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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from Aazadan »
    Quote from spawnofhastur »
    Also I should say that people need to understand the whole picture with cards like Ancient Stirrings. I won a game during the beginning of Abzan Company because I cast a Collected Company that whiffed completely. I was in a grindy game with Twin and after missing on that CoCo, I hit 4 straight creatures, including 2 Kitchen Finks and completely took over. If I had to draw those 6 cards, I lose 100%. That was actually the best CoCo I have ever cast in any form of Magic with Abzan Company, although it was frustrating at that very moment until I drew creature after creature. Smile


    I think this is the real power of Ancient Stirrings in decks that can use it. You're finding the one card out of the top five that will be useful soon, and even if you whiff you're getting rid of 5 bad cards. I've definitely cast Stirrings where my reaction was "Well, I'm super glad I'm not drawing any of those next turn..."


    Granted, you might not get a great selection with that number of hits, but it's still quite good. 23 land+4 stirrings is strictly better than 27 land to hit your land drops.


    This is not always true. Besides, your argument ignores the cost of stirrings: one green mana.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from mlad_jiraf »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from jwf239 »
    Quote from sss123 »



    They cannot give you PTE in Standard, because it will be a nightmare for the R&D designing the creatures. This is why we do not see much hexproof creatures recently in the new sets.
    Counterspell has a similar problem to Standard.


    How would PTE make their job creating creatures any harder? If anything it makes it easier because they can continue to throw nonsense like samut, voice of dissent at us knowing there would actually be a safety valve if it was too strong.

    If you follow their design approach in the recent years, you should notice that they attempt to let creatures do more and more jobs on the battlefield.
    The Standard decks are dominated by creature based decks, or, balanced by various creature based decks.

    Suppose there is a cheap, efficient creature removal such as PTE which is introduced, most of the creatures designed in order to balance the META will be affected. Only the hexproof or good ETB ability creatures left. <- this is not what the current R&D want to see, or want to design.




    Standard is definitely dominated by the planeswalkers and not the creatures. Even crappy homebrews can win games, if you insert a set of money cards like JTMS, Gideon, big Elspeth, last Chandra, some of the good Lilianas and so on.
    If they continue to print cheap and strong walkers 3-4 cmc, modern and legacy will also be affected in the future.


    Well, I agree planeswalkers are also the core parts of the Standard decks. But creatures contributes a larger portion in the deck. You can simply count how many creatures are usually involved in a deck, and then compare the amount of planeswalkers in a deck.

    My point is just to show how difficult we can see PTE reprint in Standard. Standard needs creatures, a large amount of creatures with CMC from 1 to 6. A PTE will let most the the creatures unplayable in Standard.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from jwf239 »
    Quote from sss123 »



    They cannot give you PTE in Standard, because it will be a nightmare for the R&D designing the creatures. This is why we do not see much hexproof creatures recently in the new sets.
    Counterspell has a similar problem to Standard.


    How would PTE make their job creating creatures any harder? If anything it makes it easier because they can continue to throw nonsense like samut, voice of dissent at us knowing there would actually be a safety valve if it was too strong.

    If you follow their design approach in the recent years, you should notice that they attempt to let creatures do more and more jobs on the battlefield.
    The Standard decks are dominated by creature based decks, or, balanced by various creature based decks.

    Suppose there is a cheap, efficient creature removal such as PTE which is introduced, most of the creatures designed in order to balance the META will be affected. Only the hexproof or good ETB ability creatures left. <- this is not what the current R&D want to see, or want to design.



    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from Melkor »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from Melkor »
    Wizards- WHY did we not put Counterspell in this Standard? WHY? Our lives would be SO MUCH EASIER right now.

    seriously, they talk about how it's hard for a card to get to Modern because of Standard, and they have been looking at a Standard that people would fall all over themselves for a card that stops a Vehicle or a planeswalker no questions asked, basically since the day Gideon was spoiled


    To make the long story short: Wizards designers decided they had to play the job of the fun police and take out anything that made new players upset. At least that is the hypothesis that is floating around with some on this board.


    oh of course, that's how they roll. but I remember my time as a new player in Standard, i would much rather get countered every 5th game than alternate between getting hit by a car or a Gideon every single match


    To be frank Wizards sort of needs an affordable non-rotating format that can attract new blood into it along with standard just to act as a buffer so they can handle mistakes they may make in standard. Modern sort of works for that, but because it's been around so long most of the staple cards are way too costly to get players who play standard to step into the format.They either go to other games or gravitate towards commander. It's mostly due to them treating modern like the enemy to anything good and only reprinting cards in luxury products like the masters series due to fear of hurting collectors feelings, even though none of the cards are on any kind of reserve list in modern. It's just idiotic.

    However, if they are taking feedback seriously they should start doing more reprints of older cards in standard sets. They already have plenty of good answers in the modern card pool, it's just picking out the ones that are not set specific. Kolaghan's command is pretty set specific, but Path to Exile and Maelstrom Pulse certainly aren't. Neither are double bounce cards from pre-modern or the original counterspell.



    They cannot give you PTE in Standard, because it will be a nightmare for the R&D designing the creatures. This is why we do not see much hexproof creatures recently in the new sets.
    Counterspell has a similar problem to Standard.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from Lord Seth »
    Stoneforge Mystic is at about 66% right now in the unbanning poll. Interesting the degree to which people have changed their mind on that card versus just a year or two ago.


    I agree with you.
    Remember there are couple of people here against SFM unban because it will make Abzan dominate the META...

    Anyway...
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from genini2 »
    Let's get rid of tron so blue can be good. Then we get rid of abzan so burn is good. Then ban burn so control is even better. Then ban control. Eventually we can play grizzly bear in modern.

    Seriously though. How can anyone suggest getting rid of an existing popular archetype that doesn't top 8 ever on the off chance it makes their deck easier to play.



    I really do not get the logic for those people cry for the ban to nerf Tron.
    Tron is definitely beatable if you can adjust your deck list properly.

    All of my decks either have some tools to play against Tron, or simply ignore it because of the good match up.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Quote from Daeyel »
    Iconic Masters:

    Is there anything left to drive sales of this product?

    A bunch of random old EDH cards that are $30-50 for no reason?



    I guess this set will include something like Doubling Season, Tooth and Nail, or Sheoldred, Whispering One. These cannot be considered to be Modern staples, but more or less expensive and can be used for other formats.


    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from jwf239 »
    Quote from KTROJAN »
    There are no top decks using ssg or opal so why would they do anything to either of them.


    He isn't saying ban them now. He is saying they are the most likely offenders in some future scenario when more cards are added to the card pool. He is absolutely correct in that regard. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon but they still clearly don't fit in with Wizards vision of modern and are on a much shorter leash (along with mishra's bauble and street wraith) than most cards in the format.


    We need more efficient tools to answer those early threats based on the cards you mentioned, The META should not rely on the ban list to do the regulation job. It is just my opinion Smile
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from sss123 »


    The angel is too expensive and doesn't have that big of an effect. Dusk is cute, but it's too narrow to do anything reliably, maybe a sideboard card.


