I'm trying to like the Firedrinker but with Rakdos Cackler and Bellows Lizard in standard I don't think it will see any real play. Cackler is a great turn 1 play with little draw back and I've never seen the lizard played. Yes a 2/1 is much better but I don't get the jump from common to rare requires that much of a draw back. The +1/+0 should have only cost R but be limited to the number of activations per turn.
People are allowed to value things however they want. Value is measured in three ways.
1. monitary: this one is pretty unargueable.
2. Competitively: this one is the big issue; how will it be played, how strong is it.
3. Personally: this is what everyone does. People have opinions about cards they love. If someone loves a squire, its their choice. They value what a squire wrong. They do know how to value things, its just a different value than YOUR value.
Ok lets focus on 1 and 2.
Monetary. Yea this one is hard to argue, you can predict somewhat, but did anyone predict boros reckoner going up to 30$ after gatecrash release because he was in every deck?
Competitively. This is a huge issue. The biggest problem is not taking cards in the context of their metagame. Another problem is most of the MTGS posters are just bad. this is where the 'duuuuuurrrr this card sucks' opinions come from, without any testing on say cockatrice or MWS, without any idea of what role it plays in the archetype it will be played in. Cards like Satyr are very easy to evaluate. You already have an existing archetype, RDW, it replaces a card rotating, it does the job of an efficient red 1 drop.
Personal opinion. Ok people have their 'this card is so good in my edh deck' or whatever. Cool. Just don't get it confused with 'this card is going to suck and i will hate opening it', because that will quickly change if the card goes up to 8$ like vexing devil and stormkirk noble.
I would say more than likely a sideboard card. If non-UW decks start to make an impact, an argument could be made as to where to place him (if at all). I'm just pretty sure he's going to be facing other card in the 3 slot (Reckoner, etc.). If he had haste from the get go, like he should have, then it would probably fit right into the most aggressive red builds we could possibly foresee.
mindsparker is a solid sb card, reckoner is generally better but mindsparker can be stronger after sideboard. Chandra's pheonix is most likely an autoinclude in rdw, anger of the gods and ooze are good hate cards against it though.
You've probably got it right. I don't really think that Puphoros is meant for RDW; I've stated before that he's got combo potential, and I also think that he's better in a Mid-Range build with 30+ creatures.
Purphoros (at least as I see it) wants to shoot for a lot of damage with his static ability, and if he swings in, then gravy. RDW doesn't want that, cause RDW wants to win quick, and Purphoros wants to go for slow, steady burn as you drop more and more threats. I'd probably run Purphoros in Red/Blue Tempo-Combo, or in Red/Green Zoo. Purphoros probably isn't too good in RDW. That said, if you've got his Hammer out in RDW, then he's a lot better, cause he comes down and swings for 6 on turn 4. On the other hand, I don't know how viable the Hammer is except as a late drop if you get land-flooded, as you really want to just drop creatures every turn in RDW and finish with burn.
Thus, you're probably right about the Fanatic of Mogis. He's a good quick damage pusher, who will never do as much damage overall as Purphoros, but will almost always do more damage in one burst.
purphoros has potential with cards like young pyromancer and akroan crusader looks sweet too. molten birth maybe
realistically mogis will never do more than 3-4 dmg when played and then your board gets cleaned up by verdict or anger of the gods, purphoros survives and adds 2 dmg to every creature you continue to play which gives you a lot of reach.
also purphoros if nothing happens and you already got 3 2/2 bears on board , purphoros can double your power on the board for 4 mana.
I am not sure you playtested purphoros, he is insane.
Mogis is only better if that initial damage would kill the opponent and in every case that mogis does considerable damage you would not only get all static and activated benefits from purphoros, you also get a 6/5 attacker next turn.
we are taking about purphoros in RDW. Hes bad in RDW.
