IMO, this is a late pick and possible 22-23 card. Even possible to sideboard out.
The problems with this card (and I played my prerelease with it) are:
1) The body for a five cost is pretty lame. 4/3 for 5 is lame in this format AND without added impact o the board, it will get outclassed easily.
2) Is not an immediate threat (like let's assume Centaur Battlemaster) in the 5 spot. You untap, possibly have a 6th land AND you still have a 4/3 on the board. Then you have to have ANOTHER land to make it monstruous. And what do you get....a 5/4 with a possible "tiny-firewave".
3)The Possible firewave is living the dream. In this format, by the time you reach a 7th land, there are two possibilities: The board is stalled out because both people have a huge creature and they define the board position. There may be smaller creatures, but they will not have enough impact. Therefore 2 points of damage to each creature may not be enough to either kill their huge creature or impact the board enough.
Conclusion: Possible 22-23 or even side board. possible 14-15th pick in Pack 1
Ive never seen a card turn so many tides like Elspeth. Everybody has been in the receiving end of "I was about to win....and then he dropped Elsepeth".
There is not one card that has the capability of having so much direct impact as Elspeth.
I played last weekend with crystalline nautilus, it did do work, but overall Im leaning towards the bad card. This card has several modes, but are all bad:
1. As a fragile 4/4 for 3. Not a very good card in a meta filled of bestow, combat tricks,etc. Personally I think its the "best" mode as it forces your opponent to use a card on it, but, generally is not great.
2. As a 4/4 Bestow card for your team. This is comparable to mischief and mayhem, which on the right deck could end as a finisher, but generally was not great. The advantage is that it leaves a 4/4 body (see #1). The bad side is....bestow mode gives your opponent almost a "free" kill spell, and in a format that lacks kill spells, this is not great.
3. As pseudo-removal. This is a "living the dream" mode. You need to have at least 6 mana, 5 for the bestow and 1 more minimum to be able to target your opponents creature. In a slower/sealed it can do work, but effectively there are better things that can be done for 6 mana...AND you need to spend one of your combat trick or kill spells anyway (unless you have activated abilities). WAY too situational
So overall...Wayyy too situational...maybe a sideboard card.
Went to a WNM running a modified version of lutz list and I ran the strutcoes list last week and here are my findings:
Card of the night: Gyre sage It went to work this card. Ramping in the early turns and in the late turns turning into a 5/6. What a work horse
Dissapointment of the night: Armada wurm It may not be your time just yet armada wurm, not just yet. When I put it down I was almost winning the game already, so it didn't do much. More experimenting will need to be done.
Other findings:
1) Strutcoes list can run out of gas pretty fast where the lutz list can go longer and is a lot more midrange. Depending on your meta both versions can be good.
2) Plummet is a card Ill be sideboarding in for the following reasons: other than selesnya charm (which only targets +5 creatures) and banisher priest (which can be killed/exiled/etc.. so its somewhat soft removal) there is ZERO answer to flyers. Everything that goes flip flap will always knock us on the head. Sure, celestial flare is a possibility.....but is not a consistent one. Additionally, plummet addresses other things like nightveil specter, liev skynight, EVEN Chandra's phoenix (to which I lost 3 matches, granted there was some flooding but still). Im even thinking about running windstorm because of the ridiculous amount of mana that can be generated, which brings me to my next point.
3) 23 or 24 land. 23 I can maybe get mana screwed and 24 I will get mana flooded for sure. That's the story of yesterday. When I ran 24 land I got mana flooded (no joke in one game of 12 turns I drew 2 spells and 10 land). On the other hand with 23 land I may not hit landrop 4 by turn four. What is your experience with this guys? I find the perfect fix is Lutz list as Gyre sage does quite the amount of work, specially that EVERYTHING evolves this guy so he becomes a threat in late game and in early game its quite the ramp.
3) Chronicler of heroes...Lutz list cant live without it...or can it? If you run Lutz list, there is a HUGE gaping hole for three drops which chronicler fills pretty nicely. Problem is without gyre sage or E1 on the previous turns it more than luckluster. So my question is...is there a better 3 drop to run? Perhaps the return of witchstalker? Or is it a must in this version?
