ill Omen
1x Curse of Disturbance
1x Dauthi Embrace
1x Inner Demon
1x Keldon Twilight
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x Palace Siege
1x Pestilence
1x Phyresis
1x Sleeper's Guile
1x Sulfuric Vortex
1x Unnatural Hunger
1x War's Toll
1x Words of War
Creature (10)
1x Ascendant Evincar
1x Burnished Hart
1x Charmbreaker Devils
1x Lightning Reaver
1x Night Incarnate
1x Shriekmaw
1x Sire Of Insanity
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Tsabo Tavoc
1x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Charcoal Diamond
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Commander's Sphere
1x Dreamstone Hedron
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Fire Diamond
1x Hedron Archive
1x Mind Stone
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Prismatic Lens
1x Star Compass
1x Talisman of Indulgence
1x Wayfarer's Bauble
1x Witchbane Orb
Sorcery (13)
1x By Force
1x Cathartic Reunion
1x Cut
1x Faithless Looting
1x Final Parting
1x Grave Upheaval
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Languish
1x Necromantic Selection
1x Night's Whisper
1x Rakdos's Return
1x Read the Bones
1x Tormenting Voice
1x Comet Storm
1x Curtains' Call
1x Fire Covenant
1x Imp's Mischief
1x Rakdos Charm
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Shred Memory
1x Terminate
1x Unlicensed Disintegration
Land (37)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Command Tower
1x Foreboding Ruins
1x High Market
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
1x Molten Slagheap
11x Mountain
1x Opal Palace
1x Rakdos Carnarium
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Shadowblood Ridge
15x Swamp
1x Tainted Peak
Changes:
-1 Swamp
+1 High Market
I did miss this interaction I knew it combod with something but I didn't see it in your list.
My apology. The card is bad because it required too many hoops to jump through in order to get the desired effect. It's nothing like Night's Whisper as the card will always draw you cards when and how you want it to as well as being a two drop. You have access to very consistent card draw in UB and filling a slot with and creature who's stats are not efficient and doesn't do anything unless it dies is just not worth tying up a card slot.
When you have access to Fact or Fiction, Read the Bones, Night's Whisper, Treasure Cruise, Dig Through Time, Windfall, Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Impulse, etc, etc. You have no reason to run Corpse Augur.
Altar of Dementia is good because it still acts as a sacrifice outlet which gives you value and is much more likely to kill a player then Mindcrank. Outside of a lifegain deck you're going to kill a player with damage well before Mindcrank gets close to killing someone even if you play Mindcrank on turn two which means it looses a lot of its value the latter you draw the card.
I'm not a fan personally of Dread Summons but I tend to lean on a more spike over flavor side of things. Windfall effects are very good as they allow you to refill your hand. You often see them when players are able to dump a large majority of their hand very quickly and use them to refill before other players have a chance to catch up. The fact that they incidentally put creatures in other players graveyards is just gravy for you.
Feel free to keep it. I've seen the card do work.