    When I read the Angel of Sanctions at the first time, I feel the same thing that the angel is too expensive.
    But when I think deeply, a 3/4 body with a CMC of 5 has already dodged most of the creature removals in Modern, except for dismember and Terminate.
    It also has a big effect when entering the battlefield: a non-land removal. Embalm is an additional bonus which means you can do this non-land removal two times.

    I do believe this angel has a potential in Modern. The bad news is, Control is in a bad position, and White is also in a bad position.
    This angle also has to compete with Gideon Jura in most of the decks...








    While it is a good card with a lot of value, it doesn't do what a lot of five drops are very good at, which is survive. Not only does it not have a good way of protecting itself, but when it dies everything it's done is undone. It also gets completely shut down by PtE



    I do not like to use "dies to removal" for judging a card. Protection to itself indeed is important, but it is not the only criteria for the card ranking. Otherwise, we should see Sigarda, Host of Herons been used more frequently.
    This angle indeed die to three removals: PTE (I almost forget this one...), dismember, and terminate, but it cannot be killed by Bolt, Decay, and Fatal Push. Not all the decks can run PTE/dismember/terminate. In additional, if you play control, you should figure out a way to protect this angel when it enters the battlefield.

    Also, please remember the ability of Embalm. If this angel is killed, never mind, you can re-cast this angel again.






    I know it isn't enough to judge a card by it dying to removal, but a common trait among almost all played five drops in modern is that they all do one or more of three things. Protect themselves, do something when they enter or leave the battlefield, or straight up wins the game. The reason you need these for a five drop is because you don't want to expend large amounts of resources on a creature that gets patched for one Mana. While the "dies to removal" argument is a lot less necessary with 3 drops and 2 drops, once you get to the heavy hitters, you don't want your creature to be shoved aside like it was nothing.


    "when they enter or leave the battlefield": This angle is a removal for a non-land permanent. Is it not enough?
    This removal is nothing when it is killed. Sure. But
    1. Your opponent has to have one copy of PTE/dismember/terminate
    2. You can re-cast this angle to do the removal job again.

    I am not saying it is good enough for the current META, because, as I said before, Control is in a bad position now.
    I just believe it has a Modern potential. Smile
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from Lord Hazanko »
    Quote from izzetmage »
    I said Eidolon was bad and I'm willing to admit I was wrong on that. But I didn't go "hellbent on you". Go ahead and dig through the spoiler thread for Eidolon, it might refresh your memory.

    In fact, if you think I went "hellbent on you", you're free to report the offending post to the mods and let them take care of it. I'm sure you've had a lot of experience with this, if you know what I mean. Guess What I'm Thinkin'


    Report posts from like 3 years ago.... lol. Ok guy.



    So whataya think about Angel of Sanctions and Dusk?



    The angel is too expensive and doesn't have that big of an effect. Dusk is cute, but it's too narrow to do anything reliably, maybe a sideboard card.


    When I read the Angel of Sanctions at the first time, I feel the same thing that the angel is too expensive.
    But when I think deeply, a 3/4 body with a CMC of 5 has already dodged most of the creature removals in Modern, except for dismember and Terminate.
    It also has a big effect when entering the battlefield: a non-land removal. Embalm is an additional bonus which means you can do this non-land removal two times.

    I do believe this angel has a potential in Modern. The bad news is, Control is in a bad position, and White is also in a bad position.
    This angle also has to compete with Gideon Jura in most of the decks...








    While it is a good card with a lot of value, it doesn't do what a lot of five drops are very good at, which is survive. Not only does it not have a good way of protecting itself, but when it dies everything it's done is undone. It also gets completely shut down by PtE



    I do not like to use "dies to removal" for judging a card. Protection to itself indeed is important, but it is not the only criteria for the card ranking. Otherwise, we should see Sigarda, Host of Herons been used more frequently.
    This angle indeed die to three removals: PTE (I almost forget this one...), dismember, and terminate, but it cannot be killed by Bolt, Decay, and Fatal Push. Not all the decks can run PTE/dismember/terminate. In additional, if you play control, you should figure out a way to protect this angel when it enters the battlefield.

    Also, please remember the ability of Embalm. If this angel is killed, never mind, you can re-cast this angel again.




    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from Lord Hazanko »
    Quote from izzetmage »
    Quote from Lord Hazanko »
    This argument reminds me of the time Izzet went hellbent on me that Eidolon of the Great Revel would NEVER ever be played in modern. Lol.
    I said Eidolon was bad and I'm willing to admit I was wrong on that. But I didn't go "hellbent on you". Go ahead and dig through the spoiler thread for Eidolon, it might refresh your memory.

    In fact, if you think I went "hellbent on you", you're free to report the offending post to the mods and let them take care of it. I'm sure you've had a lot of experience with this, if you know what I mean. Guess What I'm Thinkin'


    Report posts from like 3 years ago.... lol. Ok guy.



    So whataya think about Angel of Sanctions and Dusk?



    The angel is too expensive and doesn't have that big of an effect. Dusk is cute, but it's too narrow to do anything reliably, maybe a sideboard card.


    When I read the Angel of Sanctions at the first time, I feel the same thing that the angel is too expensive.
    But when I think deeply, a 3/4 body with a CMC of 5 has already dodged most of the creature removals in Modern, except for dismember and Terminate.
    It also has a big effect when entering the battlefield: a non-land removal. Embalm is an additional bonus which means you can do this non-land removal two times.

    I do believe this angel has a potential in Modern. The bad news is, Control is in a bad position, and White is also in a bad position.
    This angle also has to compete with Gideon Jura in most of the decks...






    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from Fiddlyr »
    The whole three month window thing seems to be where some of the hangup is.

    I look at new sets through the lens of "what do I need to remember now exists in the format going forward" rather than "will it be in top decks within the next three months" which are a lot different standards.


    Sorry for my poor English.
    May I ask what do you want to say?
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from damagecase »
    So what is a good finisher. In my mind a cheap beatstick with counterspell back-up and an open battlefield should do the job. Celestial Colonnade was almost perfect, except it does get expensive. GoST needs evasion to get through most of the time. Delver is a little slow. Tas and ANgler tax your yard something fierce, making it hard to recover if one is lost. Thing in Ice more or less spawned its own deck but would require to much time and protection to really be viable in control. Torrential Gearhulk is a little pricy at 6. Gideon is a little slow at 5.

    See, in my mind everybody is trying to end games way to early for control. Control never used to win on turn 4 or 5 or 6. Earliest I would consider for control is like turn 8.
    Quote from damagecase »
    So what is a good finisher. In my mind a cheap beatstick with counterspell back-up and an open battlefield should do the job. Celestial Colonnade was almost perfect, except it does get expensive. GoST needs evasion to get through most of the time. Delver is a little slow. Tas and ANgler tax your yard something fierce, making it hard to recover if one is lost. Thing in Ice more or less spawned its own deck but would require to much time and protection to really be viable in control. Torrential Gearhulk is a little pricy at 6. Gideon is a little slow at 5.

