Thanks for the suggestions! Those are definitely some interesting changes. I was thinking the same about Nightveil Specter. Worse than Thief of Sanity and redundant, too.
I realize that we get to control the opponent's draws, if TPW is gassed up, but should you be worried about pulling cards back into the opponent's graveyard? I haven't played in awhile and I'm not familiar with some of these cards, so I may be missing something with them right in front of my face.
Definitely going to build this out with your suggestions and give it a test.
What do you think about Lavinia, Azorius Renegade? Looks like she would be good in this deck. Think that she might force faster decks into a grindy matchup?
Ever since I picked up a playset of Thoughtpicker Witch in the budget box at my LGS, I've wanted to make a deck around it. I searched here, to see if there already existed some ideas. I found a few from a long time ago. They were mostly GB decks. Nothing that really excited me. So, I sidelined it. Then, I thought about another of my favorite cards, Nightveil Specter . So I started brewing and considered the main ideas in The Art of War. Attack your enemy's resources, steal your enemy's resources, use your enemy's resources, attack when you outnumber your enemy. This is the decklist I came up with so far.
Thoughtpicker Witch seems to have crazy potential. If we can get the sac machine going, we can control our opponent's draws for the rest of the game. Take away threats, mana flood them, mana starve them, take your pick.
Doomed Traveler is a great 1 drop that can punch in for early damage, is a sac target for Thoughtpicker Witch, and leaves behind a flyer who also punches in for some damage and is another sac target.
Nightveil Specter is a thing. Let's hit you for 2, exile a card and play it if we can. In fact, if we have TPW cranking, let's look at the top two and pick the best one that we want Specter to steal for us.
Thief of Sanity I don't play standard and this card is new to me. It seems like it's a better Nightveil Specter. Gets three instead of one, leaves it face down so they don't know what they've lost, and we get to use mana however we want. I love this card. I may even look at replacing NVS with something else. (Suggestions are welcome)
Etrata, the Silencer is another new one to me. I'm trying to stick to exile mechanics and I like that she adds in the counter for a wincon. She has to be dealt with. She's a big body, unblockable, and has a built in auto-win. She's kind of a shenanigans card, so that's why I'm keeping to two.
Grave Titan is disgusting in this deck. I've played a couple different builds of this deck in the past 2 years and I've had this card in it the whole time. If he lands, it's lights out. He's big, generates sac targets and we just dictate the rest of the game from thereon out.
Lingering Souls is an obvious choice to provide sac targets early and late in the game when we need them.
Doomfall, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Thoughtseize all serve the same purpose. Controlling the early game and screwing up our opponent's hand until we can start controlling their draws. Doomfall is nice by giving us the addition of some removal, if we need it.
Path to Exile is my choice for removal. I don't have a secret reason for it, it's just fast, cheap and removes big nasties from the game.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is awesome. I've loved this card since I saw its spoiler. I've wanted it to work SO bad and I think that this is its home. Exile, play stuff, graveyard hate. Yes please. Many an opponent has sighed heavily when I land him.
Some cards I'm considering:
Psychic Surgery (Anti-fetch and the Dimir Mill decks running around?)
I know, it's a long list, but there are a lot of good cards out there.
I took an older build to a tournament where, when I got the sac engine fired up early, I actually snagged the key cards from my opponents and started playing their combos and strategies for them, but on the wrong side of the table!
Warning: it's really annoying when it goes off. Don't play it against table flippers.
As I said, I'm trying to stick to the exile mechanic. If I can't use it, I want it out of the game. I don't want them pulling anything back out of the graveyard.
I would love to hear opinions and any suggestions.
Thanks! I started putting in 2 of Abzan Charm in a while back. I haven't had any problems casting it. While cheaper CMC, I don't care for Path to Exile giving them a basic land and a shuffle. I realize that Sign in Blood, Night's Whisper and even Read the Bones are better draw spells, I like that Charm only takes two slots. Also, when I get Thoughtseize'd or IOK'd, I get Charm ripped out of my hand most of the time. So, they typically miss the cards I REALLY care about.
I'm on the fence with Garruk, Apex Predator. He's a new addition for me. When I goldfish this deck and get Garruk Wildspeaker, +1 ramp into Death Cloud within the next turn or two, I can use Wildspeaker to ramp into Apex. The 3/3 Green Beasts are nice, but deathtouch and Apex's other abilities are sweet. I'm open to suggestions.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor is really because I don't have Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. I like making all my tokens and Myth Realized +1/+0 just before swinging. The 2/2 Vampire token is not bad either. I think Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is just a little bit better, in that, we would immediately get an emblem that makes our creatures bigger for the rest of the game. I'm open to suggestions on this one too.
I didn't realize that my LGS is hosting the Modern State Championship in my area tomorrow. I think I'd like to give this a go. Maybe it will catch everyone off-guard? Any suggestions to make this better are more than welcome.
