Since it says a "unique" type of item, I don't think you can actually place two of the same type of objects on it, i.e. not two of the same dice or beads etc.
You can in fact only target one player. The way the stack works is pretty much as your opponent described, but picture it like this: There's a lightning bolt coming at you, and you have a spell to change its course. If you copy your spell, you can change its direction, and then with the copy, you can change it again. You change it twice, sure, but there is still only one lightning bolt, and it only aims at one target.
Also, there's another forum dedicated to rules questions.
Well I for one am fine with the recycling/recurring villains theme. The Phyrexians lost, sure but they came back. Bolas lost, sure, but rest assured he'll pop back as soon as Ugin is eventually killed.
Firstly, recurring villains is an important theme in long-running stories. They ground the power of 'evil' in their respective world, and how it cannot be entirely uprooted. The Praetors are a natural successor to Yawgmoth, just like how Sauron was but one to Morgoth. It extends continuity, and prolongs storytelling around branded and franchise-iconic enemies. In this case, Yawgmoth was defeated; Phyrexia was not. Just like how Morgoth was defeated; his servants, not as much.
Second, if they didn't use this trope, they would eventually run out of good villain ideas. Most possible villain tropes are already over-used and chewed up and spat out at us, and if WotC kept exploring new villain ideas we'd eventually (and pretty soon at that) gripe at the other end, of 'this one is just a rip-off of X, and not as good or compelling as Y'.
Third, a story regarding a Multiverse must have multiverse-impacting villains, so each plane having its own standalone story is not really what magic is about. Plots intertwine and worlds collide, at the whims of the same eternal powers that have been there since the dawn of time. The story is good; the storytelling is... probably severely underpaid.
Fourth, and I do not mean to get political, but this is just a real-life, fact-based parallelism. Look at the real world. The Nazis were defeated, after scarring history, the land, and the human race. Still, less than a century later, fascism is on a global rise. History is bound to repeat itself.
Fifth, as far as what characters get the axe first, drama and George Martin recommend starting with the innocent and impactful ones. With how WotC have made us sick of most characters, or how soon it is for some, they didn't have much choice. I like Tamiyo. I like Phyrexia. I don't like what they did to her but story-wise it is a rational next step. Should it overshadow other plotlines and storylines of favorite planes and worlds? I say that is an invasive species' most inherent trait (also that no one likes it when it happens).
Sorry for the rant! I'm grateful to see so many people well-versed in storytelling and worldbuilding! Cheers!
Wait, anyone else noticed that Tivash, Gloom Summoner looks a lot like Liliana's Raven man? Same hair, goatee, color pattern, even the raven-feather cloak. It's a major (although not main) story character, and could explain why Liliana is here in the first place! And yet they chose to hide him in a commander precon... Am i reading too much into this? Would they leave this here as a hint?
If in a mono-red deck, I control a Stolen Strategy, which happens to exile a converge spell such as Bring to Light; can the "spend mana as thought it were mana of any color" part pay for all 5 colors Bring to Light could potentially allow, or does that clause only allow to pay the spell's required colors, i.e. UGRRR??
So the idea is very much unfinished as of yet, and i'm looking for opinions and suggestions as to how to make this work.
The main concept is very similar to Role playing games, in that there is a Game Master (or GM, or DM) creating a narrative story for the players, but instead of character sheets and dice rolling, the story and player's actions are carried out through MtG.
The purpose is to create lasting stories, which carry effects between games, much like L5R, and to create an immersive narrative like the beautiful world of MtG is supposed to represent, but cannot embody.
Requirements:
- A large collection of cards, that should be expected to be shared and mixed between players.
- A LOT of time on your hands.
- A good grasp of balanced gameplay, as the GM's decks should be balanced to play fairly against the players.
- Players have to keep track of Accumulated Points, which are tracked between and through games.
Rules:
-Card Legality is exclusively defined by the GM
-The format can be played in the Singleton variance, or the 4 copy rule, with the exception of Legendary cards, which can be included only once between the players' and GM's collections.
