Despite what I was saying about how I set up my deck, cause I won't leave home without 4xDaze, you might be right to play them. Look up Jonathan Aiken's deck form SCG legacy opens in Indianapolis and (guessing)Knoxville? earlier this year. 4xCosi's trickster and zero daze. Got a top 8 and a top 16.
sounds a lot like the list that I have been having pretty good luck with. I also settled on 3 Chalice main deck, with the last one in the board pretty much only comes in against U/R delver. I am surprised that you cut daze and kept CMC=1 counters like stifle and divert. I get that they are hard counters rather than a tax effect like daze, but they get blanked by our own chalice. For me, playing chalice or silvergill adept on turn two with daze back up is pretty strong. Once they have extra mana the daze gets pitched to force of will. Or Misdirection, which is hilarious against abrupt decay. If your really set on a hard counter, maybe negateor just counterspell, to play around your own chalice.
The only other change I made was to not run any other one drop besides cursecatcher. I like Cosi's trickster but right now I just run extra two drops instead.
This deck doesn't upset me either. And I would be stunned if there was an emergency ban. There seems to be a lot of ways to fight it and the magic community will discover the best ones over the next few weeks.
That said. And I respect the work of the pros. I think that the opinions of magic professionals, anyone who relies on (actually needs not just enjoys) income from the game, needs to be vetted more not less than the opinion of amateurs. Make an analogy to witness in court. I can prove the defendants mom is a great person, and that she is the worlds foremost expert in the defendant (thousands of hours), but no one is all that impressed by her claims that he is a 'good boy'.
Can pro's really support a deck that can just run hot and cost them a finish?
This isn't supposed to sound cynical, just matter of fact. Basic journalism
He gets a little stream of consciousness talking about it but some of the ideas seemed interesting. No aether vial, standstill, tidal warrior, ninja of the deep hours out of the board, eight man-lands. It was good for a 4-0 start and 5-1 by the time of the interview.
It would help if you put up a list of the cards you have. At least the ones not in the published pre-build. Also, you will get more responses to more specific questions. Good luck with your deck
I am new to the forums as well, so bear with me on the links etc
Definitely see where this deck idea takes you in modern, not legacy.
Check out the "building better decks" by metamorph article/thread in the standard>competitive section. Particularly the part about dependencies and how to evaluate cards that are awesome only when other cards are drawn or other conditions exist.
Correct me if I am wrong but the deck is not really a mill deck or millgro, it's never going to win by zeroing out the opponents library. The plan is to dump stuff into his graveyard to pump our dimir gang and beat down, right?
The small unblockable creatures are probably misplaced. You can attack me all day with invisible stalker if it doesn't have something making it do more damage I am going to ignore it.
A U/B deck with no counters and no discard? Instead of mill, how about hand destruction and counterspells, they are less flashy but they affect the game by removing opposing resources. A la the article, respect your opponent and get some removal spells in there. Example I cast wild nacatl out of my zoo deck and do nothing else but play lands, five turns later when you drop a 20/20 consuming aberation you are at 5 life. Bolt Bolt game.
Some budget Dimir tech you could try, Soul Ransom and pithing needle naming soul ransom if you want to keep the creature rather than temp him to give you cards
If I am wrong and you wanted a mill deck check out
Sorry about the link instead of a list but I couldn't figure out how to do it and cite the originator in the time I had. It's not budget per se but it's a lot cheaper than most modern lists
Why the 1x Unmask? it's a budget thread so obviously not everything is going to be optimized. But I was curious if there was an interaction i am overlooking
Thanks for the list, I understand better what your doing now. One thought that I did have to make use of your mana engine is Azami, Lady of Scolls. On the turn when you go off you will have plenty of mana you just run out of cards. Cosi's Trickster, Cursecatcher, Silvergill Adept, mutavault, and potentially Phantasmal image are all wizards so they can tap (Even when summoning sick) to draw another card and keep the party going. You would also have another option for your Merrow Reejerey trigger, on top of Nykthos or Aether Vial, as untapping a wizard could draw another card.
I have no idea if this would work well or at all. If I was going to try it I would cut Corralhelm commander to bring trickster and cursecatcher up to 4x, find a home for 2x Azami, and probably cut the spreading seas for two more permission spells as you will need to pass the turn once before you can win.
I haven't had to play against tabernacle, yet. Karakas and Mangara of Corondorout of D&T was the only time recently that I really wished I had a wasteland so I'll have to give it some thought.
Also, if your getting that kind of mana off of Nykthos you must have a bunch of dudes, overload a Cyclonic Rift and swing in with the team
I had that same question, but after running it just a bit in my LGS and trying to force it (cause it's legacy, so wasteland is always good, right?) I think wasteland may be wrong at least in the maindeck. And it depends on the build you are running(Vial vs Chalice), and what you would take out for it.
A lot of times rather than drawing a wasteland and setting them back I could have just drawn Lord of Atlantis, Jitte, Sword of whatever, or TNN and just got them dead. Also, most of my opponents don't allow Aether Vial to stay so getting UUup and running is competing against playing waste on turn one or two where it does the most damage
Also Merfolk doesn't run much if any deck manipulation or tutoring and even the card draw is pretty modest so if you need it in a match up I would suspect you need 3-4, because you may never see it if there are only 1-2.