I know the fetch lands are strange, but I don't have Verdant Catacombs, nor do I have the funds to pick them up right now. I'm toying with the idea of running 1 or 2 of Eternal Witness just to get ammo from the graveyard.
What do you think? I'm going to give it a shot sometime next week.
lands don't seem right (not enough for 5 mana, not enough red) for stormbreath and even jace seems dicey.
Yeah, I'm on the fence about Jace. I had no problems landing Stormbreath at all. Either I had the proper mana, used Evolving Wilds to go get it or I had a Drum to make up for a missing red. I'm considering dropping Jace and bringing in one Soul of New Phyrexia.
I dropped Chief Engineer because, while he was a nice 1/3 body on the board, he didn't really do much in the way of threats. Yes, I can convoke for Skuttles, but I was losing the haste effect from Generator Servant.
I added Jace, the Living Guildpact because I want to load the yard with bad draws that I can use to Dig/Cruise with. Plus, he has some other nice late game effects and creates a target for removal.
There were a couple times where I just needed that last bit of damage to put someone away where I didn't have the artifact to sac, so I've added a couple Stoke the Flames to the main and Lightning Strikes to the sideboard to match the Burn decks a little better. I also added three Circle of Flame for those pesky Burn guys.
I dumped the Tomb of the Spirit Dragon in favor of two more Evolving Wilds. It was great being able to fetch that one basic that wasn't coming to me in the draw. I also added one Plains. I want to splash white for Erase, (Whip hate), and Hushwing Gryff. (More hate for the different flavors of Reanimator running amuck.)
I was pleasantly surprised at how well this deck did. I had it in mothballs in the original primer build. I decided to play it at the last minute. Seeing all the White in the current meta, I felt good main boarding Stormbreath Dragon. It was a beast against Abzhan! I'm considering putting one more in the SB. This deck destroyed Abzhan Midrange and Esper Control. Evolving Wilds is not a proper fetch land, but I was never upset about seeing it. It was so good for me, I'm going to drop the Tomb of the Spirit Dragon and throw in two more. The Tombs didn't slow me down,but they were negligible on life gain. The Reanimator deck with Seige Rhino was a terrible matchup. With no real answer to Whip, I couldn't race him. Red Burn was bad too. Just too fast for me to get gassed up. I wasn't able to put together a proper sideboard either. I think Circle of Flame mixed with Stubborn Denial might be a good strategy. For Reanimator, I'm looking at splashing white for Erase and Hushwing Gryff.
Got some "Honey Dos". I'll post my revised list in a little while.
Man, great feedback guys. I admit that I was missing the land strategy. I shouldn't have, considering I use Treetop Village in my Death Cloud deck. Been doing more play testing and it's a killer strategy. I thought about Sun Droplet myself to counteract any damage from Burn. My meta is HEAVY on Burn.
You're kidding about flooding right? Between blowing up your own lands with smallpox and having lands that serve as attackers/defenders (mutavault), removal (quicksand & ghost quarter), artifact recursion (buried ruin), and direct damage (leechridden swamp) this deck can run a LOT of lands without worrying too much about flooding. I think you're missing that much of the strategy of the deck revolves around using utility lands as recurring uncounterable spells & creatures. Also, a 5 or 6-land opening hand with a single raven's crime isn't so bad (T1 land, crime, T2 land, retrace twice...)
Thanks, this helps me understand how I should be thinking to pilot this deck better.
Ok. I did some more play testing. I see the value of dredging with Life from the Loam. I also like Tombstalker. I've dropped the Tusk idea. I think I just need practice piloting this deck. I added Dragon's Claw to my SB to help with Burn. I'm taking this to my LGS Modern tourney tomorrow night. I'll post my list and results afterwards.
I see Obstinate Baloth in some SBs. What do you think about Thragtusk? I know OB is a bigger body, but Tusk nets you 5 life, draws removal and it leaves behind either a 3/3 beater or at worst pulls more removal from their hand.
I've been testing this at the kitchen table with 24 lands. I'm getting flooded the majority of the time. Could I get away with 22 lands? Is there a strategy with this deck that I'm missing? I'm running 4 fetches to thin it out and that doesn't seem to help much. I appreciate the help. I really like this deck as I am a Golgari guy myself.
What is everyone doing against Burn and UR Delver? Are we just taking a bath in game 1 and SB Leyline of Sanctity or Chalice of the Void? I've been looking at options to push this deck into the MidRange when necessary.
I realize that we get to control the opponent's draws, if TPW is gassed up, but should you be worried about pulling cards back into the opponent's graveyard? I haven't played in awhile and I'm not familiar with some of these cards, so I may be missing something with them right in front of my face.
Definitely going to build this out with your suggestions and give it a test.