    See, in my mind everybody is trying to end games way to early for control. Control never used to win on turn 4 or 5 or 6. Earliest I would consider for control is like turn 8.


    Splinder Twin, for example.
    Twin does not need a 2 cmc hard counter. It just needs remand or mana leak to delay the game to Turn 4 or 5 and drop the combo, win the game.

    Scapshift is another example, but not as efficient as Twin.

    Jace the mind sculptor, probably. But I doubt he can finish the game alone, without a counter back up.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from damagecase »
    While I agree, mana leak is a solid counter through turn four and possible turn five. Without counterspell, playing countermagic is a bit of a guessing game. How many early threats are you gonna see? Which turns? What is the backup plan if I miss my counter? How early can I play a rock solid counter? What do I need to do in concordance with said counter?(Do I need to play additional spells, drop a threat or protect one etc.) How many turns until I'm at critical mass and I just fold? These things need to be addressed at the design phase, from the ground up. Personally I would like to see something along the lines of IOK except as a counter spell. Maybe through in a small life lose(2 points something like that)and have it counter spells with a converted mana cost 3 or less. Keep it UU so it has to be a deck solidly in blue to prevent ubiquity.


    Then we go back to our old topic: control does not have a good game finisher.
    If we can drop a good game finisher on Turn 4 or 5, who cares if mana leak is garbage or not on Turn 5 or 6?
    At that point, mana leak serves the same thing as counterspell.

    We do not need a counter as good as counterspell, we just need a better game finisher for Control to play with.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from Aazadan »
    Quote from sss123 »
    If Censor is CMC of 1, it is Modern playable. Since it is 2 instead of 1, I really doubt it does a better job than mana leak.


    If Censor were a CMC of 1, it would be among the best counter magic ever printed.


    For Modern, we are looking for a counter better than the current options, not on par with them.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    If Censor is CMC of 1, it is Modern playable. Since it is 2 instead of 1, I really doubt it does a better job than mana leak.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from Tanukimo »
    What do people expect to get banned in the next banlist announcement?


    No change.
    I am always excited if WOTC says I am wrong. Unfortunately, he told me I am right from time to time.

    When can I play my Jace or STM in Modern? Let's see Frown
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from damagecase »
    Curious to your thoughts on Cryptic Serpent. It can often be cast for UU, has a beefy body and dodges a lot of relevant removal(AD, FP, and bolt). He does lack relevant evasion so that's a minus. IDK. Seems like it could close out games quite quickly though, given a path or evasion...


    UU to get 6/5 is not bad. The thing is if you can access to the black mana, Tasigur is usually a better candidate because it provides more card advantage.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from Tanukimo »
    Well we already have Otherworldly Outburst as 1 mana for a 3/2 (at instant speed no less) and that card sees no play.


    This 3/2 cannot fly Smile
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from damagecase »
    Infinite mana combos tend to cause price spikes...lol...


    I can feel the combo is good in EDH, but in Modern, hmm...
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Devoted Druid, the prize is lovely...
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    There is no problem for Control against Tron, if you can maindeck land hate or land destruction.
    I just built a Grixis combo based control (madcap moon) two days ago. The match up against Tron, or Eldrazi is amazing.

    Control needs, as people have already mentioned several times, a good reason to play control (a good game finisher).
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Glourious End
    Quote from mpraka »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from mpraka »
    Best card for a scapeshift or ad nauseam mirror match XD


    Not sure about scapeshift, but for the ad nauseam, we already have pact of negation...


    It does work with scapeshift, if your going lethal on me i cast this and my next turn i scapeshift your face gg

    Its good against any combo deck if you can go off before you die


    My point is, in any combo deck, you can use pact of negation doing the same thing as Glourious End.
    This new card does not improve those combo decks, at least in Modern.

    For Scapeshift, why not simply use Negate if you can access the blue mana?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on Glourious End
    Quote from mpraka »
    Best card for a scapeshift or ad nauseam mirror match XD


    Not sure about scapeshift, but for the ad nauseam, we already have pact of negation...
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Thanks for all of your explanations Smile
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more! (3/13 update)
    Quote from genini2 »
    With the recent uptick in eggs against I'm thinking we will see a KCI ban in the near future. The deck isn't unfair and is very vulnerable to hate, but it is painful to watch. The number of people timing out or going to a 20 minute turn after going to turns is high. If the deck doesn't die off soon on its own wizards will ban something (probably KCI) just for logistics.


    What is KCI?
    I have never heard this terminology before.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from Sphynx »
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    Quote from sss123 »

    My question is simple:
    If a trigger ability where the trigger condition is cycle, does it mean that when cycle is put in the stack, or mean that when cycle is resolved?

    This is triggers 101. When you pay the cycle cost, the cycling ability goes on the stack. This triggers Sphinx, and then Sphinx's trigger goes on the stack above the cycling. It will resolve first. After you scry, the cycle resolves. This is exactly how it worked in old Rift and Slide formats and it's how it works today.


    This is hardly 'triggers 101.' That's a belittling sentiment which I think ignores the specific difficulty some people are having with understanding what goes on.
    The confusion doesn't lie with how triggered abilities work, but with the Additional Rules cycling is given.

    "An ability triggers only if its trigger event actually occurs. An event that's prevented or replaced won't trigger anything." (CR 603.2f)

    It is understandable that people would assume from this intuitive rule that cycling would be considered a completed 'event' where a trigger is concerned, when the discard and draw parts are completely fulfilled.

    The new wording, intended to make it cleaner, actually makes it more confusing by reinforcing the assumption above.
    "Whenever you cycle or discard a card" implies "whenever you discard a card, or whenever you discard a card, then draw a card to fulfill the conditions of a cycling event."
    Taken literally you would even infer that you could trigger two events from cycling - one for the discard cost of cycling, and another for the cycling event itself.

    This may be lost on older players, but if you gave this a fresh look; if this were a new mechanic that you had never seen before, it's how you would assume it works. Even if you aren't new, but had only experienced cycling in Alara block.
    The reason cycling even works the way it does with this trigger - to be clear, you do get to scry before you draw - is not because of 'triggers 101' but because of an exception to everything I've said above given to cycling by the Additional Rules.
    "'When you cycle [this card]' means 'When you discard [this card] to pay a cycling cost.'" (CR 702.28c)

    That additional rule conflates the completion of the cycling event with the cost.
    This creates a disparity when you ask someone "What does cycling mean?" Vs "No, what does cycling really mean?"
    The intuitive response would be "'Cycling' means discarding a card, then drawing a card after you activate its Cycling ability."
    The correct response is "'Cycling' means discarding a card to pay the activation cost of a cycling ability."
    It's basically a fancy, strange alternative to discard.

