Have you considered Supreme Will? It is a relatively new card. People are still testing it. Some like it, some don't. Some think it should replaces Worldly, some think it should replace Izzet Charm. You should probably tinker with the card at some point too to form an opinion.
Grixis Shadow matchup is pretty even, but I'm using the white version which is definitely better against Grixis DS. Path means that turn 2 delve fattie isn't much of a problem, and Chameleon Colossus and Rip in the sideboard are great. RiP even stops Surgical Extraction.
Yeah, looking at your list, you are indeed armed to the teeth for that matchup!
I'm wondering, why aren;t people playing Primeval Titan in the board or main?
Apparently people are! Cf post #4452 and #4454.
In BTL however, we generally don't want to fetch for Mountains early because we want to be able to kill on 7 lands and this requires having 6/10 mountains left in our deck.
Prime Time on the other hand requires you to have at least 4 mountains when he comes down, so that you get a return on investment when he finally attacks.
In that sense, he's kind of a nombo with the main plan, which is to scapeshift on 7 lands.
Seems totally reasonable Fire197. This resembles a lot a list that top 16ed a recent GP.
There are however 3 things that bug me with this list:
(1) Do you really need Damnation AND Anger main? I don't believe so and looking at lists on mtgtop8, we see that the consensus is that Damnation should be maindeck with Anger in the side. This is because the metagame is not populated by lots of fast aggro decks at the moment.
(2) The mana in this deck is very tight. As sweet as it is to loot vs control decks, I don't think we can afford to have Loothouse as our 26th land. Plus, we already have a good matchup VS UW (the premier control deck).
(3) What is this sideboard spellskite for? Grixis Death's Shadow is a top 3 deck that we suck against. I would probably look to put a bullet for that matchup in that spot. Something like Chameleon Colossus perhaps.
Very interesting. It's the first time I see a list with Sleigh of hand but it is an interesting alternative to Serum Visions and the shuffling problem. Are you confident this is the best build of RUG for the MTGO metagame? If not, what would you consider changing?
Anybody play Bring to Scapeshift now? Is important the experience with the deck, is better with black or white?, RG Scapeshift or Scapeshift blue?,I always win with Scapeshift blue vs RG Scapeshift or vs Throught the breach.
Why this deck don't play more than RG Scapeshift?
I do.
There is a learning curve with the deck. It mostly has to do with lands, but also sideboarding can be tricky. I remember when I started playing, I could not win a match against Jund.
I don't think there is a big difference between black or white. White gives you Timely Reinforcements, which was great a while ago when there was a lot of Burn, Naya Zoo and 8-whack. Black gives you the bullet of Slaughter Games, which can be important if Ad Nauseam and the mirror are popular, etc.
It is true that RG Titanshift is one of if not the best matchup for BTL, but that doesn't mean BTL is "better" than RG. I personally never sleeved up RG because this style does not appeal to me, but on paper we can see that the deck has more redundancy than BTL in its win conditions. This makes it not as weak to a Thoughtseize for instance. The fact that virtually no one plays BTL at competitive event while RG is one of the top 3 most popular decks is a testament to the general opinion that RG is the superior deck, and they are probably right unfortunately.
Yea it's an easy mistake to make. You think "I don't have a use for this many lands, I might as well try to take this guy off of black.", but the extra colorless land turns out to be relevant a surprising number of times vs what wasting actually accomplishes.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question but your answer is so technical that I'm not even sure if you're saying I'm right or wrong.
I guess I'm wrong cuz you didn't adress the other scenarios I mention. If so then are you suggesting that I can just go about my buisness and 5 turns later go "by the way, I have 2 counters on this Jitte. Kill your guy." (Assuming no game action requiring me to acknowledge the presence of counters on the Jitte occured.)??
Hi everyone, I just want to run some scenarios by you to make sure I understand what constitutes a missed trigger.
So, I know that for instance if Allen attack with Noble Hierarch, passes priority, and his opponent declines to block, then Allen can say "take 1" and this is not considered a missed trigger.
The rule of thumb being "Allen can neglect any mention of the Exalted trigger until it becomes relevant that this trigger did go on the stack and resolved."
