It's been pretty obvious that planes are just a new outfit that Planeswalkers wear that day rather than being actual worlds. And plane overlords are stepping stones. Two Eldrazi titans are pushovers but Ob Nixilis and Bolas (though the latter could be justified) give the GW its losses, because Planeswalkers. I've heard surprising complaints from people about how Magic Story is too "Planeswalker Centric" now and not interesting. That's what you get when your cast is nothing but Mary Sues. How about actually work for something and develop?
Best solution is to de-power PWs in writing.
I'll reserve Ixalan judgment until we discover just how Ajani makes it there. Aether trails or whatever could be a thing.
I'd just like to say thatIi love how some "fan" of EDH actually hate things like politics. I mean... politics is everything is EDH right?
Wrong. And how you're defining politics is a factor, too.
You can't have politics in 2 player games. You will have them starting with 3 player game, simple as that. you can hide your head under the sand because you don't like it, but that won't change the basics of the format and human interactions. Making deals will always be a part of EDH. I hated making deals too, but i understood that i actually hated dumb players making dumb deals. Hating deals on a vacuum is dumb. There will always be deals with multiple players.
And no one is obligated to either make or accept them. Attacking those that do is entirely valid as well. And even if it were a poor decision, if you're having fun making that choice, EDH has served its purpose. But by all means, lets apply Yugioh logic.
Patron Wizard and his ilk are really powerful, but this is speculation, not what we want.
Honestly, with counters on a stick being that powerful, and this being a mostly casual product, I would be shocked to see Patron Wizard. I could see a heavily nerfed version maybe.
However, there would be no excuse for no Riptide Laboratory.
Anagram of Florida Feel free to help me design cards for this plane with your own when you read my description!
Theme of the plane: This is a Retro-Futuristic Sci-Fi meets Magic world in the same sense that Kaladesh was Steampunk meets Magic. Sub-tropical plane that looks like Central Florida. This is a technologically advanced plane on par with Kaladesh or Mirrodin, but its technology is used for spacefaring and has a Sci-Fi flare with large orbiting rings, rockets, etc. Think 1950's and 60's concept art of the future. There are also deep ocean exploration spheres/submersibles. Think Sci-Fi + 1000 Leagues Under the Sea. The plane values artifice and is primarily Blue aligned. Wildlife on Larodif proper is small.
Exploration is a major theme of Larodif. Artifice is life, but materials and knowledge exist in its unique skies. Long since depleted for its majestic cityscapes along the coast, Larodif looks to its unique solar system for resources. Larodif has a unique moon with powerful gravity assisting with liftoff making space-bourne crafts possible. Vehicles guide Humans and Vedalken astronauts alike to the largest 5 moons of Larodif's solar system beyond its own, all orbiting gas giant planets that can be seen in its night sky as large stars. Each moon is dominated by primarily one color of mana. The verdant jungles of one, where large wildlife exists. The Red moon, Acoaca is where the radiation-impervious metal for spaceflight is mined. The mysterious Blue-aligned moon named Mare is said to harbor fearsome krakens and highly intelligent octopi. Strange radio frequencies have been detected from this moon, possibly communications, but exploration is impossible due to a thick icy shell which only one crew, who perished, have managed to penetrate.
Astronomers are the most powerful wizards on Larodif. For art reference, check out the card Vedalken Engineer
Cards:
Lunar Shuttle 2
Legendary Artifact - Vehicle
Crew 3
Vigilance, Haste
If Lunar Shuttle is crewed by 3 Blue Wizard creatures, it gains flying until end of turn.
4/4
Vedalken Astronomer UUU
Creature - Vedalken Wizard
0/3
When Vedalken Astronomer enters the battlefield, scry 3, then reveal the top card of your library. You may play that card this turn.
Launch Pad 3UU
Legendary Enchantment
When Launch Pad or an Artificer creature enters the battlefield under your control, reveal the top card of your library. If it is a Vehicle, add it to your hand. 1U: Scry 1
Kraken of Frozen Mare 4UU
Creature - Kraken
6/4
When Kraken ETB, untap all Islands you control. 5UU: Return Kraken to your hand Long thought to be a perilous sea since the loss of Flight 07:13, space sailors approached with due caution
Flight Cadet 01 W
Creature - Human
2/1
Vigilance "See that glowing ball in the sky? I'm gonna grow up to walk there just like daddy!"