    Compare Herald of Anafenza which says "whenever you activate Herald of Anafenza's outlast ability" and Flamespeaker Adept, which doesn't even trigger until after you finish a scry event.
    If you somehow removed a scry instruction and prevented it from happening, Flamespeaker Adept wouldn't trigger. Herald of Anafenza specifies the trigger is when the outlast ability activates, rather than 'when this outlasts.' That just leaves an activation requirement for the trigger, which doesn't care if the ability is countered. It didn't complete an 'outlast' event, but it only cares about the outlast activation event.
    Flamespeaker Adept, on the other hand, doesn't care about someone attempting to scry, just that they do it or not. "Did you scry?" Yes, or no.
    If you were to counter someone's cycling activation with something like Stifle or Disallow, the game still considers that player to have 'cycled,' for triggering abilities even though they, well, didn't :p

    So all up, triggers do seem to work intuitively. That's not where the confusion lies. The confusion comes from that weird Additional Rule for cycling.
    For a pretty basic mechanic, that Additional Rule makes it pretty clunky.
    It's just something to get used to, though it's certainly something else Wizards could streamline.


    Clear to me.
    Many thanks, Professor Smile
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from Weebo »
    Quote from sss123 »
    My understanding is Curator trigger ability(Scry 1) will trigger when you do the cycle (cycle a card other than Curator for sure), which means when you complete the whole cycle action(discard a cycleable card and draw a card).

    Therefore, yoh cannot put Curator trigger ability above the cycle on the stack.
    Then your understanding is incorrect. This is all well defined by the rules. Cycling is an activated ability. When you activate it, you pay costs and put it on the stack (CR 602.2). This causes Curator to trigger. Triggered abilities go on the stack the next time a player would get priority (CR 603.3). Objects on the stack resolve when each player has passed priority in succession (CR 405.5), which necessarily happens after any triggered abilities are placed on the stack. All of that means that Curator's scry 1 trigger always ends up on the stack above the card draw from cycling, resolving first.



    My question is simple:
    If a trigger ability where the trigger condition is cycle, does it mean that when cycle is put in the stack, or mean that when cycle is resolved?



    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from Weebo »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from thewrush »
    Curator of Mysteries Do you get to scry 1 before you draw from cycle?
    No.
    Cycle means "discard a card" + " draw a card".
    This is incorrect, assuming the question is about cycling something when Curator is on board and not about cycling Curator. Abilities triggering from cycling resolve before the card draw from cycling. You activate a cycling ability (paying costs), Curator triggers, and the scry 1 goes on the stack above the cycle.



    My understanding is Curator trigger ability(Scry 1) will trigger when you do the cycle (cycle a card other than Curator for sure), which means when you complete the whole cycle action(discard a cycleable card and draw a card).

    Therefore, yoh cannot put Curator trigger ability above the cycle on the stack.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from thewrush »
    Curator of Mysteries Do you get to scry 1 before you draw from cycle?


    No.
    Cycle means "discard a card" + " draw a card".
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion


    This guy is Modern playable, I believe...
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Liliana, Death´s Majesty (Gathering Magic)
    Quote from FearDReaper »
    Quote from sss123 »
    This Lily will end up somewhere in a competitive Modern deck. It will happen eventually.


    Can you give any reason for making this prediction?
    There is no PW card with a CMC higher than 5 shown in a competitive (Tier 1) Modern deck from the past, other than Karn Liberated and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon .
    You might see one or two copies of Gideon Jura or Elspeth, Sun's Champion in some Tier 2 decks, but it is also rarely occurred.
    When he says "somewhere in a competitive deck" I think he's talking about tier 3 decks. You just pointed out yourself how it's not unheard of. Rare but it's possible.


    "It will happen eventually" <- This sounds like 100%, not "rarely" or "probably".
    Anyway, I should not take this too seriously Smile


    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on Liliana, Death´s Majesty (Gathering Magic)
    This Lily will end up somewhere in a competitive Modern deck. It will happen eventually.


    Can you give any reason for making this prediction?
    There is no PW card with a CMC higher than 5 shown in a competitive (Tier 1) Modern deck from the past, other than Karn Liberated and Ugin, the Spirit Dragon .
    You might see one or two copies of Gideon Jura or Elspeth, Sun's Champion in some Tier 2 decks, but it is also rarely occurred.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 1

    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from The Fluff »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from The Fluff »
    Quote from rogue_LOVE »

    I'm also thinking Gideon of the Trials may end up pushing Emeria pieces.


    Probably those who already own an Emeria deck would try him out. Gideon can be recurred with Sun Titan... Emeria recurs Sun Titan. I would be pre-ordering the Gideon to try out as a 1 or 2 in the deck. Just hoping he doesn't come with an insane pre-order price tag. I would bite as long as he isn't above 5 dollars.


    Good luck on that one. I doubt the future standard all star is going to drop below 20 anytime soon, given how back breaking having 3 standard legal Gideon is and not a whole lot of ways to deal with him.

    I got a feeling you should be able to pick up Ally of zendikar for cheap relatively soon, though.


    That is true.
    This new Gideon will keep at least 20 as long as he is Standard legal. Actually, his pre-order price is 35-40 now.


    Ah, worth that much already? I guess the new Gideon is out of my reach for awhile. Will have to wait for him to drop to 20 something in price.
    For now, I will just use the extra money to buy more khans fetch lands that I need.


    It will probably drop to 20 after the release. But the Standard usage will keep the price because he can crew Heart of Kiran as what has been done with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar.


    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Modern Amonket discussion
    Quote from D90Dennis14 »
    Can Regal Caracal be playable in a control deck as a stabilization card ala a white P&K ? It is 7/7 split between 3 bodies, two of them with lifelink.
    The 5-cmc is a bit harsh, I wish it was a 2/2 for 4 rather than a 3/3 for 5.


    Not easy.
    It has to compete with Gideon Jura with the same mana cost.

    -----

    In additional, I forget to mention Baneslayer Angel as well.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Liliana, Death´s Majesty (Gathering Magic)
    Quote from Gutterstorm »
    Quote from Northjayhawk »
    Wow..... that is probably modern playable.


    You're kidding right? Can't tell. Internet and tone and what not.


    Well, Modern can still be played causally. Therefore, every card from the new set is Modern playable.

    To be honest, this Lili has nothing to do with affecting the current Modern META share.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Wheel of Fate is getting bought up rapidly.

    Due to As Foretold being spoiled.

    Oh and Restore Balance is spiking as well. Haven't checked Living End and Lotus Bloom yet.


    Thanks a lot for the information.
    I can get a playset of Wheel of Fate on time.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from The Fluff »
    Quote from rogue_LOVE »

    I'm also thinking Gideon of the Trials may end up pushing Emeria pieces.


    Probably those who already own an Emeria deck would try him out. Gideon can be recurred with Sun Titan... Emeria recurs Sun Titan. I would be pre-ordering the Gideon to try out as a 1 or 2 in the deck. Just hoping he doesn't come with an insane pre-order price tag. I would bite as long as he isn't above 5 dollars.