Hes ok in big red
Than all me to concur. Coming onto a site and calling other people scrubs and shooting them down for playing cards you consider bad does make you sound like a jerk. Maybe they like their midrange WGB decks. Who are you to judge. I know fun is usually frowned upon in standard. But sometimes, its gonna happen. If new players dont like losing lofe for their attacks, who the hell cares. They arent a scrub, they are someone who doesnt like losing life. Maybe their deck isnt tier one. I bet they dont care. Sorry for the rant, but snobby standard players really get under my skin sometimes, and i keep getting in trouble for taking the moral internet high road and trolling them, instead of just saying flat out, youre being a magic jackass. Real it back, let people enjoy the GAME however they want. Let them talk about THEIR OPINIONS ( opinions dont make you a scrub, they make you sentient), and for gods sake, dont name call on a website!*
*i did it a few times too, but i at least accept that i had to.
Im sorry everyone. Back to your discussion.
Some big mad in here.
Firstly the word scrub is not a derogatory term, no need to get defensive.It is simply a term used for someone who doesn't play to win. Now I'm not saying don't be casual, play what how and where you want, what I'm saying is the opinions of casuals have absolutely no ****ing value for discussing spoiler cards.
uh? you don't get it, you don't have to save anything in hand or play any different than before to play and use purphoros.
If you think Mogis is better that is just laughable, Purphoros will deal far more damage than Mogis over a game.
its not the amount dealt over the duration of the game. its the amount dealt in the first 5 turns that matters more for RDW. Control decks have good lifegain cards still after rotation.
If control deck stabilizes purphoros really doesn't do much. Fanatic of mogis burns their face, hopefully putting the control player into burn spell range so if he taps out to verdict or elspeth you can just searing spear him, get your chandras pheonix back and GG.
For 4 drops in RDW fanatic of mogis is the best one atm, doesn't replace hellrider but still does a decent amount of damage pre creature that you have.
Chandra the pyromaster would be the other 4 drop i would consider, but mogis is still better.
Yes you're missing a ton LOL. It doesn't matter if it dies, if it has haste, it gets damage in and then you wait for the next one to show up, which Domri Rade and Garruk will help you find.
Also control games go a LONG TIME. like 10+ turns. I've had pretty much close to ten mana cards on most control games I've played, what would a control player do when x=8 or 9? NADA.
Also Junk/Naya Hexproof approves.
If control has 10 mana hes going to be gaining 7 life and drawing 7 cards. Can this card beat that?
I like this card with izzet charm and steam augery. Is it going to be playable? No idea, the deck might just suck balls, but there is lots of support in young pyromancer and nivix cyclops so it might be ok.
lol you don't lose more tempo with purphoros that you would have lost by dropping another 4 drop.
What you don't seem to understand is that Purphoros does not care about devotion.
Havng your next creature drop deal 2 damage immediately gives you reach and tempo after a verdict not lose it.
Having Purphoros survive the verdict and then drop and otherwise useless midrange 1 drop but also shock the opponent who already took damage is GREAT. It add values to red aggro wheenies late.
I predict we will see lots of decks in either mono red that all play purphoros and aggro decks in U/R with purphoros, yp and master of the waves, omen speaker, tidebinder mage
ok so your saying as the RDW player I shouldn't be dumping my hand early vs control and save all my cards, so he can save essence scatter for purphoros, play more lands, draw cards and gain life?
Man, I really liked early Theros previews, but this one irks me.
First, I never like obvious hate cards for the previous block.
Second, I don't like when they needlessly invalidate previous cards (Elite Vanguard). Dryad Militant was equally guilty of this (including being another hate card), but at least it was a different creature type and color.
Cards with "pushed" power levels are just annoying because they require no real evaluation. IF there's a white aggro deck, this goes in as a 4x. Straightforward. (Not that white aggro has been a thing lately.)
It's better for the game in general to have stronger creatures then spells, anyone who played during combo winter can attest to that. Psychatog decks was quite disgusting in its day also. If you compare this and elite vanguard, its not a huge difference. If you compare cancel to counterspell it's disgusting.
it is better against supreme verdict than any other creature since it does not die and the whole argument is flawed..
.
I don't see how this is good against supreme verdict in RDW. He wipes your board, you lose devotion, you basically just wasted the tempo of your 4 drop on a play that did nothing
Sure u dont lose the card itself, but no one seems to understand aggro is not about cards its about tempo and doing as much damage to the face as possible. Fanatic of mogis is a much better card then this, since you get your lava axe immediately.
so next turn you draw some dorky red creature to an empty board against control, so he takes another 2, while your opponent is drawing cards, gaining life, and putting the game away.