Of course, with triggers that target, you need to point them out as they go on the stack, otherwise, they are missed.
What about counters? If I attack with a creature wielding an Umezawa's Jitte and this creature deals combat damage. I don't have to explicitely say that the Jitte triggers in the "Damage Step", but I can say "move to end of combat?" and if opponent passe priority, then I can put the counters on the Jitte before we enter the "end of combat" phase. On the other hand, if I say "move to second main phase?" and opponent agrees, then I will have missed the Jitte trigger.
In the absence of Chalice, the mana denial plan with Stifle is interresting. I am off of Wasteland entirely at the moment but I remember when I was playing 2 (as an out to Glacial Chasm and what not), I always regretted the times when I used Wasteland as a mean to mana screw my opponent because it usually ended up screwing me more than my opponent.
For instance: make land drop #4, waste their dual or whatever, then they waste my Cavern/Mutavault and I all of a sudden I can't cast this topdecked TNN/Clique.
Between this kind of scenario and the fact that we sometimes want to hardcast Force and Silvergils, I found Wasteland very underwhelming in our deck.
But that being said, I always wondered if a more dedicated mana denial build could work. So yea, I'm definitely interested in reading more reports from you DickWatson.
Also, have you considered playing some Warping Wails in your 75? They are great at killing Deathrite Shamans among other things.
Did your results make you consider making any changes to the 75?
I still like the idea of the 75, but I definitely need more practice with the deck, and especially against more archetypes to make any kind of informed conclusion.
It's gonna take time since I don't play a lot (I have 2 young kids) but I'll report back eventually. I did explode another BR Reanimator last night on XMage though
I think a recent booster is 4$ CAD so 40 points should be 16$ CAD if you're going with this linear conversion scheme, but obviously the tournament organizers value boosters less than Thought-knot Seers (which goes for 10$ CAD).
The TO was Game Keeper, which is a store I actively try to avoid. I did enjoy the high level of competition at the event though, so I'm glad I went.
Dear Merfolk forum, let me tell you all about how I bought a 40$ Thought-Knot Seer today!
Mostly thought I want to get your thoughts on this bizzarre sideboard that I decided to try out. The list that I registered at the 40$ GP side-event is
This idea for 4 Needles in the board came about when I was trying to make a sideboard to reliably deal with Marit Lage. I also wanted something faster than Relic to handle the hyper fast grave-based combo decks like BR Reanimator but more versatile than Faerie Macabre. I think Cage is the most powerful option and I think we need at least 4 grave hate to reliably beat these decks. Without Relic to handle the green creatures, I added 4 Tidebinder.
I didn't get much testing done before the event, playing mostly against combo decks on XMage but I beat them all while still beating the fair blue decks, which is a good sign since this is what this SB is designed to do.
One thing is certain though; I don't think I've ever had a SB that had a better shot against Elves! I'm anxious to test the matchup and see if 4 Cage, 4 Needle, 4 Tidebinder, 4 Chalice is enough! The SB plan I envision is +4 Cage, +4 Tidebinder Mage, +4 Needle, +1 Swan Song, -4 Vial, -4 CC, -3 Daze, -2 Phantasmal Image.
Flooding the board with Needles also sounds interesting against D&T.
I also wanted to give Daze a shot as more than a 1-of. It was really poor against Miracles so perhaps it is better now. Additionally, with 4 Tidebinder Mages, Daze gets theoretically better against the DRS decks.
The tournament report:
I took some notes about the matches I played:
M1: 4c Delver, win roll (2-1)
G1: I keep a hand with Island, Cavern, Chalice, x,x,x,x. My T2 Chalice gets Forced and my Cavern gets wasted. I never drew another land.
SB: -4 Force, +1 Echoing Truth, +3 Tidebinder
G2: He has the T1 Delver but Chalice resolves. T3 TNN and T4 double lord is met with Deluge, but I have TNN + Lord backup to end the game 2 attack steps later.