-The format is played in the Archenemy Round variant, where players take their turns simultaneously.
-Decks can change between games, and cards can be added or removed at the players' choice
-Players' decks must have a "Commander", and follow the Commander Identity rules.
-The GM's decks must have a Commander and follow the Commander Identity rules if they are supposed to represent a Legendary creature of Planeswalker.
If they represent anything else (such as a dungeon, a natural disaster, or a court of law), they are allowed not to have a Commander card, and thus be immune to the Commander Identity rule.
-Player's Starting Life totals and Commander card types vary, according to the Avatar Properties Table (presented below)
-The GM's starting life totals varies with each deck (detailed below)
Mechanics
exclusive to this format are:
Player Avatars - Player Levelling
Cards that reside in the command zone, can be cast as commanders, and represent the players. These would start from very low-power cards, for example common non-legendary creatures, or even creatures that the players themselves would design, in agreement with the GM. These avatars, as the story progresses, and with the players surviving, should receive upgrades in power level, maybe by reaching story milestones, or accumulating in-game EXP through damage dealt, innovative plays, close saves etc. These avatars could even spark into planeswalkers if the GM should will it under conditions such as winning a game while under 3 life, countering or in other ways unexpectedly stopping an effect that would kill them, etc. These should start from one color creatures, and could expand into more colors through gameplay. A blue mage who chooses to run more creatures than instants/sorceries could gain green, a red mage who shows careful restraint might gain blue, a black mage who often blocks for someone else might gain white, etc.
Avatar Leveling Properties LEVEL__________STARTING LIFE_________Card Type
1____________________20____________________Non-legendary creature
2____________________30____________________Non-Legendary creature
3____________________40____________________Non-Legendary creature
4____________________40____________________Creature
5____________________50____________________Creature
6____________________50____________________Creature or Planeswalker
7____________________60____________________Creature or Planeswalker
8____________________70____________________Planeswalker
9____________________70____________________Planeswalker
10___________________80____________________Planeswalker -(Commander Tax is [+1] per time cast)
GM's Starting Life total Commander Type__________Life Total
Non-Legendary Creature_____[Creature's Toughness] x 10
Legendary Creature_________[Players' level equivalent] + 10 per Opponent
Planeswalker_______________10 x Planeswalker Card's Starting Loyalty, + 10 per Opponent
Environment________________Has no Life Total, Alternate win Condition must be set
Loot
When the players defeat an opponent, or win a match, they wan be rewarded with cards from the deck they just beat. Lets say I had my players duel a Varina, Lich Queen commander deck, and they won. Any permanent* owned by the losing deck, that has been left on the battlefield at the moment of victory can be collected by them and from that point on included in their decks. Permanent cards in the losing side's graveyard have been most likely been destroyed in the preceding battle, and cards in hand or in the deck were never cast. Collecting Instants and Sorceries can be achieved through Study Points (to be explained below).
*Planeswalkers and Legendary Creatures are an exception to this rule. They are only eligible for collecting through use of Influence Points(to be explained below), and only if they match color identity with the player's avatars.
Accumulated Values
Players gain benefits while in game, which can be exchanged for bonuses between games. Such active effects are: Study Points - Players get one Study Point whenever they cast an instant or sorcery in the game. These can be spent to "learn" new instants or sorceries. After a game, a player can spend any amount of Study Points to add any instant or sorcery cards from a defeated opponent's graveyard into their collection. The amount of SP spent this way must equal the Total CMC of the cards chosen this way. Gold Points - Players get a Gold Point whenever a nontoken creature they control deals Combat damage to an Opponent. After a game, a player can spend any amount of GP to recover to their collection Lost cards from their own Graveyard. (Lost cards are Permanent cards put into the player's graveyard during the game). The amount of GP spent this way must equal the Total CMC of the cards chosen this way. In addition, if a player has any number of Gold or Treasure Tokens on the battlefield in the Aftermath, they can be converted to GP. Influence Points - A player gets an Influence Point whenever they win a game. Only players who survive the game are considered to win the game. After the game, a player may spend any amount of IP to add to their collection a Legendary creature or Planeswalker Card from the GM's battlefield. This effect can only target one Card per game, and the total amount of IP spent this way must equal the CMC of the card chosen this way, although players can cooperate to collectively use their accumulated IP.