    Good luck on that one. I doubt the future standard all star is going to drop below 20 anytime soon, given how back breaking having 3 standard legal Gideon is and not a whole lot of ways to deal with him.

    I got a feeling you should be able to pick up Ally of zendikar for cheap relatively soon, though.


    That is true.
    This new Gideon will keep at least 20 as long as he is Standard legal. Actually, his pre-order price is 35-40 now.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Mothership Spoilers 4/5 - Gideon of the Trials + Trials/Cartouches
    Quote from Northjayhawk »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from Northjayhawk »

    The emblem is not that big of a deal, because planeswalkers are easier to interact with than creatures.


    How can you claim this statement?
    There are much less amount of the removal spell options to kill a planweswalker than a creature.


    You can't literally attack a creature.

    Gideon's annoying? Fine, I'll attack him with everybody, good bye gideon. Random creature is annoying and stubbornly refuses to engage in combat? Well, you better draw that removal spell or he's sticking around.


    You can attack a planweswalker, but your opponent can also chunk block your attackers.
    I still cannot buy your statement.

    In addition, this Gideon has +1 ability to freeze one of your biggest attacker.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on Mothership Spoilers 4/5 - Gideon of the Trials + Trials/Cartouches
    Quote from Northjayhawk »

    The emblem is not that big of a deal, because planeswalkers are easier to interact with than creatures.


    How can you claim this statement?
    There are much less amount of the removal spell options to kill a planweswalker than a creature.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on Temporary 3/13/2017 banlist update discussion thread ("No Changes")
    Quote from genini2 »
    Quote from pierrebai »
    IMO, one of the problem in the modern format is that the natural prey of the blue control deck is abnormal: the combo deck. I think it's abnormal due to the existence of pact of negation. It's a card only combo can play and that nullifies the normal control advantage. (In legacy, FoW exists for all decks and casting it does not lead to losing the game for non-combo decks.) Thus the normal aggro/mid-range/combo/control circle is broken.

    Get rid of the pack would be one step toward bringing classic control back. The only other choice would be a a FoW-like card to replace the pact, in case losing the pact would be to severe for the continued existence of combo.


    Only ad nauseam and amulet play it though.


    Goryo's Vengeance use it in the SB as well.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Melkor »
    Quote from Joban8 »
    Quote from Melkor »
    Are there any cards in Modern, not reprinted, from the days when print runs were lower (ROE and earlier) that are under a dollar and see play? I know it's very specific, but it just seems like without reprints everything has gone way up (Bauble) and I don't want to have never heard of a card until the price hits orbit and want them. Bonus points if it does something unique


    This is great for finding that kind of information.


    haha, I was talking more to the people using the decks that don't get much publicity, the ones who were aware of Bauble before it got big, it was 'what unknown card do you think will spike?'. there are 20 non-core sets in the grouping i asked about, and dozens of unique decks in Developing Competitive, I was hoping for someone who had knowledge to share. for example, if a year ago someone had asked me this, I would have said 'I'm not great at this, but I haven't seen another card that does what those Baubles i have sitting around does'. and I made enough when I sold mine to pay for my box of MM17 at $170. I am not an idiot, and if you are not interested in a helpful response, this was not aimed at you



    Modern legal, never reprinted, in a set with low print run, and less than $1?
    To be honest, there are many of the cards fit into those categories. Will you collect all of them?

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Temporary 3/13/2017 banlist update discussion thread ("No Changes")
    Quote from c_2ro »
    My major issue with Jace is that he makes it difficult for any deck that wants to go past turn 4 to win without being a "jace" deck or a deck that has even more powerful late game options. I think with a Jace unban, you would see the meta shift to decks that can go under Jace (uninteractive hyper-aggro and spell-based combo), and decks like tron that have powerful enough plays to laugh at him. My guess is that the format would turn into a format with 2 types of decks: uninteractive decks and Jace decks. I'm willing to entertain the possibility that I'm wrong (and I kind of hope I am), but this, I think, would be the major concern with bringing him back into the format.


    You forget BG based midrange deck, which should be able to compete with Jace blue decks.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from The Fluff »
    I've noticed a lot of people in our mtg facebook group are buying playsets of Bloodstained Mire... is there a good modern deck right now that use a playset of that fetch land?


    Death Shadow Aggro.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Quote from Spsiegel1987 »
    Phew, that was a lot of typos in my last post. Stupid phone spell-checks into totally wrong words.

    I'll be sad if there's no unban Monday, but after reading Todd Stevens article it had me thinking that there's a nice chance a no ban/no unban could happen.

    To me, it seems really strange for Wizards to go out of their way to make a big deal about adding extra B&R announcements and then do nothing with them.


    I guess these extra chances of doing the B&R announcement mainly for the Standard META adjustment, not for Modern.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on What cards, if any, do you think should be unbanned/banned in Modern in the next announcement?
    Quote from BadMcFadden »


    Same argument imo for artifact lands and opal - affinity probably breaks even or slight nerf on that trade, but its a 5-for-1 banlist move that similarly takes some edge off of lantern and kills cheerios.


    Considering the price tag of Mox Opal, I can not simply support this 5-for-1 banlist move.
    People who invest into Affinity will lose lots of the money for this move.

    When Jund dominates the META, can we expect that Goyf or Liliana eats a ban?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from motleyslayer »
    Quote from Kovo »
    Any thoughts on the announcement today that CFB will be the only TO for GPs starting in 2018? Considering CFB and SCG have an affinity for Modern, is it possible CFB may have an influence on WOTC to make sure the amount of Modern GPs remain at a certain minimum (usually 4 a year).


    I'm hoping we get more modern GPs. I was talking to my buddy a few weeks ago, we both agreed it would be nice to get a modern GP in Eastern Canada

    Quote from Shmanka »
    I started some of the doomsaying, but it wasn't baseless. I also didn't directly say Modern was dying, I said Magic was dying. I can at least speak for Canada, I know lots of the major stores I've traded with across the country, I can't attest to the secondary Market in Canada, but the primary is suffering severely. Distributors and Stores have been ordering less, and reporting half the attendance of FNM compared to 2014-2015. This is actually exemplified with Modern Masters 2017. Stores cannot order what they want to based on numbers and the systems Wizards and their distributors have.

    No statement from Hasbro is going to tell their shareholders that Magic has less people showing up to local geekshops every Friday night. From what I've been told, Modern is the only format that hasn't had large drops in attendance.

    You can easily tell Magic fell off a cliff if you were around in the Darksteel days. People stopped showing up, then Wizards prompted so much on extra events, product changes, etc. You need to understand that Wizards is on a 2 year lag. In one single double set block, they now dedicated to having Masterpiece/Expeditions in each block. That alone tells you they are in dire need of selling their product. They didn't do it because they want to make us smile.

