Been prodded. Sorry I haven't been around. As I've said many times, RL is not kind to mafia (plus I'm modding a game off site and running.... a different event elsewhere on site is stealing my internet time).
But hey I've been in worse spots before so whatever.
I have some time Tonight so I'll see what I can do.
I have been harping on about the fact that there's only one scum left. However, I think there's another possibility based on what's happened so far Today. Before I get into that, let me compile the claimed Night actions and such here.
First, the player list.
FIGHTING: Smitty and URL, Role Cop
Idle Muse: Amy Wong, Vanilla
Rezombied: Bender, Bulletproof
DCIII: Robot Santa Vanilla
Void: Lrrr, Vanilla
TK-421: Morbo, Neutral Hitman
Cythare: Mom, Mafia doctor
Guardman: Nibbler, Tracker
Shockwave07: Zoidberg, Delayer
iRebel: Professor, Inventor/Doc
Blue Electric: Fry, Backup
Rhand: Kif, Vanilla
Second, the compilation of claimed Night actions:
N1
FIGHTING: Targeted rezombied, learned about a Doctor.
iRebel: Gifts BlueElectric, protects Guardman.
Shockwave: Delays Idle Muse
Cythare: Protects FIGHTING
No Night kill.
N2
FIGHTING: Targeted DCIII, learned about a Roleblocker.
iRebel: Gifts DCIII, protects DCIII
Shockwave: No action.
Cythare: Protects Shockwave.
Guardman and BlueElectric Night killed.
N3
FIGHTING: Targeted DCIII; confirmed him as Vanilla.
iRebel: Gifts Void
Shockwave: Delays Idle Muse
DCIII: Was roleblocked.
No Night kill.
N4
FIGHTING: Targeted rezombied, confirmed him as Bulletproof.
Void: Was roleblocked.
iRebel Night killed.
We have no information about Guardman's Night actions.
So that's that. We know that the dead players' actions are true (minus Cythare of course) but among the living I know the following are true as well: FIGHTING: Smitty and URL, Role Cop
Idle Muse: Amy Wong, Vanilla Rezombied: Bender, Bulletproof DCIII: Robot Santa Vanilla
Void: Lrrr, Vanilla
So Muse and Void are unconfirmed. If you're curious, I thought that rezombied might have been running a gambit with Cythare to create a role dichotomy and guarantee that one of them makes it into endgame if the other gets lynched... They had to realize that there would be town protective roles, but I couldn't ignore this possibility.
Anyway, I have a theory. DCIII is 100% correct that leaving me alive is an enormous liability for scum. If I happened to catch the scum, that's game over, town win. Right?
Here's the thing. My activity this game has been abysmal. This is my worst game pretty much ever (worse than Amistarian III—ok guys let's be real I am actually Megiddo). My RL circumstances translate directly into mafia and my RL has been incredibly busy and chaotic lately, which means that I just have not had the time and my posts have been pretty drive by. This puts me in an incredibly weak position. Ok?
This is what I think happened.
Void had a gift from iRebel, which he wisely decided not to reveal. The unknown is scary, and he could have had something to screw up the scum's plans at Night. So the scum decided to block him. iRebel got killed because, with his protection and the RB already being used, there was no way to guarantee a kill on anybody else. Plus, removing a PR helps POE.
So that leaves me. Why not block me when I could expose the last scum? Why not kill me when I am one of the most experienced players left and a PR?
It's because I have zero credibility. No matter my results, the scum knows that he can push a lynch on me today.
But that doesn't make sense with the one scum theory. When I flip, my results are guaranteed to be truthful and (should I have caught the scum), they are toast.
Therefore, the truth is that there actually are two scum, despite my thoughts to the contrary. This is the only thing that makes complete sense. Leaving me unhindered at Night only makes sense if we are in lylo right now.
We can take this conclusion a step further: DCIII and Idle Muse are the scum team.
I previously checked DCIII and confirmed that he is a vanilla. But, because of how my role works, that conclusion is consistent with DCIII being a goon.
This means that Idle Muse is the scum roleblocker and DCIII is a goon, with doctor Cythare rounding out the scumteam.
With that knowledge we can reconstruct the Night actions in full:
N1
FIGHTING: Targeted rezombied, learned about a Doctor.
iRebel: Gifts BlueElectric, protects Guardman.
Shockwave: Delays Idle Muse
Cythare: Protects FIGHTING
Idle Muse: Attempts to kill (Blue/Guardman), gets delayed.
No Night kill.