SB: +4 Force (stupid Deluge), -2 Daze, -2 Tidebinder
G3 again sees Chalice on 1 resolves but I don't have much else going on so I a Force a Young Pyro. Another one hits the table and my opponent starts firing 1 drops into Chalice to make tokens and is able to get me down to 9 with the tokens while I only draw lands and x/1's. Fortuitously, I find Echoing Truth to wipe the tokens and get on the beatdown plan. Opponent takes the trade of Young Pyro for Silvergil and finds an Angler. I counter with a TNN and a Lord (at last!) which somehow doesn't get decayed and I win.
M2: Pox, loose roll (0-2)
G1: I mull to 6. Very close game. I spare you the details but I ended up at 2 life with 2 Silvergils vs him at 6 life with a Bloodghast (can't block) and a summoning sick DRS (treatening to win the game next turn). With a Vial on 2, I swing with the 2 Silvergils. He realizes that if I topdecked a lord and he doesn't block, then I win. He thinks a lot, picks up my grave, counts 3 Lords. 'No blocks' :(. At least I made him sweat by activating Vial before scooping.
G2: I get rolled, basically. I mull to 6, he plays Thoughtseize into DRS and I choose to name Liliana of the Veil with my Needle because (a) I have 2 other Needles and 4 Tidebinders in the deck to deal with DRS (b) DRS is not too scary right now while Liliana next turn ends the game on the spot. I still think this is correct but my opponent thinks I should have named DRS.
M3: Food Chain, loose roll (1-2)
G1: He makes a T1 DRS and cantrips twice before my T2 Chalice resolves. He then Manipulate Fate and I Clique his draw step hoping to snag a Food Chain. Instead I see Manipulate Fate, Griffin, DRS, land, land. I let him keep it. On his next turn, I Force a Sylvan Library (I think pitching TNN) because having islandwalk is going to be key in wining this game and I don't want him to start drawing Decays and stuff. He ended up drawing Force, Force, Force and countering every one of my lords while making a 3/3 flyer every turn.
SB: -1 Jitte, -4 Chalice, +1 Echoing Truth, +1 Swan Song, +3 Tidebinder. IDK if this is correct. I think Chalice > Tidebinder here.
G2: I have a very fast hand where I get him to 6 on T4 with a board of CC + 2x Lord + 2x Muta so even his Deluge can't save him.
G3: I keep a hand of Cavern, Vial, Vial, E Truth, Clique, TNN, CC. He fires a T2 Hymn which nabs E Truth + Clique. T3 he has EE to clean up my Vials (and I even think it a good idea to Vial in my CC in response to EE activation! ?!?) I miss a couple land drops and Griffins end up burrying me.
M4: UB Reanimator, loose roll (2-1)
G1: He exhumes Griselbrand. I make a copy of it with Cavern of Illusion. We each draw 14 and trade Griselbrands. I draw garbage and he reanimates Tidespout Tyrant to bounce my board.
G2: I mull to 6 and make a T1 Vial into T2 Chalice on 1 and Force his Exhume but he has the Force backup and Griselbrand enters the battlefield with me hellbent. I topdeck Image(!), vial it in mid combat and he draws 14 trying to target it but fails. He scoops because I win on the swingback.
G3: I keep a hand of Swan Song, CC, Force, Vial, Karakas, Cavern, Island. He has a weak T1 of Careful Study with no creatures to discard. We play draw-go a lot because I want to have Swan Song + Force up and mana to plough trough Daze. He eventually goes for Entomb on Tyrant + Exhume and I Swan Song it. With 6 lands and a pair of Vials in play, I make Chalice on 2 (stops Exhume and lets me play Cage if I draw it). I eventually find Cage and mount an offensive of CC, Silvergil, Lord vs Swan. At 5, he is forced to Decay the Lord to not die. I proceed to draw 5 lands in a row but his situation is bad enough that I still end up on top (he has to deal with Chalice AND Cage if he wants to Exhume/Animate something-- Reanimate doesn't play anymore because of his low life total.)
This 2-2 was good enough for 40 points at the prize wall and I opted for Thoughtknot Seer over a Mirrodin Besieged booster.
Clique's potential inclusion in my Legacy Merfolk deck was just an additional motivator for me for adding Karakas in the side, not to mention Umezawa's Jitte (already in the main) for some aerial beatdown.