What do you think about Lavinia, Azorius Renegade? Looks like she would be good in this deck. Think that she might force faster decks into a grindy matchup?
4x Doomed Traveler
2x Etrata, the Silencer
2x Grave Titan
4x Nightveil Specter
4x Thief of Sanity
4x Thoughtpicker Witch
Sorcery
3x Doomfall
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
3x Thoughtseize
Instant
4x Path to Exile
4x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Lands
2x Celestial Colonnade
2x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Godless Shrine
1x Island
2x Polluted Delta
2x Shambling Vent
3x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Watery Grave
2x Chalice of the Void
2x Descend upon the Sinful
2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
2x Fatal Push
2x Hurkyl's Recall
3x Remand
2x Surgical Extraction
So, why these cards?
Thoughtpicker Witch seems to have crazy potential. If we can get the sac machine going, we can control our opponent's draws for the rest of the game. Take away threats, mana flood them, mana starve them, take your pick.
Doomed Traveler is a great 1 drop that can punch in for early damage, is a sac target for Thoughtpicker Witch, and leaves behind a flyer who also punches in for some damage and is another sac target.
Nightveil Specter is a thing. Let's hit you for 2, exile a card and play it if we can. In fact, if we have TPW cranking, let's look at the top two and pick the best one that we want Specter to steal for us.
Thief of Sanity I don't play standard and this card is new to me. It seems like it's a better Nightveil Specter. Gets three instead of one, leaves it face down so they don't know what they've lost, and we get to use mana however we want. I love this card. I may even look at replacing NVS with something else. (Suggestions are welcome)
Etrata, the Silencer is another new one to me. I'm trying to stick to exile mechanics and I like that she adds in the counter for a wincon. She has to be dealt with. She's a big body, unblockable, and has a built in auto-win. She's kind of a shenanigans card, so that's why I'm keeping to two.
Grave Titan is disgusting in this deck. I've played a couple different builds of this deck in the past 2 years and I've had this card in it the whole time. If he lands, it's lights out. He's big, generates sac targets and we just dictate the rest of the game from thereon out.
Lingering Souls is an obvious choice to provide sac targets early and late in the game when we need them.
Doomfall, Inquisition of Kozilek, and Thoughtseize all serve the same purpose. Controlling the early game and screwing up our opponent's hand until we can start controlling their draws. Doomfall is nice by giving us the addition of some removal, if we need it.
Path to Exile is my choice for removal. I don't have a secret reason for it, it's just fast, cheap and removes big nasties from the game.
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is awesome. I've loved this card since I saw its spoiler. I've wanted it to work SO bad and I think that this is its home. Exile, play stuff, graveyard hate. Yes please. Many an opponent has sighed heavily when I land him.
Some cards I'm considering:
I know, it's a long list, but there are a lot of good cards out there.
I took an older build to a tournament where, when I got the sac engine fired up early, I actually snagged the key cards from my opponents and started playing their combos and strategies for them, but on the wrong side of the table!
Warning: it's really annoying when it goes off. Don't play it against table flippers.
As I said, I'm trying to stick to the exile mechanic. If I can't use it, I want it out of the game. I don't want them pulling anything back out of the graveyard.
I would love to hear opinions and any suggestions.
Yup, stand corrected. I forgot about the "can't be targeted by colored spells" clause. Thanks!
I'm on the fence with Garruk, Apex Predator. He's a new addition for me. When I goldfish this deck and get Garruk Wildspeaker, +1 ramp into Death Cloud within the next turn or two, I can use Wildspeaker to ramp into Apex. The 3/3 Green Beasts are nice, but deathtouch and Apex's other abilities are sweet. I'm open to suggestions.
Sorin, Solemn Visitor is really because I don't have Sorin, Lord of Innistrad. I like making all my tokens and Myth Realized +1/+0 just before swinging. The 2/2 Vampire token is not bad either. I think Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is just a little bit better, in that, we would immediately get an emblem that makes our creatures bigger for the rest of the game. I'm open to suggestions on this one too.
I didn't realize that my LGS is hosting the Modern State Championship in my area tomorrow. I think I'd like to give this a go. Maybe it will catch everyone off-guard? Any suggestions to make this better are more than welcome.
Edit: Oh! And I would also add to your list of what Charm would hit. Wurmcoil Engine, Celestial Colonnade, Kitchen Finks, Fleecemane Lion, Phyrexian Obliterator, Platinum Angel and the Flying Spaghetti Monster to name just a few.
2 Damnation
3 Death Cloud
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Primal Command
2 Thoughtseize
Instant (7):
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Abzan Charm
1 Putrefy
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Bitterblossom
4 Myth Realized
Planeswalker (8):
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Land (23)
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
1 Godless Shrine
1 Golgari Rot Farm
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Temple of Malady
3 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Windswept Heath
1 Woodland Cemetery
I know the fetch lands are strange, but I don't have Verdant Catacombs, nor do I have the funds to pick them up right now. I'm toying with the idea of running 1 or 2 of Eternal Witness just to get ammo from the graveyard.
