Haven't done very much testing with Nyx Weaver, but in theory it should be a card to consider. I'm using BBD's list, and there are times where the mills to the graveyard include Obzedat's Aid or Whip, slowing the deck down slightly until I find another Aid. I do agree that it most likely will make the scry lands worse, but it does help get the graveyard going, more so excited for a card that will add used Obzedat's Aid back into the hand. Again need to test the card, but I'd probably try 2-3 in the deck.
I'm starting to come around to the idea of Polukranos, but I really don't think I could put Colossus in there.
Sylvan Primordial is just so strong, and being able to flash him in (and use him as a target for Progenitor Mimic) is just bonkers. He also has reach, like Colossus but he fetches land and blows up planesalkers, not to mention the satisfying manner in which he liberates creatures previously Chained to the Rocks. 7 Mana, yeah but I am fine with that, usually able to hold things down til he can jump in the fray.
Polukranos would really help fill the 4-drop gap and be a threat to thin out opposing removal with, so I may toss him in my build and see how he fares.
One of the upsides to Colossus is the three green it provides for devotion. Heavier Nykthos decks like that. If you feel you can easily get to drop Primordial, the upside that you can choose to kill a non-creature permanent is pretty good.
And yeah the mana dorks are there just for chump blockers/devotion fodder. The deck can't really function without 12 of them though. You absolutely need at least 2 in your opening (Sylvan and mystic being ideal imo) in order to be on track to cast garruk ASAP and start generating massive CA. They're way more useful when you SB in primeval bounty. I wanted to play with it MB but it's really hard to free up any slots.
Perhaps try shaving off 1 Cyclonic Rift for a Primeval Bounty. Taking out a creature for it makes Garruk slightly worse.
This is a pretty cool looking deck. My only worry would be drawing too many mana dorks later on in a game. I have found 8 to be just a bit too few, but 10 or more to be too many, so my list has 9 right now and it's been pretty balanced.
And a thought on Polukranos, World Eater , which I've been seeing in a lot of Simic builds lately ... It just doesn't have enough of a board impact when it comes down, and the monstrosity ability (which may sometimes take another turn to activate) sometimes has nothing to really do aside from the pump - especially after wiping the board with a Rift.
Same with Arbor Colossus, it ends up being a vanilla fatty when board advantage matters most. That's for me...BUT I can see how these guys can synergize with other cards in your list that I don't have, so I'd need to give this a good playtest.
Personally, Sylvan Primordial is my go-to bomb and I think it'll fit at least in a couple of slots where other big guys traditionally sit (Polukranos and Colossus)
I had the same feelings when I first tested out the deck, the importance of the dorks later game just becomes either chump blockers or they help pump out mana for Nylea's activated ability. I've found Polukranos one of the best to flash out when they tap out in attempt to kill Prophet. Arbor Colossus on his own is nice mana efficient creature for its stats and great on curve for a Prime Speaker to drop next turn.
I've yet to test out Sylvan Primordial mb, I have one in sb, I find though for I'd rather use Cyclonic Rift as a bomb for it solves board stalls, can use it earlier for the non-overload cost, and makes devotion decks have to play around overextending into a Rift. Though one time I did board in Primordial, I did Garruk him in and then Prime Speaker, that was pretty fun.
To chime in on the Prophet argument, I fully agree that playing counterspells with it isn't the best way to defend it. To be able to get her out a turn or two earlier because of ramp is the best way in the sense to 'defend' her in this format, since most decks don't start developing their board until about turn 3-4.
Playtesting against black focused decks with a U/G Devo deck such as the one Beastling posted above, they've shared their problems with either committing to developing their board for devotion thus allowing myself another turn with Prophet, or attempt to use a kill spell on Prophet allowing me to then flash in a creature which hopefully makes them regret having to use turn and a kill spell on the Prophet ala Polukranos, Arbor Colossus or another Prophet.
I personally play Reid Duke's Bant Prophet, which only splashes white for two impact cards in Detention Sphere and Sphinx's Revelation. The inclusion of Plasm Capture helps out with either higher value Sphinx's Rev or just getting enough to drop an Aetherling or Primeval Bounty the next turn. A lot of people underestimate what Prophet can do with the amount of draw you get with Sphinx's Revs, and after a few games people started to value Prophet as a bigger threat than Sphinx's Rev by Thoughtseizing it away early game or putting it in the solo pile when I -2 Jace, all with Sphinx's Rev being another choice in both scenarios.