Lastly, I have not run it yet, but I suspect that Stifle is better as a 1-2 of gotcha card that can slip in instead of a spell pierce
Good point. That the changes in the article make standard more like extended. Which I have to assume is pretty unpopular as it's the only format I don't see any of my local stores running.
Maybe extended will become more popular as the start date for modern legal set retreats further into the past.
Nicely written article, although I agree with many of the posts that maybe there isn't so much of a problem to solve. One thing I have learned is that people play magic for an amazing number of different reasons. Changing things to rectify an injustice is always good, but changing things to please any one group usually just upsets some other group(s). Let's not forget that type 2 (standard) was originally justified (at least in part) as making the game accessible to new players. That the cards they needed were still 'in print' so to speak. There is only so easy the game can be and still be interesting. Rather than changing the system it seems there is value to keeping it the same so that new players can learn it. Maybe the frustration any individual has for standard is because they need to find there place as extended, modern, legacy, EDH, or limited players.
People are pretty smart, given consistency and time they will find their optimal place in an environment. Optimal by however they judge whatever it is they thought they wanted. Maybe our game can't give them whatever they hoped for, it's up to them.
So glad to see another installment of this series. It's why I started reading this site. There are only so many articles about the same five popular decks that a person can bear.
I also like appreciate how well your decks can scale up if you are fortunate enough to own a few more cards.
The only other change I made was to not run any other one drop besides cursecatcher. I like Cosi's trickster but right now I just run extra two drops instead.
That said. And I respect the work of the pros. I think that the opinions of magic professionals, anyone who relies on (actually needs not just enjoys) income from the game, needs to be vetted more not less than the opinion of amateurs. Make an analogy to witness in court. I can prove the defendants mom is a great person, and that she is the worlds foremost expert in the defendant (thousands of hours), but no one is all that impressed by her claims that he is a 'good boy'.
Can pro's really support a deck that can just run hot and cost them a finish?
This isn't supposed to sound cynical, just matter of fact. Basic journalism
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_merfolk_deck_tech_wi.html
He gets a little stream of consciousness talking about it but some of the ideas seemed interesting. No aether vial, standstill, tidal warrior, ninja of the deep hours out of the board, eight man-lands. It was good for a 4-0 start and 5-1 by the time of the interview.
Definitely see where this deck idea takes you in modern, not legacy.
Check out the "building better decks" by metamorph article/thread in the standard>competitive section. Particularly the part about dependencies and how to evaluate cards that are awesome only when other cards are drawn or other conditions exist.
Correct me if I am wrong but the deck is not really a mill deck or millgro, it's never going to win by zeroing out the opponents library. The plan is to dump stuff into his graveyard to pump our dimir gang and beat down, right?
The small unblockable creatures are probably misplaced. You can attack me all day with invisible stalker if it doesn't have something making it do more damage I am going to ignore it.
A U/B deck with no counters and no discard? Instead of mill, how about hand destruction and counterspells, they are less flashy but they affect the game by removing opposing resources. A la the article, respect your opponent and get some removal spells in there. Example I cast wild nacatl out of my zoo deck and do nothing else but play lands, five turns later when you drop a 20/20 consuming aberation you are at 5 life. Bolt Bolt game.
Some budget Dimir tech you could try, Soul Ransom and pithing needle naming soul ransom if you want to keep the creature rather than temp him to give you cards
If I am wrong and you wanted a mill deck check out
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=64210
Sorry about the link instead of a list but I couldn't figure out how to do it and cite the originator in the time I had. It's not budget per se but it's a lot cheaper than most modern lists
I have no idea if this would work well or at all. If I was going to try it I would cut Corralhelm commander to bring trickster and cursecatcher up to 4x, find a home for 2x Azami, and probably cut the spreading seas for two more permission spells as you will need to pass the turn once before you can win.
Also, if your getting that kind of mana off of Nykthos you must have a bunch of dudes, overload a Cyclonic Rift and swing in with the team
I had that same question, but after running it just a bit in my LGS and trying to force it (cause it's legacy, so wasteland is always good, right?) I think wasteland may be wrong at least in the maindeck. And it depends on the build you are running(Vial vs Chalice), and what you would take out for it.
A lot of times rather than drawing a wasteland and setting them back I could have just drawn Lord of Atlantis, Jitte, Sword of whatever, or TNN and just got them dead. Also, most of my opponents don't allow Aether Vial to stay so getting UUup and running is competing against playing waste on turn one or two where it does the most damage
Also Merfolk doesn't run much if any deck manipulation or tutoring and even the card draw is pretty modest so if you need it in a match up I would suspect you need 3-4, because you may never see it if there are only 1-2.
Lastly, I have not run it yet, but I suspect that Stifle is better as a 1-2 of gotcha card that can slip in instead of a spell pierce
Maybe extended will become more popular as the start date for modern legal set retreats further into the past.
People are pretty smart, given consistency and time they will find their optimal place in an environment. Optimal by however they judge whatever it is they thought they wanted. Maybe our game can't give them whatever they hoped for, it's up to them.