As I said before, this card will be cube dependent. I have no doubt in my mind that this card will see a lot of play in my cube, but that's because my cube probably takes advantage of this card more than most others for several reasons:
- I heavily support reanimator / Recurring Nightmare.
To be fair, mono black doesn't have that many great self discard effects. After entomb, looting effects are the best to set up reanimation and that is best done by blue and red.
After Entomb, the best outlet is Unmarked Grave by far. Could make an argument for this being #3, but it sacrifices speed guaranteed accuracy.
Buried alive was not a good card many many years ago when I tested it in anything but living death.
Going back to this, yes Buried Alive has never been great, but it has appreciated a lot in value over time. A lot of the best super fatties have been printed in the past couple of years (Atraxa / Archon of Cruelty / Etali / Astral Dragon / etc), we've gotten a new reanimation spell in Persist, and Shallow Grave has appreciated so much in value due to said new super fatties and better discard outlets over time.
The raw consistency of entomb effects (A+B vs A+B+C) outweigh the advantages of looting, but not to a degree where you can dismiss the relative mana efficiency and speed of the spells.
The efficiency doesn't matter when the outcome is the same as what a discard outlet would normally result in: your premium super fattie on turn 4 that makes up for any tempo losses in the previous turns.
This card bears a strong resemblance to Smuggler's Surprise. paying 3 mana for a sorcery speed entomb is just rough, even for decks that can leverage it.
This curves out your super fatties than something like Sneak Attack and will be more consistent than a discard outlet. What matters is that you get your creature on turn 4.
- I'm seeing more 3c decks, especially ones playing Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker struggling with hitting the correct mana.
Aether Vial probably won't solve any of these problems. This might stem from any combination of your cube not having mana fixing, players not prioritizing mana fixing enough, or cramming too many different pips in a single deck. Most Kiki combos are confined to two colors anyways, so it's not like they HAVE to be greedy in order to pull of the combo.
AEther Vial is one of those cards that is much stronger when A.) it's played in multiples and B.) it's built very specfically around. I wouldn't play it unless my cube wasn't singleton.
This will probably always ring true. AEther Vial is not meant for a singleton formats with fairly wide curves, IMO. AEther Vial is one of the most classic "just because it's good in constructed doesn't mean it'll be good in cube" cards.
Buried alive was not a good card many many years ago when I tested it in anything but living death.
The issue with Buried Alive is more justifying its slot in the cube than it is justifying it in a reanimator deck, IMO. And this has much more legs to stand on if you have a Sheoldred back up plan or something.
yes entomb is the best enabler by a lot for reanimator, but tacking on 2 mana and making it sorcery speed is a totally different card in terms of quality.
again, I’m not arguing against the card in general, only the statement about it auto making reanimator decks.
Here's my logic to this being an auto include in any reanimator deck:
- Again, a turn 4 Atraxa / Archon of Cruelty / etc is much better than any other creature / planeswalker / etc that you can play on curve.
- This being a tutor ensures you get the best possible target for any given scenario you're in (unless it's already in your hand).
- Entomb effects >>> discard outlets because it simplifies the combo down to two cards. If this isn't an auto include in a reanimator deck, then what mono black discard outlet is? This advances the gameplan of a reanimator deck much better than Bitter Triumph / Liliana of the Veil / Oona's Prowler / etc.
Honestly the only scenario I can see this not making the main of a reanimator deck is if you're a Reanimator / Oath of Druids hybrid and you already have Entomb / Unmarked Grave / Demonic Tutor / Vampiric Tutor / etc. In that scenario, sure this can probably ride the sideboard.
I don't believe a 3 mana sorcery speed entomb is a good card in reanimator, such that this card auto makes any reanimator deck.
Atraxa / Archon of Cruelty / etc are better on turn 4 than any other 4-cmc creature you can play on curve. And this is much more consistent than any 1-2 cmc discard outlet since it's an actual tutor, finds your actual best target, and reduces the combo from an A + B + C combo to an A + B combo. I find it extremely difficult to justify this not making the main deck of any reanimator / Recurring Nightmare deck when Entomb is literally the most important card to that strategy.