Believe it or not I once won a game against MUD where he went all in with Kuldotha Forgemaster for Platinum Emperion by hitting him 4 times with a Jitte wielding Clique to -8/-8 the robot.
The idea of running a highly-disruptive Merfolk deck with 2 Cliques, 4 Chalice, 4 Force of Will, 2 Daze and 2 Wasteland is just extremely appealing to me.
On the other hand, Spreading Seas is the absolute MVP in Modern right now and one of my all-time favourite cards. There are few things more rewarding than destroying a $1,500 deck with a single $0.15 card. The possibility of having a Spreading Seas on legs in the form of Tidal Warrior, with the obvious synergy it brings alongside Wasteland and the rest of my Merfolk is equally appealing.
Decisions, decisions... Will have to wait and see until I get my MTGO.
It used to be that Merfolk was a 4x Wasteland deck. That was before Deathrite Shaman and before True-Name Nemesis. Nowadays I think the mana denial plan is dubious. Running 2 Wastelands is not unreasonable if you expect things like MUD, 12 posts and lands (dat Glacial Chasm!).
Yeah, looking at your list, you are indeed armed to the teeth for that matchup!
Apparently people are! Cf post #4452 and #4454.
In BTL however, we generally don't want to fetch for Mountains early because we want to be able to kill on 7 lands and this requires having 6/10 mountains left in our deck.
Prime Time on the other hand requires you to have at least 4 mountains when he comes down, so that you get a return on investment when he finally attacks.
In that sense, he's kind of a nombo with the main plan, which is to scapeshift on 7 lands.
There are however 3 things that bug me with this list:
(1) Do you really need Damnation AND Anger main? I don't believe so and looking at lists on mtgtop8, we see that the consensus is that Damnation should be maindeck with Anger in the side. This is because the metagame is not populated by lots of fast aggro decks at the moment.
(2) The mana in this deck is very tight. As sweet as it is to loot vs control decks, I don't think we can afford to have Loothouse as our 26th land. Plus, we already have a good matchup VS UW (the premier control deck).
(3) What is this sideboard spellskite for? Grixis Death's Shadow is a top 3 deck that we suck against. I would probably look to put a bullet for that matchup in that spot. Something like Chameleon Colossus perhaps.
I do.
There is a learning curve with the deck. It mostly has to do with lands, but also sideboarding can be tricky. I remember when I started playing, I could not win a match against Jund.
I don't think there is a big difference between black or white. White gives you Timely Reinforcements, which was great a while ago when there was a lot of Burn, Naya Zoo and 8-whack. Black gives you the bullet of Slaughter Games, which can be important if Ad Nauseam and the mirror are popular, etc.
It is true that RG Titanshift is one of if not the best matchup for BTL, but that doesn't mean BTL is "better" than RG. I personally never sleeved up RG because this style does not appeal to me, but on paper we can see that the deck has more redundancy than BTL in its win conditions. This makes it not as weak to a Thoughtseize for instance. The fact that virtually no one plays BTL at competitive event while RG is one of the top 3 most popular decks is a testament to the general opinion that RG is the superior deck, and they are probably right unfortunately.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my question but your answer is so technical that I'm not even sure if you're saying I'm right or wrong.
I guess I'm wrong cuz you didn't adress the other scenarios I mention. If so then are you suggesting that I can just go about my buisness and 5 turns later go "by the way, I have 2 counters on this Jitte. Kill your guy." (Assuming no game action requiring me to acknowledge the presence of counters on the Jitte occured.)??
So, I know that for instance if Allen attack with Noble Hierarch, passes priority, and his opponent declines to block, then Allen can say "take 1" and this is not considered a missed trigger.
The rule of thumb being "Allen can neglect any mention of the Exalted trigger until it becomes relevant that this trigger did go on the stack and resolved."
Of course, with triggers that target, you need to point them out as they go on the stack, otherwise, they are missed.
What about counters? If I attack with a creature wielding an Umezawa's Jitte and this creature deals combat damage. I don't have to explicitely say that the Jitte triggers in the "Damage Step", but I can say "move to end of combat?" and if opponent passe priority, then I can put the counters on the Jitte before we enter the "end of combat" phase. On the other hand, if I say "move to second main phase?" and opponent agrees, then I will have missed the Jitte trigger.
