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The Magic Market Index for June 23, 2017
 
Treasure Cruisin' with Monogreen Stompy
 
Chandra, Gideon, and the Purifying Fire
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from Sephon19 »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from scottjhebert »


    Correct. But scry allows you to put any cards you don't want to see on the bottom of your deck, and Index does not. Basically, my initial point is that if you need something right now (or right next turn anyway), and anything after that point is worthless, then yes, Index is better. However, if that's not the case--and it usually isn't--then Scry is superior, because you would put all the cards you scried onto the bottom of your deck and move through your deck faster.


    You know, putting the useless cards back to the bottom is nothing much different than putting them as the 3rd, 4th, and 5th card in the top (which is what Index allows you to do).


    Er, you must very easy access to shuffling to make this claim. Because these effects are not similar in the least in their impact on deck progression.

    In addition, if you can access the fetch lands, you can easily shuffle those useless cards back to the deck. What is the difference between put those cards at the bottom or put them on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th at the top?


    If you have a fetchland, sure. What format are you suggesting to evaluate this in that has easy access to fetchlands?

    And if you're asking what's the difference without shuffling it back, I'm not sure what to say to you at this point.

    One more thing to notice. I am comparing this rare card with a garbage (almost...) common card, which is sad...


    Oh, I can certainly agree that Index is a garbage card. Also, if this card only scried (IOW, if it was just the first part without Aftermath), it wouldn't be discussed in the least. I was more discussing the relative merits of 'Scry X' vs. 'Sort Y'.


    Let's forget about fetch and shuffling stuff.
    I am just talking about Scry 3 and Sort 5.

    If your goal is looking for a specific key card, we all agree that Sort 5 is better than Scry 3.
    If your goal is to filter out the useless cards from the top, Sort 5 (put the cards on the 3rd, 4th, or 5th at the top) does the jobs slightly worse than Scry 3 (put the cards at the bottom).
    If you treat these two goals equally important, Sort 5 is on par with Scry 3.


    Scry 3 is much better than sort 5.
    In all points of the game there are certain cards you don't want. Being forced to keep two lands I'm your top 5 cards or being stuck with too many spells or expensive cards happen more often than not. I say this from experience since I've played both Sage Owl and Augur Owl in kitchen table and Scry is simply superior. Dead draws kill you and Scry removes them, or at least severely reduces their chances to happen.



    This is maybe a worse case scenario where you have to put all of the three cards at the bottom, and hope you can get a better draw from the 4th card.


    If you really need a key card and you do not hit from the top 5, the difference is:
    Sort 5: You have to wait for 6 turns in order to get a new chance.
    Scry 3: You have to wait for 3 turns in order to get a new chance, where the 3 useless cards are sent to the bottom of the deck.

    Again, this is the worst case scenario for Sort 5.

    The other way around , do you know what is the best case scenario for Sort 5?
    Suppose the top 5 cards are all needed, in this case, Sort 5 does a much better job than Scry 3.


    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from chrstphrbrnnn »
    Quote from guy who doesn"t get scry »

    You know, putting the useless cards back to the bottom is nothing much different than putting them as the 3rd, 4th, and 5th card in the top (which is what Index allows you to do).
    In addition, if you can access the fetch lands, you can easily shuffle those useless cards back to the deck. What is the difference between put those cards at the bottom or put them on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th at the top?

    One more thing to notice. I am comparing this rare card with a garbage (almost...) common card, which is sad...


    LOL this is like sweeping your dust under the rug vs in the garbage can. Index is very, very, very much worse than scry 3. Also, fetches are not in standard and formats with fetches likely have better blue spells than scry 3 or index lol.



    Index is very much worse than scry 3. I am tired of seeing the conclusion without reasoning.
    If you cannot say anything to support your argument, it is fine.

    To be honest, even you can prove it, this does not change the fact that this card is useless in any construct format.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from justavictim82 »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from scottjhebert »


    Correct. But scry allows you to put any cards you don't want to see on the bottom of your deck, and Index does not. Basically, my initial point is that if you need something right now (or right next turn anyway), and anything after that point is worthless, then yes, Index is better. However, if that's not the case--and it usually isn't--then Scry is superior, because you would put all the cards you scried onto the bottom of your deck and move through your deck faster.


    You know, putting the useless cards back to the bottom is nothing much different than putting them as the 3rd, 4th, and 5th card in the top (which is what Index allows you to do).
    In addition, if you can access the fetch lands, you can easily shuffle those useless cards back to the deck. What is the difference between put those cards at the bottom or put them on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th at the top?

    One more thing to notice. I am comparing this rare card with a garbage (almost...) common card, which is sad...



    You are assuming you are in a format that has access to fetches. Limited/T2 do not. Scry 3 for U is fair and perfectly playable. Yes this is no Serum Visions but it may see play in control.