Environments
Battles can be fought in all kinds of places, terrain, and under any effect. Before the game begins, the GM may announce any number of Active Environmental Effects that take place throughout the match. The Specific Rules on this mechanic are as follows:
Such effects must be represented by Land or Enchantment cards.
These cards reside in the command zone along with any possible Commanders the GM's side might have.
Their abilities or active effects are permanently active or can be activated as if they were on the battlefield (this includes mana abilities).
Examples might be a permanent Favorable WInds on the GM's side, or an Honor of the Pure, or and their effects are one sided if they exist only on one side's Command zone.
However; strategic maintaining of location is of paramount importance in battle, and so these effects might change control mid-game, with pre-defined conditions, that may or may not be revealed to the players, such as when the GM's side loses 10 or more life in one turn, is left with no creatures on the board, or even like the Monarch Mechanic.
Alternate Matches
Not all battles are against enemies, and not all conquests are won through violence. One case might find the players trying to outwit a Wizard, parley with a powerful political figure, or claim an ancient artifact from an equally ancient dungeon.
In these examples, and cases like these, an alternative win condition should be fitted to the occasion, and established before the game begins, and before Deck Construction.
Conditions in the given examples might include:
Outwitting the Wizard -- You win the game if the Wizard is at any time left with no cards in hand. A player loses the game if at any time they have no cards in hand. Negotiating Political Victory -- Both sides start with an Azor's Elocutors as an environmental effect. Disabling the artifact -- The players seek to claim a long-lost Paradox Engine from a dungeon. The GM's deck is built with that card as the Active Environmental Effect, and the players win only if the GM's deck has no artifacts on the battlefield, or goes an entire round without casting a spell.
Consequences
This part has many aspects, more than i could analyse here, but let's try and lay out a few:
Story Goal Failure: Lets say the players were sent to outwit the Wizard. But in their attempt they "accidentally" killed the wizard. Then that match is no longer playable, and the story should change appropriately. They do not get the information or knowledge (cards) that would have been given to them to proceed, and they must proceed through different means. Additionally, they might be branded as Outlaws (to be explained below). Losing a game: When a player loses a game, any unspent SP, GP or IP values reset to 0, and all permanent cards they controlled on the battlefield at the time of the game's end, and cards in their graveyard are Removed from their collection, unless another player decides to spend their own GP to recover them. Character Death: If a player loses a game while having zero Influence points, their character dies. They lose all accumulated Points, and work with the GM to create a new one to join the story, with the GM defining the new Player level, and Collection. Becoming an Outlaw: While a player is an outlaw, they cannot spend Gold Points to recover Lost Cards, their Influence Points are reset to zero, and the player cannot gain or use Influence points until they lose the Outlaw status. Conditions for losing the Outlaw status are defined by the GM, and typically should consist of additional games of Parley to represent trials, GP penalties to represent fines, or Player levels lost (and avatars reverted) to represent time served. Exile: A card put in exile is removed from the player's collection and cannot be recovered by use of GP. An exception to this are Planeswalkers, who can be recovered from the Exile by using Influence Points, at any time between games. Death of a Legendary Creature or Planeswalker: A legendary represents a singular being in the world, and thus if a legendary creature or planeswalker dying in battle cannot be rehired, repaired, or re-bought. If a legendary creature or planeswalker is put into a player's graveyard in game, it is removed from their collection after the game unless the player spends an amount of Influence Points equal to that card's CMC. This effect can only be used once per game, but players may cooperate to collectively use their accumulated IP.
So!:) First of all, thanks for reading, I hope you enjoy the idea! Do you think there is room for improvement?
Any suggestion, opinion, idea, or recommendation is more than welcome!
So,now that the set is pretty much out, does anyone have any ideas as to how to make him a commander of a deck other than 5C Good Stuff?