I probably wouldn't be in the market for a standalone 3-cmc Entomb since Buried Alive alredy exists, but this has much more applications than that.
Looks like a great card for grindy matchups. But as far as Black 4s with powerful ETBs go, I would prefer Ravenous Chupacabra in more circumstances for the immediate board impact. The discard punishing/synergy is a nice touch, but it isn't as exciting on a 3 toughness 4-drop.
I'd much rather have this than Chupacabra, which I've found too low impact over the past couple of years. This has a bigger body, cleaner mana cost, more immediate / potential value, doesn't rely on my opponent having a creature, more synergies it enables (discard matters / artifact critical mass / etc).
This is much better than Finale of Devastation since it's more mana efficient and is more versatile since this can go into more decks. I'm okay paying an extra mana for Palace Jailer / Sheoldred / any initiative enabler, but was never okay paying 4GG for them with Finale of Devastation. Not to mention that this has modes at 3 and 4 mana too. The Entomb effect alone will make the main deck of any reanimator / Recurring Nightmare deck.
The three natural homes for this card will be the following:
The last bullet especially covers a good amount of ground, not to mention a good amount of creature based combo decks this can sneak into, like draw 7 / persist / etc. If anything, this card should be compared to Bring to Light more than Finale of Devastation. I like this spree card much more than any other spree card in my cube.
I'm surprised you rate Duelist of the Mind so high. I thought the card is good, but outside draw 7 decks it doesn't hit that hard, and regardless of deck it isn't spectacular on defense, which kinda sucks when some of its best synergies cost you life (Sylvan Library) or need you to protect them (Jace, the Mind Sculptor). Also surprised by Sandstorm Salvager being so far down the list, that was one of the headliners for me this set.
It's not hard to trigger Duelist of the Mind off normal cantrips or its crime trigger. Its value goes up substantially in a cube that heavily supports draw 7s and monarch / initiative. I think its average case scenario will be far above most 2-cmc creatures, especially given its insane ceiling. Also, you don't have to pay life for Sylvan Library to draw more cards, you pay life to keep them.
Sandstorm Salvager is pretty much where I'd put Blade Splicer today. And I'd argue that Blade Splicer is better in white than Salvager is in green due to its blink synergies.
if I want manlands in my cube they’ll be the cycle of “fast” mono-color manlands from AFR.
Yeah this is what I've been doing. I'm currently only playing 5 of the guild manlands (Tarpit / Anchorage / Colonnade / Ravine / Vinestalk).
- Tarpit / Anchorage are in for the long haul.
- Colonnade will eventually be replaced by the UW Horizon Canopy. Can live on through Cave of the Frost Dragon.
- I have a soft spot for Raging Ravine, so it might stick around for a while. If not, it'll at least live on through Den of the Bugbear.
- Same scenario for as Raging Raine for Vinestalk, but less likely to stick around. That one can live on as Lair of the Hydra.
Quote from Goodking »
Man, I like most of even the mid-tier manlands better than the Surveil lands. I have enough searchable lands and I think activating creatures from amidst my lands will win me more games than a one-off Surveil. And they are just more interesting gameplay wise, subjectively. If I were to go to another land 'cycle' I'd be focusing on a mix of these and Canopylands I think.
I generally like surveil duals more than all but the premium manlands. The manlands are definitely more interesting, but the surveil duals play much better. Like triomes, being fetchable really helps with the ETB tapped clause. not to mention that Surveil duals help enable Worldgorger Dragon combo.
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This is a good card in creature-based combo decks, but I think it falls short as a generic goodstuff card, monarch/initiative support or not.