What do you think? I'm going to give it a shot sometime next week.
Yeah, I'm on the fence about Jace. I had no problems landing Stormbreath at all. Either I had the proper mana, used Evolving Wilds to go get it or I had a Drum to make up for a missing red. I'm considering dropping Jace and bringing in one Soul of New Phyrexia.
4 Ornitopter
4 Triton Shorestalker
3 Generator Servant
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Stormbreath Dragon
3 Scuttling Doom Engine
Planeswalkers
2 Jace, the Living Guildpact
Instant
2 Dig Through Time
4 Shrapnel Blast
2 Stoke the Flames
1 Stubborn Denial
4 Ensoul Artifact
Artifacts
3 Springleaf Drum
3 Ghostfire Blade
Lands
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Evolving Wilds
2 Shivan Reef
5 Mountain
5 Island
1 Plains
2 Lightning Strike
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Erase
2 Hushwing Gryff
3 Circle of Flame
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Disdainful Stroke
2 Negate
I dropped Chief Engineer because, while he was a nice 1/3 body on the board, he didn't really do much in the way of threats. Yes, I can convoke for Skuttles, but I was losing the haste effect from Generator Servant.
I added Jace, the Living Guildpact because I want to load the yard with bad draws that I can use to Dig/Cruise with. Plus, he has some other nice late game effects and creates a target for removal.
There were a couple times where I just needed that last bit of damage to put someone away where I didn't have the artifact to sac, so I've added a couple Stoke the Flames to the main and Lightning Strikes to the sideboard to match the Burn decks a little better. I also added three Circle of Flame for those pesky Burn guys.
I dumped the Tomb of the Spirit Dragon in favor of two more Evolving Wilds. It was great being able to fetch that one basic that wasn't coming to me in the draw. I also added one Plains. I want to splash white for Erase, (Whip hate), and Hushwing Gryff. (More hate for the different flavors of Reanimator running amuck.)
Any suggestions/feedback is more than welcome.
Keep brewing!
4 Triton Shorestalker
3 Generator Servant
2 Chief Engineer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Scuttling Doom Engine
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Ghostfire Blade
4 Shrapnel Blast
2 Dig Through Time
4 Ensoul Artifact
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Tomb of the Spirit Dragon
1 Evolving Wilds
2 Shivan Reef
5 Mountain
5 Island
I was pleasantly surprised at how well this deck did. I had it in mothballs in the original primer build. I decided to play it at the last minute. Seeing all the White in the current meta, I felt good main boarding Stormbreath Dragon. It was a beast against Abzhan! I'm considering putting one more in the SB. This deck destroyed Abzhan Midrange and Esper Control. Evolving Wilds is not a proper fetch land, but I was never upset about seeing it. It was so good for me, I'm going to drop the Tomb of the Spirit Dragon and throw in two more. The Tombs didn't slow me down,but they were negligible on life gain. The Reanimator deck with Seige Rhino was a terrible matchup. With no real answer to Whip, I couldn't race him. Red Burn was bad too. Just too fast for me to get gassed up. I wasn't able to put together a proper sideboard either. I think Circle of Flame mixed with Stubborn Denial might be a good strategy. For Reanimator, I'm looking at splashing white for Erase and Hushwing Gryff.
Got some "Honey Dos". I'll post my revised list in a little while.
Keep brewing!
4x Bloodghast
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Buried Ruin
1x Darkblast
2x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Leechridden Swamp
4x Life from the Loam
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Mutavault
3x Overgrown Tomb
2x Quicksand
3x Raven's Crime
4x Smallpox
8x Swamp
3x The Rack
4x Thoughtseize
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Waste Not
1x Batterskull
2x Golgari Charm
2x Damnation
2x Drown in Sorrow
2x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Sun Droplet
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Tombstalker
I only have 2 Mutavaults and I can't really swing 2 more right now. I have 1 of each: Bloodstained Mire, Wooded Foothills and Polluted Delta. Should I toss those in, even if they're not Verdant Catacombs?
Thanks, this helps me understand how I should be thinking to pilot this deck better.
Bear with me, I usually run Death Cloud.
I've been testing this at the kitchen table with 24 lands. I'm getting flooded the majority of the time. Could I get away with 22 lands? Is there a strategy with this deck that I'm missing? I'm running 4 fetches to thin it out and that doesn't seem to help much. I appreciate the help. I really like this deck as I am a Golgari guy myself.
What is everyone doing against Burn and UR Delver? Are we just taking a bath in game 1 and SB Leyline of Sanctity or Chalice of the Void? I've been looking at options to push this deck into the MidRange when necessary.