I think I may be going out on a total tangent/MTG Christmas land here (regardless of what the Devs have said or may say) I seriously believe the demigods will be in or around the 2-4 drop slot and will be at a minimum of 2 Hybrid mana in their respective colors - also most likely Rare and Legendary - given that BoG and JiN are both small blocks, though I could be wrong on their rarity and they comprise the majority of the mythics in their respective sets.
Again, I would appreciate any credit here if I am stating/speculating about ground breaking things,
Green/Red is Xenagos. There's art of him as a God. Yes, he's a God Planeswalker.
LMAO, Seriously I hit the refresh button on my browser just as i was about to post the exact same thing!
Awesome quick response, Xenagos is the Red/Green Demi God.
This leads me to believe we will get the following;
Born of the Gods - 5-6 Demigods
Journey into Nyx - 3-4 Demigods
Further speculation - I believe that since Ashiok was in Theros we wont see Phenax until Journey into Nyx for sure - just to keep all the formats in flux.
Even further speculation - We get a Dak Fayden in Born of the Gods and we also get a Green/White PW in Journey into Nyx (possibly a centaur) - I also believe we will get Mogis, Ephara, Keranos, Pharika, and Karametra in Born of the Gods, but we wont get their respective lands. Which means we get the remainder in Journey to Nyx.
From what we can tell from Flavor Text and Card Names in Theros, I have come to following conclusion regarding the Lesser/Demi Gods....
I am predicting Dual Color Gods, just like the Ravnica Guilds - but each god will either be an artistic depiction of a specific creature type in Theros or will be a creature type in their actual types. This is what I have come to as follows;
*Everything with a * next to it I believe to be very accurate.
Kruphix - Green/Blue - Type = Dryad?
Iroas - White/Red - Type = Human/Ox?
Karametra - Green/White - Type = Centaur*
Mogis - Red/Black - Type = Minotaur*
Ephara - Blue/White - Type = Sphinx*
Keranos - Blue/Red - Type = Elemental/Chimera?
Pharika - Black/Green - Type = Gorgon*
Athreos - White/Black - Type = Horse/Skeleton/Griffin?
Phenax - Blue/Black - Type = Horror/Nightmare/Shade/Siren?
_______ - Green/Red - Type = Satyr* (No Name that I have found)
Please let me know what y'all think.
Also I would greatly appreciate any credit for posting this so early in the Theros Block. Thanks much!
Choice, I believe, largely depends on the expected speed of the format. If a format is geared more towards midrange/control UB is the sounder choice. If the format happens to be rife with fast aggro decks packing some amount of burn UW becomes better. Kind of like this, though this is just a rough estimate:
UB Control > UW Control > fast aggro > UB control
Of course, format speed is not something that is a given so while one type of control might be the correct choice at one time it doesn't mean that it will be the correct choice all the time.
I don't really think that splashing a third colour in a control deck will be all that easy. While scrying is nice, those kinds of decks would take checklands any day of the week.
Even if those kinds of mana bases were stable, at this point Esper is probably the go to tri-colour mana base since it has two scrylands printed in this set, one of which taps for blue which is incredibly important.
However, in the face of a new format, it pays for a control deck to minimize it's liabilities. Sticking to a two colour list helps you not get colour screwed and take significantly less damage from your mana sources.
I completely agree Drek!
The format is defined by the cards played, the meta defines where the players want to go. Its this reason that Rogue decks "sometimes" turn into staples. Everything is in flux when a new set is released and an entire block is sent to the wayside for Standard.
These cards aren't just stronger win conditions either, they're in many cases harder to answer and offer and immediate - and unconditional - board advantage. In fact they're both helping you stabilize and acting like a strong win condition.
That Ashiok works as a win condition against a goldfishing opponent, or when you're perfectly able to protect him, is also completely irrelevant. Almost any card will win the game for you under such circumstances, and frequently much faster than Ashiok.
Good cards can protect Ashiok, granted. That doesn't mean Ashiok is a good card however.