This will be cube dependent. Combined with 4-cmc creatures from other colors (particularly initiative enablers / Palace Jailer), it's not going to be hard for most BX creature based midraneg dceks to comfortably play this. In my cube, black has the best top 5 starting line up of 4-cmc creatures:
- Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
- Passageway Seer
- Ravenloft Adventurer
- Rankle, Master of Pranks
- Grief
- Hostile Investigator (6th man that hasn't been added yet)
Black has the most initiative enablers, and the fact that this can recur an initiative enabler and bin From the Catacombs (which is black's best 5-cmc spell IMO as it's a Recurring Nightmare / Bribery hybrid that's recurrable and an initiative enabler), it's not too hard to set up double / triple initiative trigger set ups to close out the game. Not to mention that this will naturally slot into any Reanimator / Recurring Nightmare deck with ease since a bad Entomb effect is still better than most discard outlets.
The 5mv option is good but I'm not so sure how often it'll be played.
Unlike other spree cards, I think this is going to be primarily played with both modes combined. I think it's best to think of this as a modal Custdoi Lich.
- I heavily support reanimator / Recurring Nightmare.
- I support Worldgorger Dragon / Abdel Adrian, Gorion's Ward combo.
- I play a lot of 4-cmc creatures (especially in black).
- I heavily support initiative, and most initiative enablers just so happen to cost 4 mana.
- I play arguably the best non-creature spell you can recur with this (From the Catacombs).
- I play a lot of other creature combos that often combines with reanimator like Thassa's Oracle / Draw 7 + Hullbreacher and friends
After Entomb, the best outlet is Unmarked Grave by far. Could make an argument for this being #3, but it sacrifices speed guaranteed accuracy.
Going back to this, yes Buried Alive has never been great, but it has appreciated a lot in value over time. A lot of the best super fatties have been printed in the past couple of years (Atraxa / Archon of Cruelty / Etali / Astral Dragon / etc), we've gotten a new reanimation spell in Persist, and Shallow Grave has appreciated so much in value due to said new super fatties and better discard outlets over time.
The efficiency doesn't matter when the outcome is the same as what a discard outlet would normally result in: your premium super fattie on turn 4 that makes up for any tempo losses in the previous turns.
Looting doesn't you a turn 4 reanimation either, or anything for the matter of fact. This at least guarantees you 50% of the combo.
This curves out your super fatties than something like Sneak Attack and will be more consistent than a discard outlet. What matters is that you get your creature on turn 4.
Aether Vial probably won't solve any of these problems. This might stem from any combination of your cube not having mana fixing, players not prioritizing mana fixing enough, or cramming too many different pips in a single deck. Most Kiki combos are confined to two colors anyways, so it's not like they HAVE to be greedy in order to pull of the combo.
This will probably always ring true. AEther Vial is not meant for a singleton formats with fairly wide curves, IMO. AEther Vial is one of the most classic "just because it's good in constructed doesn't mean it'll be good in cube" cards.
The issue with Buried Alive is more justifying its slot in the cube than it is justifying it in a reanimator deck, IMO. And this has much more legs to stand on if you have a Sheoldred back up plan or something.
Here's my logic to this being an auto include in any reanimator deck:
- Again, a turn 4 Atraxa / Archon of Cruelty / etc is much better than any other creature / planeswalker / etc that you can play on curve.
- This being a tutor ensures you get the best possible target for any given scenario you're in (unless it's already in your hand).
- Entomb effects >>> discard outlets because it simplifies the combo down to two cards. If this isn't an auto include in a reanimator deck, then what mono black discard outlet is? This advances the gameplan of a reanimator deck much better than Bitter Triumph / Liliana of the Veil / Oona's Prowler / etc.
Honestly the only scenario I can see this not making the main of a reanimator deck is if you're a Reanimator / Oath of Druids hybrid and you already have Entomb / Unmarked Grave / Demonic Tutor / Vampiric Tutor / etc. In that scenario, sure this can probably ride the sideboard.