Sorcerer of the Frozen Sea 2U
Creature - Cephalid
When Sea Sorcerer ETB, scry 1 and reveal the top card of your library, if it is a Kraken, add U to your mana pool.
When you try to influence the decisions of others (especially into disadvantaging someone else despite being a valid target) you get killed. I retaliate in commander. Someone, doing something, will inevitably inconvenience me and I'll retaliate. I like having reasons to make certain moves in-game. I don't tolerate convincing or playing table politics. People who tell others how to play out their moves rather than allow them to think and make their own misplays or do things their own unique way draw my ire in a game, but that's not from malice - one must attack or target someone… so nice to have criteria on who to start with.
I get the impression that you don't win very much because of your poor threat assessment. You go after the person more likely to win immediately first, then the person most likely to cause you to lose second, then hope you have enough resources left to kill off the other guy. It usually breaks down like that. Of course it's more complicated than that, but as a rule of thumb it's not bad.
The "malice" from attacking someone who has the most threatening deck and/or board position isn't malice at all, it's good play. "Retaliation" is often counterproductive, devolving into you and that opponent having a pissing match while the other two players greatly benefit. It sounds to me like you're unskilled in politics so you go after those that are? I mean, sure, if a guy is always trying to play for other people, he's being obnoxious, but pointing out that there's an Aura Shards on the field and the Enchantress player has a Seal of Cleansing while I have an innocent ol' No Mercy benefits both of us. I get to keep my dissuading enchantment and the Enchantress player isn't blown out by Aura Mutation.
Total retaliation just doesn't benefit either party well. You're effectively saying, "I may lose, but at least you won't win," which seems very anti-social to me.
I think you're misunderstanding. My point is that having criteria on when and with whom to go offensive is important to avoiding games of everyone passively building their board until someone wins or the game grinds. I have my reasons for that. It's not about "pissing matches" or how adept you think I am with politics. I don't play into them. I make the plays I choose to make and I act independently to see how well my deck and I can perform without the direct intervention of others or benefit of politics. I didn't say anything about pointing things out. We know players who will have a PW ready to bomb and use politics and move critiques to distract everyone from attacking them or stopping it, for example "Oh look over there, in 7 turns that Chronologist will level up giving him many extra turns, you should use your X and Y to destroy that, then return Solemnity to that player's hand, and don't forget to attack that other guy!" They die to me first. I like to observe people make their own decisions, not have their plays dictated to them by someone trying to benefit off their moves. If that's how they want to play EDH, play Mindslaver or Emrakul.
Retaliation means everyone is being passive, but you just Wrath'ed with an Avacyn out and I had the most creatures, so I choose you as my first target. *Something* needs to get players active. We're all friends having fun, but eventually someone's move gets someone else going. It's a fun way of having a reason to attack your friends.
It's really the first thing that comes to mind when I think about him though.
Hidetsugu cruel and ridiculously exaggerated vengeance is one of the most memorable plot lines of the block for me and one of the reasons it became my favorite plane.
Choryu as some kind of water mage or Minamo agent just wouldn't do it for me.
>Looks up what happened to Choryu
Oh. Ohhhh! Now I get it. That's pretty messed up, even considering Magic lore as a whole.
It was very sad and horrific. Especially since he was young and just following orders. I thought he had the worst fate of all in MTG until I saw what became of Konda...
On the other hand, Hidetsugu not only got his revenge, but he ended up becoming a being on par with The Sisters.
That sickened me too. I was glad when Kiku and Toshi defeated him. Then he ascended. Oh well, poor Choryu. And Toshi didn't make it out all that great either, blind and exiled. Those novels are my favorite in MTG lore though. I just want the remaining characters on cards, starting with Choryu. If we can't get return to Kamigawa, then at least that.