N2
FIGHTING: Targeted DCIII, learned about a Roleblocker.
iRebel: Gifts DCIII, protects DCIII
Shockwave: No action.
Cythare: Protects Shockwave.
Muse: Kills (Blue/Guardman).
Guardman and BlueElectric Night killed.
N3
FIGHTING: Targeted DCIII; confirmed him as Vanilla.
iRebel: Gifts Void
Shockwave: Delays Idle Muse
DCIII: Claims to have been roleblocked.
Idle Muse: Attempts to kill (???), gets delayed.
No Night kill.
N4
FIGHTING: Targeted rezombied, confirmed him as Bulletproof.
Void: Was roleblocked.
Muse: Roleblocks Void.
iRebel Night killed.
There are actually a lot of possibilities. N1, we can be 100% sure that Muse attempted the kill. Why did he do it? I'm not sure. It would make more sense for DCIII to do it. However, in this game any player can use multiple abilities a Night (I asked about this when iRebel claimed). So it's possible that they decided to have muse block and kill on the same Night, preserving DCIII's vanilla status for down the line in the presence of a potential tracker or watcher. That would mean that the RB got delayed (according to the OP, roleblocks come after delay).
N2 we see the evidence that the delay was used. Two kills, with zero other claimed ways to kill, indicates that this is what happened. With Shockwave confirmed as the delayer, we know for sure that he did successfully delay Muse. I doubt there are two delay effects in the game (one being scum obviously), so this can only make sense. Missing RB again, but it could have gone anywhere, as before. They may have tried to block+kill the same person two Nights in a row for all we know.
N3 we get the second delay on Muse, which should be the nail in the coffin for him and the confirmation that the game state is as I say. That means that there is once again no RB. DCIII couldn't fake his role cop yet at this point, so when the kill came back blank I'm sure he was glad to be able to claim that rather than have to narrow the field.
N4 is interesting. There was only one kill. But think back: Muse got delayed N3. There should have been two kills. Do you know what that means? It means that shockwave was the intended N3 kill. If iRebel was blocked N3 (and delayed into N4), there's no way that the kill could have been interrupted, so this is the only option. This also meant that the scum could kill freely last Night and use their RB on Void, leaving me alive to be framed as I have already stated.
DCIII pushed hard on me D4 while weakly pushing away from Shock. Muse had to push on Shockwave—he had to deflect from himself and create the possibility that he was town through doubt, otherwise he might get lynched as he was under heavy suspicion. DCIII tried to form a counterwagon on me but didn't count on Muse's arguments taking hold. My admittedly quick hammer sealed that, and somewhat ironically denied the scum an instant win.
And that brings us to D5. DCIII pushes strong on me, and Muse (after flopping about on Void) moves to me, putting me at L-1 and inadvertently tipping their hand. The bumrush on me was their plan. Don't fall for it. DCIII's arguments are purely predatory, trying to exploit my inactivity as well as pushing a crap argument about why I'm still alive which I have refuted several times over in this post. He has no legs to stand on.
Anyway, all of this is leading me to: Vote DCIII
I want to lynch DCIII over Muse Today. Why? Because my name is FIGHTING and I have a big dick. Join me in this fantastic town win that I have just created out of thin air. The scum are caught. We are done.
We will lynch Muse Tomorrow (or he can just concede). I am done posting for Today.
I've been following along, but work has been pretty intense (2 jobs, up to 16-hour days), PLUS I usually don't have access to my computer after 11PM or so... so yeah. I've nicked off tonight to take care of this though.
The shockwave wagon confused me as I was watching it develop because it didn't make sense. The other scum is a roleblocker, but for Shockwave to be scum he has to have a delay kill. But then I thought back to something:
I can learn about scum roles, but I can't ask about the mafia Night kill. There's some amount of leeway with this, but this game doesn't appear to have very complicated roles.
I said that I "can't ask" about the mafia Night kill, but the more accurate statement is that that the mafia Night kill isn't factored into my ability at all. Meaning, if etr treats this delay kill as a modified factional kill (for instance, as a communal ability), I wouldn't have learned about it when I learned about the roleblocker. So it all fits nicely.
I'm down to lynch shock. That should be game over. If he's not it, though, we can pretty much just POE from here. I suspect either I or iRebel will be killed Tonight and the other blocked, but there's only one scum and not a lot of room to hide.
I checked DCIII last Night. He is what he says. At the time he was the only living player other than rezombied that isn't either mechanically confirmed or Void, and if I lose to scumVoid this game I will stop playing mafia.