Exactly because of this is why I advocate running shock over Magma jet
I've been playing against a few of the devotion decks, and I believe the one that could give us the most problems is the black one, although I think we are still well positioned to beat these decks with removal + hand disruption.
Played against a variant of mono-black Devo. Whip of Erebos is quite a hassle, makes our spot removal a lot weaker, and it buys them time to start finding Grey Merchants.
Nivix is right about anger of the gods, that's really the main reason to play Rakdos. I personally don't like Sire of Insanity either, but i can see the merits of running it.
Did anyone see this list that came in 11th at the SCG open in Milwaukee?
I think this is a great list, not many people here have been talking about Trading Post, i was skeptical at first but playing with it, it was very good at stabilizing my life total. It also shuts down our opponent's Desecration Demons.
Its a really fun deck. Been playing it since it was posted on SCG to try it out, less two Mutavaults since I need to find two more. The all-star in the deck is the Rakdos Keyrune. While I first thought of it as bad against any other Red deck, they have to pay respect that I can animate it at anytime and they generally keep a burn spell ready for it instead of shooting it to my face. Tapping out on turn three for it isnt a liability against aggro because shock mana is open, and its generally a good time for you to Thoughtseize as well against midrange decks. It also sets up bigger RR's.
After a bit of testing against RDW, U/W, a B/W midrange, and my friend's weird R/W Midrange, I found that Golgari Charm was quite a flexible card. Like others mentioned earlier, I found uses for all three modes with it, most being removing Detention Spheres / Chain to the Rocks that hit Desecration Demon. It stopped Surpreme Verdict from profiting, and though not as efficient, allowed my Desecration Demon to swing in at Elspeth when they felt safe that they could sac a soldier token to keep him in check.
Originally I had Lifebanes main-board, but decided to try out Lotleth Troll instead. I treat them the same on the curve (3 CMC for Lifebane 2cmc+1 Regen for Lotleth). I was pleased with how Lotleth Troll did for me against aggro, providing another blocker alongside Sylvan Caryatid. Half the time it baited a burn spell that could have been directed at me. One of the more subtle things I noticed was that it gave some of my bad creature draws such as late game Caryatids a use.
I also had tried out Vraska, though she's a good catch-all, I, like many others found the life loss of Thoughtseize, Shocklands and Read the Bones far too much that even though she could eliminate a threat when she resolves, it didn't solve the problem of us still killing ourselves off. I decided to try out Whip of Erebos, and found it covered up a lot of what the deck needed to do. Desecration Demon is an aggressively costed threat, it with life link puts opponents in a tough position.
The only really iffy part that I have with my deck is the kill spell line up. I have a feeling i'm playing too many Doom Blades, and i'm on the fence between either Putrify or Hero's Downfall in the MB/SB. I'm somewhat leaning towards HD in mainboard, since apart from our deck, not many decks are running regenerating creatures, and from what I know the only relevant Artifacts that i want to hit happen to also be enchantments which then Golgari Charm also deals with.
Probably typed too much for my first post, but I guess keep up the good work Rock fans.
One of the upsides to Colossus is the three green it provides for devotion. Heavier Nykthos decks like that. If you feel you can easily get to drop Primordial, the upside that you can choose to kill a non-creature permanent is pretty good.
Perhaps try shaving off 1 Cyclonic Rift for a Primeval Bounty. Taking out a creature for it makes Garruk slightly worse.
I had the same feelings when I first tested out the deck, the importance of the dorks later game just becomes either chump blockers or they help pump out mana for Nylea's activated ability. I've found Polukranos one of the best to flash out when they tap out in attempt to kill Prophet. Arbor Colossus on his own is nice mana efficient creature for its stats and great on curve for a Prime Speaker to drop next turn.
I've yet to test out Sylvan Primordial mb, I have one in sb, I find though for I'd rather use Cyclonic Rift as a bomb for it solves board stalls, can use it earlier for the non-overload cost, and makes devotion decks have to play around overextending into a Rift. Though one time I did board in Primordial, I did Garruk him in and then Prime Speaker, that was pretty fun.