    Either way, when a store can order a booster box from a distributor for 65 USD from a Standard set, that should send a red flag that no one is buying the product.


    what part of Canada do you live in?
    I live in Southern Ontario, a few hours east of Toronto. Magic is really strong here, and ever growing for the most part (except for limited). My area has less than 100 000 people in between 2 cities, but there is enough of a player base to support 3 stores, each with their own, somewhat "unique" crowd. We fire Thursday Night Magic, usually standard at my main store. With FNMs being standard, competitive modern and more casual modern. I feel the selection at stores could be a bit better, but one of the stores just started doing singles, one of the stores not really putting the effort into singles they could and the third having a fantastic selection. We regularly have 3+ vehicles going to Face to Face Opens in Toronto.

    Hopefully I didn't come across too negative, I just feel Magic is really strong in my part of Canadac


    I live in Montreal. You must have heard Face to Face, right?
    Three weeks ago, one of my friend who is working there told me that the recent Standard events can only get 8~16 players to join, and Modern can only attract 16~24 players.

    I would say this is not a good sign at all.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Karn Liberated is $70 on eBay now.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from purklefluff »
    Just FYI, ban decisions are made relatively "live" as in, more or less at the time the decisions are announced.

    Sets are designed years in advance. Mm17 would have been locked in maybe 2 or more years ago, barring a few minor tweaks.

    So the argument about potential unbans being in the set is, at best, moot. At worst it's misleading.


    Fair enough. You can drop the 3rd paragraph from my previous post.
    But there is no information to tell us if MMA set is designed years in advance or not. Unlike Standard sets, MMA set has no interaction with other sets, and I doubt it will take years in advance for the design.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from unity24 »
    Quote from Saydee1800 »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from Saydee1800 »
    As much as I would love to see JTMS or SFM unbanned why would wizards unbanned anything?

    Sure blue is some what weak but is it worth the risk for wizards To give up a Jace or Preordain?

    What would wizards gain?


    1. Does unban Jace, SFM, BBE, or Preordain sell more Standard products?
    2. Does unban Jace, SFM, BBE, or Preordain sell more Modern Master 2017 packs?
    3. Does unban Jace, SFM, BBE, or Preordain bring any direct cash to WOTC?

    All the answers: NO.
    Therefore, I do not expect these cards will be unbanned in a week, especially WOTC recently tries to de-emphasize Modern format.







    100% right this is a game for us. But for them is money.

    There is no gain inew a unbanned


    By that logic, nothing should ever be unbanned because it doesn't effect their sales. Why does WotC keep track of the modern format at all then? That argument makes 0 sense to me.


    In the past, WOTC uses this ban list (ban/unabn) to make Modern a format fun to most of players, in order to promote Modern. They use Modern to attract people buy/hold standard cards because some cards can be used in Modern.

    Now, they do not want keep promoting Modern as hard as before, where we all know that. Therefore, there is no need to adjust ban list as frequently as before. The current Modern META shows a good diversity (if we forget about Blue based Control) and no rush for them to touch the ban list.

    Besides, if they are going to unban a card in a week, they should put this card in the MMA2017 to promote the sale. Since there is no such card in MMA 2017 and Goyf is still in the set as a top star driving the sale, I assume that there is no unban in a week.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
  • 1

    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from Saydee1800 »
    As much as I would love to see JTMS or SFM unbanned why would wizards unbanned anything?

    Sure blue is some what weak but is it worth the risk for wizards To give up a Jace or Preordain?

    What would wizards gain?


    1. Does unban Jace, SFM, BBE, or Preordain sell more Standard products?
    2. Does unban Jace, SFM, BBE, or Preordain sell more Modern Master 2017 packs?
    3. Does unban Jace, SFM, BBE, or Preordain bring any direct cash to WOTC?

    All the answers: NO.
    Therefore, I do not expect these cards will be unbanned in a week, especially WOTC recently tries to de-emphasize Modern format.





    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from esdawt »
    I bought a playset of Cavern of Souls for $94 last night - there's no way it's going to stay as low as $40, is there?


    May I ask where do you get this price? EBay price is much highernthan that.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from motleyslayer »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Mishra's Bauble is the biggest winner after MMA2017. The current price is above $40 USD, which is crazy as an uncommon.


    I think people had a feeling it would jump a lot if it didn't get the reprint


    The main reason is the reprint of Goyf, Death Shadow, and Lilian will encourage people building Death Shadow Aggro, the most popular modern deck for the moment. Everyone needs a play set Mishra's Bauble. This will drive the price to a weird level.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Mishra's Bauble is the biggest winner after MMA2017. The current price is above $40 USD, which is crazy as an uncommon.

    Besides, Engineered Explosives, Chalice of the Void, Mox Opal, and Aether Vial will stay at the current price tag for a while.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 1

    posted a message on Snapcaster Mage - MYTHIC - Split Second (SCG)
    Quote from ThyLordQ »
    Quote from TheMoonshield »
    If dark confidant and tarmogoyf were upshifted at mythic i don't see how that should be different for snapcaster.


    It feels different because Dark Confidant and Tarmogoyf originated in sets that didn't have the mythic rarity. They feel mythic now because of the narrative that's built up around them.

    Snappy is definitely mythic in narrative quality from its seat at the Table of Broken Two Drops, but it came from a set that already had mythics. That makes it feel like what we were told in the original Innistrad set was wrong.


    If WOTC can downgrade the MR to R, why they cannot do something opposite?
    This rarity shift has nothing to do with the rarity original (Innistrad or whatever) set being right or wrong.


    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Quote from Spsiegel1987 »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from r497 »
    What do you guys think are the best targets for speculation on the banlist? SFM, Preordain?


    I would expect nothing but "no change" in the next ban announcement. Thus, no need to worry about price speculation.


    Bad advice and bad prediction, Forescythe said there'd be a conversation on blue based on it's very poor performance since the Summer, thus some price speculation on blue isn't an awful idea.

    Didn't Forsythe mention AV before its unbban as well? If I remember, it happened some time in January, causing the $6 -> $16 initial jump (followed by the $16 -> $50 jump after the actual unban). While his Jace tweet holds any value or not remains to be seen, it's definitely not a bad spec target. Upon further reflection, I picked up an additional new copy (1 WWK 2 FTV20 total). Worst case scenario they will live in Commander decks or sit in a binder before being traded or sold off at parity. I don't think he's ever going to go below $50.

    Edit:
    Quote from sss123 »
    I have spent 600 USD on Jace, and I do not play EDH or Legacy.
    If Jace is not unbanned, this expense is just a waste of money. I should better buy it after he is indeed unbanned.

    $600?! He's readily available in the ~$50-range for WWK, EMA, and FTV foils. Did you buy extra copies solely to spec on? That may pay off big time, but also not be the safest idea, IMO. I think spec is secondary to simply trying to avoid price spikes for a card I would want to play.