DCIII definitely made the right move trying to target me, but the roleblocker finally reared its head. Just an FYI, I'm not scum, and if you want to try and lynch me you need more than "oh I got roleblocked after saying I was going to target FIGHTING," which is 100% WIFOM. I'm guessing that the scum are trying to keep their options open in terms of mislynch fodder going forward, which is why they did that.
I'm sorry that I don't have more time to put into this game. I like this direction and feel pretty confident in this wagon.
If I'm alive Tomorrow I'll commit to a full reread, no matter what I have to do. My schedule is crammed this week though.
I don't guess anything and the mod tells me a random role that exists in the game that doesn't belong to the player I targeted.
Having admitted to being a gimmick, and therefore being experienced at mafia and/or reading, why would you think I was the doctor if your role says this? (your italics not mine).
Why would you say idle is a sure thing and then want to lynch cythare? Considering the fact that you believe cythare is a doc (#602) and rb is a more dangerous role.
Especially if iRebel isn't lying (which i think he is about the doc thing), idle should be the lynch today, and more than one night action can be performed by one person each night (which I have never encountered before).
yeah, so my attention to this game has been subpar. this is the first day I've sat down and done any real work on this game, and trying to recreate my thought processes from memory (I don't take notes when I play mafia) has not worked out as well as I would hope.
I had forgotten about your D2 behavior until DCIII reminded me.
I was reconstructing this on the fly this afternoon from the public info and what I remembered. On D2 I knew about the doctor. You getting the way you did is what made me certain we had another protective role at the time, but I forgot about that when I made the list and today I just remembered that I had come to the conclusion that we had two protective roles, but not why.
...this will probably be the last game I play for a while. RL has been kicking my ass recently.
So you think there are two mafia, one being a roleblocker and the other a doctor.
You think we should kill the doctor instead of killing the roleblocker and having dc3 check the doc?
Sorry, I misread DC3's gift as a regular cop and not a rolecop.
Just to clarify, I know for certain that Cythare is a doctor. there's no reason to check him.
Both Cythare and Muse are confirmed scum and I'll go either way. Like, just pick one. I picked Cythare because he's more experienced. It really won't matter.
Can anyone think of explanations of the way the kills have played out that doesn't involve Shockwave's delayer claim of Muse being the reason?
I know that iRebel gave me the role cop gift - so there's no way I think that he's scum and granting both Blue and myself positive abilities - which makes me trust his doc claim.
I believe rezombied's claim because he was pretty insistent that there could be other explanations for the lack of a NK on Night 1 and refused to vote Idle. I pegged him as the doc at that point - but bulletproof also makes sense. I suppose it's possible that he's in line with Idle Muse - but I find that combo very unlikely. Basically, I believe his claim.
So I'm worried about a FIGHTING/Cythare gambit right now and the only thing hanging me up on that is that I can't reconcile the two kills last night.
Cythare and Muse would otherwise be what I'd suspect, but FIGHTING's claim that there's a doc that's not a partial role seems to preclude that - unless there is a three man scum team which explains all of the town power (still would have a doc/inventor, a tracker, a backup, a delayer, and a bulletproof and the neutral could potentially be after some of them as well).
Interested in thoughts of others.
I'm pretty sure we have caught scum in muse. The Delayed kill explanation makes the most sense. There's no way the scum have a toughguy kill, and if a vig hasn't claimed by now there isn't one. The only possible explanation would be that iRebel's N1 gift was a vig shot and that blue... shot..... guardman? But I don't think that makes any sense at all.
Razor says that muse tried to commit the NK and got delayed.
I agree with you on rezombied. He WAS very stubborn about the fact that there could be alternative explanations. I also thought he was the doc that I saw... but we know how that turned out.
Now that you've reminded me of rezombied's behavior, I think our scumteam has to be just Muse and Cythare, who are the roleblocker and the doctor, respectively. iRebel has this other inventor claim that he's used in pro-town manner all game, and rezombied's D2 behavior is not believable from a scum perspective.
Oh, and don't forget when balancing that you have to include TK as your third anti-town element. It's not just "town v. 2 scum," it's "town v. 2 scum and a hitman." With the protective role AND a roleblocker, the scum have two ways to counter TK, so they aren't even in that much danger. When you look at the setup from there it all fits pretty nicely.
I'm down to lynch either Today. Cythare is probably the most dangerous (as he's most experienced), so I'm happy to cut off the head.
I'm not paying attention. I don't want to rolecop you. I already know that there's a doc, and since nobody else is claiming one (save iRebel, but my ability didn't find him since his ability does something else), it's you. So I believe your claim.