Is this correct?
In the absence of Chalice, the mana denial plan with Stifle is interresting. I am off of Wasteland entirely at the moment but I remember when I was playing 2 (as an out to Glacial Chasm and what not), I always regretted the times when I used Wasteland as a mean to mana screw my opponent because it usually ended up screwing me more than my opponent.
For instance: make land drop #4, waste their dual or whatever, then they waste my Cavern/Mutavault and I all of a sudden I can't cast this topdecked TNN/Clique.
Between this kind of scenario and the fact that we sometimes want to hardcast Force and Silvergils, I found Wasteland very underwhelming in our deck.
But that being said, I always wondered if a more dedicated mana denial build could work. So yea, I'm definitely interested in reading more reports from you DickWatson.
Also, have you considered playing some Warping Wails in your 75? They are great at killing Deathrite Shamans among other things.
I still like the idea of the 75, but I definitely need more practice with the deck, and especially against more archetypes to make any kind of informed conclusion.
It's gonna take time since I don't play a lot (I have 2 young kids) but I'll report back eventually. I did explode another BR Reanimator last night on XMage though
The TO was Game Keeper, which is a store I actively try to avoid. I did enjoy the high level of competition at the event though, so I'm glad I went.
Mostly thought I want to get your thoughts on this bizzarre sideboard that I decided to try out. The list that I registered at the 40$ GP side-event is
4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Cursecatcher
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Grafdigger's Cage
4 Pithing Needle
4 Tidebinder Mage
1 Echoing Truth
1 Swan Song
1 Karakas
Remarks on the build:
This idea for 4 Needles in the board came about when I was trying to make a sideboard to reliably deal with Marit Lage. I also wanted something faster than Relic to handle the hyper fast grave-based combo decks like BR Reanimator but more versatile than Faerie Macabre. I think Cage is the most powerful option and I think we need at least 4 grave hate to reliably beat these decks. Without Relic to handle the green creatures, I added 4 Tidebinder.
I didn't get much testing done before the event, playing mostly against combo decks on XMage but I beat them all while still beating the fair blue decks, which is a good sign since this is what this SB is designed to do.
One thing is certain though; I don't think I've ever had a SB that had a better shot against Elves! I'm anxious to test the matchup and see if 4 Cage, 4 Needle, 4 Tidebinder, 4 Chalice is enough! The SB plan I envision is +4 Cage, +4 Tidebinder Mage, +4 Needle, +1 Swan Song, -4 Vial, -4 CC, -3 Daze, -2 Phantasmal Image.
Flooding the board with Needles also sounds interesting against D&T.
I also wanted to give Daze a shot as more than a 1-of. It was really poor against Miracles so perhaps it is better now. Additionally, with 4 Tidebinder Mages, Daze gets theoretically better against the DRS decks.
The tournament report:
I took some notes about the matches I played:
M1: 4c Delver, win roll (2-1)
G1: I keep a hand with Island, Cavern, Chalice, x,x,x,x. My T2 Chalice gets Forced and my Cavern gets wasted. I never drew another land.
SB: -4 Force, +1 Echoing Truth, +3 Tidebinder
G2: He has the T1 Delver but Chalice resolves. T3 TNN and T4 double lord is met with Deluge, but I have TNN + Lord backup to end the game 2 attack steps later.
SB: +4 Force (stupid Deluge), -2 Daze, -2 Tidebinder
G3 again sees Chalice on 1 resolves but I don't have much else going on so I a Force a Young Pyro. Another one hits the table and my opponent starts firing 1 drops into Chalice to make tokens and is able to get me down to 9 with the tokens while I only draw lands and x/1's. Fortuitously, I find Echoing Truth to wipe the tokens and get on the beatdown plan. Opponent takes the trade of Young Pyro for Silvergil and finds an Angler. I counter with a TNN and a Lord (at last!) which somehow doesn't get decayed and I win.