The lore nerd in me wants to build a 5C Historic Matters deck, with Jhoira, Raff, and Teshar as key cards. But that leads to Legendary creature "tribal", which is pretty much good stuff all over again.
Then I thought about a 5c group-hug deck, but there's so many options I just don't know where to begin...
Does anyone have any creative and fun takes on this?
The cloud was only one of many forms, as is the phyrexian Arena. But like all shape-shifters, he must have a core, base form that he shifts FROM. That is what the fandom has been asking for, and the cloud was definitely not that. There is no confirmation of whether this one is it or not, but hey, we're one picture closer. And it is rather peculiar that they would create such a likeness to the old InQuest art. It might be nothing but tribute, but it certainly gives that old art more credibility.
Besides being a cheap, sucking-up-to-celebrity-and-pop-culture move on hasbro's part, this is defiling worse than anything phyrexia has ever done...
For what it does to the game, I could not love it more.
I think you mean "Stars of Mirrodin"
I know they're not related to the plane, but if ever there was to be an MTG talent show, no other name would be suffice.
mythologyreligion? Arabian nights?Also, there's another forum dedicated to rules questions.
Firstly, recurring villains is an important theme in long-running stories. They ground the power of 'evil' in their respective world, and how it cannot be entirely uprooted. The Praetors are a natural successor to Yawgmoth, just like how Sauron was but one to Morgoth. It extends continuity, and prolongs storytelling around branded and franchise-iconic enemies. In this case, Yawgmoth was defeated; Phyrexia was not. Just like how Morgoth was defeated; his servants, not as much.
Second, if they didn't use this trope, they would eventually run out of good villain ideas. Most possible villain tropes are already over-used and chewed up and spat out at us, and if WotC kept exploring new villain ideas we'd eventually (and pretty soon at that) gripe at the other end, of 'this one is just a rip-off of X, and not as good or compelling as Y'.
Third, a story regarding a Multiverse must have multiverse-impacting villains, so each plane having its own standalone story is not really what magic is about. Plots intertwine and worlds collide, at the whims of the same eternal powers that have been there since the dawn of time. The story is good; the storytelling is... probably severely underpaid.
Fourth, and I do not mean to get political, but this is just a real-life, fact-based parallelism. Look at the real world. The Nazis were defeated, after scarring history, the land, and the human race. Still, less than a century later, fascism is on a global rise. History is bound to repeat itself.
Fifth, as far as what characters get the axe first, drama and George Martin recommend starting with the innocent and impactful ones. With how WotC have made us sick of most characters, or how soon it is for some, they didn't have much choice. I like Tamiyo. I like Phyrexia. I don't like what they did to her but story-wise it is a rational next step. Should it overshadow other plotlines and storylines of favorite planes and worlds? I say that is an invasive species' most inherent trait (also that no one likes it when it happens).
Sorry for the rant! I'm grateful to see so many people well-versed in storytelling and worldbuilding! Cheers!
Do the creatures you stole regain Decayed after Dress Down leaves the battlefield?
In essence can I tutor for a 5c card or 3c?
Thanks in advance!
So the idea is very much unfinished as of yet, and i'm looking for opinions and suggestions as to how to make this work.
The main concept is very similar to Role playing games, in that there is a Game Master (or GM, or DM) creating a narrative story for the players, but instead of character sheets and dice rolling, the story and player's actions are carried out through MtG.
The purpose is to create lasting stories, which carry effects between games, much like L5R, and to create an immersive narrative like the beautiful world of MtG is supposed to represent, but cannot embody.
- A LOT of time on your hands.
- A good grasp of balanced gameplay, as the GM's decks should be balanced to play fairly against the players.
- Players have to keep track of Accumulated Points, which are tracked between and through games.
-The format can be played in the Singleton variance, or the 4 copy rule, with the exception of Legendary cards, which can be included only once between the players' and GM's collections.
-The format is played in the Archenemy Round variant, where players take their turns simultaneously.
-Decks can change between games, and cards can be added or removed at the players' choice
-Players' decks must have a "Commander", and follow the Commander Identity rules.