Glad Test of Metal isn't canon, or largely isn't. Badly written and I didn't like how the treated Silas Renn in it. Silas Renn is quickly becoming my favorite EDH deck btw. So much fun, he's so cool.
A proper representation of Choryu ain't happening this year though.
Because none of the decks is wall tribal.
That was nasty and you know it.
Sorry, couldn't help it.
It's really the first thing that comes to mind when I think about him though.
Hidetsugu cruel and ridiculously exaggerated vengeance is one of the most memorable plot lines of the block for me and one of the reasons it became my favorite plane.
Choryu as some kind of water mage or Minamo agent just wouldn't do it for me.
>Looks up what happened to Choryu
Oh. Ohhhh! Now I get it. That's pretty messed up, even considering Magic lore as a whole.
It was very sad and horrific. Especially since he was young and just following orders. I thought he had the worst fate of all in MTG until I saw what became of Konda...
EDIT: Regarding cats. I started playing with Innistrad and only read the Kamigawa books, so I'm not familiar with any other Cats. I'm sure Ajani is a thing, perhaps Mirrodin cats, IDK. It's an obscure tribe anyway.
Just because you're obsessed with Jenrik and Choryu doesn't mean everyone else is, and that's what you have to factor in when wanting things to be in these products. That doesn't excuse what they did with guys like Ludevic or Ulrich though.
Also, I don't know why you insist on assigning strong terms like "trash" to things.
Furthermore, I started getting involved with this game around Theros, and I know more about Alara than I do about Theros. I just find the former plane more interesting than the latter. Speaking of Alara, there are at least two prominent Cats to be taken from that plane: Marisi (the Bolas agent who split up the Cat tribes into the Wild and Cloud Nacatl, and who orchestrated the death of Ajani's brother at Bolas's behest to prevent the two tribes from making peace) and Zaliki (the female Cat priestess who actually carried out the act of killing Jazal Goldmane). Of those two, Zaliki is more likely to be in the Cat deck itself.
I didn't say I expected anyone else to be obsessed with those characters though. It's what I want to see, especially over new, random characters when we get those all the time elsewhere and only get past characters in Commander products. So I consider randoms to be an unfortunate loss of potential. For the record, Jenrik is dead. And technically, WOTC did release him on a card as I requested. It just happened to be Tamiyo's Journal. :roll eyes:
Trash: I explained it a while ago, but if I rant or say very abrasive things, it's an old form of humor from the YGO forums (when I used to play that game) where "card games are serious business" and "tell us how you really feel" are implied. For example, Crystal Beasts was a popular deck in YGO, but Konami is trash (this time I mean it literally) and never gives players what they want. So when a new set is announced its many fans will be like "CB support or I'm mailing them the charred remnants of my deck with Anthrax" - horrible, but also funny because you just know we're all screwed over in that game and yet have passion for it. Not to be taken literally. I carried that humor to MTG, where things like Jenrik getting killed over getting a card bring it out. Since YGO designs horrible… everything… my catchphrase on the forum (before a set is even revealed) was "Set is trash." And it always was, too lol
It's cool you know about Alara, but I just don't. I'm not familiar with famous Cats and don't really need to be since it's not my style. I read up on Esper because I do love Silas Renn.
It is almost as if a multiplayer game in which everyone is working for the same goal that only one person can have is inherently political.
When you try to influence the decisions of others (especially into disadvantaging someone else despite being a valid target) you get killed. I retaliate in commander. Someone, doing something, will inevitably inconvenience me and I'll retaliate. I like having reasons to make certain moves in-game. I don't tolerate convincing or playing table politics. People who tell others how to play out their moves rather than allow them to think and make their own misplays or do things their own unique way draw my ire in a game, but that's not from malice - one must attack or target someone… so nice to have criteria on who to start with.
Jenrik should be a Wizard IMO. He wasn't just an astronomer, but an astronomancer as well. Science mingles with magic in this multiverse, so a Wizard in a sense is a scientist as well. Take for example Lunar Mystic.
Should I remind you again that "astronomancer" is a word that you made up? He was always just an astronomer.