    He is $50 after the ENM release, before that he is $90-100 where I bought a playset based on that stupid price.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    I have spent 600 USD on Jace, and I do not play EDH or Legacy.
    If Jace is not unbanned, this expense is just a waste of money. I should better buy it after he is indeed unbanned.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from Spsiegel1987 »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from r497 »
    What do you guys think are the best targets for speculation on the banlist? SFM, Preordain?


    I would expect nothing but "no change" in the next ban announcement. Thus, no need to worry about price speculation.


    Bad advice and bad prediction, Forescythe said there'd be a conversation on blue based on it's very poor performance since the Summer, thus some price speculation on blue isn't an awful idea.


    I just express my expectation about the next ban announcement, which is probably no change as usual.
    But there is always a price speculation near each ban announcement, just like a gambling.
    My advice is not to do the gambling, because I fail many times in the past.
    (I have bought 8 copies of Jace, SFM, and Preordain in the past three years...)

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from r497 »
    What do you guys think are the best targets for speculation on the banlist? SFM, Preordain?


    I would expect nothing but "no change" in the next ban announcement. Thus, no need to worry about price speculation.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from Sabertooth »
    Cause they are talking about unbanning one of the most powerful cards in the history of the game, and we are still casting serum visions


    Don't you think comparing a 1 mana spell with a 4 mana spell in terms of power level, is something misleading?
    For example, Ponder can be used in Storm deck, can Jace do that?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from Sabertooth »
    So.... they are talking about unbanning jace with cards like ponder and preordain on the banned list? Funny


    Why funny?
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on GP Vancouver, GP Brisbane, and SCG Baltimore Modern discussion!
    Quote from izzetmage »
    2 Dredge T8 for Brisbane

    RIP (in every sense of the phrase)

    Oh well, ban Stinkweed Imp


    GGT ban seems to be the wrong choice?

    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on GP Vancouver, GP Brisbane, and SCG Baltimore Modern discussion!
    How death shadow can be adapted after ban, but not Infect. I am surprised...
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from Pokken »
    More communication from wizards is a double edged sword. People read everything they write multiple ways and try to wring the maximum meaning out of it, and so there is a major danger of over-communication. Misunderstandings in text on the internet being rather easy to cause.

    Something that's taken me a long time to learn in my professional life is that the vast majority of people do not read content longer than a sentence very well.


    Is it the fault from audience?
    I would say the WOTC should improve their communication skill or style, in order to prevent misunderstandings.
    For some reason, they avoid doing clarification or responding the question in a simple / direct way.

    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from ktkenshinx »
    Well, Stoddard did address Modern in the mailbag column, but not in a very decisive or particularly helpful manner. Responding to our own Shmanka's question of "Why are you continuously banning cards in Modern, instead of unbanning them?" Stoddard responded:
    Quote from "Sam Stoddard" »
    Many of the cards on the banned list in Modern are there because they make the format less diverse instead of more diverse. Adding a card like Glimpse of Nature doesn't add one deck to the format; it likely eliminates a lot of other decks from being competitive. As the format gets larger and larger, I think there will be room to re-add some of the cards on the banned list back into the format. For what I hope are obvious reasons, I don't think it would be good for me to go through the entire banned list and stack rank how likely each card is to come off in the next two years. One hint, though: I wouldn't get my hopes up about Skullclamp anytime soon.

    http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/aether-revolt-mailbag-2017-02-17

    From this, I'd conclude:

    1. There are at least 2 cards ("some of the cards") on the banlist R&D is eventually interested in adding back to Modern.
    2. Unbans shouldn't make other decks no longer competitive. Note that Stoddard doesn't say unbans should not make decks LESS competitive. Just that unbans shouldn't remove decks from being some degree of competitive.
    3. Glimpse of Nature will probably never be unbanned.
    4. Skullclamp will probably never be unbanned.

    Kind of disappointing. To some extent, it's better than nothing, but I really wish Wizards staff would be more open with their Modern management.


    WOTC has more knowledge (or confidence) about the ban based on the their data collected in the current META.
    But they have no much knowledge to say or to guess what is the impact to the BETA when they unban a card.

    In order to make less mistakes, they prefer doing more bans than unbans to fix the problem in Modern.

    I believe the entire Modern community can do a better job than WOTC to manage the ban list , unfortunately, WOTC does not take it seriously.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from idSurge »
    Fun fact, I would have gotten into Scapeshift after the Twin ban, if it didnt depend on a single card to be a deck, kind of like Twin. You take away the Scapeshift, if the deck ever got good enough, and you lose the deck.

    Ban mania, or Wizards policy, kept me from playing that.

    I cannot understand the Twin hate, I really cant. The deck was not sweeping the field, it was able to be competed against, it even had multiple hate cards printed, including in Colourless.

    Colt: The MTGO meta, makes Twin relevant, and many of us play within it.

    holydiva: Please explain how/why Twin is 'toxic'. As that word has little meaning in the modern online world.


    I have no bias against Twin.
    From my understanding, the exist of Twin serves as a policy deck against linear (non-interactive) decks. If Twin is unbanned, the good news is there will be less amount of the T1 or T2 linear decks. But the bad news is there will be less amount of the T1 or T2 decks due to the "Twin check".

    I have no idea which META is better, with or without Twin...

    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Here in China there are ppl selling lili's at $60. Is it a good choice to buy them?


    Check them thoroughly for counterfeits would be my best advice.


    If it is Chinese version, maybe.
    But if it is English version, indeed, the price is much lower than I expect. The current eBay price is about $75, TCG price is $90.



    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Tired of Mtgo
    Quote from Oopssorryy »
    Try Cheeri0s if you want games to be over quickly. You either loose by turn four or win before that. Grishoalbrand is pretty good for that style of game play. If you like puzzles, these games present a new one every game and hand, requiring you to attempt to put together a win as fast as possible. It's fun in its own way.


    The game style of cheeri0s is very similar to the burn, which can be bored easily.
    If he likes puzzles, I would say Amulet Titan is the best choice, and not so expensive.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on Tired of Mtgo
    Quote from Eledain1 »
    Hey fellow magicians,

    I just played a modern league with my naya burn build on mtgo and went 2-3.

    Game1: Lost 1-2 against a bad UR-Control player. Was boring.
    Game2: Won 2-0 against UB Thopter Sword. Was really boring.
    Game3: Won 2-0 against storm. Was interesting.
    Game4: Lost 0-2 against affinity. Great game.
    Game5: Lost 1:2 against tron with 9 lifegain-spells postboard. Was still a fun game.

    Imho this was a pretty diverse league. Most times I have five games against control or BGx. I really hate these games. This is my first problem. Lately I feel like all the fun aggro and combo matchups are gone. Really enjoyed these tough and fast paced games.

    My second problem is I'm getting more and more tired of burn. It's a fun deck, but it will get boring. I would really like to play some cool brews like mill or pillow fort prison. These decks aren't competitive at all.