Games log:
* 2-0 G/R monsters (extra game) . So far I am 5-0 Matches against with both versions.
* 1-2 Mono red: 1 mana flood game and one game outraced by Chandra's phoenix with madcap skills.
* 0-2 B/W/R Control: One game was a horrible misplay and the other was down to the wire.
* 2-1 Rackdos Aggro: Lost a game to Rakdos lord of riots and Chandra's Phoenix. Again...f*** flyers.
Saturday I will have a GPT and I will more than likely be running good old G/W. It may get me places or it may bomb (yesterday I went 2-2, mostly due to mana flodding). We will see.
Im running the 'Stroutscoe' List with some twists so far, its done okay, but I feel that:
1) No answer to stormbreath is a problem. Flashing skylasher can buy you a turn.....and that's it. That immediately demands a couple of sideboard changes.
2) Skylasher and mistcutter hydra main....is lackluster. With 23 land and no ramp its already hard to cast a hydra that is larger than 4 or 5.....which is already pretty bad taking into consideration wurm / polukranos greatly out class him. Yes, haste is good, but more than often it was overkill.
Im going to hybrid both lists tonight and will come back with a report. I'm not sold on some stuff on lutz list or in struts list either so we will see what becomes of this mish mash.
If my memory serves me well I remember you were running a list with T1 Elvish mystic. Are you still running it? What is your experience in the current meta? Im thinking of boarding out soldier for a little extra ramp with the mystic. Additionally, Im thinking of messing around with Armada Wurm today, as I find against mono-black and R/G it can be quite a beauty, but I don't think I can get there in time.
Mono-Blue Devotion has been one of the easiest match-ups for me. Their best cards are Thassa and Master of Waves, which the token build can easily deal with. Thassa is vulnerable to Charm and the unblockable damage she pushes through is negated by Trostani + Druid's Deliverance. Master of Waves cannot easily alpha strike because every creature in the deck blocks 2/1 elementals very well and there is always the chance that Druid's Deliverance will negate the attack and the Blue player will simply die on the crack back.
I'm not saying MUD can't win. I mentioned in my blog that a good curve of early flyers followed by a Bident gives MUD a decent chance. An overloaded Cyclonic Rift also gives them a pretty good chance in the mid-game. Those are very time-sensitive, though. If they don't have enough flyers or don't have Bident the air-force plan can just be raced. Even if they have a ton of flyers and Bident a single copy of Druid's Deliverance gives GW a chance and two copies practically guarantees that the air-force plan will fail. For the Rift plan if they are unable to overload soon enough GW will just sandbag enough instant Wurms and populators in hand to rebuild instantly.
Personally I have yet to drop a match to MUD in a tournament (though I have lost games). In fact looking at my score sheets I found out just now that I frequently end the game with 30-60 life just because they can never kill Trostani. One change I am trying out is to run Banisher Priests on the side over Time to Feed. I got this idea from Shrout's list and I think it will make the MUD match-up even better.
I took a look at your list and its certainly interesting. I coukd see some potential problems with control decks, mostly U/W but seems like a reasonable list. What about thoughtseize or duress, how dp you handle that?. I expect your mono black matchup favors you as they cant really 1x1 on removal.
I returned to playing G/W after a hiatus and playing R/W devotion and esper....and it was like make up sex. At the beginning rough, but once you got a hold on top of things
It was saucy!
Gave a spin to andrew shrout's list with some twists on a TNM and went 3-1, my only loss to naya hexproof. Games I lost were mostly due to mana screw and honestly I didnt feel like it was a bad matchup.
Won against B/W/R control, R/G monsters and B/G midrange deck.
All star of the night: Scion of vitu ghazi. Populating advent on turn 5 is gold in many match ups. Pacing is key though.
Dissapointment: ajani. Put in the Sideboard a couple of copies and the leonin dissapointet. At best it was a 1 counter and at worst it was a kill this guy pointer. Sorry kitty, but it may be time to sit this out.
New tech to try: gift of orzhova instead of unflinching courage? Anybody try this? Im curious to try it out.
1) Sealed gives you the chance of using a 40 card deck instead of using a 60 card deck. Use this opportunity!
2) the case for splashing red is strong, but why would you include the following cards:
* Wild Celebrants
* Deathbellow Raider
* Mnemonic Wall with only 5 cards that can be targeted?