"Tamiyo is particularly enamored with the mysteries of Innistrad and its silver moon. Observing them for many cycles, she carefully charted the forces at work, including the moon's influence on the lycanthropic curse and the ebb and flow of the vampire frenzies. Her curiosity eventually led her to the door of the famed astronomancer Jenrik, where she spent months poring over his countless charts and adding her own observations."
Consider all your Red logic… countered. U
EDIT: Regarding cats. I started playing with Innistrad and only read the Kamigawa books, so I'm not familiar with any other Cats. I'm sure Ajani is a thing, perhaps Mirrodin cats, IDK. It's an obscure tribe anyway.
If you can get me off my phone and engaged in the game then it's fun.
You die first.
I find this thread nonsensical. First you have to define casualness, then you have to define funness... I dunno, it all seems silly to me considering hashing out those definitions could take ages. Personally, the only Magic I don't enjoy in a game where there is nothing on the line would be non-interactive decks. Kill my creatures, blow up my lands, get rid of my hand, whatever. Just don't sit back all game doing nothing because I will politic you into the ground.
There are a lot of facets to answering that question, but usually for me I kill players first who:
0. THEFT EFFECTS - Guaranteed Countering, Misery and untimely Death
1. Whine
2. Try to influence other people's decisions (namely into disadvantaging someone other than themselves)
3. Play on the politics (I always attack players who try to make deals, including with me even if it's for my benefit)
4. Anyone accelerating too fast or exploding early - have some tact. You will get shut down.
5. Group Hug
6. Aren't paying attention
7. Are playing cards that slow down or reset the game, threaten my strategy, or are generally chaotic in nature such as Land Destruction or constant board wipes
8. People who try to predict my cards, ask if I am playing such and such next, generally expecting me to divulge information
9. Rhystic Study
10. Someone playing generally annoying cards like Dovescape or having absurd combos like Ghave and Martyr Bond or whatever - inconveniencing everyone else with lockouts
11. Infinite Combo players
As a general idea of what I don't like beyond obviously retaliating, which is what one does in EDH.
So... anyone doing anything is who you kill first? Impressive.
Anyone playing chaotic strategies, not paying attention or relying on politics, yes.
Actually, this article is the entire problem. Neo-Nazis? Really? Way to buy into propaganda. And the Trump reference about "locker room talk" - way to push your political agendas on a card game forum and assume your opinions are the status quo, and the only right way to think. That's why everyone is sick of liberals and SJWs. Arrogance and ignorance. No one gives a damn bro, we're here for card games. Get over yourselves and off your righteous soapbox.
Best solution is to de-power PWs in writing.
I'll reserve Ixalan judgment until we discover just how Ajani makes it there. Aether trails or whatever could be a thing.
Or you know, blame it on the a-a-a-a-alcohol.
Theme of the plane: This is a Retro-Futuristic Sci-Fi meets Magic world in the same sense that Kaladesh was Steampunk meets Magic. Sub-tropical plane that looks like Central Florida. This is a technologically advanced plane on par with Kaladesh or Mirrodin, but its technology is used for spacefaring and has a Sci-Fi flare with large orbiting rings, rockets, etc. Think 1950's and 60's concept art of the future. There are also deep ocean exploration spheres/submersibles. Think Sci-Fi + 1000 Leagues Under the Sea. The plane values artifice and is primarily Blue aligned. Wildlife on Larodif proper is small.
Exploration is a major theme of Larodif. Artifice is life, but materials and knowledge exist in its unique skies. Long since depleted for its majestic cityscapes along the coast, Larodif looks to its unique solar system for resources. Larodif has a unique moon with powerful gravity assisting with liftoff making space-bourne crafts possible. Vehicles guide Humans and Vedalken astronauts alike to the largest 5 moons of Larodif's solar system beyond its own, all orbiting gas giant planets that can be seen in its night sky as large stars. Each moon is dominated by primarily one color of mana. The verdant jungles of one, where large wildlife exists. The Red moon, Acoaca is where the radiation-impervious metal for spaceflight is mined. The mysterious Blue-aligned moon named Mare is said to harbor fearsome krakens and highly intelligent octopi. Strange radio frequencies have been detected from this moon, possibly communications, but exploration is impossible due to a thick icy shell which only one crew, who perished, have managed to penetrate.