    As a person who plays Standard for more than 5 years since M12, I would predict that Scry 3 for U is not Standard playable. We can see.
    Without "draw a card" effect, this spell is losing the card advantage.


    Except that it gets you a card when you play the Aftermath par.t?


    We need to play 4G for the Aftermath cost in order to draw that card, which is too expensive.
    There is a chance to hit a creature with the help from scry 3, bit this means we need to wait until turn 5.
    In Standard, this combo is less robust than Aetherworks Marvel (looking at the top 3 cards vs 6 cards). As a result, not that impressive to me.


    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from MTerg »
    For sure scry 3 is better than Index. Thats why Preordain was banned, the combination of scry and draw was too powerful.


    Scry 3 does not give you a card draw. Do you misunderstand something Smile
    Preordain will not be banned if it removes the text "then draw a card".
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on Yeva, Nature's Herald. So much hate.
    Quote from dkrocka »
    What about Veilstone Amulet using an instant/creature hybrid.


    If your opponent does not play spells or abilities to kill your creatures, you just spend 3 mana to play a spell irrelevant to the game.
    I suggest you to use Spellskite for a similar purpose, with a lower mana cost. In addition, this is a 0/4 that can block...
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »


    I do not get your point at the beginning.
    Suppose you are looking for a specific card.
    Scry 3: You are searching this card from the top 3. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw. if not, put all of the top 3 at the bottom, and you might get this card from the 4th top card in the next draw.
    Index: You are searching this card from the top 5. You get this card in the next draw. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw.

    Suppose Index cannot give you the card from top 5 in the next draw, Scry 3 still cannot give you the card in the next draw.


    Correct. But scry allows you to put any cards you don't want to see on the bottom of your deck, and Index does not. Basically, my initial point is that if you need something right now (or right next turn anyway), and anything after that point is worthless, then yes, Index is better. However, if that's not the case--and it usually isn't--then Scry is superior, because you would put all the cards you scried onto the bottom of your deck and move through your deck faster.


    You know, putting the useless cards back to the bottom is nothing much different than putting them as the 3rd, 4th, and 5th card in the top (which is what Index allows you to do).


    Er, you must very easy access to shuffling to make this claim. Because these effects are not similar in the least in their impact on deck progression.

    In addition, if you can access the fetch lands, you can easily shuffle those useless cards back to the deck. What is the difference between put those cards at the bottom or put them on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th at the top?


    If you have a fetchland, sure. What format are you suggesting to evaluate this in that has easy access to fetchlands?

    And if you're asking what's the difference without shuffling it back, I'm not sure what to say to you at this point.

    One more thing to notice. I am comparing this rare card with a garbage (almost...) common card, which is sad...


    Oh, I can certainly agree that Index is a garbage card. Also, if this card only scried (IOW, if it was just the first part without Aftermath), it wouldn't be discussed in the least. I was more discussing the relative merits of 'Scry X' vs. 'Sort Y'.


    Let's forget about fetch and shuffling stuff.
    I am just talking about Scry 3 and Sort 5.

    If your goal is looking for a specific key card, we all agree that Sort 5 is better than Scry 3.
    If your goal is to filter out the useless cards from the top, Sort 5 (put the cards on the 3rd, 4th, or 5th at the top) does the jobs slightly worse than Scry 3 (put the cards at the bottom).
    If you treat these two goals equally important, Sort 5 is on par with Scry 3.





    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from justavictim82 »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »


    I do not get your point at the beginning.
    Suppose you are looking for a specific card.
    Scry 3: You are searching this card from the top 3. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw. if not, put all of the top 3 at the bottom, and you might get this card from the 4th top card in the next draw.
    Index: You are searching this card from the top 5. You get this card in the next draw. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw.

    Suppose Index cannot give you the card from top 5 in the next draw, Scry 3 still cannot give you the card in the next draw.


    Correct. But scry allows you to put any cards you don't want to see on the bottom of your deck, and Index does not. Basically, my initial point is that if you need something right now (or right next turn anyway), and anything after that point is worthless, then yes, Index is better. However, if that's not the case--and it usually isn't--then Scry is superior, because you would put all the cards you scried onto the bottom of your deck and move through your deck faster.


    You know, putting the useless cards back to the bottom is nothing much different than putting them as the 3rd, 4th, and 5th card in the top (which is what Index allows you to do).
    In addition, if you can access the fetch lands, you can easily shuffle those useless cards back to the deck. What is the difference between put those cards at the bottom or put them on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th at the top?

    One more thing to notice. I am comparing this rare card with a garbage (almost...) common card, which is sad...



    You are assuming you are in a format that has access to fetches. Limited/T2 do not. Scry 3 for U is fair and perfectly playable. Yes this is no Serum Visions but it may see play in control.


