Flickerwisp enters the battlefield and Silverback Ape is targeted and exiled.
Flickerwisp is then sent to graveyard with Murder during that same main phase.
At the end of turn does the Ape return?
I think this is a "yes" but I'm not sure because the spell reads: "Return that card to play under it's owner's control at end of turn". It doesn't say "..from the game then return that card to play...".
Grrrr... this is what makes playing down at my LCS so frustrating. As a relatively new player I'm basically expected to take whatever the 'veterans' up there are saying as gospel.. but I digress.
It's important to note here the secondary ability triggers regardless of the amount of triggers placed on it by the current Ordeal or any other spell/ability. So, for example, when Ordeal of Heliod is cast on a Fabled Hero with three +1 counters on it already, its secondary trigger will immediately activate causing the life gain.
The bolded section above is incorrect:
9/15/2013: The check of whether the enchanted creature has three or more +1/+1 counters on it happens as part of the resolution of the attack triggered ability. If the third +1/+1 counter is put on the enchanted creature any other way, you won’t sacrifice the Ordeal until the next time the creature attacks.
Simply casting Ordeal of Heliod on the Fabled Hero with 3 +1/+1 counters on it will not cause the sacrifice to trigger; the Hero must attack first.
Then I'll be straightening out some folks down at my local card shop here.
I seriously lost a game bc of this.
So, as a follow on to this. I see some disparity in how people interpret the Ordeals placed on creatures with Heroic abilities. As in this archived post, it's basically agreed upon that an Ordeal would trigger the Heroic. Several other posts suggest that it would not and that the spell needs to employ the word "target" in order for the Heroic to trigger.
I see the Ordeals used incorrectly often. Folks will run an Ordeal up to its 3rd counter, sac it, gain the buff, then later place another Ordeal on the same creature and run it up to three as well before sac'ing it. I think it's the "Then if..." verbiage that leads to this.
It's important to note here the secondary ability triggers regardless of the amount of triggers placed on it by the current Ordeal or any other spell/ability. So, for example, when Ordeal of Heliod is cast on a Fabled Hero with three +1 counters on it already, it's secondary trigger will immediately activate causing the life gain.
I had a similar scenario happen to me but it unfolded slightly differently. At a Sunday afternoon sealed constructed tournament my round 1 went as can be expected with a mull resulting in a 6 card draw. Two rounds later I had someone ask me before we started "Are we doing friendly mulligan or no?". Next round we started playing without establishing the "friendly mulligan rule" but on his first game, first hand, he mulligans to a full 7 cards then asks "oh friendly mulligan, right?".
Come to find out, that is standard fare for this gaming shop. I was just surprised that out of the 4 different people I played there were so many different approaches to the subject of mulligans.
207.2c An ability word appears in italics at the beginning of some abilities. Ability words are similar to keywords in that they tie together cards that have similar functionality, but they have no special rules meaning and no individual entries in the Comprehensive Rules. The ability words are battalion, bloodrush, channel, chroma, constellation, domain, fateful hour, grandeur, hellbent, heroic, imprint, inspired, join forces, kinship, landfall, metalcraft, morbid, parley, radiance, strive, sweep, tempting offer, threshold, and will of the council.
111.1. A spell is a card on the stack. As the first step of being cast (see rule 601, “Casting Spells”), the card becomes a spell and is moved to the top of the stack from the zone it was in, which is usually its owner’s hand. (See rule 405, “Stack.”) A spell remains on the stack as a spell until it resolves (see rule 608, “Resolving Spells and Abilities”), is countered (see rule 701.5), or otherwise leaves the stack. For more information, see section 6, “Spells, Abilities, and Effects.”
I tap Cabal Coffers while having 4 swamps on the battlefield + Caged Sun naming black. How much mana do I get? 5 or 8? I'm thinking 5 because it says "whenever a land adds one or more".
1- Yes, you get 5 mana, coffers adds all the mana in a single mana ability, thus Caged sun only adds a single extra mana.
What am I missing here? He taps one swamp giving him two black mana per Caged Sun's ability. He then activates Cabal Coffers with that two mana leaving him a net four mana from the four swamps in play. Where is the extra "one" coming from?
Alright, Dig Through Time is a bad choice for the example, just replace it with some other Sorcery or Creature that has delve.
It would be the same result due to the immediate payment of spell cost. So considering the same scenario as your example with Necropolis Fiend being cast instead of Dig Through Time.
- Player A cast Necropolis Fiend with 7 cards in his graveyard
- As the creature spell is placed on the stack the cost of exiling cards is paid
- Priority shifts to Player B who places Tormod's Crypt's ability on the stack
- Priority shifts back to Player A who has no response
- Crypt clears the [now empty] graveyard
- Creature spell resolves
Many thanks for the input everyone! I like the draft option. @Discard, many thanks for the ideas on trading them.. great idea!
Fwiw, I did buy the box locally here. I do all I can to support our LGS; even going as far as to spend allot of time digging through unsorted boxes for stuff before resorting to online sources. And although I've heard and roughly understand the box mapping concept I never thought there was anything more to it than just opening packs from target areas of the box then moving once something of value is found - all based on the theory that two chase cards won't likely end up side by side in a single row.
Is there more to it than that or is that pretty much it?
Attn seasoned box opening gurus :: If you pulled an Elspeth, a Xenagos, Thassa after opening 1/2 a box of Theros, would you bother opening the rest or just sell it off?
Flickerwisp is then sent to graveyard with Murder during that same main phase.
At the end of turn does the Ape return?
I think this is a "yes" but I'm not sure because the spell reads: "Return that card to play under it's owner's control at end of turn". It doesn't say "..from the game then return that card to play...".
So is Willdice incorrect in his response on this relate post?
Then I'll be straightening out some folks down at my local card shop here.
I seriously lost a game bc of this.
So, as a follow on to this. I see some disparity in how people interpret the Ordeals placed on creatures with Heroic abilities. As in this archived post, it's basically agreed upon that an Ordeal would trigger the Heroic. Several other posts suggest that it would not and that the spell needs to employ the word "target" in order for the Heroic to trigger.
Ruling on this?
It's important to note here the secondary ability triggers regardless of the amount of triggers placed on it by the current Ordeal or any other spell/ability. So, for example, when Ordeal of Heliod is cast on a Fabled Hero with three +1 counters on it already, it's secondary trigger will immediately activate causing the life gain.
Come to find out, that is standard fare for this gaming shop. I was just surprised that out of the 4 different people I played there were so many different approaches to the subject of mulligans.
What am I missing here? He taps one swamp giving him two black mana per Caged Sun's ability. He then activates Cabal Coffers with that two mana leaving him a net four mana from the four swamps in play. Where is the extra "one" coming from?
It would be the same result due to the immediate payment of spell cost. So considering the same scenario as your example with Necropolis Fiend being cast instead of Dig Through Time.
- Player A cast Necropolis Fiend with 7 cards in his graveyard
- As the creature spell is placed on the stack the cost of exiling cards is paid
- Priority shifts to Player B who places Tormod's Crypt's ability on the stack
- Priority shifts back to Player A who has no response
- Crypt clears the [now empty] graveyard
- Creature spell resolves
Fwiw, I did buy the box locally here. I do all I can to support our LGS; even going as far as to spend allot of time digging through unsorted boxes for stuff before resorting to online sources. And although I've heard and roughly understand the box mapping concept I never thought there was anything more to it than just opening packs from target areas of the box then moving once something of value is found - all based on the theory that two chase cards won't likely end up side by side in a single row.
Is there more to it than that or is that pretty much it?