I'm certainly not trying to discourage anyone from trying to make UB work in the new meta. Go for it!
I'm just saying that to me black looks significantly weaker than white for the post-rotation control decks, if forced to choose between the two.
Luckily it should still be easy enough to splash for most of the reasons to run black in an Esper build.
I completely agree with you in regards to being a spell, subject to removal, not tapping for mana, sorcery speed etc.
But I wont agree not working in multiples, with new PW rules, you can most certainly +2 / -x / Ult then drop another.
IMHO 3CMC for Pseudo 5 Lifegain AND exile top 3 is very formidable.
And from as much as I can read from you quoting me, you have failed to realize the fact that he belongs in a Counter Spell shell, therefore board impact is irrelevant, as long as you can drop him and he sticks - 3CMC for 3 in exile is card advantage IMHO.
Win- Cons aside - in a counter-spell deck focused on milling your opponent, Ashiok is king with any Jace.
The format is obviously slowed to the point of Turn 3+ board states. It just so happens, control is primed for this type of format. Please do not take offense, but the new current standard (Theros Only) is beginning to show signs that people need to reconsider the Aggro based Bias towards a cards quality.
In summary, I say again- 3CMC for 3 Exile is Card Advantage. Anything thereafter makes for a "good" card.
Has anyone considered Ashiok in a counter-spell deck, He has seriously shown clear potential in testing.
Ashiok's main advantages that I have seen are in such a deck heavy in counter spells, attributing to the mill effect. Ashiok is everything Nephalia Drownyard was, but better.
Ashiok doesn't need to defend itself because, as others have stated, he shouldn't be played on a developed board state obviously. So I began to ask myself how to drop Ashiok without being Esper? The answer was clear, dont allow a developed board state, which lead me to counter spells.
In the proper UB Build, Ashiok is able to shine in the following ways:
1) Ashiok doesn't just mill - he exiles therefore excels against Scavenging Ooze and Reanimator Decks versus cards that mill.
2) Ashiok mills to exile whereas Nephalia DY mills to GY - again exile vs gy, but FREE
3)Ashiok IS a win-con - He is a Win-Con because he has the ability to steal Win-Cons
4) Ashiok doesn't need to defend himself like other PW - this is because he should be ran in a Counter Spell Deck
5) Ashiok pairs well with Jace AOT against aggro, and with Jace MA vs control
6) Counter Magic and Removal are proper combinations for Ashiok, both of which can be found in UB. Devour Flesh is 100% better then and type of targeted removal - why? because their life total doesn't matter, because he belongs in a Counter/Mill deck
7) Scry will be a thing, as others have stated - Ashiok or the idea of him being played can greatly influence a players Scry choices. Not to mention, the highest scry goes is to 3, which i see as quite convenient. Also Opponents Scrying + Ashiok + Mind Grind = Very interesting plays.
These are just some ideas that I have found Ashiok to be useful in. I am currently testing a deck with these ideas and it has been doing very well. When I have an Official Build that I feel is worthy of T2 Standard Play, I will post it.
As of this point, I have dubbed it UB Counter Mill.
Again, I would appreciate any credit here if I am stating/speculating about ground breaking things,
LMAO, Seriously I hit the refresh button on my browser just as i was about to post the exact same thing!
Awesome quick response, Xenagos is the Red/Green Demi God.
This leads me to believe we will get the following;
Born of the Gods - 5-6 Demigods
Journey into Nyx - 3-4 Demigods
Further speculation - I believe that since Ashiok was in Theros we wont see Phenax until Journey into Nyx for sure - just to keep all the formats in flux.
Even further speculation - We get a Dak Fayden in Born of the Gods and we also get a Green/White PW in Journey into Nyx (possibly a centaur) - I also believe we will get Mogis, Ephara, Keranos, Pharika, and Karametra in Born of the Gods, but we wont get their respective lands. Which means we get the remainder in Journey to Nyx.