    As a person who plays Standard for more than 5 years since M12, I would predict that Scry 3 for U is not Standard playable. We can see.
    Without "draw a card" effect, this spell is losing the card advantage.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »


    I do not get your point at the beginning.
    Suppose you are looking for a specific card.
    Scry 3: You are searching this card from the top 3. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw. if not, put all of the top 3 at the bottom, and you might get this card from the 4th top card in the next draw.
    Index: You are searching this card from the top 5. You get this card in the next draw. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw.

    Suppose Index cannot give you the card from top 5 in the next draw, Scry 3 still cannot give you the card in the next draw.


    Correct. But scry allows you to put any cards you don't want to see on the bottom of your deck, and Index does not. Basically, my initial point is that if you need something right now (or right next turn anyway), and anything after that point is worthless, then yes, Index is better. However, if that's not the case--and it usually isn't--then Scry is superior, because you would put all the cards you scried onto the bottom of your deck and move through your deck faster.


    You know, putting the useless cards back to the bottom is nothing much different than putting them as the 3rd, 4th, and 5th card in the top (which is what Index allows you to do).
    In addition, if you can access the fetch lands, you can easily shuffle those useless cards back to the deck. What is the difference between put those cards at the bottom or put them on the 3rd, 4th, and 5th at the top?

    One more thing to notice. I am comparing this rare card with a garbage (almost...) common card, which is sad...

    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »



    How do you evaluate [Index vs. Scry 3]?


    Well, the basic flaw in Index is that it cannot get you through your deck any faster. So if you're looking for a specific card and it's not in your top 5, it'll still be 5 draws (generally 5 turns) before you have a chance to get it. Scry 3 would allow you to get to a specific card 3 draws sooner.


    I do not get your point at the beginning.
    Suppose you are looking for a specific card.
    Scry 3: You are searching this card from the top 3. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw. if not, put all of the top 3 at the bottom, and you might get this card from the 4th top card in the next draw.
    Index: You are searching this card from the top 5. If you hit, you get this card in the next draw.

    Suppose Index cannot give you the card from top 5 in the next draw, Scry 3 still cannot give you the card in the next draw.

    I just cannot get the point where Scry 3 is better than Index, for the purpose of looking for a specific key card.


    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »

    Scry 3 for U is pretty poor. You can compare with Index which is rarely used for any constructed format.


    Index does not allow you to put any cards on the bottom of your deck. It's a poor comparison for any Scry card. (I remember that people used this exact comparison when Scry was first released.) I am not saying that this card is good; just saying that pure Scry is quite a bit better than Index.


    3 cards vs 5 cards, is this difference good enough to recover the disadvantage(?) of missing "putting cards on the bottom"?


    Scry 3 is much much better than 'sort the top 5 cards of your library'. In fact, Scry 2 is probably better.


    How do you evaluate this?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from scottjhebert »
    Quote from sss123 »

    Scry 3 for U is pretty poor. You can compare with Index which is rarely used for any constructed format.


    Index does not allow you to put any cards on the bottom of your deck. It's a poor comparison for any Scry card. (I remember that people used this exact comparison when Scry was first released.) I am not saying that this card is good; just saying that pure Scry is quite a bit better than Index.


    3 cards vs 5 cards, is this difference good enough to recover the disadvantage(?) of missing "putting cards on the bottom"?
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on UG Aftermath Sorcery
    Quote from ActionJunkie »
    The casting cost is fine - we don't want another Marvel that's for sure. It's the scry which seems a bit low. At 4 or 5, this card is kinda nutty. But at 3, it's definitely not trash yet probably needs a lot more support.


    Scry 3 for U is pretty poor. You can compare with Index which is rarely used for any constructed format.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on Yeva, Nature's Herald. So much hate.
    4 for 4/4 green legendary I will choose Thrun, the Last Troll instead of this poor Yeva.

    To be short, Yeva is not good enough in Modern, or even Standard, as a card building decks around her.
    Posted in: Modern
  • 0

    posted a message on TCGPlayer: Angel of Condemnation
    If the body is 2/4 or 1/4 instead of 3/3, and the mana cost is 3 instead of 4, this guy is Modern playable. Right now, EDH maybe.
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
  • 0

    posted a message on MTGGoldfish spoilers: Hate cards
    Quote from sss123 »
    Oh God, I just saw it...

    Solemnity + Phyrexian Unlife


    Doesn't this combo exist already:
    Melira, Sylvok Outcast + Phyrexian Unlife
    ?


    It's a lot easier to kill a creature than an enchantment, and it forces you to play GW.



    Agree.
    Sounds like Ad Nauseam gets a new tool to play against the worst match up: Infect...
    Posted in: The Rumor Mill
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