Hey, I like it! Still, shouldn't we probably just go all the way on Demigods? I mean, why run 3 and not 4? Six 5 drops is a lot, I recognize that, but once you can cast one Demigod there's basically no other card in your deck that you'd rather draw and we have some recursion engines to make the card sing. Also, Buried Alive for Demigods when we have one in hand? With a Tortured Existence in play? Good luck beating that!
You're right, four copies of Demigod of Revenge is better then three (20 flying hasted power is a player eliminated a turn potentially and as such very relevant).
I have opted to cut Flesh Carver and Ophiomancer as the three casting slot is over crowded and both cards are not essential to the decks game plan.
This made way for a second Grave Pact also further smoothing the decks curve.
With these changes I think the list is very close to being final:
The three and five mana slots are very crowded as I am sure you have noticed, Abyssal Persecutor would help alleviate this slightly (I can just run Desecration Demon or whatever).
All things considered slightly tweaking numbers the deck could look something like this:
I never considered the majority of the cards you have suggested, thank you for bringing these to my attention.
Flesh Carver is of particular interest and will find a home in the deck I believe.
Also thanks for taking the time to put a list together, very interesting.
Given the reduction in creature body sizes, nil evasion and removal of equipment do you feel that you can put enough power on the board to get the job done in a large game?
Considering the loss of the life gain component, nil flying defense and the number of creatures that cannot block at all do you think the deck will be able to go the distance?
What is the moaning about Abyssal Persecutor? "Aw I can't lose the game life is so unfair, lets kill Mephy so I can lose"? Sounds really weird to me. I just wonder what happens with Desecration Demon "Aw we can tap his creature by sacrificing, now somebody NEEDS TO tap it or we lose : S lets kill Mephy so we cant sacrifice our dudes by accident."
I also have some questions for you:
1. How is the lich dude working? Seems kinda random, but does it work? And you even play 4!
2. Are you sure you want to cut a loxodon hammer? They are really good.
3. Your deck seems to use a lot of mana. Could you benefit from Cabal Coffers? You would need to change the land base in that case.
But jeah deck seems fun. Has a lot of recursion and being able to get like a skeleton back from a graveyard and equipping him with a Loxodon Hammer + Grafted Wargear seems good and fun. Personally for me it would be difficult to choose between running Vampire Nighthawks, Phylactery Liches, and other 3 drops you play. I would test few games and run what feels the best.
Moaning is moaning, not much more to be said. Rather then dig my heels in I am happy to just remove the card so our group can get on with enjoying the game.
As for your questions:
1. With the non existent artifact removal in my meta Phylactery Lich is more often then not an indestructible 5/5 for 3 mana, else an awkward draw with no artifacts. Positives have outweighed the negatives thus far.
2. Lashwrithe feels like it has more end game potential so I thought I would give it a trial at a single slot. Worst case is it under performs and I just swap it back out.
3. You're right the deck is mana hungry and Cabal Coffers could potentially help. Vault of Whispers and thus Phylactery Lich would most likely have to be cut make this happen, food for thought.
Definitely spoiled for choices, thanks for the input.
As such I need to figure out what the deck list looks like without these cards.
At current there is next to no artifact removal with the meta very creature heavy.
It should also be noted that I am not interested in doing anything infinite or otherwise broken and that the deck needs to be kept to a reasonable budget.
All things considered this is where I am at with the new list:
Tasked with building a new budget tribal deck for an upcoming gathering that contains zero rare cards. Gray Merchant of Asphodel immediately came to mind and after some thinking I came up with the following:
I believe the deck list is too tight for Staff of Domination to be included.
The deck doesn't have a lot of win conditions which is why I went with Aetherling and the resilience it brings over some of the other choices available like Inkwell Leviathan.
What are peoples thoughts on the right number of copies of Cyclonic Rift to run?
You're right, four copies of Demigod of Revenge is better then three (20 flying hasted power is a player eliminated a turn potentially and as such very relevant).