Purphoros is very decent against non control decks though. Along with boros reckoner purphoros can really even the score if your opponent dropping fatties to block, but please don't be mistaken that this card will ever does against decks running revelations, supreme verdicts, omenspeakers and azorious charms (if its still a deck post rotation).
gift of immortality has potential. Probably best to pair it with thoughtseize, so you can strip their hand to protect yourself from 2 for 1, once its stuck on a value creature your in good shape.
bellows lizard is terrible.
The drawback on fire drinker is negligible. If your in a situation where he has to block then you are already losing.
Ok lets focus on 1 and 2.
Monetary. Yea this one is hard to argue, you can predict somewhat, but did anyone predict boros reckoner going up to 30$ after gatecrash release because he was in every deck?
Competitively. This is a huge issue. The biggest problem is not taking cards in the context of their metagame. Another problem is most of the MTGS posters are just bad. this is where the 'duuuuuurrrr this card sucks' opinions come from, without any testing on say cockatrice or MWS, without any idea of what role it plays in the archetype it will be played in. Cards like Satyr are very easy to evaluate. You already have an existing archetype, RDW, it replaces a card rotating, it does the job of an efficient red 1 drop.
Personal opinion. Ok people have their 'this card is so good in my edh deck' or whatever. Cool. Just don't get it confused with 'this card is going to suck and i will hate opening it', because that will quickly change if the card goes up to 8$ like vexing devil and stormkirk noble.
mindsparker is a solid sb card, reckoner is generally better but mindsparker can be stronger after sideboard. Chandra's pheonix is most likely an autoinclude in rdw, anger of the gods and ooze are good hate cards against it though.
purphoros has potential with cards like young pyromancer and akroan crusader looks sweet too. molten birth maybe
we are taking about purphoros in RDW. Hes bad in RDW.
Hes ok in big red
Some big mad in here.
Firstly the word scrub is not a derogatory term, no need to get defensive.It is simply a term used for someone who doesn't play to win. Now I'm not saying don't be casual, play what how and where you want, what I'm saying is the opinions of casuals have absolutely no ****ing value for discussing spoiler cards.
its not the amount dealt over the duration of the game. its the amount dealt in the first 5 turns that matters more for RDW. Control decks have good lifegain cards still after rotation.
If control deck stabilizes purphoros really doesn't do much. Fanatic of mogis burns their face, hopefully putting the control player into burn spell range so if he taps out to verdict or elspeth you can just searing spear him, get your chandras pheonix back and GG.
For 4 drops in RDW fanatic of mogis is the best one atm, doesn't replace hellrider but still does a decent amount of damage pre creature that you have.
Chandra the pyromaster would be the other 4 drop i would consider, but mogis is still better.
If control has 10 mana hes going to be gaining 7 life and drawing 7 cards. Can this card beat that?
ok so your saying as the RDW player I shouldn't be dumping my hand early vs control and save all my cards, so he can save essence scatter for purphoros, play more lands, draw cards and gain life?
Fanatic of Mogis is better
Hypocrisy is the essence of snobbery.
It's better for the game in general to have stronger creatures then spells, anyone who played during combo winter can attest to that. Psychatog decks was quite disgusting in its day also. If you compare this and elite vanguard, its not a huge difference. If you compare cancel to counterspell it's disgusting.
Our only hope is for the trolls who will save MTGS from descending into blubbering scrubosity.
I don't see how this is good against supreme verdict in RDW. He wipes your board, you lose devotion, you basically just wasted the tempo of your 4 drop on a play that did nothing
Sure u dont lose the card itself, but no one seems to understand aggro is not about cards its about tempo and doing as much damage to the face as possible. Fanatic of mogis is a much better card then this, since you get your lava axe immediately.
so next turn you draw some dorky red creature to an empty board against control, so he takes another 2, while your opponent is drawing cards, gaining life, and putting the game away.
Purphoros is very decent against non control decks though. Along with boros reckoner purphoros can really even the score if your opponent dropping fatties to block, but please don't be mistaken that this card will ever does against decks running revelations, supreme verdicts, omenspeakers and azorious charms (if its still a deck post rotation).
howbout lets just do a block that's centred around spells and combos. OH yea, only 2 colors will be playable then, Blue and Brown.