I didn't even think about rolecopping since I already know what you are pretty much 100%. DCIII can if he feels so inclined, but I think he and I should probably split up and check iRebel/rezombied.
Except it's not a non-sequitur. For the reasons I previously stated, I believe iRebel is town. I've seen players counterclaim with roles they don't have before when they think the player they're counterclaiming is scum. I was rebutting his "hey guys this is my role let's lynch this guy" because that is my role. I made two statements above, and you're trying to link them together when his alignment is not tied to his counterclaim. I prefaced "I still believe you're town" with "don't get me wrong" for this reason. I'm not smearing iRebel, but I am challenging his claim.
As noted before, the Inventor role doesn't make sense as scum to me, and the way he approached it in-thread doesn't read as scummy either.
..............
Sure, but the way you went ahead to try and do that looked particularly slimy. You can express doubt about somebody CCing you without trying to undermine them. It just feels like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth about this.
@iRebel: I guess I can just investigate you Tonight, though I agree with DCIII that you're very unlikely to lie about that.
@Cythare again: How are you proving that you're the doc to me again? You already targeted me once this game and I didn't get a notification or anything.
@cythare: >question iRebel's claim and try to discredit him
>"but you're still town though
so....... I guess you are scum?
Based on his claim, I believe iRebel is Town. He confirmed his role to DCIII by sending him a gift last Night. The role doesn't make sense to me as a scum role. Despite him looking scummy to me D1, I believe him based on his role and on how he played it at the end of D1/D2. He didn't really have much content D2 that sways me either way. What part of that was unclear?
This is a complete non sequitur.
So you're saying that you're a double power-role, that you can perform both Night actions at the same time, and you chose Guardman as your protect for Night 1, when you clearly indicated other people as stronger Town reads D1?
Don't get me wrong, I still believe you're town, but your counterclaim is hogwash.
This is what you said.
That doesn't look like "The role doesn't make sense as a scum role" to me.
You were clearly smearing iRebel and trying to cast doubt on his claim, but at the same time avoiding the commitment that comes with doing so by calling him town. NOW you're saying something completely different.
Basically I was assigning two of each kind of role to each category, 8 total, with 4 vanillas left over. Coming into Day 2, I knew of the existence of a doc, and I assumed that there would be another protective role based on TK's role. My role is weak so I had speculated a second investigative role, and guardman's flip confirmed that. The hitman and delayer filled out the "offensive" category nicely, and I had iRebel speculatively slotted into the utility role. Blue flipping backup filled that in.
Italicized is "confirmed to me," meaning myself and dead players. We do have some mechanical confirmation for both Shock and iRebel. * denotes an anti-town role.
So we have two roles in each category and 4 vanillas. This conforms well with my speculation.
There's two wrinkles. One, I agree that the lineup is too powerful against a two-man scumteam if said scumteam is among the vanillas, and two, iRebel is apparently an unexpected third protective role.
Now, I checked with the mod on my role: I won't receive partial role info, so the doctor I saw is NOT iRebel. This means that I believe cythare's role claim.
So we now have a protective trichotomy. One of these three is scum almost assuredly. And I don't want to automatically assume that one of the docs is the scum because A) cythare is almost 100% guaranteed to actually be a doctor, and B) Hasty modgaming will lose us the game. There's a possibility we have two docs and that rezombied is our odd man out. I want to explore this before we close out the Day.
iRebel, if you're lying about your doc claim, now is the time to tell us. I don't want to mislynch Today based on a fake counterclaim. My inner setup designer is just going nuts about this role. it doesn't make sense to me.
hm, A bulletproof actually makes a lot of sense though along with a roleblocker (which would be their other PR). I will revisit this.
Anyway. Idle Muse is probably our roleblocker. If he tried to do the N1 kill he wouldn't have been able to use the roleblock, most likely.
I actually think we should just lynch confirmed scum Muse Today like we were going to.
@DCIII: shockwave claimed he delays only the person he targeted, so the protection would apply N1 and be gone by N2. I... agree that iRebel is unlikely scum for the CC, but the fact remains that I'm not willing to lynch based on said CC right now.
@cythare: >question iRebel's claim and try to discredit him
>"but you're still town though
so....... I guess you are scum?
I'm Smitty and URL, town rolecops.
Each Night I target a player and can do one of two things. Either I can guess what that player's role is and will be told if I'm right or wrong; or I don't guess anything and the mod tells me a random role that exists in the game that doesn't belong to the player I targeted. I can learn about scum roles, but I can't ask about the mafia Night kill. There's some amount of leeway with this, but this game doesn't appear to have very complicated roles.