Astronomers are the most powerful wizards on Larodif. For art reference, check out the card Vedalken Engineer
Cards:
Lunar Shuttle 2
Legendary Artifact - Vehicle
Crew 3
Vigilance, Haste
If Lunar Shuttle is crewed by 3 Blue Wizard creatures, it gains flying until end of turn.
4/4
Vedalken Astronomer UUU
Creature - Vedalken Wizard
0/3
When Vedalken Astronomer enters the battlefield, scry 3, then reveal the top card of your library. You may play that card this turn.
Launch Pad 3UU
Legendary Enchantment
When Launch Pad or an Artificer creature enters the battlefield under your control, reveal the top card of your library. If it is a Vehicle, add it to your hand.
1U: Scry 1
Kraken of Frozen Mare 4UU
Creature - Kraken
6/4
When Kraken ETB, untap all Islands you control.
5UU: Return Kraken to your hand
Long thought to be a perilous sea since the loss of Flight 07:13, space sailors approached with due caution
Flight Cadet 01 W
Creature - Human
2/1
Vigilance
"See that glowing ball in the sky? I'm gonna grow up to walk there just like daddy!"
Sorcerer of the Frozen Sea 2U
Creature - Cephalid
When Sea Sorcerer ETB, scry 1 and reveal the top card of your library, if it is a Kraken, add U to your mana pool.
Retaliation means everyone is being passive, but you just Wrath'ed with an Avacyn out and I had the most creatures, so I choose you as my first target. *Something* needs to get players active. We're all friends having fun, but eventually someone's move gets someone else going. It's a fun way of having a reason to attack your friends.
Glad Test of Metal isn't canon, or largely isn't. Badly written and I didn't like how the treated Silas Renn in it. Silas Renn is quickly becoming my favorite EDH deck btw. So much fun, he's so cool.
I didn't say I expected anyone else to be obsessed with those characters though. It's what I want to see, especially over new, random characters when we get those all the time elsewhere and only get past characters in Commander products. So I consider randoms to be an unfortunate loss of potential. For the record, Jenrik is dead. And technically, WOTC did release him on a card as I requested. It just happened to be Tamiyo's Journal. :roll eyes:
Trash: I explained it a while ago, but if I rant or say very abrasive things, it's an old form of humor from the YGO forums (when I used to play that game) where "card games are serious business" and "tell us how you really feel" are implied. For example, Crystal Beasts was a popular deck in YGO, but Konami is trash (this time I mean it literally) and never gives players what they want. So when a new set is announced its many fans will be like "CB support or I'm mailing them the charred remnants of my deck with Anthrax" - horrible, but also funny because you just know we're all screwed over in that game and yet have passion for it. Not to be taken literally. I carried that humor to MTG, where things like Jenrik getting killed over getting a card bring it out. Since YGO designs horrible… everything… my catchphrase on the forum (before a set is even revealed) was "Set is trash." And it always was, too lol
It's cool you know about Alara, but I just don't. I'm not familiar with famous Cats and don't really need to be since it's not my style. I read up on Esper because I do love Silas Renn.
https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Jenrik
"Jenrik was a mysterious astronmancer living in a tall tower on the the Silver Beach of Innistrad's province of Nephalia."
http://magic.wizards.com/en/story/planeswalkers/tamiyo
"Tamiyo is particularly enamored with the mysteries of Innistrad and its silver moon. Observing them for many cycles, she carefully charted the forces at work, including the moon's influence on the lycanthropic curse and the ebb and flow of the vampire frenzies. Her curiosity eventually led her to the door of the famed astronomancer Jenrik, where she spent months poring over his countless charts and adding her own observations."
Consider all your Red logic… countered. U
EDIT: Regarding cats. I started playing with Innistrad and only read the Kamigawa books, so I'm not familiar with any other Cats. I'm sure Ajani is a thing, perhaps Mirrodin cats, IDK. It's an obscure tribe anyway.