Anyone care to add to my speculation?
I am predicting Dual Color Gods, just like the Ravnica Guilds - but each god will either be an artistic depiction of a specific creature type in Theros or will be a creature type in their actual types. This is what I have come to as follows;
*Everything with a * next to it I believe to be very accurate.
Kruphix - Green/Blue - Type = Dryad?
Iroas - White/Red - Type = Human/Ox?
Karametra - Green/White - Type = Centaur*
Mogis - Red/Black - Type = Minotaur*
Ephara - Blue/White - Type = Sphinx*
Keranos - Blue/Red - Type = Elemental/Chimera?
Pharika - Black/Green - Type = Gorgon*
Athreos - White/Black - Type = Horse/Skeleton/Griffin?
Phenax - Blue/Black - Type = Horror/Nightmare/Shade/Siren?
_______ - Green/Red - Type = Satyr* (No Name that I have found)
Please let me know what y'all think.
Also I would greatly appreciate any credit for posting this so early in the Theros Block. Thanks much!
I completely agree Drek!
The format is defined by the cards played, the meta defines where the players want to go. Its this reason that Rogue decks "sometimes" turn into staples. Everything is in flux when a new set is released and an entire block is sent to the wayside for Standard.
I completely agree with you in regards to being a spell, subject to removal, not tapping for mana, sorcery speed etc.
But I wont agree not working in multiples, with new PW rules, you can most certainly +2 / -x / Ult then drop another.
IMHO 3CMC for Pseudo 5 Lifegain AND exile top 3 is very formidable.
And from as much as I can read from you quoting me, you have failed to realize the fact that he belongs in a Counter Spell shell, therefore board impact is irrelevant, as long as you can drop him and he sticks - 3CMC for 3 in exile is card advantage IMHO.
Win- Cons aside - in a counter-spell deck focused on milling your opponent, Ashiok is king with any Jace.
The format is obviously slowed to the point of Turn 3+ board states. It just so happens, control is primed for this type of format. Please do not take offense, but the new current standard (Theros Only) is beginning to show signs that people need to reconsider the Aggro based Bias towards a cards quality.
In summary, I say again- 3CMC for 3 Exile is Card Advantage. Anything thereafter makes for a "good" card.
Ashiok's main advantages that I have seen are in such a deck heavy in counter spells, attributing to the mill effect. Ashiok is everything Nephalia Drownyard was, but better.
Ashiok doesn't need to defend itself because, as others have stated, he shouldn't be played on a developed board state obviously. So I began to ask myself how to drop Ashiok without being Esper? The answer was clear, dont allow a developed board state, which lead me to counter spells.
In the proper UB Build, Ashiok is able to shine in the following ways:
1) Ashiok doesn't just mill - he exiles therefore excels against Scavenging Ooze and Reanimator Decks versus cards that mill.
2) Ashiok mills to exile whereas Nephalia DY mills to GY - again exile vs gy, but FREE
3)Ashiok IS a win-con - He is a Win-Con because he has the ability to steal Win-Cons
4) Ashiok doesn't need to defend himself like other PW - this is because he should be ran in a Counter Spell Deck
5) Ashiok pairs well with Jace AOT against aggro, and with Jace MA vs control
6) Counter Magic and Removal are proper combinations for Ashiok, both of which can be found in UB. Devour Flesh is 100% better then and type of targeted removal - why? because their life total doesn't matter, because he belongs in a Counter/Mill deck
7) Scry will be a thing, as others have stated - Ashiok or the idea of him being played can greatly influence a players Scry choices. Not to mention, the highest scry goes is to 3, which i see as quite convenient. Also Opponents Scrying + Ashiok + Mind Grind = Very interesting plays.
These are just some ideas that I have found Ashiok to be useful in. I am currently testing a deck with these ideas and it has been doing very well. When I have an Official Build that I feel is worthy of T2 Standard Play, I will post it.
As of this point, I have dubbed it UB Counter Mill.