N1 I targeted rezombied, did not guess anything, and learned there is a doctor in the game.
N2 I targeted DCIII, did not guess anything, and learned that there is a roleblocker.
Race: Robotic
Planet: Robot Hell
Flavor is that we're moonlighting as private security and got hired to escort the ship on the delivery.
I also need to mention that my mafia time has gone WAY down as I picked up two jobs in the past week, so you may not see as much of me from now on. :(. Sorry.
So yeah. Let's close out the massclaim and I'll see if I can sniff out any false claims Tonight.
1. WALT WIT
2. 2x beer
3. IRISH CSR. BOMB
4. Whiskey and ginger also
;. Rum and coke
6. Fun and cole
7. Something
????
I will retread tonight. I think we need to look into cythare. ISPs got shot for a reason. That might have been cythare. Now that guardman is sees we cans look at why. Brit I suspect that he was shot N1 so his d2 post are irrelevant.
Whose lefty.
I don't blonde I'm to drink
Let's made claim and then lynch muse and go forward. I can verify any suspcicous claims tonight and hopefully Weill factcheck long scup my.
But hey I've been in worse spots before so whatever.
I have some time Tonight so I'll see what I can do.
I have been harping on about the fact that there's only one scum left. However, I think there's another possibility based on what's happened so far Today. Before I get into that, let me compile the claimed Night actions and such here.
First, the player list.
FIGHTING: Smitty and URL, Role Cop
Idle Muse: Amy Wong, Vanilla
Rezombied: Bender, Bulletproof
DCIII: Robot Santa Vanilla
Void: Lrrr, Vanilla
TK-421: Morbo, Neutral Hitman
Cythare: Mom, Mafia doctor
Guardman: Nibbler, Tracker
Shockwave07: Zoidberg, Delayer
iRebel: Professor, Inventor/Doc
Blue Electric: Fry, Backup
Rhand: Kif, Vanilla
Second, the compilation of claimed Night actions:
N1
FIGHTING: Targeted rezombied, learned about a Doctor.
iRebel: Gifts BlueElectric, protects Guardman.
Shockwave: Delays Idle Muse
Cythare: Protects FIGHTING
No Night kill.
N2
FIGHTING: Targeted DCIII, learned about a Roleblocker.
iRebel: Gifts DCIII, protects DCIII
Shockwave: No action.
Cythare: Protects Shockwave.
Guardman and BlueElectric Night killed.
N3
FIGHTING: Targeted DCIII; confirmed him as Vanilla.
iRebel: Gifts Void
Shockwave: Delays Idle Muse
DCIII: Was roleblocked.
No Night kill.
N4
FIGHTING: Targeted rezombied, confirmed him as Bulletproof.
Void: Was roleblocked.
iRebel Night killed.
We have no information about Guardman's Night actions.
So that's that. We know that the dead players' actions are true (minus Cythare of course) but among the living I know the following are true as well:
FIGHTING: Smitty and URL, Role Cop
Idle Muse: Amy Wong, Vanilla
Rezombied: Bender, Bulletproof
DCIII: Robot Santa Vanilla
Void: Lrrr, Vanilla
So Muse and Void are unconfirmed. If you're curious, I thought that rezombied might have been running a gambit with Cythare to create a role dichotomy and guarantee that one of them makes it into endgame if the other gets lynched... They had to realize that there would be town protective roles, but I couldn't ignore this possibility.
Anyway, I have a theory. DCIII is 100% correct that leaving me alive is an enormous liability for scum. If I happened to catch the scum, that's game over, town win. Right?
Here's the thing. My activity this game has been abysmal. This is my worst game pretty much ever (worse than Amistarian III—ok guys let's be real I am actually Megiddo). My RL circumstances translate directly into mafia and my RL has been incredibly busy and chaotic lately, which means that I just have not had the time and my posts have been pretty drive by. This puts me in an incredibly weak position. Ok?
This is what I think happened.
Void had a gift from iRebel, which he wisely decided not to reveal. The unknown is scary, and he could have had something to screw up the scum's plans at Night. So the scum decided to block him. iRebel got killed because, with his protection and the RB already being used, there was no way to guarantee a kill on anybody else. Plus, removing a PR helps POE.
So that leaves me. Why not block me when I could expose the last scum? Why not kill me when I am one of the most experienced players left and a PR?
It's because I have zero credibility. No matter my results, the scum knows that he can push a lynch on me today.