-The GM's decks must have a Commander and follow the Commander Identity rules if they are supposed to represent a Legendary creature of Planeswalker.
If they represent anything else (such as a dungeon, a natural disaster, or a court of law), they are allowed not to have a Commander card, and thus be immune to the Commander Identity rule.
-Player's Starting Life totals and Commander card types vary, according to the Avatar Properties Table (presented below)
-The GM's starting life totals varies with each deck (detailed below)
exclusive to this format are:
Player Avatars - Player Levelling
Cards that reside in the command zone, can be cast as commanders, and represent the players. These would start from very low-power cards, for example common non-legendary creatures, or even creatures that the players themselves would design, in agreement with the GM. These avatars, as the story progresses, and with the players surviving, should receive upgrades in power level, maybe by reaching story milestones, or accumulating in-game EXP through damage dealt, innovative plays, close saves etc. These avatars could even spark into planeswalkers if the GM should will it under conditions such as winning a game while under 3 life, countering or in other ways unexpectedly stopping an effect that would kill them, etc. These should start from one color creatures, and could expand into more colors through gameplay. A blue mage who chooses to run more creatures than instants/sorceries could gain green, a red mage who shows careful restraint might gain blue, a black mage who often blocks for someone else might gain white, etc.
Avatar Leveling Properties
LEVEL__________STARTING LIFE_________Card Type
1____________________20____________________Non-legendary creature
2____________________30____________________Non-Legendary creature
3____________________40____________________Non-Legendary creature
4____________________40____________________Creature
5____________________50____________________Creature
6____________________50____________________Creature or Planeswalker
7____________________60____________________Creature or Planeswalker
8____________________70____________________Planeswalker
9____________________70____________________Planeswalker
10___________________80____________________Planeswalker -(Commander Tax is [+1] per time cast)
GM's Starting Life total
Commander Type__________Life Total
Non-Legendary Creature_____[Creature's Toughness] x 10
Legendary Creature_________[Players' level equivalent] + 10 per Opponent
Planeswalker_______________10 x Planeswalker Card's Starting Loyalty, + 10 per Opponent
Environment________________Has no Life Total, Alternate win Condition must be set
Loot
When the players defeat an opponent, or win a match, they wan be rewarded with cards from the deck they just beat. Lets say I had my players duel a Varina, Lich Queen commander deck, and they won. Any permanent* owned by the losing deck, that has been left on the battlefield at the moment of victory can be collected by them and from that point on included in their decks. Permanent cards in the losing side's graveyard have been most likely been destroyed in the preceding battle, and cards in hand or in the deck were never cast. Collecting Instants and Sorceries can be achieved through Study Points (to be explained below).
*Planeswalkers and Legendary Creatures are an exception to this rule. They are only eligible for collecting through use of Influence Points(to be explained below), and only if they match color identity with the player's avatars.
Accumulated Values
Players gain benefits while in game, which can be exchanged for bonuses between games. Such active effects are:
Study Points - Players get one Study Point whenever they cast an instant or sorcery in the game. These can be spent to "learn" new instants or sorceries. After a game, a player can spend any amount of Study Points to add any instant or sorcery cards from a defeated opponent's graveyard into their collection. The amount of SP spent this way must equal the Total CMC of the cards chosen this way.
Gold Points - Players get a Gold Point whenever a nontoken creature they control deals Combat damage to an Opponent. After a game, a player can spend any amount of GP to recover to their collection Lost cards from their own Graveyard. (Lost cards are Permanent cards put into the player's graveyard during the game). The amount of GP spent this way must equal the Total CMC of the cards chosen this way. In addition, if a player has any number of Gold or Treasure Tokens on the battlefield in the Aftermath, they can be converted to GP.
Influence Points - A player gets an Influence Point whenever they win a game. Only players who survive the game are considered to win the game. After the game, a player may spend any amount of IP to add to their collection a Legendary creature or Planeswalker Card from the GM's battlefield. This effect can only target one Card per game, and the total amount of IP spent this way must equal the CMC of the card chosen this way, although players can cooperate to collectively use their accumulated IP.