* A bunch of montains to be able to support the above mentioned cards?
3) Im not really sure what you are trying to go for in this deck: Would it be an aggro type strategy putting ordeals on asphodel wonderer and tormented hero or getting to a late game with grey merchant/underworld Cerberus/ prognostic sphinx. It seems to me your deck is kinda all over the place.
4) Missed opportunity:
* Returned Phalanx on a u/b deck. Can help both in aggro mode and in stalling for late game.
Would you be able to post your results? Im very curious to see how you did with said deck.
The problems with this card (and I played my prerelease with it) are:
1) The body for a five cost is pretty lame. 4/3 for 5 is lame in this format AND without added impact o the board, it will get outclassed easily.
2) Is not an immediate threat (like let's assume Centaur Battlemaster) in the 5 spot. You untap, possibly have a 6th land AND you still have a 4/3 on the board. Then you have to have ANOTHER land to make it monstruous. And what do you get....a 5/4 with a possible "tiny-firewave".
3)The Possible firewave is living the dream. In this format, by the time you reach a 7th land, there are two possibilities: The board is stalled out because both people have a huge creature and they define the board position. There may be smaller creatures, but they will not have enough impact. Therefore 2 points of damage to each creature may not be enough to either kill their huge creature or impact the board enough.
Conclusion: Possible 22-23 or even side board. possible 14-15th pick in Pack 1
Ive never seen a card turn so many tides like Elspeth. Everybody has been in the receiving end of "I was about to win....and then he dropped Elsepeth".
There is not one card that has the capability of having so much direct impact as Elspeth.
1. As a fragile 4/4 for 3. Not a very good card in a meta filled of bestow, combat tricks,etc. Personally I think its the "best" mode as it forces your opponent to use a card on it, but, generally is not great.
2. As a 4/4 Bestow card for your team. This is comparable to mischief and mayhem, which on the right deck could end as a finisher, but generally was not great. The advantage is that it leaves a 4/4 body (see #1). The bad side is....bestow mode gives your opponent almost a "free" kill spell, and in a format that lacks kill spells, this is not great.
3. As pseudo-removal. This is a "living the dream" mode. You need to have at least 6 mana, 5 for the bestow and 1 more minimum to be able to target your opponents creature. In a slower/sealed it can do work, but effectively there are better things that can be done for 6 mana...AND you need to spend one of your combat trick or kill spells anyway (unless you have activated abilities). WAY too situational
So overall...Wayyy too situational...maybe a sideboard card.
Went to a WNM running a modified version of lutz list and I ran the strutcoes list last week and here are my findings:
Card of the night: Gyre sage It went to work this card. Ramping in the early turns and in the late turns turning into a 5/6. What a work horse
Dissapointment of the night: Armada wurm It may not be your time just yet armada wurm, not just yet. When I put it down I was almost winning the game already, so it didn't do much. More experimenting will need to be done.
Other findings:
1) Strutcoes list can run out of gas pretty fast where the lutz list can go longer and is a lot more midrange. Depending on your meta both versions can be good.
2) Plummet is a card Ill be sideboarding in for the following reasons: other than selesnya charm (which only targets +5 creatures) and banisher priest (which can be killed/exiled/etc.. so its somewhat soft removal) there is ZERO answer to flyers. Everything that goes flip flap will always knock us on the head. Sure, celestial flare is a possibility.....but is not a consistent one. Additionally, plummet addresses other things like nightveil specter, liev skynight, EVEN Chandra's phoenix (to which I lost 3 matches, granted there was some flooding but still). Im even thinking about running windstorm because of the ridiculous amount of mana that can be generated, which brings me to my next point.
3) 23 or 24 land. 23 I can maybe get mana screwed and 24 I will get mana flooded for sure. That's the story of yesterday. When I ran 24 land I got mana flooded (no joke in one game of 12 turns I drew 2 spells and 10 land). On the other hand with 23 land I may not hit landrop 4 by turn four. What is your experience with this guys? I find the perfect fix is Lutz list as Gyre sage does quite the amount of work, specially that EVERYTHING evolves this guy so he becomes a threat in late game and in early game its quite the ramp.