But that doesn't make sense with the one scum theory. When I flip, my results are guaranteed to be truthful and (should I have caught the scum), they are toast.
Therefore, the truth is that there actually are two scum, despite my thoughts to the contrary. This is the only thing that makes complete sense. Leaving me unhindered at Night only makes sense if we are in lylo right now.
We can take this conclusion a step further: DCIII and Idle Muse are the scum team.
I previously checked DCIII and confirmed that he is a vanilla. But, because of how my role works, that conclusion is consistent with DCIII being a goon.
This means that Idle Muse is the scum roleblocker and DCIII is a goon, with doctor Cythare rounding out the scumteam.
With that knowledge we can reconstruct the Night actions in full:
N1
FIGHTING: Targeted rezombied, learned about a Doctor.
iRebel: Gifts BlueElectric, protects Guardman.
Shockwave: Delays Idle Muse
Cythare: Protects FIGHTING
Idle Muse: Attempts to kill (Blue/Guardman), gets delayed.
No Night kill.
N2
FIGHTING: Targeted DCIII, learned about a Roleblocker.
iRebel: Gifts DCIII, protects DCIII
Shockwave: No action.
Cythare: Protects Shockwave.
Muse: Kills (Blue/Guardman).
Guardman and BlueElectric Night killed.
N3
FIGHTING: Targeted DCIII; confirmed him as Vanilla.
iRebel: Gifts Void
Shockwave: Delays Idle Muse
DCIII: Claims to have been roleblocked.
Idle Muse: Attempts to kill (???), gets delayed.
No Night kill.
N4
FIGHTING: Targeted rezombied, confirmed him as Bulletproof.
Void: Was roleblocked.
Muse: Roleblocks Void.
iRebel Night killed.
There are actually a lot of possibilities. N1, we can be 100% sure that Muse attempted the kill. Why did he do it? I'm not sure. It would make more sense for DCIII to do it. However, in this game any player can use multiple abilities a Night (I asked about this when iRebel claimed). So it's possible that they decided to have muse block and kill on the same Night, preserving DCIII's vanilla status for down the line in the presence of a potential tracker or watcher. That would mean that the RB got delayed (according to the OP, roleblocks come after delay).
N2 we see the evidence that the delay was used. Two kills, with zero other claimed ways to kill, indicates that this is what happened. With Shockwave confirmed as the delayer, we know for sure that he did successfully delay Muse. I doubt there are two delay effects in the game (one being scum obviously), so this can only make sense. Missing RB again, but it could have gone anywhere, as before. They may have tried to block+kill the same person two Nights in a row for all we know.
N3 we get the second delay on Muse, which should be the nail in the coffin for him and the confirmation that the game state is as I say. That means that there is once again no RB. DCIII couldn't fake his role cop yet at this point, so when the kill came back blank I'm sure he was glad to be able to claim that rather than have to narrow the field.
N4 is interesting. There was only one kill. But think back: Muse got delayed N3. There should have been two kills. Do you know what that means? It means that shockwave was the intended N3 kill. If iRebel was blocked N3 (and delayed into N4), there's no way that the kill could have been interrupted, so this is the only option. This also meant that the scum could kill freely last Night and use their RB on Void, leaving me alive to be framed as I have already stated.
DCIII pushed hard on me D4 while weakly pushing away from Shock. Muse had to push on Shockwave—he had to deflect from himself and create the possibility that he was town through doubt, otherwise he might get lynched as he was under heavy suspicion. DCIII tried to form a counterwagon on me but didn't count on Muse's arguments taking hold. My admittedly quick hammer sealed that, and somewhat ironically denied the scum an instant win.
And that brings us to D5. DCIII pushes strong on me, and Muse (after flopping about on Void) moves to me, putting me at L-1 and inadvertently tipping their hand. The bumrush on me was their plan. Don't fall for it. DCIII's arguments are purely predatory, trying to exploit my inactivity as well as pushing a crap argument about why I'm still alive which I have refuted several times over in this post. He has no legs to stand on.
Anyway, all of this is leading me to:
Vote DCIII
I want to lynch DCIII over Muse Today. Why? Because my name is FIGHTING and I have a big dick. Join me in this fantastic town win that I have just created out of thin air. The scum are caught. We are done.
We will lynch Muse Tomorrow (or he can just concede). I am done posting for Today.
I've been following along, but work has been pretty intense (2 jobs, up to 16-hour days), PLUS I usually don't have access to my computer after 11PM or so... so yeah. I've nicked off tonight to take care of this though.