Playtesting against black focused decks with a U/G Devo deck such as the one Beastling posted above, they've shared their problems with either committing to developing their board for devotion thus allowing myself another turn with Prophet, or attempt to use a kill spell on Prophet allowing me to then flash in a creature which hopefully makes them regret having to use turn and a kill spell on the Prophet ala Polukranos, Arbor Colossus or another Prophet.
4x Sylvan Caryatid
2x Voyaging Satyr
4x Polukranos, World Eater
3x Prophet of Kruphix
2x Aetherling
1x Prime Speaker Zegana
2x Cyclonic Rift
2x Detention Sphere
4x Sphinx's Revelation
4x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Plasm Capture
1x Primeval Bounty
4x Breeding Pool
6x Forest
4x Hallowed Fountain
1x Island
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
4x Temple Garden
4x Temple of Mystery
I personally play Reid Duke's Bant Prophet, which only splashes white for two impact cards in Detention Sphere and Sphinx's Revelation. The inclusion of Plasm Capture helps out with either higher value Sphinx's Rev or just getting enough to drop an Aetherling or Primeval Bounty the next turn. A lot of people underestimate what Prophet can do with the amount of draw you get with Sphinx's Revs, and after a few games people started to value Prophet as a bigger threat than Sphinx's Rev by Thoughtseizing it away early game or putting it in the solo pile when I -2 Jace, all with Sphinx's Rev being another choice in both scenarios.
Congrats on the 3-1. How do you feel about the Chandra? I'm always on the fence about her in the deck.
Played against a variant of mono-black Devo. Whip of Erebos is quite a hassle, makes our spot removal a lot weaker, and it buys them time to start finding Grey Merchants.
Its a really fun deck. Been playing it since it was posted on SCG to try it out, less two Mutavaults since I need to find two more. The all-star in the deck is the Rakdos Keyrune. While I first thought of it as bad against any other Red deck, they have to pay respect that I can animate it at anytime and they generally keep a burn spell ready for it instead of shooting it to my face. Tapping out on turn three for it isnt a liability against aggro because shock mana is open, and its generally a good time for you to Thoughtseize as well against midrange decks. It also sets up bigger RR's.
This is my basic core, susceptible to changes, and feedback is welcomed
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Desecration Demon
3x Reaper of the Wilds
Instants/Sorceries
4x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Doom Blade
2x Golgari Charm
2x Hero's Downfall
3x Read the Bones
1x Underworld Connections
2x Whip of Erebos
Lands
4x Golgari Guildgate
2x Mutavault
4x Overgrown Tomb
10x Swamp
4x Forest
After a bit of testing against RDW, U/W, a B/W midrange, and my friend's weird R/W Midrange, I found that Golgari Charm was quite a flexible card. Like others mentioned earlier, I found uses for all three modes with it, most being removing Detention Spheres / Chain to the Rocks that hit Desecration Demon. It stopped Surpreme Verdict from profiting, and though not as efficient, allowed my Desecration Demon to swing in at Elspeth when they felt safe that they could sac a soldier token to keep him in check.
Originally I had Lifebanes main-board, but decided to try out Lotleth Troll instead. I treat them the same on the curve (3 CMC for Lifebane 2cmc+1 Regen for Lotleth). I was pleased with how Lotleth Troll did for me against aggro, providing another blocker alongside Sylvan Caryatid. Half the time it baited a burn spell that could have been directed at me. One of the more subtle things I noticed was that it gave some of my bad creature draws such as late game Caryatids a use.
I also had tried out Vraska, though she's a good catch-all, I, like many others found the life loss of Thoughtseize, Shocklands and Read the Bones far too much that even though she could eliminate a threat when she resolves, it didn't solve the problem of us still killing ourselves off. I decided to try out Whip of Erebos, and found it covered up a lot of what the deck needed to do. Desecration Demon is an aggressively costed threat, it with life link puts opponents in a tough position.
The only really iffy part that I have with my deck is the kill spell line up. I have a feeling i'm playing too many Doom Blades, and i'm on the fence between either Putrify or Hero's Downfall in the MB/SB. I'm somewhat leaning towards HD in mainboard, since apart from our deck, not many decks are running regenerating creatures, and from what I know the only relevant Artifacts that i want to hit happen to also be enchantments which then Golgari Charm also deals with.
Probably typed too much for my first post, but I guess keep up the good work Rock fans.