I have opted to cut Flesh Carver and Ophiomancer as the three casting slot is over crowded and both cards are not essential to the decks game plan.
This made way for a second Grave Pact also further smoothing the decks curve.
With these changes I think the list is very close to being final:
21 Swamp
3 Unholy Grotto
Creatures (27)
2 Gravecrawler
4 Wight of Precinct Six
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Disciple of Bolas
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
2 Veilborn Ghoul
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
4 Demigod of Revenge
3 Tortured Existence
2 Necromancer's Stockpile
1 Buried Alive
1 Whip of Erebos
2 Grave Pact
Thanks for taking the time to post another list.
Do you think that Gravecrawler should still have two slots given its synergy with Sidisi, Undead Vizier and Necromancer's Stockpile?
I am not sure if Abyssal Gatekeeper is actually needed with the full play set of Fleshbag Marauder, thoughts?
Given the dredge theme what are your thoughts on running three or four copies of Demigod of Revenge as the finisher instead of Sepulchral Primordial?
The three and five mana slots are very crowded as I am sure you have noticed, Abyssal Persecutor would help alleviate this slightly (I can just run Desecration Demon or whatever).
All things considered slightly tweaking numbers the deck could look something like this:
21 Swamp
3 Unholy Grotto
Creatures (28)
2 Gravecrawler
4 Wight of Precinct Six
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Ophiomancer
1 Flesh Carver
2 Disciple of Bolas
2 Abyssal Persecutor
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
2 Veilborn Ghoul
1 Vengeful Pharaoh
3 Demigod of Revenge
3 Tortured Existence
2 Necromancer's Stockpile
1 Buried Alive
1 Whip of Erebos
1 Grave Pact
I never considered the majority of the cards you have suggested, thank you for bringing these to my attention.
Flesh Carver is of particular interest and will find a home in the deck I believe.
Also thanks for taking the time to put a list together, very interesting.
Given the reduction in creature body sizes, nil evasion and removal of equipment do you feel that you can put enough power on the board to get the job done in a large game?
Considering the loss of the life gain component, nil flying defense and the number of creatures that cannot block at all do you think the deck will be able to go the distance?
Moaning is moaning, not much more to be said. Rather then dig my heels in I am happy to just remove the card so our group can get on with enjoying the game.
As for your questions:
1. With the non existent artifact removal in my meta Phylactery Lich is more often then not an indestructible 5/5 for 3 mana, else an awkward draw with no artifacts. Positives have outweighed the negatives thus far.
2. Lashwrithe feels like it has more end game potential so I thought I would give it a trial at a single slot. Worst case is it under performs and I just swap it back out.
3. You're right the deck is mana hungry and Cabal Coffers could potentially help. Vault of Whispers and thus Phylactery Lich would most likely have to be cut make this happen, food for thought.
Definitely spoiled for choices, thanks for the input.
I have been playing with the Veilborn Aggro list posted in Cz's black primer to reasonably good success and enjoyment.
16 Swamp
4 Leechridden Swamp
4 Vault of Whispers
Creatures
4 Hunted Horror
4 Phylactery Lich
2 Dusk Urchins
2 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Disciple of Bolas
2 Abyssal Persecutor
4 Veilborn Ghoul
1 Xathrid Demon
1 Sepulchral Primordial
4 Darksteel Axe
2 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Tortured Existence
2 Journeyer's Kite
Lately our play group has been conspiring against me turning Hunted Horror into a liability.
Abyssal Persecutor is attracting unrelenting moaning due to some of the tables inability to interact with it.
Journeyer's Kite and Dusk Urchins have felt a tad clunky.
As such I need to figure out what the deck list looks like without these cards.
At current there is next to no artifact removal with the meta very creature heavy.
It should also be noted that I am not interested in doing anything infinite or otherwise broken and that the deck needs to be kept to a reasonable budget.