Environments
Battles can be fought in all kinds of places, terrain, and under any effect. Before the game begins, the GM may announce any number of Active Environmental Effects that take place throughout the match. The Specific Rules on this mechanic are as follows:
Such effects must be represented by Land or Enchantment cards.
These cards reside in the command zone along with any possible Commanders the GM's side might have.
Their abilities or active effects are permanently active or can be activated as if they were on the battlefield (this includes mana abilities).
Examples might be a permanent Favorable WInds on the GM's side, or an Honor of the Pure, or and their effects are one sided if they exist only on one side's Command zone.
However; strategic maintaining of location is of paramount importance in battle, and so these effects might change control mid-game, with pre-defined conditions, that may or may not be revealed to the players, such as when the GM's side loses 10 or more life in one turn, is left with no creatures on the board, or even like the Monarch Mechanic.
Alternate Matches
Not all battles are against enemies, and not all conquests are won through violence. One case might find the players trying to outwit a Wizard, parley with a powerful political figure, or claim an ancient artifact from an equally ancient dungeon.
In these examples, and cases like these, an alternative win condition should be fitted to the occasion, and established before the game begins, and before Deck Construction.
Conditions in the given examples might include:
Outwitting the Wizard -- You win the game if the Wizard is at any time left with no cards in hand. A player loses the game if at any time they have no cards in hand.
Negotiating Political Victory -- Both sides start with an Azor's Elocutors as an environmental effect.
Disabling the artifact -- The players seek to claim a long-lost Paradox Engine from a dungeon. The GM's deck is built with that card as the Active Environmental Effect, and the players win only if the GM's deck has no artifacts on the battlefield, or goes an entire round without casting a spell.
Consequences
This part has many aspects, more than i could analyse here, but let's try and lay out a few:
Story Goal Failure: Lets say the players were sent to outwit the Wizard. But in their attempt they "accidentally" killed the wizard. Then that match is no longer playable, and the story should change appropriately. They do not get the information or knowledge (cards) that would have been given to them to proceed, and they must proceed through different means. Additionally, they might be branded as Outlaws (to be explained below).
Losing a game: When a player loses a game, any unspent SP, GP or IP values reset to 0, and all permanent cards they controlled on the battlefield at the time of the game's end, and cards in their graveyard are Removed from their collection, unless another player decides to spend their own GP to recover them.
Character Death: If a player loses a game while having zero Influence points, their character dies. They lose all accumulated Points, and work with the GM to create a new one to join the story, with the GM defining the new Player level, and Collection.
Becoming an Outlaw: While a player is an outlaw, they cannot spend Gold Points to recover Lost Cards, their Influence Points are reset to zero, and the player cannot gain or use Influence points until they lose the Outlaw status. Conditions for losing the Outlaw status are defined by the GM, and typically should consist of additional games of Parley to represent trials, GP penalties to represent fines, or Player levels lost (and avatars reverted) to represent time served.
Exile: A card put in exile is removed from the player's collection and cannot be recovered by use of GP. An exception to this are Planeswalkers, who can be recovered from the Exile by using Influence Points, at any time between games.
Death of a Legendary Creature or Planeswalker: A legendary represents a singular being in the world, and thus if a legendary creature or planeswalker dying in battle cannot be rehired, repaired, or re-bought. If a legendary creature or planeswalker is put into a player's graveyard in game, it is removed from their collection after the game unless the player spends an amount of Influence Points equal to that card's CMC. This effect can only be used once per game, but players may cooperate to collectively use their accumulated IP.
So!:) First of all, thanks for reading, I hope you enjoy the idea! Do you think there is room for improvement?
Any suggestion, opinion, idea, or recommendation is more than welcome!
The lore nerd in me wants to build a 5C Historic Matters deck, with Jhoira, Raff, and Teshar as key cards. But that leads to Legendary creature "tribal", which is pretty much good stuff all over again.
Then I thought about a 5c group-hug deck, but there's so many options I just don't know where to begin...
Does anyone have any creative and fun takes on this?