3) Chronicler of heroes...Lutz list cant live without it...or can it? If you run Lutz list, there is a HUGE gaping hole for three drops which chronicler fills pretty nicely. Problem is without gyre sage or E1 on the previous turns it more than luckluster. So my question is...is there a better 3 drop to run? Perhaps the return of witchstalker? Or is it a must in this version?
Games log:
* 2-0 G/R monsters (extra game) . So far I am 5-0 Matches against with both versions.
* 1-2 Mono red: 1 mana flood game and one game outraced by Chandra's phoenix with madcap skills.
* 0-2 B/W/R Control: One game was a horrible misplay and the other was down to the wire.
* 2-1 Rackdos Aggro: Lost a game to Rakdos lord of riots and Chandra's Phoenix. Again...f*** flyers.
Saturday I will have a GPT and I will more than likely be running good old G/W. It may get me places or it may bomb (yesterday I went 2-2, mostly due to mana flodding). We will see.
1) No answer to stormbreath is a problem. Flashing skylasher can buy you a turn.....and that's it. That immediately demands a couple of sideboard changes.
2) Skylasher and mistcutter hydra main....is lackluster. With 23 land and no ramp its already hard to cast a hydra that is larger than 4 or 5.....which is already pretty bad taking into consideration wurm / polukranos greatly out class him. Yes, haste is good, but more than often it was overkill.
Im going to hybrid both lists tonight and will come back with a report. I'm not sold on some stuff on lutz list or in struts list either so we will see what becomes of this mish mash.
@Redrius:
If my memory serves me well I remember you were running a list with T1 Elvish mystic. Are you still running it? What is your experience in the current meta? Im thinking of boarding out soldier for a little extra ramp with the mystic. Additionally, Im thinking of messing around with Armada Wurm today, as I find against mono-black and R/G it can be quite a beauty, but I don't think I can get there in time.
I took a look at your list and its certainly interesting. I coukd see some potential problems with control decks, mostly U/W but seems like a reasonable list. What about thoughtseize or duress, how dp you handle that?. I expect your mono black matchup favors you as they cant really 1x1 on removal.
I returned to playing G/W after a hiatus and playing R/W devotion and esper....and it was like make up sex. At the beginning rough, but once you got a hold on top of things
It was saucy!
Gave a spin to andrew shrout's list with some twists on a TNM and went 3-1, my only loss to naya hexproof. Games I lost were mostly due to mana screw and honestly I didnt feel like it was a bad matchup.
Won against B/W/R control, R/G monsters and B/G midrange deck.
All star of the night: Scion of vitu ghazi. Populating advent on turn 5 is gold in many match ups. Pacing is key though.
Dissapointment: ajani. Put in the Sideboard a couple of copies and the leonin dissapointet. At best it was a 1 counter and at worst it was a kill this guy pointer. Sorry kitty, but it may be time to sit this out.
New tech to try: gift of orzhova instead of unflinching courage? Anybody try this? Im curious to try it out.
Cheers guys
1) Sealed gives you the chance of using a 40 card deck instead of using a 60 card deck. Use this opportunity!
2) the case for splashing red is strong, but why would you include the following cards:
* Wild Celebrants
* Deathbellow Raider
* Mnemonic Wall with only 5 cards that can be targeted?
* A bunch of montains to be able to support the above mentioned cards?
3) Im not really sure what you are trying to go for in this deck: Would it be an aggro type strategy putting ordeals on asphodel wonderer and tormented hero or getting to a late game with grey merchant/underworld Cerberus/ prognostic sphinx. It seems to me your deck is kinda all over the place.
4) Missed opportunity:
* Returned Phalanx on a u/b deck. Can help both in aggro mode and in stalling for late game.
Would you be able to post your results? Im very curious to see how you did with said deck.
Spearpoint Oread would be my pick here.
cantripping firebreathing aint bad
I recently also starter playing MTGO online mostly for limited purposes and wouldn't mind joining a clan myself.
Would I PM you my user ID?
I may be AWOL during the holidays but as of right now Im on about 3-4 times a week...sometimes more.
Hell no, WotC get enough money already. Enough.
Id pick demolish or fleshmad steedover this any day.
Note: IRL I think everybody would be taking the downfall though