The shockwave wagon confused me as I was watching it develop because it didn't make sense. The other scum is a roleblocker, but for Shockwave to be scum he has to have a delay kill. But then I thought back to something:
I said that I "can't ask" about the mafia Night kill, but the more accurate statement is that that the mafia Night kill isn't factored into my ability at all. Meaning, if etr treats this delay kill as a modified factional kill (for instance, as a communal ability), I wouldn't have learned about it when I learned about the roleblocker. So it all fits nicely.
I'm down to lynch shock. That should be game over. If he's not it, though, we can pretty much just POE from here. I suspect either I or iRebel will be killed Tonight and the other blocked, but there's only one scum and not a lot of room to hide.
I checked DCIII last Night. He is what he says. At the time he was the only living player other than rezombied that isn't either mechanically confirmed or Void, and if I lose to scumVoid this game I will stop playing mafia.
DCIII definitely made the right move trying to target me, but the roleblocker finally reared its head. Just an FYI, I'm not scum, and if you want to try and lynch me you need more than "oh I got roleblocked after saying I was going to target FIGHTING," which is 100% WIFOM. I'm guessing that the scum are trying to keep their options open in terms of mislynch fodder going forward, which is why they did that.
I'm sorry that I don't have more time to put into this game. I like this direction and feel pretty confident in this wagon.
If I'm alive Tomorrow I'll commit to a full reread, no matter what I have to do. My schedule is crammed this week though.
vote shockwave
*crosses fingers*
yeah, so my attention to this game has been subpar. this is the first day I've sat down and done any real work on this game, and trying to recreate my thought processes from memory (I don't take notes when I play mafia) has not worked out as well as I would hope.
I had forgotten about your D2 behavior until DCIII reminded me.
Let me direct you back to this post:
I was reconstructing this on the fly this afternoon from the public info and what I remembered. On D2 I knew about the doctor. You getting the way you did is what made me certain we had another protective role at the time, but I forgot about that when I made the list and today I just remembered that I had come to the conclusion that we had two protective roles, but not why.
...this will probably be the last game I play for a while. RL has been kicking my ass recently.
Just to clarify, I know for certain that Cythare is a doctor. there's no reason to check him.
Both Cythare and Muse are confirmed scum and I'll go either way. Like, just pick one. I picked Cythare because he's more experienced. It really won't matter.
and cythare is 99% a mafia doctor. these are my conclusions.
I'm pretty sure we're just on autopilot now actually. Scumteam can feel free to concede.
Razor says that muse tried to commit the NK and got delayed.
I agree with you on rezombied. He WAS very stubborn about the fact that there could be alternative explanations. I also thought he was the doc that I saw... but we know how that turned out.
Now that you've reminded me of rezombied's behavior, I think our scumteam has to be just Muse and Cythare, who are the roleblocker and the doctor, respectively. iRebel has this other inventor claim that he's used in pro-town manner all game, and rezombied's D2 behavior is not believable from a scum perspective.
Oh, and don't forget when balancing that you have to include TK as your third anti-town element. It's not just "town v. 2 scum," it's "town v. 2 scum and a hitman." With the protective role AND a roleblocker, the scum have two ways to counter TK, so they aren't even in that much danger. When you look at the setup from there it all fits pretty nicely.
I'm down to lynch either Today. Cythare is probably the most dangerous (as he's most experienced), so I'm happy to cut off the head.
NO BRAKES
unvote vote cythare
I'm not paying attention. I don't want to rolecop you. I already know that there's a doc, and since nobody else is claiming one (save iRebel, but my ability didn't find him since his ability does something else), it's you. So I believe your claim.
I didn't even think about rolecopping since I already know what you are pretty much 100%. DCIII can if he feels so inclined, but I think he and I should probably split up and check iRebel/rezombied.
If everybody knows I might as well just switch accounts.
Sure, but the way you went ahead to try and do that looked particularly slimy. You can express doubt about somebody CCing you without trying to undermine them. It just feels like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth about this.
@iRebel: I guess I can just investigate you Tonight, though I agree with DCIII that you're very unlikely to lie about that.
@Cythare again: How are you proving that you're the doc to me again? You already targeted me once this game and I didn't get a notification or anything.
This is what you said.
That doesn't look like "The role doesn't make sense as a scum role" to me.
You were clearly smearing iRebel and trying to cast doubt on his claim, but at the same time avoiding the commitment that comes with doing so by calling him town. NOW you're saying something completely different.
Please explain this.