Atraxa / Archon of Cruelty / etc are better on turn 4 than any other 4-cmc creature you can play on curve. And this is much more consistent than any 1-2 cmc discard outlet since it's an actual tutor, finds your actual best target, and reduces the combo from an A + B + C combo to an A + B combo. I find it extremely difficult to justify this not making the main deck of any reanimator / Recurring Nightmare deck when Entomb is literally the most important card to that strategy.
I probably wouldn't be in the market for a standalone 3-cmc Entomb since Buried Alive alredy exists, but this has much more applications than that.
I'd much rather have this than Chupacabra, which I've found too low impact over the past couple of years. This has a bigger body, cleaner mana cost, more immediate / potential value, doesn't rely on my opponent having a creature, more synergies it enables (discard matters / artifact critical mass / etc).
This is much better than Finale of Devastation since it's more mana efficient and is more versatile since this can go into more decks. I'm okay paying an extra mana for Palace Jailer / Sheoldred / any initiative enabler, but was never okay paying 4GG for them with Finale of Devastation. Not to mention that this has modes at 3 and 4 mana too. The Entomb effect alone will make the main deck of any reanimator / Recurring Nightmare deck.
The three natural homes for this card will be the following:
- Reanimator
- Recurring Nightmare
- Midrange decks with premium 4 drops
The last bullet especially covers a good amount of ground, not to mention a good amount of creature based combo decks this can sneak into, like draw 7 / persist / etc. If anything, this card should be compared to Bring to Light more than Finale of Devastation. I like this spree card much more than any other spree card in my cube.
It's not hard to trigger Duelist of the Mind off normal cantrips or its crime trigger. Its value goes up substantially in a cube that heavily supports draw 7s and monarch / initiative. I think its average case scenario will be far above most 2-cmc creatures, especially given its insane ceiling. Also, you don't have to pay life for Sylvan Library to draw more cards, you pay life to keep them.
Sandstorm Salvager is pretty much where I'd put Blade Splicer today. And I'd argue that Blade Splicer is better in white than Salvager is in green due to its blink synergies.
Yeah this is what I've been doing. I'm currently only playing 5 of the guild manlands (Tarpit / Anchorage / Colonnade / Ravine / Vinestalk).
- Tarpit / Anchorage are in for the long haul.
- Colonnade will eventually be replaced by the UW Horizon Canopy. Can live on through Cave of the Frost Dragon.
- I have a soft spot for Raging Ravine, so it might stick around for a while. If not, it'll at least live on through Den of the Bugbear.
- Same scenario for as Raging Raine for Vinestalk, but less likely to stick around. That one can live on as Lair of the Hydra.
I generally like surveil duals more than all but the premium manlands. The manlands are definitely more interesting, but the surveil duals play much better. Like triomes, being fetchable really helps with the ETB tapped clause. not to mention that Surveil duals help enable Worldgorger Dragon combo.
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This will be cube dependent. Combined with 4-cmc creatures from other colors (particularly initiative enablers / Palace Jailer), it's not going to be hard for most BX creature based midraneg dceks to comfortably play this. In my cube, black has the best top 5 starting line up of 4-cmc creatures:
- Sheoldred, the Apocalypse
- Passageway Seer
- Ravenloft Adventurer
- Rankle, Master of Pranks
- Grief
- Hostile Investigator (6th man that hasn't been added yet)
Black has the most initiative enablers, and the fact that this can recur an initiative enabler and bin From the Catacombs (which is black's best 5-cmc spell IMO as it's a Recurring Nightmare / Bribery hybrid that's recurrable and an initiative enabler), it's not too hard to set up double / triple initiative trigger set ups to close out the game. Not to mention that this will naturally slot into any Reanimator / Recurring Nightmare deck with ease since a bad Entomb effect is still better than most discard outlets.
Unmarked Grave is cheaper, this costs 2B for the Entomb effect.
Unlike other spree cards, I think this is going to be primarily played with both modes combined. I think it's best to think of this as a modal Custdoi Lich.
I think this is going to be solid in any monarch / initiative based midrange deck. This also helps set up other creature based combos like persist.