    Which brings me to my third problem. MtG is a rather expensive hobby. Just look at the prices of bridge, goyf, lilly, scapeshift, karn and so on. My girlfriend and me are saving for our childwish (can not describe it right in english :-)) and I don't wanna spend houndreds of dollars for a game anymore.

    My fourth problem is that it takes so long to play a game on mtgo. Some opponents take like a minute for one easy turn, that just sucks if you wanna have a fast game. Sadly I don't have a local mtg scene. Next store is about 30 km away and it's just a small store with two to three players every once in a while.

    Conclusion is, I'm thinking about selling my mtgo collection and retiring from the game, but I don't know If I would regret it. Any advice from you guys? Any solutions to my problems?

    Thank you in advance and sorry for my not perfect english.



    Burn is one of the most boring decks to play with, in my opinion. The game plan is just too linear without many other choices: put all of your burn spells on the face of your opponent...

    You can switch to other decks and give it a trial.

    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from idSurge »


    If they insist on keeping down that path (and I dont think they will) then we are in for a rough go for a few years until they switch directions. Maro however stated that Shock in standard is a sign of things swinging back to answers, and Fatal Push is the TRUTH, when you crack a fetch and kill a 4 drop for B.


    Changing the topic at little bit.
    You remind me something. As long as Fatal Push (or Revolt) is legal in Standard, I doubt the fetchland repints could happen...
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from whocansay »
    What's with the spike on Tireless Tracker?


    Used for the Standard BG decks.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from Colt47 »
    Quote from Jayman21 »
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from ashtonkutcher »
    Why is everyone so mad? Wizards has no plans of axing Modern and they like that the format is doing well. Is this not good news?
    Sure, that part is good news.

    But the bad news is hearing high-profile tournaments described as "marketing". While I'm sure that's technically correct, it's still not what long-time, heavily-invested Modern players want to hear. Players want more opportunities to play high-caliber Magic, not fewer. As we've seen from SCG pulling most of its support, relying on 3rd party tournament organization is an unreliable way to go. WotC should be leading by example, not leading Modern out to pasture.

    Its like playing competitive and supported Legacy.
    No, it's not.

    Playing Modern is distinctly not like playing Legacy, as both its supporters and detractors will agree.

    As for Modern being supported, it just doesn't feel that way. That's why everyone is complaining about the announcement. Releasing one Modern Masters set every two years doesn't seem to drop prices very much, and despite WotC's feelings to the contrary, those prices are inevitably tied to the format's accessibility. Plus, reducing the number of high-profile tournaments gives Modern players fewer opportunities to play.

    Maro's statement shouldn't come as welcome news to the players, because they just had their tournament support cut and they are now being told that this is all part of WotC's grand plan. And using EDH as a point of comparison is just insulting; no one wants to play competitive EDH, so of course there doesn't need to be WotC tournament support for it.

    Ultimately, WotC is a business and they're going to do what's right for the business. I understand that high-profile Modern tournaments aren't necessarily right for the business, but I just wish that they had been forward with that information for the past few years; I would have just invested in Legacy instead, because pretty soon both Modern and Legacy are going to be living on LGS-level tournament support.


    Legacy has one big problem that modern does not and that is the reserve list. As long as wotc keeps giving us reprints the community can still grow even if prices stay high. Modern is not going to bave a shortage of staples.


    The reserve list may have accelerated the problem, but Modern has the same issues otherwise. The message they have been sending out for months now is that the format is strictly a collectors only format. It's not for people interested in playing competitive magic: For that they want people to play standard where they can keep pushing cards. This means that eventually the only way newer players will be able to play modern is by proxy just the same as legacy, and in fact many players already do play proxy modern because the core cards like Noble Hierarch and Zendikar fetches are very expensive, and with the spikey nature of the secondary market it makes it hard to plan financially to buy into sideboard cards when a new deck pops up like Puresteel paladin Cheerios. The market couldn't even adjust to how fast that Chalice of the void spiked due to market manipulation. I think the biggest benefit the format can have is letting go of proxy hate in the modern community and letting others play modern at FNM. It's been a great help to Legacy tournaments locally and it would definitely get more people in on modern nights at the game store.


    They can solve the price issue with a more frequent reprint cycle, or use an unlimited print run for MMA serie.
    But this will attract more people playing Modern and keep hurting their Standard market. Thus, they will NOT do this at the moment.



    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    After reading Maro' s response, I think I know what to do.
    No More Standard (I keep buying complete set x4 for each new set since I play this game), less expense on Modern(look at my signature). As a result, I can save more money for my family.
    You really piss me off, Wizards.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on State of Modern Thread: bans, format health, reprints, new cards, and more!
    Quote from bocephus »
    Quote from Colt47 »
    The great mistake with Modern wizards made was not having a support system in place soon enough to prevent the market bubble on cards. If we wound back the clock to zendikar block, that is where modern masters should have started as they could have had lower msrp boxes without issue. The trouble is they let the bubble grow and now they can't print those expensive format staples anywhere but in a luxury set. It's a victim of its own rapid growth period.

    Also a lot of people don't like it because it's too fast of a format. Too many turn 4 kills.


    You just refuse to understand the market and just keep wanting it to change in your vision. The bubble was coming no matter. Its just the nature of the market and supply and demand.

    The only thing Modern is a victim of was pushing Standard from the throne of most played format. Once Wotc saw the possibility, they scaled back Modern to a point they could keep it in check. Why? Because Standard sells packs, Modern sells one set every 2 years, Modern Masters.

    Modern may not be the high level game of choice, but locally I am seeing more and more playing the format.

    Its also nice to know some things never change. The same group complaining about the same things they were a year ago, 18 months ago, and longer. If the format has not pleased you by now, move on and let those enjoying enjoy it.



    You are absolutely right. I am not happy with Standard, thus I quit last year.
    Now WOTC tries to make me unhappy with Modern, I will certainly quit Modern at some time.
    But it does not mean that I have to keep silence until I quit the game.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on [[Official]] Modern Prices Discussion
    Quote from darksteel88 »
    Quote from cfusionpm »
    Quote from Shmanka »
    Quote from traderjoe »
    Countersquall spike is making me sad. Staring at 8 bux a copy now. Frown


    I'm really questioning the validity of this spells usage in Modern. I keep seeing it as a one or two of in multiple decklists, but the restriction on it is so huge that I don't feel the effect is worth it in anything except Grixis Delver for the reach. This price point is just based on availability more than powerlevel imho.

    People are buying it because they think Grixis Control is a good deck and a couple recent list are running several main deck copies. I mean, when it's good it's great, but it has very narrow application.
    It's a strictly better Negate though (assuming UB is easy enough to pay, which it should be), and Negate is a playable card. Maybe not something I'd love in the mainboard but in the sideboard for sure.


    Comparing with negate, sometimes you need to pay one or two extra life to add a black mana in order to cast it, and two point of damage to your opponent is not always relevant to your win condition (from a control deck perspective).

    For example, against Burn, I prefer using Negate rather than Countersquall.
    Posted in: Modern
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