So as I drunkenly mentioned, I had "solved" the setup already. Here's what I knew coming into Today (including the flips)
Investigative
Tracker (Guardman)
Rolecop (FIGHTING)
Protective
Doctor (Unknown)
[Another protective role.] (Unknown)
Offensive
*Hitman (TK)
Delayer (Shockwave)
Utility
Backup (Blue)
[Inventor] (iRebel)
Vanilla (Rhand)
Vanilla (Idle Muse)
[Vanilla]
[vanilla]
4 unknown (Cythare, rezombied, DCIII, Void)
Basically I was assigning two of each kind of role to each category, 8 total, with 4 vanillas left over. Coming into Day 2, I knew of the existence of a doc, and I assumed that there would be another protective role based on TK's role. My role is weak so I had speculated a second investigative role, and guardman's flip confirmed that. The hitman and delayer filled out the "offensive" category nicely, and I had iRebel speculatively slotted into the utility role. Blue flipping backup filled that in.
With all of the claims in, I can update...
Investigative
Tracker (Guardman)
Rolecop (FIGHTING)
Protective
Doctor (Cythare)
Bulletproof (rezombied)
Offensive
*Hitman (TK)
Delayer (Shockwave)
Utility
Backup (Blue)
Inventor/Doctor (iRebel)
Vanilla (Rhand)
Vanilla (Idle Muse)
Vanilla (Void)
vanilla (DCIII)
Italicized is "confirmed to me," meaning myself and dead players. We do have some mechanical confirmation for both Shock and iRebel. * denotes an anti-town role.
So we have two roles in each category and 4 vanillas. This conforms well with my speculation.
There's two wrinkles. One, I agree that the lineup is too powerful against a two-man scumteam if said scumteam is among the vanillas, and two, iRebel is apparently an unexpected third protective role.
Now, I checked with the mod on my role: I won't receive partial role info, so the doctor I saw is NOT iRebel. This means that I believe cythare's role claim.
So we now have a protective trichotomy. One of these three is scum almost assuredly. And I don't want to automatically assume that one of the docs is the scum because A) cythare is almost 100% guaranteed to actually be a doctor, and B) Hasty modgaming will lose us the game. There's a possibility we have two docs and that rezombied is our odd man out. I want to explore this before we close out the Day.
iRebel, if you're lying about your doc claim, now is the time to tell us. I don't want to mislynch Today based on a fake counterclaim. My inner setup designer is just going nuts about this role. it doesn't make sense to me.
hm, A bulletproof actually makes a lot of sense though along with a roleblocker (which would be their other PR). I will revisit this.
Anyway. Idle Muse is probably our roleblocker. If he tried to do the N1 kill he wouldn't have been able to use the roleblock, most likely.
I actually think we should just lynch confirmed scum Muse Today like we were going to.
@DCIII: shockwave claimed he delays only the person he targeted, so the protection would apply N1 and be gone by N2. I... agree that iRebel is unlikely scum for the CC, but the fact remains that I'm not willing to lynch based on said CC right now.
@cythare: >question iRebel's claim and try to discredit him
>"but you're still town though
so....... I guess you are scum?
let me make my claim actually intelligible.
I'm Smitty and URL, town rolecops.
Each Night I target a player and can do one of two things. Either I can guess what that player's role is and will be told if I'm right or wrong; or I don't guess anything and the mod tells me a random role that exists in the game that doesn't belong to the player I targeted. I can learn about scum roles, but I can't ask about the mafia Night kill. There's some amount of leeway with this, but this game doesn't appear to have very complicated roles.
N1 I targeted rezombied, did not guess anything, and learned there is a doctor in the game.
N2 I targeted DCIII, did not guess anything, and learned that there is a roleblocker.
Race: Robotic
Planet: Robot Hell
Flavor is that we're moonlighting as private security and got hired to escort the ship on the delivery.
I also need to mention that my mafia time has gone WAY down as I picked up two jobs in the past week, so you may not see as much of me from now on. :(. Sorry.
So yeah. Let's close out the massclaim and I'll see if I can sniff out any false claims Tonight.
You can tell me
1. WALT WIT
2. 2x beer
3. IRISH CSR. BOMB
4. Whiskey and ginger also
;. Rum and coke
6. Fun and cole
7. Something
????
I will retread tonight. I think we need to look into cythare. ISPs got shot for a reason. That might have been cythare. Now that guardman is sees we cans look at why. Brit I suspect that he was shot N1 so his d2 post are irrelevant.
Whose lefty.
I don't blonde I'm to drink
Let's made claim and then lynch muse and go forward. I can verify any suspcicous claims tonight and hopefully Weill factcheck long scup my.