All things considered this is where I am at with the new list:
16 Swamp
4 Leechridden Swamp
4 Vault of Whispers
Creatures
3 Reassembling Skeleton
4 Phylactery Lich
2 Grim Haruspex
2 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Disciple of Bolas
2 Desecration Demon
3 Veilborn Ghoul
1 Xathrid Demon
1 Sepulchral Primordial
3 Darksteel Axe
3 Grafted Wargear
1 Lashwrithe
1 Loxodon Warhammer
Enchantments
3 Tortured Existence
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana of the Dark Realms
Reassembling Skeleton feels like a good fit given the equipment sub theme and the decks engine.
I feel Grafted Wargear and Grim Haruspex both compliment what the deck is trying to do.
Desecration Demon was the only comparable size body to Abyssal Persecutor for the same casting cost that I could find.
Although more vulnerable Liliana of the Dark Realms offers more than Journeyer's Kite I believe.
Any feedback on the alterations or alternative suggestions would be greatly appreciated, constructive criticism is welcome.
21 Swamp
4 Leechridden Swamp
Creatures
4 Wight of Precinct Six
2 Stromgald Crusader
4 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Zombie Trailblazer
3 Undead Warchief
4 Grave Defiler
4 Vengeful Dead
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Veilborn Ghoul
4 Tortured Existence
I keep feeling the need to find room for a couple of copies of Shepherd of Rot despite thinking that the card is bad.
21 Swamp
4 Leechridden Swamp
Creatures
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Wight of Precinct Six
2 Stromgald Crusader
4 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Zombie Trailblazer
3 Undead Warchief
3 Grave Defiler
2 Vengeful Dead
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Corpse Harvester
1 Noxious Ghoul
4 Veilborn Ghoul
3 Tortured Existence
Any thoughts on tweaks for this deck or alternative deck suggestions are most welcome.
Out of all the 2cc defensive options discussed I believe that Spellskite is the best fit.
10 Islands
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Academy Ruins
Creatures
3 Spellskite
3 Callous Oppressor
2 Hunted Phantasm
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Aetherling
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
4 Expedition Map
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Trade Secrets
1 Spell Burst
4 Rhystic Study
2 Forbid
1 Capsize
4 Rite of Replication
2 Control Magic
I considered Lighthouse Chronologist but decided the card was more likely to provoke aggression rather than stifle it.
Phantasmal Image although good just wouldn't suit my meta.
Wurmcoil Engine, Sol Ring and Dark Depths would all be fine inclusions to the deck but unfortunately are not within my budget restrictions.
Platinum Emperion although interesting doesn't suit my play style.
I believe the deck list is too tight for Staff of Domination to be included.
The deck doesn't have a lot of win conditions which is why I went with Aetherling and the resilience it brings over some of the other choices available like Inkwell Leviathan.
What are peoples thoughts on the right number of copies of Cyclonic Rift to run?
10 Islands
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Academy Ruins
3 Callous Oppressor
2 Hunted Phantasm
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Aetherling
2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
4 Expedition Map
2 Trade Secrets
1 Spell Burst
4 Rhystic Study
2 Forbid
1 Capsize
4 Rite of Replication
2 Control Magic
Any feedback would be appreciated.
17 Forest
2 Kessig Wolf Run
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 High Market
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Dawntreader Elk
4 Solemn Simulacrum
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Thragtusk
1 Genesis
4 Primeval Titan
3 Rampaging Baloths
4 Sylvan Primordial
2 Spearbreaker Behemoth
1 Terastodon
4 Lurking Predators
Total of 21 sources of green mana, thoughts about whether there will be enough consistency with hitting early drops?
What opinions do people have regarding what the correct number of Genesis is to run in a deck like this?
Any other thoughts or suggestions?
4 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Reliquary Tower
20 Forest
Creatures
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Viridian Emissary
3 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Genesis
2 Silklash Spider
3 Acidic Slime
4 Primeval Titan
3 Rampaging Baloths
2 Spearbreaker Behemoth
4 Beacon of Creation
4 Skullclamp
Thoughts, suggestions?