M2: Pox, loose roll (0-2)
G1: I mull to 6. Very close game. I spare you the details but I ended up at 2 life with 2 Silvergils vs him at 6 life with a Bloodghast (can't block) and a summoning sick DRS (treatening to win the game next turn). With a Vial on 2, I swing with the 2 Silvergils. He realizes that if I topdecked a lord and he doesn't block, then I win. He thinks a lot, picks up my grave, counts 3 Lords. 'No blocks' :(. At least I made him sweat by activating Vial before scooping.
SB: -4 Chalice, -3 Force, +4 Tidebinder, +3 Needle
G2: I get rolled, basically. I mull to 6, he plays Thoughtseize into DRS and I choose to name Liliana of the Veil with my Needle because (a) I have 2 other Needles and 4 Tidebinders in the deck to deal with DRS (b) DRS is not too scary right now while Liliana next turn ends the game on the spot. I still think this is correct but my opponent thinks I should have named DRS.
M3: Food Chain, loose roll (1-2)
G1: He makes a T1 DRS and cantrips twice before my T2 Chalice resolves. He then Manipulate Fate and I Clique his draw step hoping to snag a Food Chain. Instead I see Manipulate Fate, Griffin, DRS, land, land. I let him keep it. On his next turn, I Force a Sylvan Library (I think pitching TNN) because having islandwalk is going to be key in wining this game and I don't want him to start drawing Decays and stuff. He ended up drawing Force, Force, Force and countering every one of my lords while making a 3/3 flyer every turn.
SB: -1 Jitte, -4 Chalice, +1 Echoing Truth, +1 Swan Song, +3 Tidebinder. IDK if this is correct. I think Chalice > Tidebinder here.
G2: I have a very fast hand where I get him to 6 on T4 with a board of CC + 2x Lord + 2x Muta so even his Deluge can't save him.
G3: I keep a hand of Cavern, Vial, Vial, E Truth, Clique, TNN, CC. He fires a T2 Hymn which nabs E Truth + Clique. T3 he has EE to clean up my Vials (and I even think it a good idea to Vial in my CC in response to EE activation! ?!?) I miss a couple land drops and Griffins end up burrying me.
M4: UB Reanimator, loose roll (2-1)
G1: He exhumes Griselbrand. I make a copy of it with Cavern of Illusion. We each draw 14 and trade Griselbrands. I draw garbage and he reanimates Tidespout Tyrant to bounce my board.
SB: +4 Cage, +1 E Truth, +1 Swan Song, +1 Karakas, -4 TNN, -1 Jitte, -2 Clique
G2: I mull to 6 and make a T1 Vial into T2 Chalice on 1 and Force his Exhume but he has the Force backup and Griselbrand enters the battlefield with me hellbent. I topdeck Image(!), vial it in mid combat and he draws 14 trying to target it but fails. He scoops because I win on the swingback.
G3: I keep a hand of Swan Song, CC, Force, Vial, Karakas, Cavern, Island. He has a weak T1 of Careful Study with no creatures to discard. We play draw-go a lot because I want to have Swan Song + Force up and mana to plough trough Daze. He eventually goes for Entomb on Tyrant + Exhume and I Swan Song it. With 6 lands and a pair of Vials in play, I make Chalice on 2 (stops Exhume and lets me play Cage if I draw it). I eventually find Cage and mount an offensive of CC, Silvergil, Lord vs Swan. At 5, he is forced to Decay the Lord to not die. I proceed to draw 5 lands in a row but his situation is bad enough that I still end up on top (he has to deal with Chalice AND Cage if he wants to Exhume/Animate something-- Reanimate doesn't play anymore because of his low life total.)
This 2-2 was good enough for 40 points at the prize wall and I opted for Thoughtknot Seer over a Mirrodin Besieged booster.
Believe it or not I once won a game against MUD where he went all in with Kuldotha Forgemaster for Platinum Emperion by hitting him 4 times with a Jitte wielding Clique to -8/-8 the robot.
It used to be that Merfolk was a 4x Wasteland deck. That was before Deathrite Shaman and before True-Name Nemesis. Nowadays I think the mana denial plan is dubious. Running 2 Wastelands is not unreasonable if you expect things like MUD, 12 posts and lands (dat Glacial Chasm!).